Source : The Division already downgraded because of consoles

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Cloud_imperium

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#1 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15142 Posts

Whatifgaming reported that The Division has already been downgraded visually. According to Whatifgaming, a source dev (whose identity cannot be revealed for obvious reasons) told them that the team has already took out ‘quite a lot of screen space reflections from the game’ and that the final product will not look as good as its E3 2013 reveal.

Here is the full email Whatifgaming received.

We really loved the reception to the demo we showed on the PC version at E3. Currently as it stands, there is definitely a lot of push coming from publishers to not make the experience so different on consoles as to alienate people into thinking that next generation is not as powerful as PC. This is probably what happened at Ubisoft Montreal. I think that while making stability changes is definitely important, it does not completely obliterate a lot of enhanced rendering applications.

Right now we already took out quite a lot of screen space reflections from the game and are working on asset management the best we can given consoles have that great unified memory. Naturally we will also be using online servers and have to produce a synchronization that higher graphics add to the latency so it had to be turned down. To me it still looks good, but not as good as the original reveal. I am sure as we get closer to launch and the actual console versions of the game featuring SD (Snowdrop) that it will start to seem all too obvious to people especially those on PCs. I just wanted to write and let you know that it definitely is not just stability but marketing politics plays into this a lot as well.

UPDATED 2nd Response from The Division Developer: Truth be told in regards to your question that while ‘Yes’ the lead platform is the PC, we simply cannot have such a big gap. As you know when the first WATCH DOGS Review was published by that one site, Ubisoft called it a “false review” and I am sure everyone can see how bad that sounded when they saw the game did look marginally better than something that was a last generation GTA IV. But no, they will not admit that they practice this or actively downgrade a game. It is much easier to say they removed things for stability which is often a lie as you can tell by the post-issues which are expected in any production we do.

Also to answer your 3rd question, no…they will never fully disclose what was removed from what build as no laws ask them to do so in terms of consumer rights. If we as developers published that information in very real terms for the consumer such as “Replaced particle fog simulation with 2d layer simulation in 3d space, removed particles from all explosions, lowered explosion volume multiplier by 20x, removed X # of trees and civilians, etc.” we would be out of a lot of sales and probably it would actually require too much time to deliver on the current hype that a lot of downgraded games see which look incredible with a vertical slice. I do share this in the hope’s that my colleagues and publishers and a lot of people who make false promises and do demonstrations which wrongfully create too much hype that they cannot deliver on ultimately stop doing such things. I want to see the industry actually move forward and not be so full of itself by promising too much and delivering too little. Regards

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lostrib

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#2 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

yay rumors

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chikenfriedrice

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#3 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

Damn weak ass consoles

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misterpmedia

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#4 misterpmedia
Member since 2013 • 6209 Posts

this is surely because of watchdogsgate

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MonsieurX

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#6  Edited By MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39840 Posts

What a shocking surprise

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#7  Edited By B4X
Member since 2014 • 5660 Posts

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locopatho

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#8 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24089 Posts

If only PC gaming could support it's own games. Then it could stop bitching at consoles all day.

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melonfarmerz

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#9 melonfarmerz
Member since 2014 • 1294 Posts

@locopatho said:

If only PC gaming could support it's own games. Then it could stop bitching at consoles all day.

PC gaming supports its own exclusives just fine. Look at the massive profit on LoL, DOTA, CS, SC, ect. It's multiplats that consoles are holding PC's back on.

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SentientMind

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#10 SentientMind
Member since 2013 • 361 Posts

@melonfarmerz: Didn't we give like 50 million towards SC. The pc community is very alive, it's a pretty picky community though.

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Cloud_imperium

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#11 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15142 Posts
@SentientMind said:

@melonfarmerz: Didn't we give like 50 million towards SC. The pc community is very alive, it's a pretty picky community though.

Starcraft 2 : Wings of Liberty cost over 100 million dollars to develop and market and it have sold at least over 9 million copies so far . Original Starcraft with expansions had sold 11 million copies . 3rd expansion , Legacy of the void is yet to come out and it is safe to say that the game will reach milestone of original game . Death of PC gaming was greatly exaggerated .

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locopatho

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#12 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24089 Posts

@melonfarmerz said:

@locopatho said:

If only PC gaming could support it's own games. Then it could stop bitching at consoles all day.

