Used game sales nearly as bad as piracy?

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"]ppl that bring up piracy always for get this used games sales is basically the same thing (though legal) it robs the Devs of their precious income they need to make new gamesdc337

It isn't basically the same thing.

One is theft and the other is not.

A used game still represents a sale. At some point the used game was paid for and revenue was sent to the developer.

A pirated game is a copy that the developer will get nothing from.

That is a big difference.

Now I do think piracy is worse than selling used games (selling by user though, shops selling used games? That's worse than piracy), but from developer's perspective there's not much difference between those two.

Piracy is obviously a much bigger problem given the amount of complaints made by developers.

dc337

Listening to the vocal developers complain about piracy and believing that's the extent of the problem is not a great way to see the truth.

You overly righteous people make me sick.

Garage sales are also just as bad.

Oh well on a serious note, as people said, the devs get revenue from the initial purchase and only one copy will be out for that purchase. Pirating, there will be an initial purchase and a huge number of playbable copies will be out from that single purchase.

Garage sales are also just as bad.

Oh well on a serious note, as people said, the devs get revenue from the initial purchase and only one copy will be out for that purchase. Pirating, there will be an initial purchase and a huge number of playbable copies will be out from that single purchase.

tmntPunchout

I agree. Next time I walk past a garage sale I'm going shake my head and tut.

If they want to change software from selling it to a limited use liscence, I'll go along, but at the same time I would spend more than 10 bucks on a title. If I own a title, I'm not gonna feel bad for excersizing my rights as an owner. If they want to treat me like a renter, then I'll pay rental pricessantoron

change? did you ever bother to read a EULA? It alredy is like this, you aren't alowed to lend your copy to anyone, same with movies iirc

buying a used game is the same as piracy, just more stupid from the customer, since he actualy pays someone else for playing a game the developer didn't get any money from

" WE ARE BIGGER THAN THE MUSIC AND MOVIE INDUSTRY COMBINED!!!!" - Gaming industry.

-Recession occurs-

It's all the pirates, used game businesses and that person on the street that begs for money for coffee outside our office's fault that we didn't make a profit. It can't be the fact that the over-speculated a market and made far too big investments or that games are getting more expensive to develop this generation.

If the devs can't take it that a lot of people are buying used games then they are in the wrong business and shouldn't handle something that involves sales numbers. The used games industry wasn't a problem last gen or the 5 gens before and isn't the problem now either. It's time for the gaming industry to start looking internally for problems instead of blaming outside businesses that weren't a problem before and isn't one now.


I buy 90% of my games used on ebay and guess what? I don't feel the slightly remorse that I am smarter with my money by trying to get the best possibly deal. In fact 90% of the stuff own I have bought used (clothes exluded).

Is the used gaming market hurting the overall industry? Yes it is if you look at the big picture (If you look at the bigger picture though, all used markets are actually helping the overall economy in great ways), a bougth used game is a "potentially" lost sale. The thing is the used game market is not to blame for the downturn in the gaming industry and never will be. The used market didn't make Mirror's Edge and Dead Space sell only 150K the first month. The used games market aren't to blame that GTA: CW, House of the Dead: Overkill, MadWorld or Excitebots didn't reach 100K in the first month. There a big problems in the gaming industry and if the devs don't start to fix them it's going to be bigger problems.

One of the big problems is that the majority of the devs are stuck in the mentality that stopping all the pirates and blocking the used games industry is somehow going to fix all the problems when in fact they are both just scape-goats.They have been the two biggest scape-goats for so long though that the devs are actually believing on them themselves. That mentality needs to go away or the real problems will never get fixed and believing that all will be OK if these two HUGE problems are gone is just as stupid as believing the PS3 will take the lead as soon as a price-drop occurs and GT5 is released.

[QUOTE="santoron"]If they want to change software from selling it to a limited use liscence, I'll go along, but at the same time I would spend more than 10 bucks on a title. If I own a title, I'm not gonna feel bad for excersizing my rights as an owner. If they want to treat me like a renter, then I'll pay rental pricesEnosh88

change? did you ever bother to read a EULA? It alredy is like this, you aren't alowed to lend your copy to anyone, same with movies iirc

buying a used game is the same as piracy, just more stupid from the customer, since he actualy pays someone else for playing a game the developer didn't get any money from

So I take it you don't own anything used? Car?, house?, appartment?, a single used game?, pen?, book?, music CD or LP? furniture?

