Microsoft stumbles over 09 lineup on X-Play

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

The Cell (yes I did mispell it before) is the name of the CPU (which was co-developed with IBM and Toshiba) in the PS3. It consists of 8 SPEs which mean Synchronous Processing Element. 1 is completely switched off, another designated for the OS. They are each a compartment of the CPU, assigned to specific alogorithms and calculations. But each SPE on it's own isn't capable of running a computer on it's own. Like I said, they are specialized divisions of the Cell processor as a whole.

Have I missed anything so far?

*EDIT* Saw your later post (quoting yourself): You're using Wiki as a source?? The online site that allows public access for anybody to input info? Hardly a credible source? Hell, YOU'RE probably the one who entered that BS line about the Cell being "an 8 core microprocessor" :roll::roll:

Steppy_76

Having said that, the spirit of your post is mostly spot on, it really depends on how narrow or broad your definition of a processing core is.

While you are correct in the SPE being a processor core, you don't know what you are talking about as not all core are created equal. The PPE must feed the SPE's tasks to do, they can't just assign themselves tasks as they see fit. Also with a SPE being dedicated to the OS that takes away two threads that games can use. Theoretically the cell in the PS3 could run 9 threads, but realworld takes two of those away, and at least one of the threads on the PPE is going to be doing nothing but giving tasks to the SPE's.Steppy_76

Steppy, I NEVER disputed that the Cell's SPE's are capable of running calculations. That's their purpose. And we both agree that the SPE's are designated to specific tasks. Essentially being divisions of the whole of the calculations that run the games. But how is a "Core" defined? I would say by the simple criteria that it, unto itself is a fully self running processor covering all the range of calculations needed to run a machine (PC, console, or whatnot) independently.

To put it more simply, of one of those SPE's were seperated, could it run a PC on it's own? The Xenon processor is based on 3 actual cores (based on IBM's PowerPC architecture), each one could actually run a PC or console on it's own (as that's what used to be in Mac computers before th switch to Intel), but in the console configuration, are designed to run in tandem.

Going by your second quote where I highlighted, the SPEs are unable to assign their own tasks. They require what the PPE, the central part of the core, gives them. Each core of the Xenon processor is capable of assigning their own tasks. They are each a self reliant processor.

I would use the analogy of an office. The Cell is one company that has these specialized divisions, which are offices in the main building. Each being very good at their specific tasks, which contributes to the companies operation, but not being able to function as their own company. The Xenon on the other hand is 3 companies, each that could operate independantly in the market, but working together in a partnership for a more effective business model.

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"][QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]Adobe, the cell used in the PS3 does indeed have 9 cores on the die. 1 PPE(a general purpose core), and 8 SPE's(specialized cores excelling at floating point math). There is no stipulation that says a core has to be a general purpose core nor that is has to be completely independant of any other cores within a die.

Having said that, the spirit of your post is mostly spot on, it really depends on how narrow or broad your definition of a processing core is.

AdobeArtist

While you are correct in the SPE being a processor core, you don't know what you are talking about as not all core are created equal. The PPE must feed the SPE's tasks to do, they can't just assign themselves tasks as they see fit. Also with a SPE being dedicated to the OS that takes away two threads that games can use. Theoretically the cell in the PS3 could run 9 threads, but realworld takes two of those away, and at least one of the threads on the PPE is going to be doing nothing but giving tasks to the SPE's.Steppy_76

Steppy, I NEVER disputed that the Cell's SPE's are capable of running calculations. That's their purpose. And we both agree that the SPE's are designated to specific tasks. Essentially being divisions of the whole of the calculations that run the games. But how is a "Core" defined? I would say by the simple criteria that it, unto itself is a fully self running processor covering all the range of calculations needed to run a machine (PC, console, or whatnot) independently.

To put it more simply, of one of those SPE's were seperated, could it run a PC on it's own? The Xenon processor is based on 3 actual cores (based on IBM's PowerPC architecture), each one could actually run a PC or console on it's own (as that's what used to be in Mac computers before th switch to Intel), but in the console configuration, are designed to run in tandem.

