Latest RUMOR: Scarlet does better ray-tracing compared to Sony's PS5...

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Avatar image for boxrekt
#1 Edited by BoxRekt (2024 posts) -

...But PlayStation 5 outperforms Xbox Scarlet by 10-15%

With the talks about MS having hardware ray-tracing which would eat CUs and Sony possibly only being software, it's possible.

Over the past few days, there have been reports of PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett performances and specs. Some reports claim Xbox Scarlett specs are more powerful while others say the opposite is true. To stir up discussing and speculations, another insider report has come to light.

PlayStation 5 is more powerful than Xbox Scarlett hardware. The performance difference is 10-15%, report claims. PlayStation 5 outperforms Microsoft’s next Xbox but it doesn’t do well when handling ray-tracing.

Developers familiar with devkits say both PS5 and Xbox Scarlett mimic hardware architecture. But Xbox Scarlett does better ray-tracing compared to Sony’s PS5.

Don’t Believe The Claims Just Yet?

First of all, this source seemingly has no history of providing correct inside information. There is no reason to believe PS5 is more powerful than Xbox Scarlett but there is more to this.

In the past few weeks, a couple of questions have popped up multiple times, which console is more powerful? And does that even matter?

According to Microsoft, the next-generation Xbox will do 4K at up to 120FPS. The custom SSD designed for Xbox Scarlett specs is 40% faster than Xbox One S performance. AMD is proving 8-core zen 2 with Navi graphics. The PS5 specs are the same, 8-core Zen 2 Navi graphics. SONY already showed super quick load times of PlayStation 5.

Both consoles are using pretty much the same core components from AMD. Don’t expect PS5 and Xbox Scarlett to have a big difference in terms of performance. Since they are coming from the same parts bin, the difference should be minor depending on how these parts are put together.

Microsoft already confirmed 4K/60 fps with the specs they are using for the new Xbox so expect PS5 specs to be able to do the same.

We have heard many rumors from developers, some favor PS5 while others favor the performance Xbox Scarlett is offering. Matt Booty himself went on to say that Xbox Scarlett will “absolutely” be the most powerful console on the market. But Phil Spencer not once said they have the most powerful console during E3 2019 presentation.

The fact of the matter is, no one for sure knows which console is more powerful. The only one who knows what’s going on is AMD, the company which provides parts for PS5 and Xbox Scarlett.

https://segmentnext.com/2019/06/25/playstation-5-and-xbox-scarlett-specs-leaks/

As with any rumor, take with a grain of salt but if it turns out to be true what would you think?

If MS is going for higher Ray Tracing capability and Sony is going more raw power do you prefer one approach over the other?

Personally, I already speculated this exact situation.

Now that Lockhart isn't a thing anymore MS can't simply just add more power to Scarlet to beat PS5 in power because they have to consider cost. One SKU means all or nothing, get it right or suffer.

For Both Scarlet and PS5 to release at the expected $499 retail sacrifices will have to be made depending on the tech each company wants to push more.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#2 Posted by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@boxrekt: The limitation is TDP and TSMC's fab cost.

From https://www.anandtech.com/show/14579/all-ryzen-qa-with-amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su

David Wang, AMD:We started RDNA before the Sony engagement. I think RDNA is revolutionary, and it is very flexible in terms of being able to be customized for different types of workloads.

NAVI was designed before the Sony engagement, hence debunking

https://segmentnext.com/2018/06/13/amd-navi-sony-playstation-5/

SegmentNext's AMD Navi Is Being Created For Sony PlayStation 5, Just Like Vega For Apple <-------Debunked narrative by David Wang of AMD

Avatar image for Pedro
#3 Posted by Pedro (35635 posts) -

Y'all need to let it go. The difference between the two console is going to be negligible.

Avatar image for Archangel3371
#4 Edited by Archangel3371 (28544 posts) -

I fully expect both systems to be on par with each other and any differences to be too minor to be concerned over.

