StarWars Battlefront 2 is 4K 60fps (Scorpio) according to Windows Central.

MS has already stated it's up to the Developers how they want to use Scorpio's resources.

There is no "Forcing us to run games at Native 4K".

@PAL360

Yea, I highly doubt you're going to see Massive Open World Games Run at 60fps on anything with a Jaguar CPU on it no matter how many bottlenecks were improved.

@tigerbalm: what did Forza leave out?

MS doesn't have a policy on forced 4K, but there are competitive consideration.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-scorpio-has-enough-power-in-principle-to-deliver-4k60fps-madness-engine-is-highly-scaleable-project-cars-2-dev

Project Cars 2's developers already stated Scorpio has power to run 4K 60 fps which is a direct competition to Forza Motorsport 7's 4K/ 60 fps standard.

Current build ForzaTech 3D engine has Forward Plus lightning and PBR (physically based rendering).

Scorpio's Forza demo has dynamic weather enabled which is not an option for Forza Motorsport 6, but enabled for Forza Horizon 3.

Scorpio's 66.19 percent GPU usage has XBO graphics settings with 4K textures and dynamic weather as per Forza Horizon 3 build.

Scorpio's Forzatech reveal gives hints for incoming Forza Motorsport 7.

@xboxiphoneps3 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@goldenelementxl said:

If they force us to run games at native 4K and there are frame drops I'm gonna be pissed. There is nothing wrong with checkerboarding or upscaling from 1440 or 1800 when you are gaming on a TV and sitting on the couch. The extra power can be used for so many things. Pushing pixels is almost a waste of that power. I hope they at least give us options.

MS doesn't have a policy on forced 4K, but there are competitive consideration.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-scorpio-has-enough-power-in-principle-to-deliver-4k60fps-madness-engine-is-highly-scaleable-project-cars-2-dev

Project Cars 2's developers already stated Scorpio has power to run 4K 60 fps which is a direct competition to Forza Motorsport 7's 4K/ 60 fps standard.

Current build ForzaTech 3D engine has Forward Plus lightning and PBR (physically based rendering).

Scorpio's Forza demo has dynamic weather enabled which is not an option for Forza Motorsport 6, but enabled for Forza Horizon 3.

Scorpio's 66.19 percent GPU usage has XBO graphics settings with 4K textures and dynamic weather as per Forza Horizon 3 build.

Scorpio's Forzatech reveal gives hints for incoming Forza Motorsport 7.

Where they showing this without the June XDK update? (it's suppose to bring dev kits up to full 6 TFLOP count)

Why would Turn 10 need 2nd/3rd party June XDX release update when Turn 10 = MS?

Turn 10 has unrestricted access to Scorpio hardware since they directly tuned Scorpio hardware towards a certain direction.

MS's first party games has ForzaTech, Unity3D and Unreal Engine 4 to tune Scorpio hardware.

@ronvalencia: Unrestricted access? Is that why the first time anyone evaluated ForzaTech and Scorpio was when Richard from Digital Foundry was there? They put a guy in charge of getting the demo running asap... The "24 hour turnaround" was a result of Richards visit in short notice.

#buzzwords #mediahype

uh no....

They got to evaluate "scorpio" when the first set of chips made it on campus late last year. They did the port job around that same time and they displayed forza tech in a dev only demo before that. Richard got to see the results, not something done for him.

@spitfire-six: Nope. Turn 10 is working on the next Forza title. They obviously weren't going to show him that, so they threw together a ForzaTech demo running code based on the PC version of F6 Apex in less than 2 days. They dedicated man power to the demo and put them in their own office to get it done. It's detailed in Richards first article.

Everything about this ForzaTech demo and Digital foundry being there was a marketing stunt. Reading the early articles it's pretty clear that Richard was encouraged to say certain things. Reading his articles a couple of weeks after, he says things like," the validity of these comparisons is highly debatable," as if he's trying to walk back some of his statements in the name of credibility.

*takes off tinfoil hat

The Mighty Scorpio... Elements... of BH and preemptive DC is absolutely.... Golden... keep it comin. Great stuff!!! lolol :P

@goldenelementxl: A marketing stunt?.. If that's your attitude on the subject, then it can be argued that all tech reveals are marketing stunts.. Hell, E3 is basically one big marketing show right?.. What's your point?.. Of course, from a certain standpoint, having a big tech reveal can be viewed as "marketing".. That still doesn't change the specs of the console or the content of DF's findings..