Going by your second quote where I highlighted, the SPEs are unable to assign their own tasks. They require what the PPE, the central part of the core, gives them. Each core of the Xenon processor is capable of assigning their own tasks. They are each a self reliant processor.

I would use the analogy of an office. The Cell is one company that has these specialized divisions, which are offices in the main building. Each being very good at their specific tasks, which contributes to the companies operation, but not being able to function as their own company. The Xenon on the other hand is 3 companies, each that could operate independantly in the market, but working together in a partnership for a more effective business model.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"]While you are correct in the SPE being a processor core, you don't know what you are talking about as not all core are created equal. The PPE must feed the SPE's tasks to do, they can't just assign themselves tasks as they see fit. Also with a SPE being dedicated to the OS that takes away two threads that games can use. Theoretically the cell in the PS3 could run 9 threads, but realworld takes two of those away, and at least one of the threads on the PPE is going to be doing nothing but giving tasks to the SPE's.WutTimeIsIt

Steppy, I NEVER disputed that the Cell's SPE's are capable of running calculations. That's their purpose. And we both agree that the SPE's are designated to specific tasks. Essentially being divisions of the whole of the calculations that run the games. But how is a "Core" defined? I would say by the simple criteria that it, unto itself is a fully self running processor covering all the range of calculations needed to run a machine (PC, console, or whatnot) independently.

To put it more simply, of one of those SPE's were seperated, could it run a PC on it's own? The Xenon processor is based on 3 actual cores (based on IBM's PowerPC architecture), each one could actually run a PC or console on it's own (as that's what used to be in Mac computers before th switch to Intel), but in the console configuration, are designed to run in tandem.

Going by your second quote where I highlighted, the SPEs are unable to assign their own tasks. They require what the PPE, the central part of the core, gives them. Each core of the Xenon processor is capable of assigning their own tasks. They are each a self reliant processor.

I would use the analogy of an office. The Cell is one company that has these specialized divisions, which are offices in the main building. Each being very good at their specific tasks, which contributes to the companies operation, but not being able to function as their own company. The Xenon on the other hand is 3 companies, each that could operate independantly in the market, but working together in a partnership for a more effective business model.

PS3 has one CPU core and 360 has 3 CPU cores, that is the factsobamanian

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

The PPE is a dual issue, dual threaded, in-order processor. Unlike many modern processors the hardware architecture is an "old ****" RISC design, i.e. the PPE has a relatively simple architecture.

So, the SPUs are not CPU cores with the same functionality as the 360 CPU cores

I think any further debate ends here, since after those shocking to PS3 owners news, we simply can't tell if 8 SPUs + a real CPU are better than 3 real CPUs in real world game applications

obamanian

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

The PPE is a dual issue, dual threaded, in-order processor. Unlike many modern processors the hardware architecture is an "old ****" RISC design, i.e. the PPE has a relatively simple architecture.

So, the SPUs are not CPU cores with the same functionality as the 360 CPU cores

I think any further debate ends here, since after those shocking to PS3 owners news, we simply can't tell if 8 SPUs + a real CPU are better than 3 real CPUs in real world game applications

WutTimeIsIt

I have seen it called "Units" instead of "Elements" many times, so who cares ? The meaning is about the same

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"][QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]Adobe, the cell used in the PS3 does indeed have 9 cores on the die. 1 PPE(a general purpose core), and 8 SPE's(specialized cores excelling at floating point math). There is no stipulation that says a core has to be a general purpose core nor that is has to be completely independant of any other cores within a die.

Having said that, the spirit of your post is mostly spot on, it really depends on how narrow or broad your definition of a processing core is.

