Used game sales nearly as bad as piracy?

in this case what if somebody would take a look at that house and built one exactly like it, all by themselves (which in your analogy would be what pirating is). In this case I also don't see the contractors pissing and moaning.

AdrianWerner

EA, I bought your Mirror's Edge used for 25 dollars, and it wasn't even worth that. So yes, I am very happy you did not get my money, because they should've done a better job out of it. If they did get my money, at least I can say I was part of the reason they came out with a better sequel, if they don't **** up a great concept again.DeathScape666

Wrong. The devs have in fact been paid in full for that copy already. They are cryng they aren't getting paid twice for the same copy. If I buy a game and then sell it off, they don't have to provide me online or tech support anymore, because I don't have the game anymore. You're inferring that somehow they have to provide more support than they sell copies and that's simply not true.

santoron

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]EA, I bought your Mirror's Edge used for 25 dollars, and it wasn't even worth that. So yes, I am very happy you did not get my money, because they should've done a better job out of it. If they did get my money, at least I can say I was part of the reason they came out with a better sequel, if they don't **** up a great concept again.Birdy09

EA pwns, they sent me Battlefield Bad Company for FREE, i got it 1 day before official release :D (i won it 8) )

[QUOTE="All_that_is_Man"]

Heres a guide for you guys

Richymisiak

also this image is win

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]in this case what if somebody would take a look at that house and built one exactly like it, all by themselves (which in your analogy would be what pirating is). In this case I also don't see the contractors pissing and moaning.

cakeorrdeath

It's probably worse in terms of revenue because someone else is profiting other than the companies.

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]EA, I bought your Mirror's Edge used for 25 dollars, and it wasn't even worth that. So yes, I am very happy you did not get my money, because they should've done a better job out of it. If they did get my money, at least I can say I was part of the reason they came out with a better sequel, if they don't **** up a great concept again.Birdy09

That's simple. Every game out there that has ever been resold actually does benefit developers.... because it was originally bought from them in the first place! It just doesn't benefit them again everytime the game changes hands. Piracy never benefits the developer at all.

other than the legal aspect

i don't see much of a difference between the 2nd hand market and piracy

"because it was originally bought from them in the first place! It just doesn't benefit them again everytime the game changes hands. Piracy never benefits the developer at all."

you're missing the logic... there are the pirates who buy the game in order to rip them, it's the same as the person who bought the original game that is now sold used. yes you're getting more people buying the original game in order to resell it, but you can't say piracy has zero dev support.. someone has to be buying it in order to rip it, and there are plenty of different rippers.

games should have a price drop at least every 6 months... or 3 moths if the game is not selling well. One of the reasons I got Uncharted used was because I didnt want to pay full price for a game that came out in 2007.

GTSaiyanjin2

I know that annoys me so much when games don't drop in price.

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]EA, I bought your Mirror's Edge used for 25 dollars, and it wasn't even worth that. So yes, I am very happy you did not get my money, because they should've done a better job out of it. If they did get my money, at least I can say I was part of the reason they came out with a better sequel, if they don't **** up a great concept again.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="DeathScape666"]EA, I bought your Mirror's Edge used for 25 dollars, and it wasn't even worth that. So yes, I am very happy you did not get my money, because they should've done a better job out of it. If they did get my money, at least I can say I was part of the reason they came out with a better sequel, if they don't **** up a great concept again.sikanderahmed

EA pwns, they sent me Battlefield Bad Company for FREE, i got it 1 day before official release :D (i won it 8) )

Yes, because it is not regulated, so you sell it to a company for $5 and the company sells it back to you for $25+ and the developer/manufacturer gets no profit because you have essentially cut out the middle man.

I'm simply saying you shouldn't berate pirates when you're doing the exact same thing (pretty much).

Firebird-5

other than the legal aspect

i don't see much of a difference between the 2nd hand market and piracy

"because it was originally bought from them in the first place! It just doesn't benefit them again everytime the game changes hands. Piracy never benefits the developer at all."

you're missing the logic... there are the pirates who buy the game in order to rip them, it's the same as the person who bought the original game that is now sold used. yes you're getting more people buying the original game in order to resell it, but you can't say piracy has zero dev support.. someone has to be buying it in order to rip it, and there are plenty of different rippers.

voxware00

Let's put it this way, most companies make a product to sell. Every piece of the product they make is meant to be sold for their benefit and for them to make money. However, once I buy for example, a copy of EA's Deadspace it is no longer EA's, its ActicEdge's Deadspace. I can do whatever I please with this one original uncopied version. I can sell it, smash it, play it etc. A pirate buys a copy and then makes multiple copies, they are not allowed to sell those copies because they purchased 1 "Deadspcae" for their own personal use of that "one" orignal copy. Them creating several copies means they now own more than 1 copy of "Deadspace". They own multiple copies that they are not entitled to own under the law. The game is there's to do what they want with but not to reproduce. That's the difference. Also, if I lend my game to a friend, I can no longer play it, only they can. With piracy anyone can play the game at the same time. There is a difference.

