Anyone else deliberately go into MS bashing threads just to see William scramble to their defense with desperate posting? I hope he is only trolling on here, some of the stuff is really sad and i'd hate to think he actually **** rides MS that much irl.
Valve: MS needs to be 'comfortable' in opening up Xbox Live
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Actually EA say so and MS allowed why else do you think EA kill their games when they want and they run their own servers.? Developers can push MS EA already did it,is simple it only took several versions of EA games been online on PS2 alone and not xbox to make MS reconsider and take EA seriously.[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="tempest91"]This is pretty much it. MS has had control of XBL from day 1, and they have built an awesome online experience from it. Why would they all of the sudden open it up to developer control because Gabe Newell says so?tempest91
I really don't know what you are saying about EA, but starting this gen, MS has had a firm control on XBL and it has worked well for them. To give up control is really not going to happen at this point. Especially to Valve, who Microsoft has been in Direct competition with when it comes to game services (GFWL). Yes they failed with it, and that is all the more reason to reject this sentiment of judgement from valve. MS is fine without them.
EA runs everything through there own servers, they don't go through MS. so EA now closes last years games to push people onto newer games, which is something MS wanted to not happen with Xbox Live.
GFWL failed mostly because it didn't offer anything. like they shouldn't force you to pay twice for games. thats where they failed
http://www.xboxgaming.co.za/xbl-marketplace-free?q=&category=3&avatartype=®ion=
there is a ton of free content, I don't know how Valve isn't able to get free content, when its been proving time and time again that you can get free content.
ya it probably also has to do with Steam that MS doesn't want to give access. Sony doesn't care because nothing is really unified
[QUOTE="tempest91"]
[QUOTE="tormentos"]
Actually EA say so and MS allowed why else do you think EA kill their games when they want and they run their own servers.? Developers can push MS EA already did it,is simple it only took several versions of EA games been online on PS2 alone and not xbox to make MS reconsider and take EA seriously.gamer-adam1
I really don't know what you are saying about EA, but starting this gen, MS has had a firm control on XBL and it has worked well for them. To give up control is really not going to happen at this point. Especially to Valve, who Microsoft has been in Direct competition with when it comes to game services (GFWL). Yes they failed with it, and that is all the more reason to reject this sentiment of judgement from valve. MS is fine without them.
EA runs everything through there own servers, they don't go through MS. so EA now closes last years games to push people onto newer games, which is something MS wanted to not happen with Xbox Live.
GFWL failed mostly because it didn't offer anything. like they shouldn't force you to pay twice for games. thats where they failed
http://www.xboxgaming.co.za/xbl-marketplace-free?q=&category=3&avatartype=®ion=
there is a ton of free content, I don't know how Valve isn't able to get free content, when its been proving time and time again that you can get free content.
ya it probably also has to do with Steam that MS doesn't want to give access. Sony doesn't care because nothing is really unified
You're exactly right. Sony can give valve what they want because they aren't unified, but I'm just curious why other people think that MS woud give them this sort of control when they don't give it to anyone else. It doesn't make sense. Valve is not a big enough player on consoles at the moment to push MS in any direction. They have nowhere near the influence on consoles right now that EA does.
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
[QUOTE="tempest91"]
I really don't know what you are saying about EA, but starting this gen, MS has had a firm control on XBL and it has worked well for them. To give up control is really not going to happen at this point. Especially to Valve, who Microsoft has been in Direct competition with when it comes to game services (GFWL). Yes they failed with it, and that is all the more reason to reject this sentiment of judgement from valve. MS is fine without them.
tempest91
EA runs everything through there own servers, they don't go through MS. so EA now closes last years games to push people onto newer games, which is something MS wanted to not happen with Xbox Live.
GFWL failed mostly because it didn't offer anything. like they shouldn't force you to pay twice for games. thats where they failed
http://www.xboxgaming.co.za/xbl-marketplace-free?q=&category=3&avatartype=®ion=
there is a ton of free content, I don't know how Valve isn't able to get free content, when its been proving time and time again that you can get free content.
ya it probably also has to do with Steam that MS doesn't want to give access. Sony doesn't care because nothing is really unified
You're exactly right. Sony can give valve what they want because they aren't unified, but I'm just curious why other people think that MS woud give them this sort of control when they don't give it to anyone else. It doesn't make sense. Valve is not a big enough player on consoles at the moment to push MS in any direction. They have nowhere near the influence on consoles right now that EA does.