AdobeArtist

While you are correct in the SPE being a processor core, you don't know what you are talking about as not all core are created equal. The PPE must feed the SPE's tasks to do, they can't just assign themselves tasks as they see fit. Also with a SPE being dedicated to the OS that takes away two threads that games can use. Theoretically the cell in the PS3 could run 9 threads, but realworld takes two of those away, and at least one of the threads on the PPE is going to be doing nothing but giving tasks to the SPE's.Steppy_76

Steppy, I NEVER disputed that the Cell's SPE's are capable of running calculations. That's their purpose. And we both agree that the SPE's are designated to specific tasks. Essentially being divisions of the whole of the calculations that run the games. But how is a "Core" defined? I would say by the simple criteria that it, unto itself is a fully self running processor covering all the range of calculations needed to run a machine (PC, console, or whatnot) independently.

To put it more simply, of one of those SPE's were seperated, could it run a PC on it's own? The Xenon processor is based on 3 actual cores (based on IBM's PowerPC architecture), each one could actually run a PC or console on it's own (as that's what used to be in Mac computers before th switch to Intel), but in the console configuration, are designed to run in tandem.

Going by your second quote where I highlighted, the SPEs are unable to assign their own tasks. They require what the PPE, the central part of the core, gives them. Each core of the Xenon processor is capable of assigning their own tasks. They are each a self reliant processor.

I would use the analogy of an office. The Cell is one company that has these specialized divisions, which are offices in the main building. Each being very good at their specific tasks, which contributes to the companies operation, but not being able to function as their own company. The Xenon on the other hand is 3 companies, each that could operate independantly in the market, but working together in a partnership for a more effective business model.

[QUOTE="obamanian"]PS3 has one CPU core and 360 has 3 CPU cores, that is the factsWutTimeIsIt

[QUOTE="Stiggsx"]

Microsoft always delivers

Like he said they under promise and overdeliver unlike Sony who does the exact opposite

AdobeArtist

Like in my earlier metaphor. If Sony was playing a game of poker against Microsoft, they wouldn't be doing to well.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"][QUOTE="Stiggsx"]

Microsoft always delivers

Like he said they under promise and overdeliver unlike Sony who does the exact opposite

hayato_

Like in my earlier metaphor. If Sony was playing a game of poker against Microsoft, they wouldn't be doing to well.

They do-

http://www.videogamer.com/news/06-01-2009-10289.html

"2009 will be the year of big, exclusive PS3 titles. Just to name a few, the year will start with the much anticipated launch of Killzone 2, followed by a fresh, new take on the superhero/anti-hero open sandbox genre inFamous, a mind-bending thriller Heavy Rain, a massive 256 player simultaneous online shooter MAG, an augmented reality, virtual pet in your room experience EyePet, and some more big titles that we have not even announced yet."

One of them had better be by Team ICO :x

Microsoft always delivers

Like he said they under promise and overdeliver unlike Sony who does the exact opposite

Like in my earlier metaphor. If Sony was playing a game of poker against Microsoft, they wouldn't be doing to well.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"][QUOTE="Stiggsx"]

Microsoft always delivers

Like he said they under promise and overdeliver unlike Sony who does the exact opposite

Bazooka_4ME

Like in my earlier metaphor. If Sony was playing a game of poker against Microsoft, they wouldn't be doing to well.

1:51 into the video:" We don't comment on our lineup until later in the year"

translation: Wait for E3

problem solved

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

Xbox 360 has a stunning lineup for 2009, full of huge 50-100 hour deep games and vast open next gen game worlds

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26715971&tag=topics;title

I count 109 games !!! Of course more will come and i have forgot many i guess

Chutebox

Hell, by this logic Wii is the console to own this year (not a hit on Wii, just making a point).

I patiently await your usual response.

Fable 2 is the best graphics! Look at t3h l3aves!!!

1:51 into the video:" We don't comment on our lineup until later in the year"

translation: Wait for E3

problem solved

lafigueroa

[QUOTE="lafigueroa"]

1:51 into the video:" We don't comment on our lineup until later in the year"

translation: Wait for E3

problem solved

lawlessx

1:51 into the video:" We don't comment on our lineup until later in the year"

translation: Wait for E3

problem solved

not good.

cept for Halo.