And no, unless you're indeed wearing a tinfoil hat, it was not "pretty clear" that Richard was encouraged to say certain things during that tech reveal.. I said this at the time of the article and I'll say it again: Why is DF's credibility all of a sudden called into question when it comes to Scorpio?.. These are the same guys you've trusted for the last 3 years yet now they can be bought off?.. If that's the case, NOTHING they've said in the past should be trusted.. So I guess since DF was leading the charge in resoutiongate, maybe Sony "encouraged" DF to overhype the differences in native 1080p vs upscaled 1080p and took advantage of the console wars for clicks.. *takes off tinfoil hat*

At the end of the day, Richard didn't "walk back" anything he originally said.. He simply clarified that comparing a ForzaTech demo on Scorpio to Forza 6 Apex on PC is a "highly debatable" method of comparison.. That's it dude.. That's the extent of him "walking back" his statements in order to salvage his ruined credibility.. A simple statement of obvious clarification is all you can hang your hat on..

In any case, we'll find out if DF was paid off or not in just a couple weeks.. I just find it hilarious that we are questioning DF now when they were the bible on all things tech up until this point..

It was actually based on the FM6 Xbox One verion. Not Apex, remember?

Forza tech is the name of their engine its not a demo. They ported the engine in late 2016 when the soc made its way to the campus. During that time it took them 2 days. When richard showed up they showed him a demo on scorpio running forza tech with that stress test configuration. Are far as the rest that is your opinion and i really dont care to argue that with you.

You're still passing this crap on?

Scorpio is coming and it is going to be divine. Way too many rumors about games running at higher FPS and higher resolutions on Scorpio for there still to be doubt about how good the hardware is.

The scorpio will be good for consoles. I like to see consoles push further because it all in turns pushes PC gaming further as well. However, there is no way this will push 4k 60FPS on all these titles all the time with what it has in it.

My honest opinion is the xbox is a waste of time if you just build a PC. All exclusives now come to PC as well. I just keep the PS4 around for their exclusives.

I never said they were paid off. But lets address a couple of things...

1 - Why would Microsoft go to Digital Foundry for their tech reveal? Who was Microsofts biggest pain in the ass up until that point this generation? Where did the Sony fans get all of their ammunition to that point? Microsoft chose DF because they were getting killed by DF all generation. What better way to flip the script than to have that site get the exclusive scoop?

2 - How was it that Microsoft lost the generation before it started? I think we can all agree that was the case, right? They started behind because of the negative press and reception of their console. The negative perception of the Xbox One was spread from the hardcore, forum visiting, pixel and frame counting "gamers" and spread to a large number of consumers. The best way to ensure a better hype level was to go after that hardcore's source of information!

3 - We didn't hear/read Richard say anything questioning the demo or the comparisons until well after the dust settled. That doesn't mean he was paid off. But is it possible that Microsoft said, "hey we will give you the exclusive, which will give your site TONS of clicks and exposure as long as you let us proof the articles first"? That is VERY common in the real world. I work around/with this type of stuff often.

4 - You mention Richards "findings." What could he have found without the console in his office, playing full games himself with all of his testing software and equipment? He didn't "find" anything. He was shown a controlled demonstration and was more than likely NDA'd before he left. This would be like gaming journalist writing reviews based on closed door E3 demos.

Also, I only questioned Richards articles until he said the validity of his comparisons were highly debatable. If that doesn't scream, "I was encouraged to say some things I wouldn't normally" to you then I don't know what to tell you. Again, he wasn't lying or paid off. But he was given an opportunity to capitalize on a great opportunity and he did the best with what he was able to do. Anyone who knows anything about hardware knows the Scorpio will be above and beyond anything the competition is doing. I'm buying the console day 1 myself. But I also know how things work in the real world, so when games aren't native 4K, Forza 7 doesn't look like that screen shot and the Scorpio isn't more powerful than a GTX 1070, I won't look like a jackass.

It is possible to be hyped without falling for all the hype. And judging from gamings history, people have and will continue to fall for almost anything when they are excited.

@goldenelementxl: Except they already made mention they didnt know what he was going to write. You should just stop reaching. It makes you look crazy.