I think Valve just loves to have access to games 24.7 like TF2 is ALWAYS getting updates, which they could keep down to 2 or 3 big updates a year and no one could complain. I think Valve wants to be able to update at any time, and MS doesn't want that, which is a valid point, I don't need a game that isn't a mmo updating every few days.
also many companies have been able to convince MS to change something. but Xbox Live wouldn't be the same if it wasn't unified.
At the end of the day I think what's keepign Xbox Live to really flourish except from it's mandatory multiplayer fee is it's leashes on the platform. Open up to trustworthy developers and further the indie development more on your platformGamingcucumber
I think its more, calling anything online gaming related Xbox Live, but having you to repay for games so you can play the game on your moblie while away from the xbox.
if MS gave the option to play the arcade games full game free on other systems you own without repaying, would probably increase sales ALOT.....sadly this is what I thought would happen with xboxlive on the phone and GFWL.
[QUOTE="tempest91"]
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
EA runs everything through there own servers, they don't go through MS. so EA now closes last years games to push people onto newer games, which is something MS wanted to not happen with Xbox Live.
GFWL failed mostly because it didn't offer anything. like they shouldn't force you to pay twice for games. thats where they failed
http://www.xboxgaming.co.za/xbl-marketplace-free?q=&category=3&avatartype=®ion=
there is a ton of free content, I don't know how Valve isn't able to get free content, when its been proving time and time again that you can get free content.
ya it probably also has to do with Steam that MS doesn't want to give access. Sony doesn't care because nothing is really unified
gamer-adam1
You're exactly right. Sony can give valve what they want because they aren't unified, but I'm just curious why other people think that MS woud give them this sort of control when they don't give it to anyone else. It doesn't make sense. Valve is not a big enough player on consoles at the moment to push MS in any direction. They have nowhere near the influence on consoles right now that EA does.
I think Valve just loves to have access to games 24.7 like TF2 is ALWAYS getting updates, which they could keep down to 2 or 3 big updates a year and no one could complain. I think Valve wants to be able to update at any time, and MS doesn't want that, which is a valid point, I don't need a game that isn't a mmo updating every few days.
also many companies have been able to convince MS to change something. but Xbox Live wouldn't be the same if it wasn't unified.
That is definitely true. Once you open the door for devs to do these things, you're setting a precedent. Valve doesn't care because they just want to get their way. Again, I think they need much more influence in the console business before they even attempt to get MS to budge.
[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]
Steam is a store as far as I'm concerned. As a "service," I don't really see anything all that impressive about it.
Live and PSN are both too closed, but that isn't likely going to change anytime soon. At least Sony has the foresight ot allow some freedom to developers.
DragonfireXZ95
You must not play any multiplayer games or have any friends on Steam, because in terms of friends/multiplayer, it's a hell of a lot better than Xbox Live or PSN.
I disagree, I do have steam and constantly play games like CounterStrike Source/Gary Mods and Xbox 360 Live, I feel is leaps and bounds better than Steam. Like most users said earlier, Steam is consider as a online store, not really a gaming service.
[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]
Steam is a store as far as I'm concerned. As a "service," I don't really see anything all that impressive about it.
Live and PSN are both too closed, but that isn't likely going to change anytime soon. At least Sony has the foresight ot allow some freedom to developers.
DragonfireXZ95
You must not play any multiplayer games or have any friends on Steam, because in terms of friends/multiplayer, it's a hell of a lot better than Xbox Live or PSN.
Yeah, I generally dislike playing MP games on PC. TF2 and that BO free weekend were enough to convince me that MP is just more fun on ps3 for me.
That is definitely true. Once you open the door for devs to do these things, you're setting a precedent. Valve doesn't care because they just want to get their way. Again, I think they need much more influence in the console business before they even attempt to get MS to budge.tempest91You don't get since xbox live started several developer had complain about live,MS policy is not good for you period,is just good for them Epic raised their voice as well when they wanted to give DLC for Gears free and MS say no. There are other developers as well who had complain,many of this PC developer are use to give huge content free on PC,and MS want to charge for everything,since the start of the generation that was the mentality they focus on,and even hyped before the xbox was even launch micro transactions,it was all plan all of it from the start,so that everything or almost is sold not given away even if a developer want to give it away,from every single piece sold on the market MS get a cut,reason why they prefer selling things as oppose to giving them free. Which show how greedy they are because they already charge their user base a fee for online play. There is not a single pro to MS close environment is just fixed to get the most money out of every gamer,and some how here people go fiercely to defend that,how can i flame valve for wanting to give me something free that MS would be more than glad to put a $15 dollar price tag on.?
