Nintendo's biggest problem is Nintendo

But Nintendo being Nintendo hasn't been helping them as of late. If they don't adapt well enough then soon they will have to stop making hardware. If Switch fails to hit even the lowest of expectations Nintendo will drop out of the hardware business. You can't come back after two consecutive failures like that.

@stuff238: Nintendo innovates while Microsoft and Sony copy. Besides online gaming which Nintendo give its players for no extra cost, Microsoft and Sony are not 20 years of them in anything.

Dropping out and leaving the business would be better than having garbage like Destiny, Call of Duty and The Division as your main attractions.

If that's the kind of shit gamers want and demand these days, then they are lost and all hope for gaming is gone.

You pick three games to generalize the whole industry? Jesus, have you not even played Inside? You know a game that never appeared on a Nintendo console, but easily matches Nintendo in quality.

What the **** is up with your avatar? Maybe I'm way off base here (I hope so) but it looks like you hate Nintendo so much that you would openly celebrate a sick looking Iwata just to bring despair to Nintendo fans?

That's not Iwata dingus. Its Hiroshi Yamauchi who was the President of Nintendo back when they kicked ass. There are some things he said that I don't agree with "Calling third party companies Useless" but by and large he was a much better President than Iwata.

Also Correction, I only hate modern Nintendo, but I'm a huge fan of Nintendo consoles/games up until the Gamecube.

Thank. Goodness. I'm somewhat less disturbed right about now.

@Ghost_Dub: As you can see I ain't playing when I say I'm a hardcore old school Nintendo fan.

Dude. Polygon turned their back on us. And we have turned our back on them. At least you didn't link to them.

Nintendo made bad decisions. So did many gaming companies this year. I don't think that the shortage was artificial. They are missing out on a ton of exposure and money by not selling tens of thousands of NES Classics. Maybe it started off as an artificial shortage, which is a standard these days. I think it's a fair guess that they completely misjudged how much they would sell. Much like any publisher in the gaming industry doesn't seem to have a clue what would sell. Kickstarter is a good indication of that. Star Citizen is. And the online checks in Super Mario Runner are straight up a bad decision. They seem paranoid about hacks/meddling with the code. Well, that's going to happen. Leaderboards are always broken. They are going to be broken. It's not a big deal to us gamers. We know this, we are used to this, so I think these checks are pointless and just hinder the normal users. It would be good if they let go a little. Just chill out, Nintendo.

It just seems that with Nintendo it's always made to be this bigger deal. As if there is some kind of story here. There are a lot of companies that made bad guesses and wrong decisions this year. Recore was a mistake. The throwing in Batman VR was a mistake. Oculus trying to separate the VR market is a mistake. Palmer Lucky made some mistakes. SF V still isn't OK. No Man's Sky was a whole mess. Quantum Break... you know. And of course Nintendo made many more mistakes than just the Classic NES shortage and the phone game but it's not something that stands out to me. I think we should complain about these things that we don't like especially if they make no sense, but I do want to point out that I don't feel that these mistakes are all that special.

Not a surprise. Nintendo sabotages itself and the fans praise the sabotage. Nintendo sabotage gaming with gimmicks and fans praise the gimmicks. Nintendo release garbage spec hardware and fans praise the hardware while condemning better hardware from the competitors. Nintendo continues to release a new controller for every console release while Sony and MS refine what is KNOWN to work. The Wii controller was a curse to gaming but fortunately we have moved away from that trash of an input device. I recall the Wii was going to steal FPS away from Sony and MS because the controller is equal or better than the mouse. LMAO. The crap fans say is magically astounding. Then the WiiU was released with a stupid "dual screen". Fans praised the "innovation" of the screen and how it would change gaming. Not only was the screen useless it also sabotaged gameplay with Nintendo forcing users to needlessly interact with the screen to play a game that does not benefit from its implementation. Now they are releasing WiiU 1.2. Not only is it marginally to less capable than the WiiU its significantly weaker than the Xone and PS4. The Pro and Scorpio is more next gen to their predecessors than the Switch is to the WiiU. And here as standard ritualistic practice the fans praise it. We even have the moronic argument that third parties are trash but at the same time Nintendo is boasting that its going to have stronger third party support. Both comments are equally comical.

