Very interesting article on Edge review scores

Im pretty sure EDGE give the scores they do for the lulz.

Really, why do any of you care? Go to other sources for your reviews.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

A bias, when used in the context that HE USED it, means a prejudice.

The other context it could be used would be for me to say that "the week that the games got reviewed on introduces a bias to his data set."

It implies nothing relating to EDGE or their integrity as a publication. So either he has proven absolutely NOTHING about EDGE(which is what I am saying to begin with), or he is ignoring statistically significant variables which thereby invalidates any conclusions that he came to with his data set.

ogvampire

i love how logic and 'facts' are such fickle things in sw

once again, IF edge was biased towards the ps3, then how did they score several ps3 games higher than the metacritic average?

i would love to know why this 'fact' is ignored

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] The control subject was the same for both platforms, and the PS3 was criminally underrated by EDGE. What's to debate? Whether or net MC is flawed, the same control variable was used for both comparisons. It is valid.Hahadouken

the 360 was underrated too... guess theyre biased towards the 360 as well then

yup... they must have been really harsh when they gave those 3 ps3 exclusives a '10' rating... right?

This doesn't deal with their writing. This deals purely with the review scores. They are showing a clear pattern of bias (and over a VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME). The only way to argue with this is to show some stats that contradict it. And please, stop with the 'isn't a fanboy' BS. I could easily flip that statement and it would have exactly the same weight, none. Show some evidence to back up your position for pity sakes. DerekLoffin

I will say this. There is a correlation between games being on the PS3 and them getting a lower score from EDGE. The data presented does not prove anything beyond a correlation. No matter how much you try to insist that it does, it simply does not. That is a FACT. What the REAL cause for the correlation is, I do not know. How knows, maybe there is some sort of prejudice against the PS3. There is however, no significant proof of this. End of story.

And if you want to simply argue that there is a correlation, fine. But that WASN'T the intent of the article. The article was intending to prove an overt agenda on the part of EDGE to rate PS3 games lower. And the simple fact remains that the data does not support such a conclusion.

Stats don't lie. Hahadouken

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

Have you ever actually bothered to READ EDGE? Or are you basing everything you say on scores that EDGE really doesn't care about(they tried to stop giving games scores altogether).

EDGE is not biased. Anyone who isn't a fanboy that has actually bothered to read the magazine can tell you this. But whatever... I give up. You guys can keep on with your conspiracy theories and put on your tinfoil hats, but I can't even begin to express how poorly founded most of your assumptions are.

KingsMessenger

CONCLUSIONS MADE BASED ON STATISTICS ARE NOT VALID UNLESS YOU CAN ISOLATE THE VARIABLES AND PROVE A DIRECT CAUSATION. THESE STATISTICS DO NOT DO THAT.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] This doesn't deal with their writing. This deals purely with the review scores. They are showing a clear pattern of bias (and over a VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME). The only way to argue with this is to show some stats that contradict it. And please, stop with the 'isn't a fanboy' BS. I could easily flip that statement and it would have exactly the same weight, none. Show some evidence to back up your position for pity sakes. KingsMessenger

I will say this. There is a correlation between games being on the PS3 and them getting a lower score from EDGE. The data presented does not prove anything beyond a correlation. No matter how much you try to insist that it does, it simply does not. That is a FACT. What the REAL cause for the correlation is, I do not know. How knows, maybe there is some sort of prejudice against the PS3. There is however, no significant proof of this. End of story.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

the 360 was underrated too... guess theyre biased towards the 360 as well then

ogvampire

yup... they must have been really harsh when they gave those 3 ps3 exclusives a '10' rating... right?