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
Yeah keep over charging me for over priced maps i don't want anything free paying is great. For mentalities like this is that MS milk their costumers dry,how can any one defend MS on this on beyond me.KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
iBrodeoShowdeo
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
iBrodeoShowdeo
I think Gabe is wasting his time for different reasons. Personally, I think Xbox users are unworthy of having a free service like steamworks. if MS decided to come into your house, steal your food and your clothes and then charge you for the priviledge, some here would find some way of justifying that behaviour and even to explain that itg was somehow a beneficial to them. smh
[QUOTE="iBrodeoShowdeo"]
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
spacedog1973
I think Gabe is wasting his time for different reasons. Personally, I think Xbox users are unworthy of having a free service like steamworks. if MS decided to come into your house, steal your food and your clothes and then charge you for the priviledge, some here would find some way of justifying that behaviour and even to explain that itg was somehow a beneficial to them. smh
Stockholm syndrome If the only thing i find that resembles this kind of practices of defending things that are bad for the customer in favor of multi billion dollar companies,some here ever feel happy to see MS bagging all that cash into their pockets from live gold and from over priced peripherals and over priced DLC.lol, it's soooooo entertaining to watch all the guys that hated valve and gabe a few years ago when gabe badmouthed sony want to cuddle up with them now.
cows have a short memory so i will help you out with a quick trip down memory lane.
"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted," said Newell. "I'd say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a 'do over.' Just say, 'This was a horrible disaster and we're sorry and we're going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it.'"
your welcome. :)
Is even greater how then Valve was great and now they some how are bad because they want a more open xbox live and want to give 360 users more choices and free download instead of over priced maps. It kind of work both ways dude.lol, it's soooooo entertaining to watch all the guys that hated valve and gabe a few years ago when gabe badmouthed sony want to cuddle up with them now.
cows have a short memory so i will help you out with a quick trip down memory lane.
"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted," said Newell. "I'd say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a 'do over.' Just say, 'This was a horrible disaster and we're sorry and we're going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it.'"
your welcome. :)
Riverwolf007
[QUOTE="iBrodeoShowdeo"]
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
spacedog1973
I think Gabe is wasting his time for different reasons. Personally, I think Xbox users are unworthy of having a free service like steamworks. if MS decided to come into your house, steal your food and your clothes and then charge you for the priviledge, some here would find some way of justifying that behaviour and even to explain that itg was somehow a beneficial to them. smh
wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy?
Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.
[QUOTE="Jelley0"]Me too. I'm tired of seeing more threads on these overhyped jerko**s. Buy a PC if you wanna play Valves overhyped hot garbage.I'm so sick of Valve. Steam is a terrible service. Though I have no idea what the effect would be XboxLive.
todd2r
yup, only reason to use steam is for the sales, other than that there is no reason to get use it.
[QUOTE="iBrodeoShowdeo"]Yeah keep over charging me for over priced maps i don't want anything free paying is great. For mentalities like this is that MS milk their costumers dry,how can any one defend MS on this on beyond me.KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
tormentos
there is over 500 free DLC.
try harder next time
Edit: also because it steam, DLC must be free right? there is probably 100's of DLC that cost money. I am sure there is more charged DLC on Steam than free DLC.
wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy? Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.gamer-adam1Free content alone if pretty big 10 maps on COD is $30 dollars than half of what a game cost,when maps and stuff like that can be release free for PC gamers and save the money,the fact alone that they will receive free content on PS3 and PC is a huge plus.
Yeah keep over charging me for over priced maps i don't want anything free paying is great. For mentalities like this is that MS milk their costumers dry,how can any one defend MS on this on beyond me.[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="iBrodeoShowdeo"]
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
gamer-adam1
there is over 500 free DLC.
try harder next time
Yeah many which are made free long after they were release for a price,for one PC game alone i could get more than 20,30 or 40 download,which far eclipse the pitiful number xbox live has. The fact that MS block content that is destine to be free from the start says it all,Epic stated it,Valve and several other MS do stop free content from hitting the 360,there is not a single reason on this planet in which MS should block content if a developer want to give it free.[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]Is even greater how then Valve was great and now they some how are bad because they want a more open xbox live and want to give 360 users more choices and free download instead of over priced maps. It kind of work both ways dude.because valve wanting to maximize profits by getting on xbl is the exact same thing as saying the ps3 is a total disaster that should be cancelled and done over?lol, it's soooooo entertaining to watch all the guys that hated valve and gabe a few years ago when gabe badmouthed sony want to cuddle up with them now.
cows have a short memory so i will help you out with a quick trip down memory lane.