The used gaming industry isn't hurting the new game industry any more than any other used industry are hurting any other new industry. It isn't hurting it at all. It didn't hurt it 20 years ago and isn't responsible for anything right now either.

I also wouldn't call it stupid to buy a $60 for $20 from a friend.

How to prevent piracy? dont let anyone on the internet if you havent been on like 15 years or over.hellononononono

[QUOTE="hellononononono"]How to prevent piracy? dont let anyone on the internet if you havent been on like 15 years or over.Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="hellononononono"]How to prevent piracy? dont let anyone on the internet if you havent been on like 15 years or over.hellononononono

[QUOTE="hellononononono"][QUOTE="Danm_999"] Yes, because nobody using the internet since 1994 pirates games...JLF1

How to prevent piracy? dont let anyone on the internet if you havent been on like 15 years or over.hellononononono

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

[QUOTE="hellononononono"] lol werent as many people onlineeverythingisbad

At least l'm not going around ignoring reality.

I'd say it's much worse than piracy because it attracts gamers that actually spend money on games. I know lots of people who became PC gamers only because of piracy. If piracy didn't exist they would have been console gamers, so sales are not lost.

I'm glad no one has tried to kill the messenger so far but I'd like to clarify what I meant with the title of the thread, other than trying to get you read the whole thing. I didn't mean to say that reselling games is morally as bad as piracy, I was talking from a developer standpoint and how it affects them economically. Of course not every resold game doesn't mean a lost sale, just like with piracy. I have bought games from my friends but only because they'd otherwise sell them to Gamestop. It will be the day when I buy or sell used games there, I don't feel like getting ripped off.RK-Mara

Of course the perception is that the resale of a particular item - gaming or otherwise - will affect the revenue the manufacturer of that particular item generates, however there's really no solution. If to prohibit the sale of games 2nd hand is to generate greater profits for the publishers, then likewise it is to make the consumer just a little poorer as their gaming collection will no longer be assets, with a collective worth of zero.

It's not like EA are poor, although maybe they bought Bioware for a premium price just as the economy was slowing and they're concerned about getting a decent return from their (pretty expensive) investment...

if these idiot publishers can get it into their crummy heads that if they make game for £20 ($40) no one would ever buy a used game ever again. I certainly do not want to buy used games b/c some idiot could have shoved the game up their ass :lol: but i am forced to because new games cost way too much. Even for the Wii (£30). Make it £20 and say goodbye to used games.

Used games hurt creativity in the video game industry. Lack of sales on new Ips means publishers are less willing to throw out money on a new idea and more likely will choose to back a sequel to an already existing product because it will cost less to develop/market/advertise than it would a newer IP. That is why there are more sequels that come out every year than new ips.

CajunShooter

Of course the perception is that the resale of a particular item - gaming or otherwise - will affect the revenue the manufacturer of that particular item generates, however there's really no solution. If to prohibit the sale of games 2nd hand is to generate greater profits for the publishers, then likewise it is to make the consumer just a little poorer as their gaming collection will no longer be assets, with a collective worth of zero.

It's not like EA are poor, although maybe they bought Bioware for a premium price just as the economy was slowing and they're concerned about getting a decent return from their (pretty expensive) investment...

poptart

[QUOTE="PS3Gamer_1"][QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

How observant. But you shouldn't be turning a blind eye to one practice while slapping the wrist of a pirate.

AdrianWerner

Piracy isn't stealing. Even if a game is pirated a dev can still sell it, if I steal the car the owner won't be able to sell it anymore. Big difference. Really? What, really!?! yeah there is a big difference...pirating is STEALING!!! It's ILLEGAL!!!!

Anyway with used games.. if you buy used game then for developer it's the same thing as pirating...heck...even worse as it makes them loose every bit as much potential sales, but at the same time it is legal copy, so devs are expected to do tech support for it, provide online etc, despite not getting even a cent for it. From dev's perspective used game sales are just as bad, if not worse as pirating the game.