Your anecdotal offerings < research over a broad period of time encompassing many games and many sources.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] You can keep claiming this, but it won't make it true, because that wasn't what he stated. Besides, it doesn't matter the cause. The bias is self evident to anyone reading here. You can try and deny it all you want but until you come up with some actual facts to deny with, you're not convincing anyone (probably not even yourself).DerekLoffin

i love how logic and 'facts' are such fickle things in sw

once again, IF edge was biased towards the ps3, then how did they score several ps3 games higher than the metacritic average?

i would love to know why this 'fact' is ignored

yes... and there isnt a pattern since they rated more than a couple ps3 exclusives HIGHER than the metacritic average

once again, this comparison does NOT work with edge since they score things differently than EVERY OTHER SITE on metacritic... why is that so hard for people to understand?

if youre gonna say edge is biased cause they score ps3 games lower than metacritic, then you could say they are biased towards the 360 for doing the same thing

[QUOTE="tok1879"] And all of a sudden, you're starting to make sense. But you still failed with your CO2 example as it seemed to me like you were presenting a straw argument. And your excuse for the day they receive review copies doesn't make much sense either. That said, i could help you out with a possible explanation. Perhaps they don't enjoy the ps3 controller as much as they do that of the 360 resulting in a less enjoyable experience. Or maybe the XMB interface is too cluttered for them. I agree though that i wouldn't have come to that conclusion that directly. But the data is there, and it shows that they score ps3 games much less than they do for 360 games on average. And unless you can come up with how the data is flawed, how else can one prove the bias without having them confess to it?KingsMessenger

You can't prove a bias. Not just because it doesn't exists. But also because there is no way to isolate it within any data set.

Feel free to continue with your conspiracy theories, but I suggest you actually try to read their magazine and then come back and tell me it is biased.

WHAT WOULD PROVE THIS CAUSATION? IF WE LITERALLY OPENED UP THEIR BRAINS AND DISSECTED THEIR THOUGHTS, IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO PROVE A CAUSATION? P.S. STOP YELLING, IT DOESN'T MAKE YOUR POINT ANY MORE RELEVANT.Hahadouken

Honestly, it would be possible to create a more reliable data set if he had data on the magazine cycle, the date review copies were sent, the play conditions that each game was reviewed under, personal stress factors for each of the reviews graphed over a period of time. And then, if those factors were isolated and then the data was examined, THEN it would be a far more valid correlation. Enough to infact come to the conclusion that it is highly likely that the results are causal. But such a data set is not feasible or practical to create for such a small overall data set... To much data would have to be thrown out to normalize everything.

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="tok1879"] And all of a sudden, you're starting to make sense. But you still failed with your CO2 example as it seemed to me like you were presenting a straw argument. And your excuse for the day they receive review copies doesn't make much sense either. That said, i could help you out with a possible explanation. Perhaps they don't enjoy the ps3 controller as much as they do that of the 360 resulting in a less enjoyable experience. Or maybe the XMB interface is too cluttered for them. I agree though that i wouldn't have come to that conclusion that directly. But the data is there, and it shows that they score ps3 games much less than they do for 360 games on average. And unless you can come up with how the data is flawed, how else can one prove the bias without having them confess to it?tok1879

You can't prove a bias. Not just because it doesn't exists. But also because there is no way to isolate it within any data set.

Feel free to continue with your conspiracy theories, but I suggest you actually try to read their magazine and then come back and tell me it is biased.

I am relatively certain. Not completely certain, but honestly... Do you REALLY think that a bunch of veteran journalists who have been doing this for decades would REALLY have an overt bias against a particular console? REALLY? Care to explain how this is plausible or logical?

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

i love how logic and 'facts' are such fickle things in sw

once again, IF edge was biased towards the ps3, then how did they score several ps3 games higher than the metacritic average?

i would love to know why this 'fact' is ignored

ogvampire

yes... and there isnt a pattern since they rated more than a couple ps3 exclusives HIGHER than the metacritic average

once again, this comparison does NOT work with edge since they score things differently than EVERY OTHER SITE on metacritic... why is that so hard for people to understand?

if youre gonna say edge is biased cause they score ps3 games lower than metacritic, then you could say they are biased towards the 360 for doing the same thing

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]The data in the article is correct, yes, but data is still just data. Honestly, I think it's just a coincidence. Edge have praised Ps3 plenty, not just in the review section either.88mphSlayer

obviously

........