"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted," said Newell. "I'd say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a 'do over.' Just say, 'This was a horrible disaster and we're sorry and we're going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it.'"
your welcome. :)
tormentos
the mental gymnastics you guys do to keep ahold of your views astounds me.
it's like you don't have the basic ability to see people motivations.
how can you dudes even survive in the world like that?
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy? Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.tormentosFree content alone if pretty big 10 maps on COD is $30 dollars than half of what a game cost,when maps and stuff like that can be release free for PC gamers and save the money,the fact alone that they will receive free content on PS3 and PC is a huge plus.
CoD maps are Free on the PC? news to me hmm Steam is telling me the 10 maps are still $30
[QUOTE="spacedog1973"]
[QUOTE="iBrodeoShowdeo"]
KEEP STEAM OFF OF XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT!
Gabe is a weasel and this service will do NOTHING to enhance XBOX LIVE whatsoever.
gamer-adam1
I think Gabe is wasting his time for different reasons. Personally, I think Xbox users are unworthy of having a free service like steamworks. if MS decided to come into your house, steal your food and your clothes and then charge you for the priviledge, some here would find some way of justifying that behaviour and even to explain that itg was somehow a beneficial to them. smh
wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy?
Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.
I never said it was steam. An xbox live is not the same as stemaworks how do you work this out. Do you not understand the difference between a paid and a free service? IN regfard to auto update, this again is irrelevant. Updates delivered through steam are only an annoyance to those who really lack patience or are playing on dial up.
because valve wanting to maximize profits by getting on xbl is the exact same thing as saying the ps3 is a total disaster that should be cancelled and done over?the mental gymnastics you guys do to keep ahold of your views astounds me.it's like you don't have the basic ability to see people motivations.how can you dudes even survive in the world like that?Riverwolf007How do you maximize profits of something that is been given free.? You accuse people of not having the basic ability of seeing people motivations.? I think you should read this. We literally just received a tip from a guy named Alex regarding Microsoft's apparent contempt for giving away free gifts to its many Xbox LIVE gamers. A short list of other things Microsoft despises includes puppies, rainbows, and the laughter of children. Ok, so, here's the scoop; Gears of War devs Epic and Marble Blast Ultra devs Garage Games have both, quite recently, completed additional downloadable content for their titles, and being the kind-hearted folk that they are, they decided internally to release it free of charge. Everything was going swimmingly up until the point where they handed it over to Microsoft for certification, at which point Microsoft seems to be holding them up indefinitely due to their desire to do give people something gratis. But is there something that Microsoft isn't telling us? Could there be significant free content available in the Market place that the company is withholding? Game Informer spoke with multiple contacts within the industry about the process that publishers and developers have to go through to get their content on Xbox Live Marketplace. We also found out that there is free content that companies want to offer, but Microsoft's mandating that consumers pay for it. When a publisher has goods it wants to put up for sale, those prices must first be submitted to Microsoft. As part of an agreement with the company, publishers have signed a document that hands over final say to Microsoft regarding Market place pricing. From here, Microsoft takes a look at the marktet and prices items to maintain a balance among items of similiar value. Game Informer talked to Aron Greenburg, Xbox Live/Xbox 360 group product manager who denied that Microsoft has final say over Market place pricing. "It's ultimitaly up to the publisher," he told us. However, according to our sources, it's not up to publishers, and free content is being with held from consumers under the speculated motive of Microsoft wanting to make gamers accustomed to paying money for goods above and beyond wallpapers. http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-hearts-capitalism-shiny-rocks-does-not-heart-free-content-sunshine-30592.phtml You can read the complete article there,MS like always deny it,but recently super meat ball developer also stated,they control pricing. You want to talk about people who don't see motivations of companies.? Go on there are articles on why xbox live is so close,and why free content is block,the motivation is money and greed.