They didn't know what he was going to write, but they knew what he wrote before it was posted to the site.

you're certainly implying they were paid off so it's essentially the same thing.. and in response:

1) Yes, that's exactly why Microsoft went to Digital Foundry..

2) again, no one is disputing that's the very reason why Digital Foundry was likely chosen as their tech reveal source for Scorpio.. that, and the fact that DF is supposedly a highly credible and respected tech journalism site (which i guess is an afterthought now all of a sudden)..

3) that's pure tinfoil hat talk right there.. it's painfully obvious that he made the best comparison available to him which was logically a comparison with Forza 6 Apex running on a high-end PC.. and yes, that's a debatable comparison and he said as much in the original article (link: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-scorpio-is-console-hardware-pushed-to-a-new-level) .. there was no "dust settling", this was his statement in the original article:

"From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases. It's only one data point, and the extent to which the code is comparable at all is debatable, but it certainly doesn't harm Scorpio's credentials: Forza 6 Apex received plenty of praise for the quality of its PC port."

so I ask you, how is he "walking back" statements when he said it was a debatable comparison right from the very start?.. put your tinfoil hat away dude, there isn't some conspiracy going on here..

4) in the context of my statement, "findings" = "analysis".. he offered his professional assessment of what he saw and that's all that can be asked of him..

No, it seems you only started to question Richard once his analysis of what Project Scorpio is capable of didn't fit your personal views on the subject.. And then you keep trying to admit that he wasn't paid off but then you immediately follow that up with terms like "capitalize".. that's the very definition of your general contradictions on this subject right there..

And please forgive people for taking Richard's analysis at face value.. If you don't believe Scorpio will do native 4K and Forza 7 wont be representative to what DF reported from that ForzaTech demo, that's fine.. but, again, it's funny how you have to run the risk of "looking like a jackass" now if you believe DF's opinion on tech but these same guys were apparently preaching the gospel when it came to differences in native 1080p vs upscaled 1080p and how much of a big deal it supposedly is.. whatever dude, the true color of your statements on the matter are plain to see.. no need to try and explain yourself further.. we'll see what's what in a couple weeks at E3 and i'd imagine the goal posts will be moved yet again..

a refresh 4 years into the gen can run a second series frostbite game at that settings "wow"...

Too bad this game will be as shallow and mediocre as the first "buh buh SP ..." yea f*ck off.

In response to 3)

"The extent to which the comparison is valid is highly debatable, but we tried to replicate the ForzaTech content on the PC version based on this ultra-level stress test."

This quote was from the article, "Forza Motorsport on Scorpio: The Full Story published on April 9th, 3 days after the initial article. Meaning, Richard hadn't actually tried to compare the hardware and Forza himself before the original article on the 6th went public!!!! He just looked at the PC 4K article and took their word for it. We also started seeing actual reporting after the 6th, when they updated their original story with this, "Microsoft's Andrew Goossen has been in touch to clarify that D3D12 support at the hardware level is actually a part of the existing Xbox One and Xbox One S too. "Scorpio builds on the Command Processor capability present in the original Xbox One," we're told. "Our implementation of D3D12 supports all Xbox Ones, and games have already shipped that use it." AKA, the internet was running wild with the "DirectX12 is custom built in the new chip" nonsense and somebody had to come out and say it's no different then what has been used in the existing hardware.

I've been called a closet lemming on this site more times than I can count. I don't care who has the best whatever, because I will also have the best whatever. I own everything. It just kills me everytime something new gets announced or a new pre-rendered video of a game gets shown. Everybody falls for the hype, the hype doesn't get met, and we get all the "TeH Downgradez" threads when people figure it out. When Forza 7 comes out, if it drops a single frame or isn't running at PC's max settings, Lemmings are going to look silly and Cows won't let you live it down. It's like nobody ever learns from taking L's around here! Richard says plenty of things in his articles after the initial one like, "In terms of a better look at how Scorpio will handle a breadth of software, we'll need to see more games - third party titles in particular." He doesn't say anything remotely critical or inquisitive in his first few articles. Why? "We learned about Forza Motorsport on Project Scorpio at an exclusive briefing at Turn 10 Studios Microsoft paid for travel and accommodation"And that's not being paid off. If they continued to fluff their Microsoft pieces instead of reporting the truth, THAT would make them paid off. This was Digital Foundry acting as an extension of Microsofts PR in exchange for an exclusive. This happens in the news, internet, magazines etc all the time. That doesn't make the publications "paid off," it's how business is done.