You know that people who write features are completely different from the review crew of them right? But regardless, cover stories are meant to sell the magazine.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] Was it underrated to the same degree as the PS3? No, and that's the point. It's not whether they score lower in general (this is known), but whether they favor a particular platform. We have no way of seeing into their minds, but based on the evidence we have, yes, they are harsher on PS3 games than 360 games. Hahadouken

yup... they must have been really harsh when they gave those 3 ps3 exclusives a '10' rating... right?

Your anecdotal offerings < research over a broad period of time encompassing many games and many sources.

yeah, cause there is nothing more scientific and easily proven than opinions :| are you cereal?

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] WHAT WOULD PROVE THIS CAUSATION? IF WE LITERALLY OPENED UP THEIR BRAINS AND DISSECTED THEIR THOUGHTS, IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO PROVE A CAUSATION? P.S. STOP YELLING, IT DOESN'T MAKE YOUR POINT ANY MORE RELEVANT.KingsMessenger

Honestly, it would be possible to create a more reliable data set if he had data on the magazine cycle, the date review copies were sent, the play conditions that each game was reviewed under, personal stress factors for each of the reviews graphed over a period of time. And then, if those factors were isolated and then the data was examined, THEN it would be a far more valid correlation. Enough to infact come to the conclusion that it is highly likely that the results are causal. But such a data set is not feasible or practical to create for such a small overall data set... To much data would have to be thrown out to normalize everything.

[QUOTE="tok1879"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

You can't prove a bias. Not just because it doesn't exists. But also because there is no way to isolate it within any data set.

Feel free to continue with your conspiracy theories, but I suggest you actually try to read their magazine and then come back and tell me it is biased.

KingsMessenger

I am relatively certain. Not completely certain, but honestly... Do you REALLY think that a bunch of veteran journalists who have been doing this for decades would REALLY have an overt bias against a particular console? REALLY? Care to explain how this is plausible or logical?

all you can do is analyze the data you have.Hahadouken

Which is incomplete, insufficient, and is being comparared to different control subjects.

Not enough to make any solid judgement.

I'm sure that Edge isn't a 100% objective news source. I have yet to find any media outlet that is. However, I highly doubt that Edge is "out to get Sony". Edge is a western publication. They may have a subconscious preference for more western centered games. It's easier to like something when you understand the underlying concepts, pop culture references, etc. better.

"not just because it doesn't exists..." You seem to be so sure. Is it like a gut feeling or something? Or do you work at Edge? Do you understand that even if according to you, his premise was not justification enough for his conclusion, that it is still in the realm of possibility that Edge actually might be bias against the ps3 in their reviews? So what is reading the magazine going to do? Is it going to change the way I see the scores handed out to ps3 games? tok1879

I am relatively certain. Not completely certain, but honestly... Do you REALLY think that a bunch of veteran journalists who have been doing this for decades would REALLY have an overt bias against a particular console? REALLY? Care to explain how this is plausible or logical?

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yup... they must have been really harsh when they gave those 3 ps3 exclusives a '10' rating... right?

ogvampire

Your anecdotal offerings < research over a broad period of time encompassing many games and many sources.

yeah, cause there is nothing more scientific and easily proven than opinions :| are you cereal?

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

i love how logic and 'facts' are such fickle things in sw

once again, IF edge was biased towards the ps3, then how did they score several ps3 games higher than the metacritic average?

i would love to know why this 'fact' is ignored

ogvampire

yes... and there isnt a pattern since they rated more than a couple ps3 exclusives HIGHER than the metacritic average

once again, this comparison does NOT work with edge since they score things differently than EVERY OTHER SITE on metacritic... why is that so hard for people to understand?

if youre gonna say edge is biased cause they score ps3 games lower than metacritic, then you could say they are biased towards the 360 for doing the same thing

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] WHAT WOULD PROVE THIS CAUSATION? IF WE LITERALLY OPENED UP THEIR BRAINS AND DISSECTED THEIR THOUGHTS, IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO PROVE A CAUSATION? P.S. STOP YELLING, IT DOESN'T MAKE YOUR POINT ANY MORE RELEVANT.Hahadouken

Honestly, it would be possible to create a more reliable data set if he had data on the magazine cycle, the date review copies were sent, the play conditions that each game was reviewed under, personal stress factors for each of the reviews graphed over a period of time. And then, if those factors were isolated and then the data was examined, THEN it would be a far more valid correlation. Enough to infact come to the conclusion that it is highly likely that the results are causal. But such a data set is not feasible or practical to create for such a small overall data set... To much data would have to be thrown out to normalize everything.