i remember reading a article few months back which had some of the ridiculous xbl rules like the number of updates a company can do and how large the file has to be if its free otherwise microsoft will charge. i hate microsoft, ea and activation its just a pity they make several good games (excluding activation ofcourse)
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]because valve wanting to maximize profits by getting on xbl is the exact same thing as saying the ps3 is a total disaster that should be cancelled and done over?the mental gymnastics you guys do to keep ahold of your views astounds me.it's like you don't have the basic ability to see people motivations.how can you dudes even survive in the world like that?tormentosHow do you maximize profits of something that is been given free.? You accuse people of not having the basic ability of seeing people motivations.? I think you should read this. We literally just received a tip from a guy named Alex regarding Microsoft's apparent contempt for giving away free gifts to its many Xbox LIVE gamers. A short list of other things Microsoft despises includes puppies, rainbows, and the laughter of children. Ok, so, here's the scoop; Gears of War devs Epic and Marble Blast Ultra devs Garage Games have both, quite recently, completed additional downloadable content for their titles, and being the kind-hearted folk that they are, they decided internally to release it free of charge. Everything was going swimmingly up until the point where they handed it over to Microsoft for certification, at which point Microsoft seems to be holding them up indefinitely due to their desire to do give people something gratis. But is there something that Microsoft isn't telling us? Could there be significant free content available in the Market place that the company is withholding? Game Informer spoke with multiple contacts within the industry about the process that publishers and developers have to go through to get their content on Xbox Live Marketplace. We also found out that there is free content that companies want to offer, but Microsoft's mandating that consumers pay for it. When a publisher has goods it wants to put up for sale, those prices must first be submitted to Microsoft. As part of an agreement with the company, publishers have signed a document that hands over final say to Microsoft regarding Market place pricing. From here, Microsoft takes a look at the marktet and prices items to maintain a balance among items of similiar value. Game Informer talked to Aron Greenburg, Xbox Live/Xbox 360 group product manager who denied that Microsoft has final say over Market place pricing. "It's ultimitaly up to the publisher," he told us. However, according to our sources, it's not up to publishers, and free content is being with held from consumers under the speculated motive of Microsoft wanting to make gamers accustomed to paying money for goods above and beyond wallpapers. http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-hearts-capitalism-shiny-rocks-does-not-heart-free-content-sunshine-30592.phtml You can read the complete article there,MS like always deny it,but recently super meat ball developer also stated,they control pricing. You want to talk about people who don't see motivations of companies.? Go on there are articles on why xbox live is so close,and why free content is block,the motivation is money and greed.so?
when you give away crap for free you devalue it.
if i wanted to i could train peoples dogs for 30% of what i charge and still make an ok living but i don't because what i do has value.
how can i blame them for doing exactly what i do in my business?
if getting free stuff like that is important to you then get the format that does that all the time like pc.
Me too. I'm tired of seeing more threads on these overhyped jerko**s. Buy a PC if you wanna play Valves overhyped hot garbage.[QUOTE="todd2r"][QUOTE="Jelley0"]
I'm so sick of Valve. Steam is a terrible service. Though I have no idea what the effect would be XboxLive.
gamer-adam1
yup, only reason to use steam is for the sales, other than that there is no reason to get use it.
If you use Steam and don't understand how the programme works, then I suggest you read up on it because it does far more than provide constant, rock bottom sales and deals which you mention as a minor advantage lol. It provides everything XBL does, better and for free. Yeah, thats right.. free. THis argument has been done and won multiple times before. Didn't you read the memo?
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
[QUOTE="spacedog1973"]
I think Gabe is wasting his time for different reasons. Personally, I think Xbox users are unworthy of having a free service like steamworks. if MS decided to come into your house, steal your food and your clothes and then charge you for the priviledge, some here would find some way of justifying that behaviour and even to explain that itg was somehow a beneficial to them. smh
spacedog1973
wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy?
Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.
I never said it was steam. An xbox live is not the same as stemaworks how do you work this out. Do you not understand the difference between a paid and a free service? IN regfard to auto update, this again is irrelevant. Updates delivered through steam are only an annoyance to those who really lack patience or are playing on dial up.
Steamworks is more like XNA, than Xbox Live
I dont know how you could charge for Steamworks, or what you would be charging, because without steamworks the game built around it wouldn't even be able to run. so its like you pay for steamworks in buying the game, but everything that steamworks has, you get for free on xbox live
when you give away crap for free you devalue it.if i wanted to i could train peoples dogs for 30% of what i charge and still make an ok living but i don't because what i do has value.how can i blame them for doing exactly what i do in my business?if getting free stuff like that is important to you then get the format that does that all the time like pc.Riverwolf007That is a sad excuse just because something is given free doesn't mean is of poor value. And justifying conduct on which you as a consumer are rip off is worst,it show that you can't see past the choice you make,xbox live close environment is bad,not only is already MS making a ton of cash from live gold,but they push developers around to charge for content,is a sad notion to think that one or 2 maps of Gears of war 3 will be better if they carry a price,there are the same maps,if Epic was allow to give them for free they would have the same value they have if you pay for them,because they are the same. Worst you can't re-sell maps like you can at least do with games,so this so call value is mental in your mind.