PC gaming supports its own exclusives just fine. Look at the massive profit on LoL, DOTA, CS, SC, ect. It's multiplats that consoles are holding PC's back on.

Lol. It's funny because the exclusives (all in genres that consoles can't do btw, the only reason they remain exclusive) you just named all look worse then the supposed "held back multiplats". (Assassin's Creed IV and Crysis 3 spring to mind) Because those games are designed to work on as many PCs as possible. Simple supply and demand. Cater to the bigger audience that buy more games... yet the hardcore PC gamers never seem to bitch at the vast, vast segment of PC gamers on crappy machines that the likes of Blizzard cater to with their "held back" graphics. Why not I wonder?

The cutting edge gaming PC owners just have to bitch all day because they don't buy enough games to justify exclusives. They complain at console gamers for "holding their games back"... yet those games just wouldn't be made at all if consoles didn't exist. It just isn't profitable to make AAA blockbuster exclusive games for the small segment of hardcore PC gamers, no matter how much they wish it was and bitch at console gamers. The core PC gamers like to think they are the elite, "the master race", when they are actually just an afterthought for most AAA developers. They are lucky to get ports of Dark Souls and GTAV, never mind demanding them as exclusive.

I have a gaming PC this gen btw, and would welcome more blockbuster exclusives to leave consoles in the dirt. I know that won't happen though, because of simple supply and demand. No need to get angry at simple realities that I can't change. As it is, I will enjoy my awesome multiplat games on my PC, and not bitch at my console gamer friends.

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santoron

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#13 santoron
Member since 2006 • 8584 Posts

I'd tell TC and other crazed hermits to think about how stupid this sounds, and how much more likely it is that a no name gaming site (and you) are getting trolled, but you guys made up your mind about "Downgradegate" before it ever popped up.

I've heard this whine since I started lurking here over a decade ago, and it embarrasses me as a PC gamer how many of you guys actually run with this tripe.

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Dasein808

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#14 Dasein808
Member since 2008 • 839 Posts

Why can't you peasants even try to lift?

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Pray_to_me

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#15  Edited By Pray_to_me
Member since 2011 • 4041 Posts

This sounds like it was written by s system wars fanboy not a dev. Fools who think it's a conspiracy when a game designed to run on on PS360 doesn't look as good as Infamous.

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handssss

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#16 handssss
Member since 2013 • 1907 Posts

it took a petition to make them decide to make it for PC as well, so I don't think you can be in the position to claim about the shortcomings of the consoles here.

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nethernova

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#17  Edited By nethernova
Member since 2008 • 5718 Posts

@locopatho said:

Lol. It's funny because the exclusives (all in genres that consoles can't do btw, the only reason they remain exclusive) you just named all look worse then the supposed "held back multiplats". (Assassin's Creed IV and Crysis 3 spring to mind) Because those games are designed to work on as many PCs as possible. Simple supply and demand. Cater to the bigger audience that buy more games... yet the hardcore PC gamers never seem to bitch at the vast, vast segment of PC gamers on crappy machines that the likes of Blizzard cater to with their "held back" graphics. Why not I wonder?

This. A thousand times this. Congratulations, good sir, but don't expect those hardcore hermits to answer it.

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silversix_

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#18 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

This shouldn't be considered as a rumor but a fact. Not only, well, Ubisoft but also it looked too good to be true last year and in 2014 all i've seen is jaggies. The Division will be downgraded at least as much as Watch Dogs was, at least and i personally expect sexier downgrade.

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KungfuKitten

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#19  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

Or they simply lack the skills and talent.

Because why wouldn't they allow for 'such a big gap'? Console fanboys know that their hardware isn't that great. So what if the PC version looks twice as good? It won't change the idea that PC's are too complicated for them, or too expensive upfront.
Wouldn't their console game be compared to other console games anyway, by the console centric gaming media?

Sounds like damage control.

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#20 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 58510 Posts

@locopatho said:

If only PC gaming could support it's own games. Then it could stop bitching at consoles all day.

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speedfreak48t5p

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#21  Edited By speedfreak48t5p
Member since 2009 • 14031 Posts

Another downgrade by Ubisoft. How shocking.