Avatar image for Telekill
#5 Posted by Telekill (8589 posts) -

All next gen rumors are bull until we get finalized specs. Not sure why everyone is trying to throw shade one way or the other at this point.

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
#6 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (19272 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Y'all need to let it go. The difference between the two console is going to be negligible.

Fanboys

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#7 Edited by BassMan (10665 posts) -

What does it matter which one does RT better? They are both going to be shit anyway. LOL

Avatar image for Syn_Valence
#8 Posted by Syn_Valence (1790 posts) -

I miss the old crazy days of the 360 and ps3.

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#9 Posted by lundy86_4 (53834 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Y'all need to let it go. The difference between the two console is going to be negligible.

Exactly this.

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#10 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

Avatar image for Gatygun
#11 Posted by Gatygun (1593 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Y'all need to let it go. The difference between the two console is going to be negligible.

to real to real.

Avatar image for BassMan
#12 Posted by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

It will make racing games better though....

Loading Video...

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#13 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@BassMan: Corsa is arse on Xbox so that doesn't matter to me, they should fix the bugs first before worrying about tracing the rays :(

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#14 Posted by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: Corsa is arse on Xbox so that doesn't matter to me, they should fix the bugs first before worrying about tracing the rays :(

Well, you are playing it on a console. Got to keep the expectations in check. It is great on PC.

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#15 Edited by mrbojangles25 (44381 posts) -

Consoles makers are baiting you fools with ray tracing just like they did with 4K. And just like with 4K, they won't be doing it right.

Have fun getting hooked.

@Pedro said:

Y'all need to let it go. The difference between the two console is going to be negligible.

Pretty much.

@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

It will make racing games better though....

and Minecraft! It will make Minecraft better! :P

Loading Video...

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#16 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Avatar image for BassMan
#17 Posted by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Are the bugs in the superior PC version or specific to the Xbox port?

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#18 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@BassMan: Don't know? As i don't know what bugs the PC version had/has. But at least you agree no matter how much you throw at your PC there is still bugs.

So much for being superior huh.

Avatar image for drlostrib
#19 Posted by DrLostRib (5065 posts) -

considering the caveats of that rumor, it doesn't really seem worth considering unless more information comes out

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#20 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

It will make racing games better though....

We can't generalize raster based reflection's quality based on a single devloper team.

Forza Horzion 4's reflections are not blank like KUNOS-Simulazioni Srl's raster efforts.

Avatar image for minishcapper
#21 Posted by minishcapper (37 posts) -

Who is going to buy Scarlett for better raytracing if MS no longer cares about exclusivity but Sony and Nintendo still does? I mean, if I want the best raytracing possible I'll buy the MS games that make use of it on PC.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#22 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@BassMan:

Loading Video...

Gran Turismo Developer Polyphony Digital Are Working on Real-Time Ray Tracing tech

At SIGGRAPH Asia 2018, Polyphony Digital confirmed that they were experimenting with real-time ray tracing, developing their own path tracing solution to offer accurate reflections that offer a notable graphical leap over the pre-baked reflections that are used in their recent games.

In their demo, which is available to view below, dynamic/moving lighting is used to see these reflections in action. Two things are worth noting here, first, that Polyphony is working on real-time ray tracing and second, that Polyphony Digital only develop games for Sony hardware. The studio is most famous for their Gran Turismo series, which has been exclusive to Sony platforms since the PS1.

Does this mean that the PS5 will be capable of real-time ray tracing? Perhaps, but simply working on a new graphical technique does not guarantee that it will be used on Sony's next console. That being said, Sony is known for adding custom hardware to their recent PlayStation silicon, with Sony's PS4 Pro featuring specialised hardware for Checkerboard rendering, which is designed to help produce higher resolution images with a lower performance cost.

Sony is again playing lose with "raytracing" from "cheaper rays" methods.

Avatar image for BassMan
#23 Posted by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily: Bugs can happen in any game regardless of platform. However, the PC version of the game is good. The game is made by a PC developer. So, it doesn't surprise me that the laster race Xbox version is shit.