[QUOTE="tempest91"]That is definitely true. Once you open the door for devs to do these things, you're setting a precedent. Valve doesn't care because they just want to get their way. Again, I think they need much more influence in the console business before they even attempt to get MS to budge.tormentosYou don't get since xbox live started several developer had complain about live,MS policy is not good for you period,is just good for them Epic raised their voice as well when they wanted to give DLC for Gears free and MS say no. There are other developers as well who had complain,many of this PC developer are use to give huge content free on PC,and MS want to charge for everything,since the start of the generation that was the mentality they focus on,and even hyped before the xbox was even launch micro transactions,it was all plan all of it from the start,so that everything or almost is sold not given away even if a developer want to give it away,from every single piece sold on the market MS get a cut,reason why they prefer selling things as oppose to giving them free. Which show how greedy they are because they already charge their user base a fee for online play. There is not a single pro to MS close environment is just fixed to get the most money out of every gamer,and some how here people go fiercely to defend that,how can i flame valve for wanting to give me something free that MS would be more than glad to put a $15 dollar price tag on.?
There is a pro out of their controlled environment, and I do get what they are doing. The controlled environment allows for a seamless experience from one game to another, unlike the hodge podge, pieced together, incosistent experience you get on the PS3 because it's left up to the devs to create and maintain the MP on each game with almost no support from Sony. MS supplies devs with great tools, they make sure they don't have ridiculously huge updates that take forever (as the PS3 has often), and they just want to be able to recoup some money from all of this through DLC. I can moan about this all day, but it has been this way since day 1. It's not like they just started doing this today. Why would they change it now since both Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model right now.
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]when you give away crap for free you devalue it.if i wanted to i could train peoples dogs for 30% of what i charge and still make an ok living but i don't because what i do has value.how can i blame them for doing exactly what i do in my business?if getting free stuff like that is important to you then get the format that does that all the time like pc.tormentosThat is a sad excuse just because something is given free doesn't mean is of poor value. And justifying conduct on which you as a consumer are rip off is worst,it show that you can't see past the choice you make,xbox live close environment is bad,not only is already MS making a ton of cash from live gold,but they push developers around to charge for content,is a sad notion to think that one or 2 maps of Gears of war 3 will be better if they carry a price,there are the same maps,if Epic was allow to give them for free they would have the same value they have if you pay for them,because they are the same. Worst you can't re-sell maps like you can at least do with games,so this so call value is mental in your mind.
It's clear that you just simply don't want to understand the business model behind xbox live. It's ok though, Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model and this is why PSN has attempted to copy every aspect of live, including offering a paid service for features, and why nintendo has expressed interest in having a similar online service for their new system. They understand and that's all that matters.
There is a pro out of their controlled environment, and I do get what they are doing. The controlled environment allows for a seamless experience from one game to another, unlike the hodge podge, pieced together, incosistent experience you get on the PS3 because it's left up to the devs to create and maintain the MP on each game with almost no support from Sony. MS supplies devs with great tools, they make sure they don't have ridiculously huge updates that take forever (as the PS3 has often), and they just want to be able to recoup some money from all of this through DLC. I can moan about this all day, but it has been this way since day 1. It's not like they just started doing this today. Why would they change it now since both Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model right now.tempest91No having a seamless experience has nothing to do with blocking content for been given away,if live was free then at least you have a justification for wanting to pay for almost everything,but not even sony does that,how can MS charge me for live and force developer to charge me as well when they want to give me something free.? Is funny because i could care less about all games been integrated when games like COD run like crap on xbox live and party chat and the $60 a year fee combined with the so call seamless experience you claim doesn't fix that. The most played series on xbox live is a broken cheat fest,so how do you justify a fee for something like that.? When on PSN you get the same free,party chat a integration doesn't stop cheating on xbox live,not even the banning has stop it. Upgrade takes minutes for me,maybe your connection has problems,or simply you don't have a PS3,you know what i haven't make my update to my PS3,i will done it soon and will record it and post it on Youtube to see if it really take forever. Like i told you xbox live users have to wait more for their console to arrive from the repair shop and they don't see to mind the 1 or 2 weeks without 360,so a few minutes for and update is minimal.