No surprises here that the best console versions from now on will be on the Scorpio and add on EA Access, this game will be discounted and even in the Vault before the year ends. It's funny too because the other side could get advertising rights but their fans will have to pay at full price while EA Access which is only found on Xbox will get discounted first lol.

@goldenelementxl: He performed the test before the original article, not 3 days later.. Read the quote I posted again:

"Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080."

This was contained in the original article, check the link I provided if you desire further proof.. The article you are referencing is simply a deeper dive into that original information.. Beyond that, on the day of the original articles, DF said there will be further analysis and deep dives to come.. So the continued coverage was expected and is not some conspiracy theory where Richard is walking back his statements.. Everything else you said is just pure speculation on your part.. Even the custom DX12 stuff was further clarified in another DF deep dive which described just how customized their CPU is and how DX12 plays into that.. Link: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth

So, again, you are continuing to question DF's credibility and you're basically saying they were paid off to write positive impressions about Scorpio instead of simply believing that they came away from the demonstration with genuinely positive impressions.. That's the beginning and end of the issue here..

I mean, if we want to talk about conspiracies and "how business is done", which does DF stand to gain more clicks from?:

1) a tech reveal for Project Scorpio with positive results

Or

2) continued overhyping of the differences between native 1080p on PS4 vs upscaled 1080p on XB1 that's scewed towards the more popular console ?

Why doesn't your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories extend to that as well?.. DF has supposedly been an unbiased and credible source of tech information for this entire generation but are all of a sudden untrustworthy when it comes to Project Scorpio?.. If you don't see how laughable that is, then I don't know what to tell you.. If you're questioning DF now, then everything they've ever said this generation needs to be called into question because arguably no other website benefited from additional clicks as a result of "resolutiongate" more than Digital Foundry.. Please do us a favor and link me to some of your tinfoil hat theories that questioned their credibility throughout this generation when it came to resolutiongate and I'll gladly stand corrected.. Otherwise, your questioning of Digital Foundry ONLY when its linked to positive Scorpio impressions is self-explanatory and self-evident as to why some people may call you a closet fanboy.. You call general positive impressions by DF of Scorpio "fluff" but point to any cherry-picked quotes to the contrary as the "truth", coupled with vague speculation about what may have gone on behind closed doors.. That right there says all that needs to be said about your stance on the subject regardless of whether not you plan on buying the hardware..

10 more days!

Countdown to Cowmageddon has begun.

Nothing they've done in the past needs to be brought into question. The 2 scenarios aren't even similar.

- Digital Foundry independently reporting on performance and visuals of video games and comparing them between consoles

VS

- Digital Foundry going on an all expenses paid trip to a Microsoft first party studio, getting the exclusive scoop and reporting on the controlled presentation


And I've been accused of being a Microsoft fanboy and a Sony hater, so I'm sure what you're getting at there.

@goldenelementxl: credibility is credibility sir.. If an organization is untrustworthy, they are untrustworthy.. You cannot have it both ways..

Digital Foundry definitely stands to benefit from clicks from console wars fueled comparisons but those are to be taken at face value versus them gaining an exclusive tech reveal just because Microsoft footed the bill for travel and accommodations?.. Please.. Sony footed the same bill for PS4 Pro coverage.. Was DF influenced by that as well?.. Corruption is corruption.. So if you're calling DF into question now, everything they ever posted needs to be called into question.. Period..

@Antwan3K: And that PS4 Pro article from last year was full of the same fluff and PR speak. I don't deny that and never have. But everyone saw that presentation and multiple sources covered the event. It's still not the same thing.

And for the 1737382th time, I'm not saying Digital Foundry is unreliable. The day Richard admitted the comparisons were debatable I walked back my skepticism. Fanboys on the other hand continue to take snippets of his article as gospel without all of the context. As for the Scorpio reveal viewer bump, the reveal video sits just under a million views, while the magority of their other videos, especially comparison videos sit around 80K.

@goldenelementxl: He said his comparison was debatable in the very first article dude.. Yet here we are today with you still making the same comments..