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#24 Posted by Vaidream45 (2034 posts) -

Neither is going to do ray tracing very well. Let’s just be realistic here. Also slight power advantages won’t matter. It’s all about the games. Microsoft has the most powerful console out right now yet is only selling a fraction of what Nintendo is selling and Nintendo has crap for power....but they gots da games and that’s what pushes consoles to succeed.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#25 Posted by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@vaidream45 said:

Neither is going to do ray tracing very well. Let’s just be realistic here. Also slight power advantages won’t matter. It’s all about the games. Microsoft has the most powerful console out right now yet is only selling a fraction of what Nintendo is selling and Nintendo has crap for power....but they gots da games and that’s what pushes consoles to succeed.

Nintendo Swtich has mobility form factor not just hardware compute power.

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#26 Posted by Vaidream45 (2034 posts) -

@ronvalencia: yup

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#27 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@BassMan said:

@i_p_daily: Bugs can happen in any game regardless of platform. However, the PC version of the game is good. The game is made by a PC developer. So, it doesn't surprise me that the laster race Xbox version is shit.

Hey if you hermits bought the game instead of pirating it they wouldn't need to rush job console ports to make some money.

Laster race huh, well how's RDR2 on the PC....

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#28 Posted by tdkmillsy (3137 posts) -

I'd commend Microsoft for trying to be different and utilising latest tech better, however if its at the expense of brute force I'm not sure they chose the correct path.

Guess it depends on how good the ray-tracing is and the impact on the performance overall.

Kind of don't want this to be the case, but would explain the other rumours out there.

Avatar image for ButDuuude
#29 Posted by ButDuuude (1427 posts) -

Microsoft had some people talk about the next xbox at E3 without revealing much, but you guys already know that it’s better than the PS5. You should play the lottery.

Avatar image for davillain-
#30 Posted by DaVillain- (38094 posts) -

I'm just gonna take Ed Boon's tweet and he's right.

The man is right! How could you know? Thank you Ed Boon! I’m so sick of people jumping into conclusions without all the specs fully being disclosed! Do not take these rumors/speculations seriously, wait until the consoles release and we all can finally go from their.

Avatar image for BassMan
#31 Edited by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:
@BassMan said:

@i_p_daily: Bugs can happen in any game regardless of platform. However, the PC version of the game is good. The game is made by a PC developer. So, it doesn't surprise me that the laster race Xbox version is shit.

Hey if you hermits bought the game instead of pirating it they wouldn't need to rush job console ports to make some money.

Laster race huh, well how's RDR2 on the PC....

Piracy argument is bullshit. How many other games besides RDR2 make PC laster race these days? There are a lot more games on console that qualify for laster race... Fortnite, PUBG, Warframe, Minecraft, Hollow Knight, World of Tanks, ARK: Survival Evolved, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally, Divinity Original Sin 1+2, Stardew Valley, Undertale, Smite, Subnautica, Human Fall Flat, A Hat In Time, Praey For The Gods, Owlboy, Dauntless, The Elder Scrolls Online, etc..

There are few games that don't make it to PC at the same time as consoles. Let's not forget that the PC versions are almost always superior.

So, take that Checkmate and shove it up your ass because....

Loading Video...

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#32 Posted by SolidGame_basic (24459 posts) -

It's about the games...

Avatar image for tormentos
#33 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@boxrekt:

That is more than a week old.

@ronvalencia said:

@boxrekt: The limitation is TDP and TSMC's fab cost.

From https://www.anandtech.com/show/14579/all-ryzen-qa-with-amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su

David Wang, AMD:We started RDNA before the Sony engagement. I think RDNA is revolutionary, and it is very flexible in terms of being able to be customized for different types of workloads.

NAVI was designed before the Sony engagement, hence debunking

Read this thread and read what the hell you just reply.

It has nothing to do with it.

It was claim in a rumor like a week or more that the PS5 was more powerful but Scarlet had better ray tracing.

In what your post proof or disproof that?

You re talking about Navi been made for sony which has nothing to do with the thread in question.