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]when you give away crap for free you devalue it.if i wanted to i could train peoples dogs for 30% of what i charge and still make an ok living but i don't because what i do has value.how can i blame them for doing exactly what i do in my business?if getting free stuff like that is important to you then get the format that does that all the time like pc.tormentosThat is a sad excuse just because something is given free doesn't mean is of poor value. And justifying conduct on which you as a consumer are rip off is worst,it show that you can't see past the choice you make,xbox live close environment is bad,not only is already MS making a ton of cash from live gold,but they push developers around to charge for content,is a sad notion to think that one or 2 maps of Gears of war 3 will be better if they carry a price,there are the same maps,if Epic was allow to give them for free they would have the same value they have if you pay for them,because they are the same. Worst you can't re-sell maps like you can at least do with games,so this so call value is mental in your mind.awww poor widdle devewopers gettin all pushed aroun by dat bad ole ms awwwwwww.
lol sorry bud, business is no place for emotions.
ms has the right to rip people off shamelessly if they want to since it's a free market.
if people feel ripped off then they will cease to use it.
since xbl has only ever grown larger and there has been no mass exodus to pc or psn then logically that says the consumers are ok with their policy and it is you who is the tinfoil hat guy.
the very outcome itself shows that there is no real problem here just business as usual.
Right. They are selling a box with air. The same air everyone breaths. So of course they're not comfortable about opening it up.
It's clear that you just simply don't want to understand the business model behind xbox live. It's ok though, Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model and this is why PSN has attempted to copy every aspect of live, including offering a paid service for features, and why nintendo has expressed interest in having a similar online service for their new system. They understand and that's all that matters.tempest91If sony wanted to charge for everything they would have charge already. Not every aspect of live sony has copy,in special the fee and the rip off for everything,if sony can mimic anything MS does and still give it for free i don't see how is that bad. There is the problem with that business model,in special when the one affected is you and me,you say you don't care but many were the flames thread and people mad when xbox live raised the price,the fact that some one has and xbox live doesn't mean they are happy paying. The fact that the PS Vita will have cross game chat free say allot about sony,and really make xbox live look even more like a rip off,because this is one of the most hyped features.
awww poor widdle devewopers gettin all pushed aroun by dat bad ole ms awwwwwww.lol sorry bud, business is no place for emotions.ms has the right to rip people off shamelessly if they want to since it's a free market.if people feel ripped off then they will cease to use it.since xbl has only ever grown larger and there has been no mass exodus to pc or psn then logically that says the consumers are ok with their policy and it is you who is the tinfoil hat guy.the very outcome itself shows that there is no real problem here just business as usual.Riverwolf00717 million live gold users out of a 55 million user base,a small % a very small %,which mean the majority actually stir away from xbox live gold,so is not this such a great business you think it is. 55 million users 35 million live accounts,17 million are gold the rest silver and some 20 million don't even have a silver or gold account.
[QUOTE="tempest91"]There is a pro out of their controlled environment, and I do get what they are doing. The controlled environment allows for a seamless experience from one game to another, unlike the hodge podge, pieced together, incosistent experience you get on the PS3 because it's left up to the devs to create and maintain the MP on each game with almost no support from Sony. MS supplies devs with great tools, they make sure they don't have ridiculously huge updates that take forever (as the PS3 has often), and they just want to be able to recoup some money from all of this through DLC. I can moan about this all day, but it has been this way since day 1. It's not like they just started doing this today. Why would they change it now since both Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model right now.No having a seamless experience has nothing to do with blocking content for been given away,if live was free then at least you have a justification for wanting to pay for almost everything,but not even sony does that,how can MS charge me for live and force developer to charge me as well when they want to give me something free.? Is funny because i could care less about all games been integrated when games like COD run like crap on xbox live and party chat and the $60 a year fee combined with the so call seamless experience you claim doesn't fix that. The most played series on xbox live is a broken cheat fest,so how do you justify a fee for something like that.? When on PSN you get the same free,party chat a integration doesn't stop cheating on xbox live,not even the banning has stop it. Upgrade takes minutes for me,maybe your connection has problems,or simply you don't have a PS3,you know what i haven't make my update to my PS3,i will done it soon and will record it and post it on Youtube to see if it really take forever. Like i told you xbox live users have to wait more for their console to arrive from the repair shop and they don't see to mind the 1 or 2 weeks without 360,so a few minutes for and update is minimal.tormentos
Steps to establishing a sound argument for Cows:
1. Downplay xbox live's seamless experience that Sony and Nintendo both want to have, and Sony has clearly tried to emulate.