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stereointegrity

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#22 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

@speedfreak48t5p said:

Another downgrade by Ubisoft. How shocking.

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#23 k2theswiss
Member since 2007 • 16599 Posts

shocking news!

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#24  Edited By AM-Gamer
Member since 2012 • 8116 Posts

@melonfarmerz: SC isn't even out yet and the rest of those games are not technically demanding. That's why you don't see many technically impressive pc exclusives because the average pc gamer doesn't have the hardware to run it.

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#25 melonfarmerz
Member since 2014 • 1294 Posts

@AM-Gamer said:

@melonfarmerz: SC isn't even out yet and the rest of those games are not technically demanding. That's why you don't see many technically impressive pc exclusives because the average pc gamer doesn't have the hardware to run it.

Dude. Starcraft

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AM-Gamer

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#26 AM-Gamer
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@melonfarmerz: Well in that case not one game you mentioned is technically demanding. So why is it all the pc exclusives usually look far worse then multiplatform titles? In the case of consoles the opposite is true. I'll tell you once and I'll tell you again. It's not consoles holding back pc gaming it's weak pc's.

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#28  Edited By DEadliNE-Zero0
Member since 2014 • 6607 Posts

@locopatho said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@locopatho said:

If only PC gaming could support it's own games. Then it could stop bitching at consoles all day.

PC gaming supports its own exclusives just fine. Look at the massive profit on LoL, DOTA, CS, SC, ect. It's multiplats that consoles are holding PC's back on.

Lol. It's funny because the exclusives (all in genres that consoles can't do btw, the only reason they remain exclusive) you just named all look worse then the supposed "held back multiplats". (Assassin's Creed IV and Crysis 3 spring to mind) Because those games are designed to work on as many PCs as possible. Simple supply and demand. Cater to the bigger audience that buy more games... yet the hardcore PC gamers never seem to bitch at the vast, vast segment of PC gamers on crappy machines that the likes of Blizzard cater to with their "held back" graphics. Why not I wonder?

The cutting edge gaming PC owners just have to bitch all day because they don't buy enough games to justify exclusives. They complain at console gamers for "holding their games back"... yet those games just wouldn't be made at all if consoles didn't exist. It just isn't profitable to make AAA blockbuster exclusive games for the small segment of hardcore PC gamers, no matter how much they wish it was and bitch at console gamers. The core PC gamers like to think they are the elite, "the master race", when they are actually just an afterthought for most AAA developers. They are lucky to get ports of Dark Souls and GTAV, never mind demanding them as exclusive.

I have a gaming PC this gen btw, and would welcome more blockbuster exclusives to leave consoles in the dirt. I know that won't happen though, because of simple supply and demand. No need to get angry at simple realities that I can't change. As it is, I will enjoy my awesome multiplat games on my PC, and not bitch at my console gamer friends.

So what is The Witcher series? Crysis as always been a stupid example because Crytek made it too powerfull and heavy for the majority of rigs. It would eventually sell 3 million on PC alone.

GW2 sold 3.5 million copies, and it's was very demanding game, CPU wise for me atleast, when it released. Dark Souls had almost 1/3 of it's sales on PC.

Reality is, the sales that vastly outsell PC tend to games that target the lowest common denominator. GTA is highly known series that every person knows about, like COD, so it sells tons more on consoles.

But for nichers titles, liek DS, the difference is much shorter. Even worse, no deverloper nowadays makes exclusive for xbox or playstation. i'ts all multiplats. Unless MS or Sony pay for it, they know it won't sell enough either. All 3 platforms are requiered.

What you fail to get is that PC is growing, but still smaller, i know. However, because of DD, profits margins are higher, by almost double on PC. Ense why every dev nowadays makes for PC. Also, many games have PC as lead platform, so, the intention to make for it from the start is obvious.

There's also the question of which type of game it is. Batman is clearly pointed at consoles and casual gamers since it uses Batman's name and it's controll scheme works better on gamepads, from my experience,

Finally, since most of these AAA games waste more than half their budget on massive, overblown marketing to sell to the average person, no wonder they can't make for PC, and any core gamers, alone.

Why do you think there's such a huge difference between DS and Watch Dogs in terms of sales? Best part is, more and more of these are failing, like Tomb Raider, which took 10 months to be profitable.