And yes, the tech reveal gave them a bump a viewership.. So?.. Thats fully expected and would have been the case for any outlet.. Are we to believe no one is credible if they are able to secure an exclusive?.. It remains that the only time you seemed to want to call DF's credibility into question is when it is tied to positive Scorpio impressions.. That's all that needs to be said really..

I don't have a problem with DF but Richard Leadbetter has been in MS pockets since 2013,he was the one running all those articles hyping the shitty xbox one secret sauces,he was the one making PR for MS with architect interviews that were done to downplay and damage control the gap in performance they had vs the PS4.

This is so true is not even funny,5 billion transistors APU,move engines,ESRAM,tiled resources,MS try it all and Richard was the one delivering the message.

I even make a thread exposing how 2 sided Richards was...

When it was PC vs PS4 1080p vs 900p was a massive 44% gap,but when the same gap was for the PS4 vs xbox one some how the gap was smaller than the number suggested,he was 2 sided and i find incredible how much it took for him to raise a flag about the Scorpio CPU which is the same shit as the Pro one,but 200mhz faster which surely will create a bottleneck.

Scorpio has 43% more GPU than pro but only 10% more CPU that is a total disparity in performance and since the Pro was CPU bound by Richards claims,so would also be scorpio which only recently he dare raise that question.

The results are clear enough. The 270/270X mostly delivers the 1080p60 experience we crave, but under stress both cards fall behind the PS4 performance. Bearing in mind that the AMD cards are still delivering a massive 44 per cent boost in resolution over the PS4 game, it's clear that they remain the sweet spot in terms of price vs performance.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-next-gen-digital-foundry-pc

This is DF saying that the R270 is the sweet spot in terms of price vs performance and look how they ignore the PS4 running faster than the R270 at settings like the PS4 but in 1080p performance clearly didn't matter here in favor of the PS4 but 44 more pixels was a MASSIVE boost in resolution.

This is PC vs PS4.

The amount of visually compromised 720p/792p titles appearing on Xbox One dwindled as the year progressed, while the 900p/1080p differential turned out to be much less pronounced than the raw maths suggested.

Is magic all of the sudden 1080p vs 900p is not massive any more,and the difference is much less pronounced that the raw numbers suggest.

What's crucial in this case is that not only are both COD and Far Cry 4's res reductions well-handled on Xbox One, they also have performance profiles equivalent to or even better than their PS4 counterparts - and we're firmly of the belief that frame-rate difficulties have much more of an impact on the overall experience than resolution.

Oh whats this? Now frames matter more than resolution to Richard,odd i just quote him downplaying the PS4 beating a R270 frame wise when the R270 had 1080p vs 900p.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-does-resolution-really-matter

Since some games that had higher resolution in 2015 and 2014 had a few faster frames on xbox one he totally hide on frames to downplay the PS4 advantage of resolution.

Funny thing he doesn't mention the games that are faster on PS4 while also having higher resolution.

Richard Leadbetter is a sell out,and unlike the with the Pro and PS4 either he did not make like 8 articles in a row like he did with scorpio,he did not do that with the Pro.

@tormentos: I don't care.. Until there is concrete proof to the contrary, I'm taking DF's word at face value just as I have this entire generation.. They're the experts on tech and know much more about the subject than we do.. And we'll have concrete proof starting next weekend at E3 anyway..

@Antwan3K: Concrete proof at E3? That's precious

Lol, cows used to love DF when they were pumping out all the PS4-praising graphics/resolution comparisons all gen... Now DF are "sell outs". Lmao.

Scorpio's ForzaTech reveal also has PC Ultra settings and dynamic weather which wasn't an option for FM6..

Scorpio's wet track reveal with tons of transparencies and alpha effects was a demonstration on "Pixel Engine --> memory controller" path bottleneck reduction which is a well known AMD GPU design problem. This problem affects deferred rendering engines like CryEngine 3 and Unreal Engine 4.

No AMD GPU with PC game has beaten GTX 980 Ti/GTX 1070 on Pixel Engine workloads! This is why I jump ship on NVIDIA GPUs.

AMD's software optimizations involves minimizing Pixel Engine to memory controller bottlenecks while on NVIDIA Maxwell/Pascal GPUs doesn't need AMD's software optimizations.

If XB1 can handle it at 900p 60fps then its definitely possible the Scorpio could hit a native 4K 60fps with similar graphic settings.