"because it was originally bought from them in the first place! It just doesn't benefit them again everytime the game changes hands. Piracy never benefits the developer at all."

you're missing the logic... there are the pirates who buy the game in order to rip them, it's the same as the person who bought the original game that is now sold used. yes you're getting more people buying the original game in order to resell it, but you can't say piracy has zero dev support.. someone has to be buying it in order to rip it, and there are plenty of different rippers.

voxware00

I understand the thinking... it's simply flawed. If a pirate buys a game and then transmits 1,000 free copies, then 1,000 copis of the game exist that were not paid for. If EBgames sells 1,000 used Halo 3s, then the dev has still received full compensation for every single copy at the time they were first bought. There are no copies of games the devs haven't been compensated for that are being played at any time.

I've said it before and I'll restate it here. All forms of media, and almost every form of property imagineable, has a resale market. In at least the other media markets (Music, Movies, Books) you are dealing with the precise same situation you are dealing with here, and all other forms cooexist peacefully with their used markets. You aren't hearing authors crying about libraries, or used book stores, and it's silly to back the idea here. All forms of media have worked hard to compbat piracy, because they understand it's a seperate entity entitely.

Devs know that when they are selling you a game they are selling you the rights to lend/trade/or resale the game. Just like Books, music, and movies. This isn't a new development in the media industry, and it certainly isn't black market, or illegal. If they wanna cry poor now, try raising prices. If you want more direct sales, try lowering them. But don't cry to me that people do something with their property that is completely legal to do with every other piece of property I own.

I don't think used game sales are as bad as piracy at all. I buy used games and I also sell games on that I've finished with.

Often I'll buy games new at full price and then when I'm done with them I'll sell them on. If I couldn't sell my old games I'd probably buy a lot less new games and not just because I'd have less money to spend on games. Being able to sell old games acts as a safety net. For example when I bought Far Cry 2 I hated it, however luckily I was able to sell it for almost as much as I paid for it, if I hadn't been able to do that I'd become a lot more hesitant about the games I buy and I'd probably buy less new games.

As for buying used games, I usually look to see how much I can get a new copy for and if it's only a couple of quid more than used, I'll go for the new one.

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has adecent (though stillvery small in comparison to people buyingthese games) amount of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

a lot of people buy games for 60 bucks because they know they can sell it later for lets say 40 dollars

If 10-hour games didn't cost $60, maybe I would buy new games for consoles. I'll just stick to the PC and MMO's.

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

Puckhog04

except from the many dimes they received when the original owner bought the game

also, not everybody is buying used games

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

ogvampire

except from the many dimes they received when the original owner bought the game

also, not everybody is buying used games

I'd say the majority of gamers out there are. It's very naive to think otherwise IMO. Especially when you see a game like Uncharted for $40 used at Gamestop and see that the price of a new copy is still $60. :|

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

Puckhog04

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

Puckhog04

except from the many dimes they received when the original owner bought the game

also, not everybody is buying used games

I'd say the majority of gamers out there are. It's very naive to think otherwise IMO. Especially when you see a game like Uncharted for $40 used at Gamestop and see that the price of a new copy is still $60. :|

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

According to EA's Glen Schofield, Dead Space had twice as many players on PSN and XBL as it did buyers:

But then we also did studies on sort of how many unique users there were on the PSN network and Xbox Live. And realized, you know what, there's over three million people that have played Dead Space. Maybe we've only sold 1.5 millionRK-Mara

Full story on Kotaku.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

delta3074

And pirating applies to ALL pirating. Not just games but movies, CD's, etc. So?

No, I never said that. I'm simply comparing the amounts of people buying used games to the amount of people pirating games. Used games have far more people "jumping in" so to speak and rightfully so in most cases like the Uncharted case I talked about (yes, I saw those prices first hand). I never said it was wrong to buy used games but how does a person who's pirating a game differ from someone who is buying it used? The person buying it used is still get a much cheap product and the catch is that none of it goes to the devs or publishers. Same is the case with pirating a game. Fact is, while pirating has a decent amount of people doing it, everyone is buying used games. I never said it was wrong to do but if you're going to damn pirates then you have to look at used game buyers in the same way as they are essentially doing the same thing; buying a game without the devs or publishers getting any share.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Thing about pirating is, while it certainly has a good some amounts of people doing it, everybody is buying used games. I'd say it's worse than pirating. The devs or publishers don't see a dime from the sale.

ogvampire

except from the many dimes they received when the original owner bought the game

also, not everybody is buying used games

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

except from the many dimes they received when the original owner bought the game

also, not everybody is buying used games

ogvampire

I'd say the majority of gamers out there are. It's very naive to think otherwise IMO. Especially when you see a game like Uncharted for $40 used at Gamestop and see that the price of a new copy is still $60. :|

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

The argument that the devs should get money from used games is stupid.

Should I have given Honda a stipend when I sold my car? After all, they made it.