You really need stop bringing irrelevant shit to threads.

@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Come on man i know PC gamer tend to be a bit arrogant about power but you don't need to fork $10,000 for a great PC that is a grose exageration.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#34 Posted by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@boxrekt:

That is more than a week old.

@ronvalencia said:

@boxrekt: The limitation is TDP and TSMC's fab cost.

From https://www.anandtech.com/show/14579/all-ryzen-qa-with-amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su

David Wang, AMD:We started RDNA before the Sony engagement. I think RDNA is revolutionary, and it is very flexible in terms of being able to be customized for different types of workloads.

NAVI was designed before the Sony engagement, hence debunking

Read this thread and read what the hell you just reply.

It has nothing to do with it.

It was claim in a rumor like a week or more that the PS5 was more powerful but Scarlet had better ray tracing.

In what your post proof or disproof that?

You re talking about Navi been made for sony which has nothing to do with the thread in question.

You really need stop bringing irrelevant shit to threads.

Try again.

Avatar image for phbz
#35 Edited by phbz (4669 posts) -

@tormentos: Daily is just making fun of BassMan's trolling. We all know his PC is worth at least $100000.

As for the rumours, if true, it's disappointing. A 10% advantage is negligible for either side and I don't think the RT advantage will translate into anything significant. We need more secret sauce.

Avatar image for davillain-
#37 Posted by DaVillain- (38094 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Who the hell told you, you need to spend $10,000 PC? That is way tooooo much money for a simple gaming rig. $500-$800 can get you a simple rig to play for the right price. PC Enthusiast might spend $10,000 but that's very rare. Like Bass said, you get what you paid for.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#38 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:
@BassMan said:

@i_p_daily: Bugs can happen in any game regardless of platform. However, the PC version of the game is good. The game is made by a PC developer. So, it doesn't surprise me that the laster race Xbox version is shit.

Hey if you hermits bought the game instead of pirating it they wouldn't need to rush job console ports to make some money.

Laster race huh, well how's RDR2 on the PC....

Piracy argument is bullshit. How many other games besides RDR2 make PC laster race these days? There are a lot more games on console that qualify for laster race... Fortnite, PUBG, Warframe, Minecraft, Hollow Knight, World of Tanks, ARK: Survival Evolved, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally, Divinity Original Sin 1+2, Stardew Valley, Undertale, Smite, Subnautica, Human Fall Flat, A Hat In Time, Praey For The Gods, Owlboy, Dauntless, The Elder Scrolls Online, etc..

There are few games that don't make it to PC at the same time as consoles. Let's not forget that the PC versions are almost always superior.

So, take that Checkmate and shove it up your ass because....

Loading Video...

All those games had to be ported so those devs could make some money :(

Stop pirating games and support devs instead of spending millions on your PC :(

You didn't answer my question how is RDR2 working out for you on PC???

Check & mate :)

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#39 Posted by I_P_Daily (12562 posts) -

@davillain- said:
@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Who the hell told you, you need to spend $10,000 PC? That is way tooooo much money for a simple gaming rig. $500-$800 can get you a simple rig to play for the right price. PC Enthusiast might spend $10,000 but that's very rare. Like Bass said, you get what you paid for.

@tormentos said:

@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: So bugs are restricted to consoles now.

Games on your $10,000 PC have bugs and no matter how much you spend that will not change, and the best part is you know it lol.

Come on man i know PC gamer tend to be a bit arrogant about power but you don't need to fork $10,000 for a great PC that is a grose exageration.

How can you not know i'm just taking the piss out of bassboy? I mean the guy below gets it lol.

@phbz said:

@tormentos: Daily is just making fun of BassMan's trolling. We all know his PC is worth at least $100000.

As for the rumours, if true, it's disappointing. A 10% advantage is negligible for either side and I don't think the RT advantage will translate into anything significant. We need more secret sauce.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#40 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -

@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

It will make racing games better though....

Loading Video...

Since when did better reflections make a game better?