Your historical pattern and your arguments are

1. Use DF when there's advantages for PS4

2. Scrap DF when it's disadvantages for PS4.

--------------

There's no XBO secret sauces. Cows hammer on XBO's 16 ROPS problem and MS has addressed this argument with practical memory bandwidth usage counter argument. Furthermore, TMUs can be used like ROPS, but without ROPS fix hardware features. MS's counter argument with 16 vs 32 ROPS is valid. If cows focused on Shader ALU bottlenecks, then MS has zero counter argument and this problem can't be workaround until new hardware is released e.g. Scorpio.

Scorpio's wet track reveal with tons of transparencies and alpha effects was a demonstration on "Pixel Engine --> memory controller" path bottleneck reduction which is a well known AMD GPU design problem. This problem affects deferred rendering engines like CryEngine 3 and Unreal Engine 4.

Before Scorpio, no AMD GPU design with PC game has beaten GTX 980 Ti/GTX 1070 on Pixel Engine workloads! This is why I jump ship on NVIDIA GPUs.

@tormentos said:

This is so true is not even funny,5 billion transistors APU,move engines,ESRAM,tiled resources,MS try it all and Richard was the one delivering the message.

When done correctly, tile rendering works... it's powering NVIDIA Maxwell and Pascal GPUs which murders current AMD GPUs.

5 billion transistors.... = still doesn't fix Shader ALU bound.

Move engines = still doesn't fix Shader ALU bound. Additional Move Engines are for ESRAM. Zero copy is better on fast primary memory pool.

ESRAM = still doesn't fix Shader ALU bound. It's only keeps ROPS and TMU fetch rates on the fastest memory pool. It's faster than 7770 version.

tiled resource = still doesn't fix Shader ALU bound. It's only keeps TMU fetch rates on the fastest memory pool. It's faster than 7770 version.

Additional move engines, ESRAM and tiled resources workarounds can be solved by a single unified and fast memory storage setup i.e. keep it simple.

yep, and what'll be even more precious is how far the goal posts will be moved again.. let me guess, we shouldn't believe anything we see on Microsoft's E3 stage briefing either right?.. it's all gonna be smoke and mirrors?.. "i wont beleive that until i have the console in my home"?.. Gotcha and fair enough.. sooner or later, we'll know whether or not DF was misleading us and E3 will be the first bit of evidence we get.. I look forward to seeing your predictable reactions..

You people care too much about what the visuals are going to be like of a bad game.

@Antwan3K: The press conferences are 90 minutes of buzzwords and fake gameplay videos. Remember the Killzone 2 reveal? Did the actual game look anything like that? Where does most of the material for "the downgrade" arguments come from? There are Kinect gifs all over the internet that prove the stage demos were fake. Then we have all those hands on kiosk from the console makers that crash to windows screens. Hell, you can't even take them seriously when games get announced.

Sony and Ubisoft are notorious for being full of shit at E3. So for you to say we will get, "concrete proof" at E3 is hilarious. E3 is fun and exciting, but you should believe none of what you hear and half of what you see to avoid disappointment.

Wait....so Digital Foundry counted when they were giving the PlayStation the nod and now they praise the new Xbox and now they don't count?

Why is that?

MS/Xbox Derangement Syndrome. It's an insidious illness affecting the minds of MS/Xbox anti-fans worldwide. :(

Well that along with, cows gonna cow. :P

@SecretPolice: that would explain it.

Still the Xbox Version. The version they used was a version post release of FM6. This is stated in the article and in the video where Richard confirmed it was a straight Xbox One port to scoprio. Just because dynamic weather wasn't an option, doesn't mean that the engine is incapable of it. Same goes for the PC ultra settings.

LOL I know. Now they are all conspiracy theorists claiming DF is on the take since Sony is about to be the weakest link. Its really sad. Cows are such poor sports that what makes this forum funny. They just cant admit when Sony isnt the best at something its like a disorder they invent stuff in their minds to block it.

The chickens are coming home to roost. They'll all take their ball and go home though. Come holiday season everyone one here will suddenly become hermits with highend rigs that shit on scorpio lol.

The build they used is after the they shipped FM6 to retail and it's PC Ultra settings capable. Forza M6 and H3 PC build is similar i.e. notice R9-290X and GTX 980 Ti's near consistent results. On XBO, there's 60 fps vs 30 fps difference.