Piracy is stealing, there are laws agianst that! If a game is being sold used, the developer can still sell a new copy to those who want new copies. The developer already made money off of the original purchaser of the new game that is being sold as used. If a game is pirated the developer never sees a dime off of that pirated game. Now multiply that pirated game by thousands. Not one dime. At least with the used game the developer saw some mone off of the original purchaser.

Seriously, people in this thread do not think, or have flawed logic. How in the world is pirated games better than used games? How is used games worse than pirated games?

From a dev's perspective used games is bad. I agree, but they need to then act on it by making agreements with video game stores that they cannot sell used copies of newly released games up to a certian point, say 6 months or so. They can't stop inidividual sellers.

What a funny thing it is. Your paying for the game and the developers don't see a dime. I never see the point in paying for games that aren't in production anymore. -Master_St3ve-

here is the funnier thing: the devs already got paid when the game was sold as new...

[QUOTE="poptart"]

Of course the perception is that the resale of a particular item - gaming or otherwise - will affect the revenue the manufacturer of that particular item generates, however there's really no solution. If to prohibit the sale of games 2nd hand is to generate greater profits for the publishers, then likewise it is to make the consumer just a little poorer as their gaming collection will no longer be assets, with a collective worth of zero.

It's not like EA are poor, although maybe they bought Bioware for a premium price just as the economy was slowing and they're concerned about getting a decent return from their (pretty expensive) investment...

RK-Mara

except that with digital distribution, you dont actually own anything. you pay full retail price most of the time for data, nothing physical

i dont know about you, but i have friends that i like to let borrow games that i dont play anymore.... you wont be able to do that anymore with DD

im sure companies just love taking away consumer freedom, but i will not stand for that. this is part of economics in EVERY COUNTRY...

these devs nowadays are crybabies... jeez

no lol,

i buy used alot , more then new, only titles i know im going to like i buy new,

the rest i buy used, it saves money, and sure beats renting ,

i dont care what service it is blockbuster net flix- they are a waste of 2-3 dollars , ,

especally with scratche disc ,,

except that with digital distribution, you dont actually own anything. you pay full retail price most of the time for data, nothing physical

i dont know about you, but i have friends that i like to let borrow games that i dont play anymore.... you wont be able to do that anymore with DD

im sure companies just love taking away consumer freedom, but i will not stand for that. this is part of economics in EVERY COUNTRY...

these devs nowadays are crybabies... jeez

ogvampire

That's like saying you don't own the money on your bank account.RK-Mara

Piracy is stealing, there are laws agianst that!

PS3Gamer_1

Seriously..piracy is NOT stealing, it's a crime, it's prosecuted and punishable by law, but it's a completely separate type of crime from theft. It's also one that's less damaging socially than theft, thus in most law systems this crime has lower punishment levels than theft.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

except that with digital distribution, you dont actually own anything. you pay full retail price most of the time for data, nothing physical

i dont know about you, but i have friends that i like to let borrow games that i dont play anymore.... you wont be able to do that anymore with DD

im sure companies just love taking away consumer freedom, but i will not stand for that. this is part of economics in EVERY COUNTRY...

these devs nowadays are crybabies... jeez

RK-Mara

um... its nothing like that. at anytime you can withdraw your money and get physical cash

what service do you know of that will send you physical copies of DD games you downloaded?

what service do you know of that will send you physical copies of DD games you downloaded?

ogvampire

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

what service do you know of that will send you physical copies of DD games you downloaded?

RK-Mara

good to know... its just that simple, right ;)

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]

people sell their games. it's always happened.

a lot of games are short. but are £40. so people sell it on.

a lot of people buy a game but are dissappointed so sell it on.

Firebird-5

I'm not accusing you or anything, but why do the reasons pirates present get shot down but these don't? What you're doing is even worse: making money where the developer doesn't.

It's just more hypocritical bull.

[QUOTE="PS3Gamer_1"]

Piracy is stealing, there are laws agianst that!

AdrianWerner

Seriously..piracy is NOT stealing, it's a crime, it's prosecuted and punishable by law, but it's a completely separate type of crime from theft. It's also one that's less damaging socially than theft, thus in most law systems this crime has lower punishment levels than theft.