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#41 Posted by SecretPolice (35358 posts) -

Where's an.... ...

When you need One. lol :P

Avatar image for Sushiglutton
#42 Edited by Sushiglutton (7264 posts) -

I don't want big corporations to trace my rays, so I guess it's gonna have to be Sony next gen.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#43 Posted by Zero_epyon (13368 posts) -
@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:

@BassMan: Corsa is arse on Xbox so that doesn't matter to me, they should fix the bugs first before worrying about tracing the rays :(

Well, you are playing it on a console. Got to keep the expectations in check. It is great on PC.

lol I was going to say the same thing...

Avatar image for r-gamer
#44 Edited by R-Gamer (630 posts) -

How much can hardware accelerated Raytracing accomplish at this point? One $1500 card makes you drop the res to 1080p. So I'm curious what it can do on a $500 console.

Avatar image for fedor
#45 Posted by Fedor (5344 posts) -

@r-gamer: A 2080 ti will do 1440p/60 fps with RT.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#46 Posted by Xabiss (2896 posts) -

Think I will just wait until the final specs are both released before believing anything. This speculation and rumors is just that.

Avatar image for tormentos
#47 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Try again.

So Beyond3d is wrong because it did an estimate on a console that isn't finish.

Thanks for confirming it.

I will wait for your usual Spin.

Do indie devs have dev kits yet for Project Scarlett? Or is it too early for that?

Chris Charla: I don't think we're talking about dev kit availability right now. I apologise, I can't really amplify anything that was said about Scarlett more than what Phil talked about onstage.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-27-no-plans-to-change-id-xbox-program-for-project-scarlett-says-microsoft-exec

Now this is dodging the question how he doesn't want to confirm indie developer having devkits for scarlets,but look how it wasn't also deny.

Wait didn't some one from MS claim there were no kits out? How come today that is not deny?

Avatar image for cainetao11
#48 Posted by cainetao11 (36829 posts) -

@Telekill: lol you’ve been here long enough to know bro. SW bs, ya know?

Avatar image for BassMan
#49 Posted by BassMan (10665 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:
@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:
@BassMan said:

@i_p_daily: Bugs can happen in any game regardless of platform. However, the PC version of the game is good. The game is made by a PC developer. So, it doesn't surprise me that the laster race Xbox version is shit.

Hey if you hermits bought the game instead of pirating it they wouldn't need to rush job console ports to make some money.

Laster race huh, well how's RDR2 on the PC....

Piracy argument is bullshit. How many other games besides RDR2 make PC laster race these days? There are a lot more games on console that qualify for laster race... Fortnite, PUBG, Warframe, Minecraft, Hollow Knight, World of Tanks, ARK: Survival Evolved, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally, Divinity Original Sin 1+2, Stardew Valley, Undertale, Smite, Subnautica, Human Fall Flat, A Hat In Time, Praey For The Gods, Owlboy, Dauntless, The Elder Scrolls Online, etc..

There are few games that don't make it to PC at the same time as consoles. Let's not forget that the PC versions are almost always superior.

So, take that Checkmate and shove it up your ass because....

Loading Video...

All those games had to be ported so those devs could make some money :(

Stop pirating games and support devs instead of spending millions on your PC :(

You didn't answer my question how is RDR2 working out for you on PC???

Check & mate :)

I see you still have no rebuttal and are just spitting out nonsense.

To answer your question... RDR2 will be glorious on PC unlike the console version. Even the mighty X "most powerful console" is limited to a shit 30fps. LOL

Enjoy those inferior laster race ports. LMAO

@scatteh316 said:
@BassMan said:
@i_p_daily said:

I don't care about tracing the rays. I'm looking forward to the new games it will have, oh wait Xbox has no games lol.

It will make racing games better though....

Since when did better reflections make a game better?

The answer lies within your question.

Avatar image for bluestars
#50 Posted by Bluestars (230 posts) -

Meh nevermind 1080 v 900p

Or who will win next gen power wars with 18 months till release

Xbox one x has held the belt for MS since 2017