The Switch release cannot come any sooner.

Good points!

OT: Switch isn't build much confidence, let's hope this supposed "unified" focus well developed!

Agree 100%.

And their 3rd party software lineup usually sucks

@firedguy33: not always.

They've had some fun stuff as of some of the time.

Compared with Nintendo, MS and Sony are leaps and bounds ahead when it comes to delivering a product. What did the Big N have to offer this holiday season? A short shipped/produced collection of 20+ year old games was all because its flagship console has failed. People would have purchased the mini nes yet, like the buffoons they are, the ball was dropped. Guess what? Even though the PS4 and X1 sell quite well, I could walk into Anystore U.S.A. and find one. Nintendo? Nope.

Dragon Quest VII, SMT IV Apocalypse, Harvest Moon Skytree Village, Pokémon Sun and Moon.

really you know with a rasberry pie, and a little bit of know how. You can basically make you're own classic system for under 100 dollars. I know piracy isn't a good thing, but snes/genesis games have been sold enough times over I wouldn't say downloading them is hurting any real developers any more. They are legacy products for systems that aren't supported any more.

Indeed a better suggestion.

People say that competition is good as it forces companies to improve their products or services. However, for some reason, Nintendo is immune to this.

Polygon was also the site which sent a complete dick head to preview rock band 4 and all he did was sit on his own in bewilderment pretentiously quoting nonsense that he thought made him sound intelligent and lamenting the idea of music games. He was above it all, and us, for liking them.

Never mind that these events are exclusive and gamers would have killed to have been there, and that people who actually like rock music would have been better suited to go and actually appreciated the opportunity, polygon sent the kind of knob who thought he was the story despite being an anonymous over entitled goon. He still writes for them today.

Yeah **** polygon and the horse they rode in on.

I never suggested that Sony and MS are perfect, but I would argue that they are more competent in their business acumen than Nintendo could possibly hope to be at this point. When you have Sony and MS, two companies that (by your admission) hold first and third party attempts that are of much lower quality (which I disagree with, actually), yet they are beating Nintendo.....well, there's your proof. Something is lacking far past what Sony and MS are doing when such developmental talent and a legacy of titles can't beat them.

There's a reason Sony and MS's systems are performing better than Nintendo. From having developed their online infrastructure properly over the years, to affording a wide breadth of diversification in their libraries (which your tastes hold no bearing upon), to being in more direct contact with their user-base (FF VII, Last Guardian) and not taking such a contemptuous and neglectful attitude towards them, to actually having product on the shelves to satiate consumer demand upon release instead of constantly suffering the same issues time and again (Amiibo, Gamecube controller adapter, NES Mini), to marketing better. This whole narrative of "brainwashed consumers" is a line that's so trite and cliche that it's what is truly laughable, and is always what Nintendo apologists resort to. No, of course not.....it's never Nintendo's fault, it's always the consumers' stupidity and blind following for their competitors that is to blame. Right. If we could just recognize the brilliance of Nintendo, all would be grand!

When are people going to wake up and start holding this company accountable?

You said to another poster you want Sony to be Sony, MS to be MS, and Nintendo to be Nintendo. I want Nintendo to be Nintendo also, but to a degree. This is getting past the point of subjectivity. Nintendo is objectively declining. Their consoles are fading into irrelevancy given their trends (with the Wii as an exception). Their library is shrinking more and more into the niche and is (IMO) not nearly up to par with the best of their past efforts. SMG is the last game they've made that defined Nintendo to a completely different level from others for me, but that was years ago. Can I say I want them to remain this way? No. I want them to turn it around and succeed. Yet they continually **** up, and quite frankly, they deserve to be exactly in the place they are now. They neglect to pay heed to the desires of gamers, they neglect the western markets in terms of taste, they implement the most asinine of policies again and again, and when they don't, its incompetence that rears its head. I've very little sympathy for this company, which is hard as it holds a dear place in my heart for it is them whom defined me as a gamer so long ago. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Ninty.