And in regards to downgrading, why even push visuals anyway? Most players are casual who wouldn't know about any of this. Why do many games have ultra settings that look clearly better than consoles? This is what it's about. The tech is there, but for the sake of parity, they downgrade it. That's the issue at hand.

EDIT: One final thing. There's a reason why 95% of big budget game made for consoles is a "FPS/TPS, hack and slash, action, adventure, shooter, with alittle bit of RPG elements" type of game. Because that's all that sell in the fucking millions.

Just ask the Splinter Cell devs that admited they couldn't make a challenging stealth games on consoles, since the target audiance is simply too small.

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#29  Edited By Flubbbs
Member since 2010 • 4968 Posts

just a rumor.. but we know its coming

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CrownKingArthur

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#30 CrownKingArthur
Member since 2013 • 5262 Posts

that article was pretty interesting

i mean, it's true that the console manufacturers have money, and it's true that it's hardly expensive to build a PC which can outperform a next genner in a video game workload. so if i were a console manufacturer , having sold less than 10M consoles and eager to increase the size of the install base:

well i'd probably engage in a really corrupt practice, like lying that a game is 1080P when it's 1080i, or maybe getting an imaginary person to write reviews, or installing rootkits. but of course i only say that based on the track record of console manufacturers.

so i think yes this isn't far fetched, not really. not saying i 100% believe it, but why is this unbelievable? they're merely trying to protect their investment using resources/relationships available.

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#31  Edited By foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

A real shame that consoles have to hold PC gaming back.

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#32 PyratRum
Member since 2013 • 778 Posts

An uncredited source from a no-name website.

Calm down folks.

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melonfarmerz

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#33 melonfarmerz
Member since 2014 • 1294 Posts

@AM-Gamer said:

@melonfarmerz: Well in that case not one game you mentioned is technically demanding. So why is it all the pc exclusives usually look far worse then multiplatform titles? In the case of consoles the opposite is true. I'll tell you once and I'll tell you again. It's not consoles holding back pc gaming it's weak pc's.

Wow thanks for telling me once and telling me again. Are you a gaming analyst? You constantly use a lack of evidence, cherry picked arguments, and an overall highly console bias perspective in every post you make. It's not weak PC's holding back PC gaming. It's a simple numbers game. Vast amounts of casual console gamers will always provide much better sales. This entire "holding back" thing isn't a conspiracy, it's common sense. Gimp the sales from the less populated platform to drastically boost the sales of the larger platform of casuals.

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#35 ProjectPat187
Member since 2005 • 2160 Posts

Everything is downgraded and held back because of consoles.

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melonfarmerz

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#36  Edited By melonfarmerz
Member since 2014 • 1294 Posts

@KungfuKitten said:

Or they simply lack the skills and talent.

Because why wouldn't they allow for 'such a big gap'? Console fanboys know that their hardware isn't that great. So what if the PC version looks twice as good? It won't change the idea that PC's are too complicated for them, or too expensive upfront.

Wouldn't their console game be compared to other console games anyway, by the console centric gaming media?

Sounds like damage control.

I think it's valid reasoning and not damage control. Think about all the hype MS and Sony have put into the power of their new consoles. Phrases like "a hundred times more powerful" and "revolutionary games never before possible" have been thrown around so much, casual gamers are probably expecting super computer type stuff on their consoles.

At the end of a console cycle, it's reasonable to think PC graphics double that of consoles but 6 months into the gen?

I'll bet a game that looks "half as good as the PC version" won't sell as much as a game that looks "on par with ultra settings on the most high end 10K dual SLI Titan gaming rig."

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#38 AM-Gamer
Member since 2012 • 8116 Posts

@melonfarmerz: vast amount of casual console gamers? There are only about 15 million PS4s and Xbox ones combined. Are you saying there are not more people that own a pc then PS4s and Xbox ones? Do you need a fucking graph to grasp that simple concept? That the majority of your pc gamers own significantly weaker hardware then the PS4 and Xbox one. The pc gaming community is made up of more casuals then both consoles combined. That's why Shit like farmville is so successful.

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TheTruthIsREAL

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#39 TheTruthIsREAL
Member since 2013 • 813 Posts

Downgraded because of consoles? Just another point in my book on why console gamers are the master race lol. Ok if it was downgraded because of consoles, then why should console gamers care? This doesn't affect us in anyway. Herms need a new hobby.

