@Pedro said:
1. I have played the game and was one folks who played it at launch. Your assumption to this fact is simply false. My point was very clear from the very beginning that I was directly referring to physical appearance. Please refer to Guild Wars 2 for a excellent example of usage of cultures and representation of said cultures.
Oh, I didn't know you played that infamous early version. If so, it's no wonder you have a bad impression of the game, haha. The fact is, as I mentioned earlier, the characters have become more and more diverse over the years. But if they still look the same to you, there is nothing more to say. Also, I'm not very familiar with GW2. How good does it get at representing culture?
2. It is pretty clear that you are not educated on the topic and lack the willingness to understand even when the concepts are broken down to it's simplest form. You viewing a historically problematic practice as juvenile clearly shows you lack of understanding on the topic. There absolutely nothing that can be said to you until you have the knowledge and exposure to the topic at hand. Again, if you believe that using multiple cultural influences under the blanket of blonde hair blue eye people is harmless then you are simply ignorant. Please refer to the origins of the Legendary Elvis Presley music and backstory.
Well, the reason I called your argument “juvenile” is because you so hypocritically use what you call a "historically problematic" issue as a tool to criticize the FF series, which is completely unrelated. I’ll explain how you miss the point in the following discussion as responding to your arguments.
As for Elvis, of course I understand the history of "whitewashing" the rock music genre that has its origins in black music. But in all seriousness, are you really so stupid as to extend this problem to the naming of summons and monsters in the FF series as well?
I literally did not use the term but you are claiming that I am misusing it. 🤷🏽♀️ I will repeat in futility, taking cultural references and representing these cultures as blonde hair blue eye cultures is harmful.
The reason I mentioned "cultural appropriation" is because even though you don't use the term, you argue in that vein, though your argument is an even more poorly interpreted version. And you have not been able to answer what harm the FF series has done to anyone specifically and in what way, nor have you been able to provide any evidence of such harm.
They are not whitish, they are straight up white despite origins not being white.
The reason I dare to say "whitish" is that white-skinned FF series characters should not necessarily be equated with actual "whites" in the real world. They are not actual representations of Englishmen, Frenchmen, or Germans who share the culture and history of their respective countries, but fictional characters from a fantasy medieval Europe imagined by their Japanese creators. For example, Cloud of FF7 is indeed white-skinned, but he does not have the same cultural or historical background as a real-life white person. The same is basically true for other white-skinned characters. That's why I used the word "whitish" in context in response to your wild attempt to equate the two.
Nothing I have mentioned implied anything about exploitation. You are deflecting from the issue that has been made exceptionally clear. What does the population of Hindu got to do with the misrepresentation of their gods and culture?
If you say it is not exploitation, then fine. I only showed the number of Hindus to show that it is not.
Also, as with the "whitish" characters, the summons in the FF series are not necessarily the same as the actual gods. For example, FF's "Shiva" is not a copy of the actual Indian mythological god of destruction, "Siva." Though its name may allude to "Siva", it was completely reimagined as a Summon with the attribute of ice power (perhaps a play on the English word "shiver"), and its design is completely different.
Also, Hinduism does not exist in the FF world, so of course such religious references are not included in the lore at all. It should be called a parody or reference, not a misrepresentation. Again, tell me specifically how Hindus were harmed by this.
Since when has African mythology, egyptian and greek specifically became the common property of humanity? Are you seriously trying to say that these cultures belong to everyone? Just to be clear you are saying that the culture of the 54 African countries is the property of every human on the planet.🤔
The ancient myths can generally be considered as the historical heritage of mankind as a whole. Of course, they certainly belong to each culture in their origin. But there is no rule that says that one should not freely refer to them, except for exploitative purposes, as I just explained with the Native American example of "cultural appropriation".
But let's be specific here. Actually, there are not many references to African culutres in the FF series. Ninki Nanka and Kongomato, which you mentioned, are among the few examples. They are certainly believed to be imaginary creatures in parts of Africa. However, they are not objects of belief, nor do they have any significant cultural background.
Again, what harm is done to the natives of Africa by using their names for monsters in FF games? Who in Africa is complaining anyway? Tell me the specific "harm", not abstract arguments like "because white people used to exploit them, blah-blah-blah".
Your last paragraph is a parade of ignorance. The removing of people's identity from their culture and allocating these cultures as white origin is harmful. It is the reason that sentiments that people from the African continent have no culture, uncivilized. It is also the reason why so much of the culture from the 54 African countries has been stolen, exported and in some cases erased from the locals because of this false sentiment. This practice is not limited to the countries of Africa but extended to the Americas and to Asia. The more cultures of non white origin are passed off as white the more the white superiority sentiment is solidified because there is no reference pointing to the source and credit of these cultures are being falsely associated with folks who are not part of the culture in any shape or form.
Well, indeed, as you have so desperately tried to explain, the deprivation of Africa and Asia was done by Westerners. Yes, they colonized many of these countries and committed terrible depredations against their people, resources, and cultures. No one denies that.
But again, we should not equate the naming of monsters in FF with the completely unrelated evil of the cultural plundering of Africa and Asia by Westerners. The former is just a harmless video game; the latter is a major historical crime with real damage and victims.
Btw, speaking of Africa, do you know why there are as many as 54 countries? It is mainly the result of the arbitrary division and governance by Western colonizers in the 19th and early 20th centuries. There were never that many countries in Africa to begin with. I say this because you seem to be using "54 countries" as if it were a number that represents the cultural diversity of Africa without being aware of it.
Back to the topic and the "misrepresentation of culture" thing, do you really think that there are idiots in this world who think that just because they are summoned by a "white man" in a video game that the summoned beast is from the west? Or that there are enemies named after African mythology without reference that appear in a video game and think they belong to another culture? Why don't you just admit that you're just making up false "harms" to attack the FF series that you don't like?
But I cannot expect rational conclusions from someone who believes the following is equal to the scope of the issue at hand.
"By your logic, it would also be "harmful" for "blonde-haired, blue-eyed people" to play black music such as jazz, rock, and hip-hop that originated in black culture, right?"
Well, I gave that example about black music to show the emptiness of your argument. In fact you can't even answer that simple question properly because you know you are talking nonsense.
There is not much that can be discussed if you are not verse on the topic. Feel free to fallback on silly deflections and poorly though out counters. 🤷🏽♀️
Well, let's face it, Pedro. This is what happened. You were desperately looking for material to criticize the FF series for whatever reason. You found an argument somewhere on the Internet that white people in this game summon or fight gods and monsters from non-Western mythology, and that their origins are not mentioned.
You, or the forum where you found it, probably thought you could use this to problematize the game as having content that affirms the white man's dispossession of other cultures. So you desperately talk about the exploitation of Africa/Asia by the West.
But let's be real, this has nothing to do with the FF series directly, and you yourself know very well that neither Indians nor Africans are complaining about this game, because the only ones complaining are you and some FF haters who made up the problem themselves.
How juvenile and hypocritical.
I love the "calm down" strategy, it is so textbook for folks like you to use it.😎
Again, you should calm down, Pedro, haha.
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