@MirkoS77: Consoles are fading bro. Look at the mid-gen upgrades these systems are getting. Look at the declining sales for big titles like Titanfall 2 and the lowest CoD sales for their newest release.

Wii U was a disaster, no apologist would ever admit that. Don't lower yourself to use such terminology like a troll for everybody who has differing opinions from what you believe. Switch is the right path for Nintendo going forward, and for them to try to compete directly with those shit shows would also end up a disaster, not only for Nintendo, but for everyone who games.

Anyone who wants Nintendo to join the bro market was never a true fan of the company to begin with.

I never claimed anyone a troll, please stop misrepresenting my position.

But why shouldn't Nintendo address the bro market? I grew up playing games called 007 Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (SNES), Eternal Darkness, among others. Games that by any measure not only define "bro market", but were downright foundational in establishing them. 007 itself was of monumental importance in bringing FPSes to consoles. I've always felt that anyone who states Nintendo has no business in the bro market has ignored (or is ignorant of) Nintendo's gaming history and their role in being instrumental in defining it. Sony and MS simply picked up Nintendo's fumble.

I don't even need to read the OP to agree with the topic title.

I love some damn Nintendo games, probably always will as long as their bigger releases maintain their quality, but Nintendo has been shooting themselves in the foot for two decades now and there are no signs of them stopping soon.

Bro this, bro that. Nintendo used to have diversity, plenty of third party support and hardware that was competitive. They don't have that shit now, and for a long time it's mainly been games that are very much intended appeal to children or very casual stuff for people who aren't really into games at all that they've been putting out.

People who keep saying that Nintendo should appeal to kids because kids like kids games must have forgotten what it's like to be one growing up. Tell me: Which of you so called Nintendo fans wanted to stay kids when you were kids? In my experience most kids look at older kids and what they're into and get interested in that, because they don't want to be kids. They want to be teenagers, and then they want to be adults.

And like so many people have said before: Kids get into gaming on phones and tablets now. This is where you'll also find the casual gamers.

This is Nintendo's dilemma.

Asking Nintendo to be like Sony and MS is like asking Matt Groening to make Simpsons more like Family Guy, which spelled disaster.

Sony still attempts to make fp games, and some of them are very good. Microsoft has all but given up doing things directly themselves other than making hardware.

This industry is in real trouble, part of which are reasons I stated earlier. Why are the console market leaders making mid-season upgrades when the games that are coming out on them take ten years to make? Why are 90% of games coming out now absolute rubbish? Why are Sony and Microsoft given free passes when they simply make systems and do little to nothing else for the entire generation? Why are gamers ok with the nonsense that's being fed to them, like Star Wars Battlefront Season Passes, yearly roster updates for sports titles, shitty sequel after shitty sequel? Games that are always online. Why aren't developers making new games instead of simply raising resolutions and slapping a "remaster" tag on gen six and seven games? Dirty micro-transactions and unfinished games being released. Buggy assed games.

Why is all that forgiven so easily, and every little move made by Nintendo is held under a magnifying glass of scrutiny? Seems like some lazy scapegoating going on to me. Again, I've never said Nintendo is perfect, and they always get called out for their shit by everyone, but Sony and Microsoft get away with so much bullshit and no one ever calls them out on it.

There's absolutely no reason to gloss over the problems over at Sony or Microsoft. They're quite obvious, and I'd say that those are signs of an industry crash. The PC is the only refuge and safe-haven today as video game consoles are facing obsolescence.

@emgesp: of course they can. Nintendo can never compete with the bigger two (Sony, and Microsoft). They don't need to be successful.

Nintendo has to compete with Sony and MS because they already are.

We can agree on something, it seems. People would rather focus on Nintendo's shortcomings while pretending Sony and Microsoft are just great.

If someone doesn't step up and try a different formula there will be another crash. I get so sick of simpletons who think everything is okey dokey, and say things like "you don't have to buy the next CoD if you don't want to" like doing that will save the industry from and implosion. Or they point to a few indie titles and say everything is fine.