Wow. That is, wow. Piracy is a crime, and theft at it's best. You are not paying for the licence, you ar enot authorized to have a copy of a software, hence theft....Just trying to say that I said murder is stealing and treason, don;t put words into my mouth and read what I wrote, and your logic, well let's just say it's non-existant......better yet read this post!

If we are getting technical, software priacy is: The copyright infringement of software (often referred to as software piracy) refers to several practices which involve the unauthorized copying of computer software. Many people are unaware that making a copy of software they bought in a store for a friend is a crime. Not only is such an action a crime, but also, it ultimately raises software prices for honest consumers.

And if piracy is not theft than read into this quote:

"Not to belittle the effect piracy is having on the tech industry -- a recent study estimates that monetary losses due to piracy add up to 53 billion, worldwide -- but on the other hand, copyright infringement is already illegal, so you have to wonder if inflammatory rhetoric like Kutoba's really serves as a means of getting people to accept stiffer penalties for "terrorists" who copy games, music or movies."

Read more: http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/695863/Is-Software-Piracy-Terrorism.html#ixzz0KbGsHMRt&C

Hmm, companies not getting paid because of users downloading illegal copies is theft, or how do you define theft?

Yes it is.

Rentals are bad as well, but at least they do get some money from them.

Snagal123

Hmm, companies not getting paid because of users downloading illegal copies is theft, or how do you define theft?

PS3Gamer_1

Let's get this straight here. By commiting theft you not only take something without owner's consent, but also devoid him of ability to use it, When I steal your car you can no longer drive it. if I steal a game from your shop not only you won't get money for it from me, you also will be prevented to making any money on it by selling it to somebody else. If I just pirate the game I only take away the possible profit from you, but you're still capable of using the game by playing it or selling it to someone else. As you see by pirating I only did one type of damage to your interests, by theft I would do two types of damage.

When you you do damage to ones's interests there are two possible outcomes of it. Damnum emergens and Lucrum cessans. The first is actual damage that occured, the second is lost oportunity for profit. Theft does both, piracy only does the latter.

Just because piracy is a crime doesn't mean we have to lump it together with completely different type of crime.

From a business standpoint, if you don't buy DLC for your used copy then it's the same as piracy because the publisher and developer don't see any money from it at all. I buy all of my games new. I've never been one to be like, "I must have every game in the world day one or i'm a loser," so I can buy games for cheap even if they're new.Senor_Kami

its NOTHING like piracy. the Devs already got paid for their work when the used game was originally bought as new

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]From a business standpoint, if you don't buy DLC for your used copy then it's the same as piracy because the publisher and developer don't see any money from it at all. I buy all of my games new. I've never been one to be like, "I must have every game in the world day one or i'm a loser," so I can buy games for cheap even if they're new.ogvampire

its NOTHING like piracy. the Devs already got paid for their work when the used game was originally bought as new

For example if my friend bought a game and I pirated it from him, how is it any different (from devs' perspective) than him selling it to me?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]From a business standpoint, if you don't buy DLC for your used copy then it's the same as piracy because the publisher and developer don't see any money from it at all. I buy all of my games new. I've never been one to be like, "I must have every game in the world day one or i'm a loser," so I can buy games for cheap even if they're new.AdrianWerner

its NOTHING like piracy. the Devs already got paid for their work when the used game was originally bought as new

same thing happens when i let my friend borrow a game... i must be a pirate!!! :cry:

same thing happens when i let my friend borrow a game... i must be a pirate!!! :cry:

ogvampire

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]From a business standpoint, if you don't buy DLC for your used copy then it's the same as piracy because the publisher and developer don't see any money from it at all. I buy all of my games new. I've never been one to be like, "I must have every game in the world day one or i'm a loser," so I can buy games for cheap even if they're new.AdrianWerner

its NOTHING like piracy. the Devs already got paid for their work when the used game was originally bought as new

For example if my friend bought a game and I pirated it from him, how is it any different (from devs' perspective) than him selling it to me?

its like these devs have just realized how the economy works.... people sell their used stuff, and let people borrow or have each others stuff all the time

welcome to reality, Devs

also, this is why devs are devs and not businessmen... they have no idea how economies work... they should stick with what they know...

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

same thing happens when i let my friend borrow a game... i must be a pirate!!! :cry:

AdrianWerner

who said anything about copies or pirating? my example is if i let my friend borrow a game