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#40  Edited By BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

Did anyone actually think consoles were capable of this:

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#42  Edited By AM-Gamer
Member since 2012 • 8116 Posts

@Motokid6: Arma doesn't look that impressive especially now. Project cars is multiplat. And what amazing indie titles is currently available on pc that looks so stunning?

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#44 AM-Gamer
Member since 2012 • 8116 Posts

@Motokid6: Would like me to explain to you how corporate structure works? And how a company looks at overall profit margins by a platform to decide the types of titles it will get? When things like LOL do far better then the original Crysis, you can expect to get more f2p Shit that's not very technically demanding.

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CrownKingArthur

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#45 CrownKingArthur
Member since 2013 • 5262 Posts

words said 'next car game'

the response 'project cars'

what a fucking stupid asshole.

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melonfarmerz

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#46  Edited By melonfarmerz
Member since 2014 • 1294 Posts

@AM-Gamer said:

@melonfarmerz: vast amount of casual console gamers? There are only about 15 million PS4s and Xbox ones combined. Are you saying there are not more people that own a pc then PS4s and Xbox ones? Do you need a fucking graph to grasp that simple concept? That the majority of your pc gamers own significantly weaker hardware then the PS4 and Xbox one. The pc gaming community is made up of more casuals then both consoles combined. That's why Shit like farmville is so successful.

Really? You're going to tell me PC gamers are "vast" because of the large amounts of laptop and tablet "gamers" that shouldn't even count but completely ignore Xbox 360 and PS3 sales?

And before you argue that if I'm counting last gen only owners as console gamers, I need to count laptop owners as PC gamers too, here' the difference. If I have a last gen console, I most likely still play games like COD and GTA, actual games. If I am one of the hundreds of millions of "casual PC" users, not "gamers". I do not know what Mass Effect even is. I just go on Facebook and play Farmville and Bloons. I don't even consider myself a gamer.

You're arguments are utter, cherry picked garbage. COD isn't marketed to casual "candy crush" players who play facebook games that you consider to be PC gamers. It's marketed to the millions of casual kids and bro gamers who game exclusively on console and think PC's are too complicated and expensive. You are clumping a group of "gamers" who play pay to win browser games on budget laptops meant for web browsing a few minutes a week to guys with 800 dollar rigs and 100+ games in their steam accounts. There is a fundamental flaw in that. On the other hand, I can easily argue that casual last gen only console gamers and hardcore console gamers are the same demographic. They both have the same machine, they both pay the same amount of money, and they both play the same games (Battlefield, Skyrim, FIFA, ect)

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DEadliNE-Zero0

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#47  Edited By DEadliNE-Zero0
Member since 2014 • 6607 Posts

@CrownKingArthur: You do make me wonder about something.

If platform parity isn't a thing, because most console gamers are casual players who probably don't even know about this stuff, why are MS and Sony so god damm obsessed with 1080p and 60fps? Along with better gfx, these 3 point to the main technical ways to tell the platfomrs apart via multiplats.

So if graphics aren't downgraded because of PC, why was Sony, for example, so quick to post that Watch Dogs was "1080p/60fps". I guess i could see tehr esolutiongate abit, why the frames then?

Really makes me wonder.

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#48  Edited By TheTruthIsREAL
Member since 2013 • 813 Posts

@Motokid6: The only gaming industry that seems to be affected is the PC industry even though this is how it has always been. Maybe you should reevaluate your investments if you know that your money will not be put to good use. Console gamers get what is catered to them. PC gamers get what is catered to console gamers with a little flexibility. So, again, this doesn't change anything on the console scene, so it's the herms problem, not the console's players. Better invest your money :)

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#49  Edited By DeathLordCrime
Member since 2014 • 893 Posts

@AM-Gamer:

Funny how you seem to downplay games like star citizen now saying arma 3 isn't impressive especially the scale.

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highking_kallor

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#50  Edited By highking_kallor
Member since 2014 • 594 Posts

@farrell2k said:

Not surprising. Consoles have been holding back pc gaming for a decade. Console kids are happy with mediocrity, so that's what they get.

So no PC exclusives confirmed? Or are they held back by consoles also?