Shit started getting really bad last gen with the success of CoD and online gaming, third party multiplats overtook exclusives, so most companies decided to fall asleep at the wheel and let those carry their devices. Now with the eight gen here the damage is obvious.

@MirkoS77: they are, because it's a business. But they will almost always end up in third place (#3).

In business, it's always wise to stay in the game and not be crushed by a bigger competitor, to the point where Nintendo says "I don't want to make consoles any longer, it's not worth it."

I don't understand why Nintendo is always viewed the loser or incapable. They have the resources, talent, legacy, and IPs to dominate. The reason they're unable is because of philosophy and poor management. I remember a time when Nintendo was a behemoth who meant business in everything they did, who was ambitious. It was only when Iwata took over that Nintendo gradually became this meek, timid, incapable company so many seem to hold no confidence in whatsoever.

They are an absolute monster of potential held on a leash by inept management. Other companies would KILL to have what they do.

@MirkoS77: How can you not see Sony and Microsoft are destroying gaming with their corporate greed. Look around you, they are killing gaming. They are milking people for all their worth, they seem to have no standards and allow companies to run wild on their platforms.

Oh, give me a break. Nintendo's one of the greediest companies out there.

@MirkoS77: How so?

@iandizion713: Amiibos. Charging for A/C adapters for the 3DS. Overcharging for and keeping the prices of their games high. Tying accounts to hardware so as to able to charge people over and over and over again for games they've bought many times over (for those dumb enough to do it). I'm not saying Sony and MS are innocent, but Nintendo's certainly not either.

@MirkoS77: How are Amiibos greed? Its content you can buy, sell, trade, gifts, or share. A/C adapter was to meet a price and help the environment some. How do they overcharge when so many of their games can be had at great prices? Nintendo is one of only companies who gives people 100% backward compatibility and lets them carry Virtual Console content from a previous gen device to current gen.

You think developers love how Sony and Microsoft have grown their fans to expect cheap prices and now they cant make money and are flopping left and right? How many games have we had flop this year alone? How does this benifit the consumer in the long run? Your games have no trade value, companies losing millions of dollars, and creativity is taking a major blow.

These companies offer disgusting DLC, damn lotto grab bags. Over-hyped marketed games from developers with no track records, online fees for a service you barley use and so called "free" games you barely play. They dont let you carry over your virtual console games, nor all your last gen games, they charge you for them all over again.

Amiibos tie minimalist (but not irrelevant) content and features to plastic toys that have to abide by that toy's economic dictates. For the DLC you could get on 10 Amiibos would cost you $10 in the traditional model, yet will cost you $130+. Not greedy? They don't even offer an option of content/features alone, that should tell you enough right there about their M.O. A/C adapters cost cents on the dollar to manufacture and include (which Nintendo's been doing for quite some time, curiously now it's only to "meet a price" and be environmentally friendly.....sure). They exclude it and charge us $15 for something ESSENTIAL to run the system. Greed. As for accounts.

@MirkoS77: Thats not true, one Amiibo works on tons of games. No, A/C adapters dont cost cents. Else companies would sell third party ones cheap. And again, its dlc you can buy, sell, trade, gift, or share. If you dont like the content or Amiibo, either dont buy it, or sell it, etc. Sad to say you cant do that with other companies DLC. Dont sound too greedy to me. Amiibo is an investment for both the consumer and the company. It takes a balance approach. Both sides compromise for the greater good.

....and that operates under the assumption that everyone owns all Nintendo games. What if I only own a few? Would you then concede Amiibos value then decreases? I also don't want toys. Why don't they offer an option? Can you give me a valid reason? It's because they want to force people to pay more. A/C adapters are very cheap to produce, third parties sell that at cost to make a profit.

@MirkoS77: Then you decide whether youd like to make such an investment. They dont offer an option because itd be bad for both sides. Nintendo would be forced to lower the price and make less money and the consumer would then have to take less content at a higher price while at the same time losing the benefit of a physical DLC.