Yeah. But, to draw a conclusion from statistics like this, you NEED to isolate as many variables as possible. The fact that this leaves so many factors unaccounted for automatically weakens the validity of any conclusions made based on the data.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to go there. Journalism is not known for its stellar record of non-bias, or heck even its non-prejudice. At all levels, scientific, political, tv news, etc, there are all kinds of biases, due to market pressures, axes to grind, and numerous other causes. Being a journalist in no may makes you immune to bias or worse prejudice. Not saying that is the case here, but it is not a good defense in general.DerekLoffin

Journalism isn't immune to bias. However, gaming on the Xbox 360 is really not that different from gaming on the PS3. And trying to claim that EDGE would try to purposely rate one system's games lower than another system's games just doesn't make any sense. What motivation is there for such an action? Honestly?

How about analyising all the sources that metacritic uses and see if some of those sites artificially raise a score as they really are biased?blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] I'm pretty sure you don't want to go there. Journalism is not known for its stellar record of non-bias, or heck even its non-prejudice. At all levels, scientific, political, tv news, etc, there are all kinds of biases, due to market pressures, axes to grind, and numerous other causes. Being a journalist in no may makes you immune to bias or worse prejudice. Not saying that is the case here, but it is not a good defense in general.KingsMessenger

Journalism isn't immune to bias. However, gaming on the Xbox 360 is really not that different from gaming on the PS3. And trying to claim that EDGE would try to purposely rate one system's games lower than another system's games just doesn't make any sense. What motivation is there for such an action? Honestly?

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] How about analyising all the sources that metacritic uses and see if some of those sites artificially raise a score as they really are biased?DerekLoffin

[QUOTE="tok1879"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

You can't prove a bias. Not just because it doesn't exists. But also because there is no way to isolate it within any data set.

Feel free to continue with your conspiracy theories, but I suggest you actually try to read their magazine and then come back and tell me it is biased.

KingsMessenger

I am relatively certain. Not completely certain, but honestly... Do you REALLY think that a bunch of veteran journalists who have been doing this for decades would REALLY have an overt bias against a particular console? REALLY? Care to explain how this is plausible or logical?

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

From the article, it is implied to be a prejudice. He states that EDGE has "bias to give Xbox 360 exclusives higher scores and PS3 exclusives lower scores."

That implies a preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment, which is implies a prejudice.

KingsMessenger

A bias, when used in the context that HE USED it, means a prejudice.

The other context it could be used would be for me to say that "the week that the games got reviewed on introduces a bias to his data set."

It implies nothing relating to EDGE or their integrity as a publication. So either he has proven absolutely NOTHING about EDGE(which is what I am saying to begin with), or he is ignoring statistically significant variables which thereby invalidates any conclusions that he came to with his data set.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]The control subject was the same for both platforms, and the PS3 was criminally underrated by EDGE. What's to debate? Whether or net MC is flawed, the same control variable was used for both comparisons. It is valid.IronBass

If we want talk about validity, the very fact that we are talking about subjective scores make all kind of comparisons invalid, because of the beautiful "I have a different tastes".

Secondly, the sites that review 360 and PS3 exclusives are not the same.

PS3: The Official Magazine and PSFocusdid not review Halo ODST, did they?

So no, the control subject is not the same. The metascore for 360 exclusives is not calculated with the exact same sources as PS3 exclusives, making all comparisons flawed.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

Your anecdotal offerings < research over a broad period of time encompassing many games and many sources.