2. Complain about paying for live when they never have.
3. Accuse XBL of being an unplayable cheating mess when it's perfectly playable and when just recently PSN was hacked and taken down for a month right after having a well known uplayable experience on MW2 because it was easily hacked.
4. Blame PSN's widely known slow downloads on the person's internet. Steam and Live are always faster, but it must be the ISP because the process of eilimination isn't a sound way to come to a conclusion on the matter.
5. Talk about broken 360's. An argument that is so tired and outdated that it can be equated with the PS3 has no games argument.
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]awww poor widdle devewopers gettin all pushed aroun by dat bad ole ms awwwwwww.lol sorry bud, business is no place for emotions.ms has the right to rip people off shamelessly if they want to since it's a free market.if people feel ripped off then they will cease to use it.since xbl has only ever grown larger and there has been no mass exodus to pc or psn then logically that says the consumers are ok with their policy and it is you who is the tinfoil hat guy.the very outcome itself shows that there is no real problem here just business as usual.tormentos17 million live gold users out of a 55 million user base,a small % a very small %,which mean the majority actually stir away from xbox live gold,so is not this such a great business you think it is. 55 million users 35 million live accounts,17 million are gold the rest silver and some 20 million don't even have a silver or gold account.the problem here is not ms business model the problem is your emotional connection to sony and ms and howthose emotions control your ability to make rational arguments.
[QUOTE="tempest91"]It's clear that you just simply don't want to understand the business model behind xbox live. It's ok though, Sony and Nintendo would love to have this model and this is why PSN has attempted to copy every aspect of live, including offering a paid service for features, and why nintendo has expressed interest in having a similar online service for their new system. They understand and that's all that matters.tormentosIf sony wanted to charge for everything they would have charge already. Not every aspect of live sony has copy,in special the fee and the rip off for everything,if sony can mimic anything MS does and still give it for free i don't see how is that bad. There is the problem with that business model,in special when the one affected is you and me,you say you don't care but many were the flames thread and people mad when xbox live raised the price,the fact that some one has and xbox live doesn't mean they are happy paying. The fact that the PS Vita will have cross game chat free say allot about sony,and really make xbox live look even more like a rip off,because this is one of the most hyped features.
That argument doesn't make sense. You're saying that because Sony doesn't charge for online, they never will? There's no way you can know that. They are attempting to keep as many things free as possible, but it's only because they have to in order to have anything to brag about. It's not the best, it's not great, but it is free. That's something to be proud of.
Steps to establishing a sound argument for Cows: 1. Downplay xbox live's seamless experience that Sony and Nintendo both want to have, and Sony has clearly tried to emulate.2. Complain about paying for live when they never have.3. Accuse XBL of being an unplayable cheating mess when it's perfectly playable and when just recently PSN was hacked and taken down for a month right after having a well known uplayable experience on MW2 because it was easily hacked.4. Blame PSN's widely known slow downloads on the person's internet. Steam and Live are always faster, but it must be the ISP because the process of eilimination isn't a sound way to come to a conclusion on the matter.5. Talk about broken 360's. An argument that is so tired and outdated that it can be equated with the PS3 has no games argument.tempest91
1)Seamless experience that in nothing stop games from sucking online,been broken,lagging or been full of cheaters,which is the real problem that plague games.
2)I have pay for xbox live.
3)Xbox live has cheaters,lag,host advantage issues,bugs just like PSN,denying this is useless.
4)Live OS upgrade = like 32 MB PSN update = like 170 MB,no matter in what connection you download 32 MB will always download faster than 170 MB.
5)The PS3 has games and more exlcusives than the 360 this past few years,RROD still a problem to this day,and old costumers are out of warranty.
[QUOTE="spacedog1973"]
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
wait so I am not allowed to use Steam? xbox users are unworthy?
Steamworks ISN'T even Steam BTW, and pretty much xbox users already get everything Steamworks, has, there is no auto update, because it only updates the game that you are going to play. free service, it is pretty much the same service all xbox users get.
gamer-adam1
I never said it was steam. An xbox live is not the same as stemaworks how do you work this out. Do you not understand the difference between a paid and a free service? IN regfard to auto update, this again is irrelevant. Updates delivered through steam are only an annoyance to those who really lack patience or are playing on dial up.
Steamworks is more like XNA, than Xbox Live
I dont know how you could charge for Steamworks, or what you would be charging, because without steamworks the game built around it wouldn't even be able to run. so its like you pay for steamworks in buying the game, but everything that steamworks has, you get for free on xbox live
What is the point of your argument? Are you for or against or what?
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