No third parties dont, third parties produce cheaper product to get a lower price. Its so they can compete with official products. Or they charge more and offer higher quality.

No, only one.

@MirkoS77: Two sides would be affected as i stated above. Everything has a price. Nintendo would be forced to lower the price and make less money and the consumer would then have to take less content at a higher price while at the same time losing the benefit of a physical DLC. Nintendo would not be able to offer both, one would have to give. And of course in todays world, the physical would have to give.

Actually I take it back. Nintendo offering an option to get only Amiibo content would benefit both. Nintendo's already selling Amiibos. What would they have to lower the price on? People would continue to buy them, but in addition, they'd get people like me that would buy just the content at a cheaper price. That's extra profit. I won't buy the toys, so as long as there's no option otherwise, they're excluding an entire subset of consumers who want the content but not the toy.

They offer both, it's win win for all. But they don't because.....well, only Nintendo knows. Why would physical have to give? As if we don't have physical games alongside the same digital ones.

@iandizion713: would you stop editing to add points to your posts after I address them please?

@MirkoS77: Lets say we both want Kirby extra content. The Kirby Amiibo cost $12.99 minus tax. Hes compatible with 20 games so far. Most those games are skins. So thats 20 skins. So lets say each skin is worth $1. For the price of $12.99 we are getting $20 worth of skins. Now...take away the Amiibo, lets say he cost $5 bucks to make and ship. Thats $8 Nintendo is selling us the content for. Amiibos benefit us in low price, and benefit Nintendo in brand recognition.

The real reason Nintendo has shipping issues with Amiibos? Cause they dont make much money off them and must be careful to not oversaturate consumers and stores. We know this from Disney. Yet they want the brand recognition in stores. Its a double edge sword. They also sell DLC that you can only get digitally, but its exclusive, so doesnt effect Amiibo.

Have you read this? From Kimishima:

"A challenge that we’re facing right now is, our earliest goal for the amiibo was to have these connected to software and have them enhance the play experience for the consumer, and for other consumers to say ‘I see my friend using this amiibo with that software and it looks great,’ and again increase that attractiveness of that combination. What we’re seeing instead is that the Amiibo are being picked up more as a collection item at this point, rather than, say, as an interactive item with software. And so we haven’t really established them as an enhancement for all of our software at this point."

People who are buying Amiibos are predominantly doing so for the figures, not the content. That means those who want the content but not the toys are being excluded. Money left on the table by Nintendo. If they offered just the content at reduced cost on the eshop alongside Amiibos on the shelves....that's all additional profit on top of what they're already making. You can argue the value of what's on the Amiibos, but what's inarguable is that there's a lot of consumers out there who want it without the toy so aren't buying it because they have no option.

As for shortages, please. "Oversaturate"?? Are you not aware that these are being sold upon release for exponentially more than MSRP, and that these problems last for months? Nintendo's simply incompetent in understanding production and shipping allocations, that's all there is to it. If it is artificial shortages, they have no idea how to walk that delicate line between increasing demand, and getting people so frustrated that they throw up their hands and say, "to hell with this!".

@MirkoS77: This is a major problem with Nintendo that people dont like to discuss. Scalping and collecting, etc. Ive stated best way to deal with it is to go digital. Gamers arent ready though. Stores arent ready, and its clear Nintendo isnt ready. Nintendo could offer the Amiibo content digitally, but again as stated, one would have to go. They cant live side by side.

Im guessing your not aware of what happened in 2016, Amiibos being sold brand new from retailers at $2.99-5.99. You will rarely see them above MSRP. Only reason you see some on ebay, etc is cause it cost bout $3 to ship it and you have to pay Ebay 10%. Scalpers arent too smart. Most are victim and will actually barely make any money for the time spent scalping.

You'll have to let somebody answer that who likes Sony and/or Microsoft, as I don't. I focus on the shortcomings of all three - although Nintendo and Microsoft are the worst in my book. The crash is underway regardless of what any of the big three do, though. There is no other formula as far as I know except for the already established trinity of tablets, smartphones and PC:s.