My MSI 980 Ti factory OC has faster average frame rate than the reference 980 Ti which has similar results to GTX 1070 with minimum frame rate not less than 53 fps.

Scale RX-470's 36 fps with 211 Gbps by Scorpio's memory bandwidth gain which is 54 percent higher memory bandwidth, it lands on GTX 1070 range i.e. 56 fps.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

We quadrupled the GPU L2 cache size, again for targeting the 4K performance."

XBO version is already tiled render game and GPU's 2MB L2 cache was used to reach 4K.

Existing AMD GPU's pixel engines are not even connected to L2 cache.

ok i'll admit that "concrete proof" was an overreach on my part but you definitely knew what I was trying to say.. and as you are illustrating right now, if/when DF's analysis of Project Scorpio is shown to be accurate at E3, the goal post will be moved to "everything shown at E3 is typically fake".. I guess when other tech sources get hands-on time with Scorpio and potentially give positive impressions, they'll all be paid off too.. whatever dude, just little over a week to go until we get to hear the next round of excuses..

This whole quest for 4k is really starting to annoy me and is arguably gonna hold back graphical development for the foreseeable future. If you gave me a choice between slightly better than base console visuals, 30fps (maybe 60) and 4k, or 1080p, 60fps guaranteed, better textures, AA, lighting, shadows, anisotropic filtering and every other setting you can think of, I'm picking the latter every time.

Before someone replies to tell me that Forza 2 on Scorpio will have similar settings to PC ultra, if that turns out to be true, it's probably because it's a Windows cross-platform title and Microsoft will want parity, to show off the power of their newest console. If the Forza 2 devs wanted to, they could really bump up the quality of the PC version.

Forza M6's existing ultra graphics quality settings already gimps on lesser PC GPUs. MS doesn't practice NVIDIA's massive tessellation gimping.

Max Anisotropic filtering is forced on Scorpio's BC XBO and X360 games.

There's less need for locked 60 fps with FreeSync/HDMI 2.1 VRR support.

You didn't have to put up charts of random card benchmarks just so say you agree with me. I never mentioned anything about L2 cache so that's irrelevant.

Regardless, Microsoft duly obliged, showing us a ForzaTech demonstration with the Xbox One engine operating at native 4K, at a locked 60fps. As you can see in the screenshot above, GPU utilisation is remarkably low at just 60-70 per cent (you can grab a full 4K PNG version of the above shot here) - but we should stress that this is basically an Xbox One port, not representative of the full quality we'll see in final software.

"This is us. This is ForzaTech running 60 frames a second, 4K," says Turn 10 Studio Software Architect, Chris Tector. "We're still running with settings that we would have used in Forza 6... but this is also including 4K content... we've got authored assets for this set of the models, cars, tracks everything. We pushed it through and made sure the 4K textures were flowing through. We've got them all there at the right resolutions and they're not giving us enough of a bandwidth hit to offset that. If we drop back to when we originally ran and we didn't have 4K assets, it was maybe one per cent different. We were very much bound on a different point than memory bandwidth. It's been awesome and this is the point it's at."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

The demo stacks up the maximum amount of cars and runs the full AI and physics simulations. It's a highly taxing stress test, used to enforce the strict budgets in Forza Motorsport to ensure the locked 60fps the series is famous for. The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one. In fact, the team can push ForzaTech to the equivalent of PC's ultra-level settings and we're still sitting at 88 per cent GPU utilisation; in terms of system utilisation, this is ballpark with Xbox One at 1080p on its default settings. Clearly this is just one game, but the point is that Scorpio doesn't just scale Xbox One engines to 4K. For the Forza engine at least, there's overhead, and plenty of it.

"ForzaTech port to Scorpio" has PC's Ultra settings.

Graphics pipeline bottleneck/latency reductions and memory bandwidth increase has wider performance increase when compared to double rate FP16 feature.

The combined memory bandwidth basic concept

On current AMD GPUs, Pixel Engine path couldn't use L2 cache.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

We quadrupled the GPU L2 cache size, again for targeting the 4K performance."

XBO version is already tiled render game and GPU's 2MB L2 cache was used to reach 4K performance.

With Vega, L2 cache can used by Pixel Engine path.

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Existing AMD GPU's pixel engines are not even connected to L2 cache.

Using Pixel Engine path on current AMD GPUs has higher latency and encounters memory controller bottleneck.