Hahadouken

yeah, cause there is nothing more scientific and easily proven than opinions :| are you cereal?

this 'research' is trying to use opinions to prove other opinions as 'biased'

this is further complicated by the fact that EDGE is being compared to sites that use a somewhat different scoring system

edge is just different... simple as that

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] I'm pretty sure you don't want to go there. Journalism is not known for its stellar record of non-bias, or heck even its non-prejudice. At all levels, scientific, political, tv news, etc, there are all kinds of biases, due to market pressures, axes to grind, and numerous other causes. Being a journalist in no may makes you immune to bias or worse prejudice. Not saying that is the case here, but it is not a good defense in general.KingsMessenger

Journalism isn't immune to bias. However, gaming on the Xbox 360 is really not that different from gaming on the PS3. And trying to claim that EDGE would try to purposely rate one system's games lower than another system's games just doesn't make any sense. What motivation is there for such an action? Honestly?

So by your definition participation in System Wars is flawed. Xalaten

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] I'm pretty sure you don't want to go there. Journalism is not known for its stellar record of non-bias, or heck even its non-prejudice. At all levels, scientific, political, tv news, etc, there are all kinds of biases, due to market pressures, axes to grind, and numerous other causes. Being a journalist in no may makes you immune to bias or worse prejudice. Not saying that is the case here, but it is not a good defense in general.DerekLoffin

Journalism isn't immune to bias. However, gaming on the Xbox 360 is really not that different from gaming on the PS3. And trying to claim that EDGE would try to purposely rate one system's games lower than another system's games just doesn't make any sense. What motivation is there for such an action? Honestly?

their fanbase is largely international and mainly composed of industry types like game developers, publishers, and other journalists, in addition to their fanbase of hardcore gamers

I don't believe it really skews towards one platform or another.

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] I'm pretty sure you don't want to go there. Journalism is not known for its stellar record of non-bias, or heck even its non-prejudice. At all levels, scientific, political, tv news, etc, there are all kinds of biases, due to market pressures, axes to grind, and numerous other causes. Being a journalist in no may makes you immune to bias or worse prejudice. Not saying that is the case here, but it is not a good defense in general.tok1879

Journalism isn't immune to bias. However, gaming on the Xbox 360 is really not that different from gaming on the PS3. And trying to claim that EDGE would try to purposely rate one system's games lower than another system's games just doesn't make any sense. What motivation is there for such an action? Honestly?

console gaming is console gaming. And despite what some fanboys think, there is really not much difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360. Both give similar experiences, and honestly I don't see how, outside of brand loyalty, fanboyism or a factor like experience on said platform, a person could specifically like one over the other. And EDGE has certainly not been nice to the Xbox 360 regarding its hardware issues, so it isn't like they are ignoring that.

Its so obvious Edge has something against the PS3. The data presented basically confirmed this.

[QUOTE="tok1879"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

You can't prove a bias. Not just because it doesn't exists. But also because there is no way to isolate it within any data set.

Feel free to continue with your conspiracy theories, but I suggest you actually try to read their magazine and then come back and tell me it is biased.

KingsMessenger

I am relatively certain. Not completely certain, but honestly... Do you REALLY think that a bunch of veteran journalists who have been doing this for decades would REALLY have an overt bias against a particular console? REALLY? Care to explain how this is plausible or logical?

Its so obvious Edge has something against the PS3. The data presented basically confirmed this.

W1NGMAN-

Its so obvious Edge has something against the PS3. The data presented basically confirmed this.

W1NGMAN-

are you kiddin?

i mean, just look at how much bias they against the Wii:

i mean look at that, not 1 stinkin' review for the Wii!

how pathetic

/for the lulz folks, just for the lulz

I think one thing that CAN be said is that someway, somehow, Edge reviewers are out of touch with the majority of other reviewers.Xalaten

well that would be an interesting point if that made any sense

reviewing isn't about doing what everybody else is doing, it's about giving the game sitting in front of you a score

LOL. Someone should do this for GS. I'd love to see it. wstfld