If you clear all the junk out of your attic or basement and have a garage sale, should whoever made all the old junk you're selling get a percentage of your sales? Better find out who made that old rickety wooden chair that's been collecting dust - they deserve a piece of the $5 you sell it for. That old Monopoly board game that you've had since you were a kid? You better send Mattel $1.50 if you sell it - after all, they made it in the first place. Those old VHS tapes you've had since 1991? Better send Paramount $.25 for each one you sell, because they made the movies to begin with.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

I'd say the majority of gamers out there are. It's very naive to think otherwise IMO. Especially when you see a game like Uncharted for $40 used at Gamestop and see that the price of a new copy is still $60. :|

Puckhog04

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

but with pirating the devs see absolutely no money...

with used games, the devs got money for every single used game when it was first bought.

either way, the consumer paid for the game, they get to sell it or give it away or do whatever they want with it (except making copies and selling those copies)

It's not just rentals and used games. Alot of people have multiple user accounts. I actually know someone that makes a new Live account each month so he can get XBox Live for free...-GeordiLaForge-

I think that a lot of people here think that it is wrong for the wrong reasons, it seems like people think it's wrong based on the fact that it is illegal(which is right) but they are totally overlooking the fact that when someone buys a used game or gets a lend of it from a friend it is essentially the same as downloading it. Someone probably bought the copy that you downloaded.

I rented Dead Space and beat it two times. If I would have bought that game I would be mad.

It's not just rentals and used games. Alot of people have multiple user accounts. I actually know someone that makes a new Live account each month so he can get XBox Live for free...-GeordiLaForge-

Yeah I know somebody that does that too

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

ogvampire

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

but with pirating the devs see absolutely no money...

with used games, the devs got money for every single used game when it was first bought.

either way, the consumer paid for the game, they get to sell it or give it away or do whatever they want with it (except making copies and selling those copies)

But then you look at different people pirating. I have a friend who pirated Street Fighter 4 on PC simply to get an early start on the game (for online obviously) and actually has it pre-purchased on PC. So, either way, he would count as a pirate, yet he is actually getting the game. No, he doesn't usually pirate games but, the ones he does, he ends up buying anyway soon after. So, how is that any different? Their still getting the money for the game but he "pirated" it. Granted, not all do this, but then again, the number of people buying used games far outweigh the amount of people that pirate games.

Again, just as a "disclaimer", I don't condone pirating. Never have I done it. I have alot of PC gamer buddies and he's the only one that does this for certain games. Usually games that require a good amount of skill, Battlefield 2 for instance, he pirated it then bought it. Everyone else i know just buys retail/Steam/D2D.

Plus you canhave a loan of a pals game if you want.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

I'd say the majority of gamers out there are. It's very naive to think otherwise IMO. Especially when you see a game like Uncharted for $40 used at Gamestop and see that the price of a new copy is still $60. :|

Puckhog04

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

But they are getting a share of the money... they get paid first! They have no business wondering what happens to a copy of their game once they have been paid in full for it. This isn't a case where they are asking to be compensated for their work, like in piracy. This is the devs wanting to paid multiple times for their work. And no other form of media has ever made a legitimate arguement against reselling a fully paid for product. It's poorly conceived and doomed to fail.

Theres only one thing to help us repent this unbelievable act of cruelty on publishers MASS SUICIDE only then we will not doomthe world!! bybuying a second hand game

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

and there is one of the problems right there.... maybe if these publishers and devs actually lowered the price of 2 year old games, then maybe people wouldnt need to buy the same game used

santoron

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

But they are getting a share of the money... they get paid first! They have no business wondering what happens to a copy of their game once they have been paid in full for it. This isn't a case where they are asking to be compensated for their work, like in piracy. This is the devs wanting to paid multiple times for their work. And no other form of media has ever made a legitimate arguement against reselling a fully paid for product. It's poorly conceived and doomed to fail.

See my response to OGVampire. :|

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

But that still doesn't change the fact that the devs or publishers aren't getting a share of the money. One could make the same case for some games that are pirated be it 360 or PC or whatever. Some games may not be worth $50 to that person. So they could justify pirating it. How is pirating it any different then buying it used? The devs still don't see the share in money.

Note - I've been a PC gamer since 1990 and have never pirated a game. In no way am I condoning pirating. :)

Puckhog04

but with pirating the devs see absolutely no money...

with used games, the devs got money for every single used game when it was first bought.

either way, the consumer paid for the game, they get to sell it or give it away or do whatever they want with it (except making copies and selling those copies)

But then you look at different people pirating. I have a friend who pirated Street Fighter 4 on PC simply to get an early start on the game (for online obviously) and actually has it pre-purchased on PC. So, either way, he would count as a pirate, yet he is actually getting the game. No, he doesn't usually pirate games but, the ones he does, he ends up buying anyway soon after. So, how is that any different? Their still getting the money for the game but he "pirated" it.Granted, not all do this, but then again, the number of people buying used games far outweigh the amount of people that pirate games.

Again, just as a "disclaimer", I don't condone pirating. Never have I done it. I have alot of PC gamer buddies and he's the only one that does this for certain games. Usually games that require a good amount of skill, Battlefield 2 for instance, pirated it then bought it. Everyone else i know just buys retail/Steam/D2D.

I hate when devs cry about used game sales. When we buy your product we can do what we want with it. If you want to compete with used game sales drop the price of your old games. Some titles stay at such rediculous high prices when they are so old.

So, then what to do with the game after finishing it?