Latest RUMOR: Scarlet does better ray-tracing compared to Sony's PS5...

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BassMan

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#101  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17764 Posts

@Pedro: Real time ray tracing still isn't in a state to fully deliver a quality gaming experience. That is why I laugh when I hear talk about comparing RT between the next gen consoles. If a 2080 Ti is shit for RT, what are people expecting from a $500 console in 2020? LOL

A quality gaming experience consists of many of the things you listed. The more boxes that are checked off, the more quality the experience. For me the biggest thing is performance. 60fps is the minimum acceptable for a quality experience. That is why I have shit on the current gen consoles so much because they were handicapped right from the beginning with the shit Jaguar CPUs. This should improve next-gen with Ryzen based CPUs. However, it will still depend on the complexity of the game. Developers who really want to push simulations will be more CPU bound and bottleneck frame rates.

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BoxRekt

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#103  Edited By BoxRekt
Member since 2019 • 2425 Posts
@Pedro said:
@BassMan said:

Maybe because the people bragging actually do have good PCs. PC gamers are not limited to shit hardware like consoles. Any limitations are on the individual and not the PC platform.

One of the limiting factors of PC is that its open.

More specifically devs don't prioritize developing games for the highest end PC GPU and CPU combinations. Because of this most of the power of those expensive PCs gets used for nothing more than extra frames.

Playing Tetris at 100,000 fps is a cool to brag right, but at some point you've got to realize that all the power in your system is being wasted. That's the specific limitation Bassman faces.

Games aren't developed around his 2080TI and no games will come close to doing that until devs start pumping out cross-gen and next gen games for next gen consoles.

Cyberpunk 2077 and Final Fantasy 7 remake are both supposed to be cross gen, so those might be the first games to remove some of the "limiting factors" on his current PC.

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BassMan

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#104  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17764 Posts

@boxrekt said:
@Pedro said:
@BassMan said:

Maybe because the people bragging actually do have good PCs. PC gamers are not limited to shit hardware like consoles. Any limitations are on the individual and not the PC platform.

One of the limiting factors of PC is that its open.

More specifically devs don't prioritize developing games for the highest end PC GPU and CPU combinations. Because of this most of the power of those expensive PCs gets used for nothing more than extra frames.

Playing Tetris at 100,000 fps is a cool to brag right, but at some point you've got to realize that all the power in your system is being wasted. That's the specific limitation Bassman faces.

Games aren't developed around his 2080TI and no games will come close to doing that until devs start pumping out cross-gen and next gen games for next gen consoles.

Cyberpunk 2077 and Final Fantasy 7 remake are both supposed to be cross gen, so those might be the first games to remove some of the "limiting factors" on his current PC.

You seem to downplay the advancement of hardware and standards. I am not sure what decade your mindset is in, but I got to break it to you... SVGA is no longer a big thing anymore. People who buy a 2080 Ti have high standards and want to play games the best way possible. We don't buy a 2080 Ti to play games at 1080p/60fps and hope that a game is advanced enough to fully utilize our hardware. We use our hardware for high frame rates, crazy resolutions, ultra wide, ultra settings, etc.. We don't like to compromise. We want it all. :)

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Pedro

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#105 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69089 Posts

@BassMan said:

@Pedro: Real time ray tracing still isn't in a state to fully deliver a quality gaming experience. That is why I laugh when I hear talk about comparing RT between the next gen consoles. If a 2080 Ti is shit for RT, what are people expecting from a $500 console in 2020? LOL

A quality gaming experience consists of many of the things you listed. The more boxes that are checked off, the more quality the experience. For me the biggest thing is performance. 60fps is the minimum acceptable for a quality experience. That is why I have shit on the current gen consoles so much because they were handicapped right from the beginning with the shit Jaguar CPUs. This should improve next-gen with Ryzen based CPUs. However, it will still depend on the complexity of the game. Developers who really want to push simulations will be more CPU bound and bottleneck frame rates.

You say 60 fps is the minimum for acceptable quality but correct me if I am wrong but you were ragging on the next gen systems offering just that. And if I recall correctly (it maybe someone else) this 60 fps being quality went up to 144fps or something like that. So, it seems like this supposed quality is on a perpetually moving goalpost.

PC gamers out of all the gamers should be the least obnoxious gamers because console squabble is just that, squabble, but unfortunately they are not.

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BassMan

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#106  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17764 Posts

@Pedro said:
@BassMan said:

@Pedro: Real time ray tracing still isn't in a state to fully deliver a quality gaming experience. That is why I laugh when I hear talk about comparing RT between the next gen consoles. If a 2080 Ti is shit for RT, what are people expecting from a $500 console in 2020? LOL

A quality gaming experience consists of many of the things you listed. The more boxes that are checked off, the more quality the experience. For me the biggest thing is performance. 60fps is the minimum acceptable for a quality experience. That is why I have shit on the current gen consoles so much because they were handicapped right from the beginning with the shit Jaguar CPUs. This should improve next-gen with Ryzen based CPUs. However, it will still depend on the complexity of the game. Developers who really want to push simulations will be more CPU bound and bottleneck frame rates.

You say 60 fps is the minimum for acceptable quality but correct me if I am wrong but you were ragging on the next gen systems offering just that. And if I recall correctly (it maybe someone else) this 60 fps being quality went up to 144fps or something like that. So, it seems like this supposed quality is on a perpetually moving goalpost.

PC gamers out of all the gamers should be the least obnoxious gamers because console squabble is just that, squabble, but unfortunately they are not.

I wasn't ragging on the next-gen systems for only 60fps. Obviously higher frame rates are better and offer bragging rights. I prefer to play at higher frame rates and don't play many games at 60fps anymore, but I don't shit on 60fps. Although, trying to play an FPS game at 60fps is somewhat painful for me when using a mouse these days. It just doesn't feel good and I avoid it. You are right about quality being on a perpetually moving goalpost though. Standards keep rising.

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BoxRekt

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#107  Edited By BoxRekt
Member since 2019 • 2425 Posts
@BassMan said:
@boxrekt said:
@Pedro said:
@BassMan said:

Maybe because the people bragging actually do have good PCs. PC gamers are not limited to shit hardware like consoles. Any limitations are on the individual and not the PC platform.

One of the limiting factors of PC is that its open.

More specifically devs don't prioritize developing games for the highest end PC GPU and CPU combinations. Because of this most of the power of those expensive PCs gets used for nothing more than extra frames.

Playing Tetris at 100,000 fps is a cool to brag right, but at some point you've got to realize that all the power in your system is being wasted. That's the specific limitation Bassman faces.

Games aren't developed around his 2080TI and no games will come close to doing that until devs start pumping out cross-gen and next gen games for next gen consoles.

Cyberpunk 2077 and Final Fantasy 7 remake are both supposed to be cross gen, so those might be the first games to remove some of the "limiting factors" on his current PC.

You seem to downplay the advancement of hardware and standards. I am not sure what decade your mindset is in, but I got to break it to you... SVGA is no longer a big thing anymore. People who buy a 2080 Ti have high standards and want to play games the best way possible. We don't buy a 2080 Ti to play games at 1080p/60fps and hope that a game is advanced enough to fully utilize our hardware. We use our hardware for high frame rates, crazy resolutions, ultra wide, ultra settings, etc.. We don't like to compromise. We want it all. :)

That's a lot of fluff and rosy window dressing just to say you're still limited to playing 2013 1.84 TF PS4 developed games with sugar on top until next gen starts.

You can say more resolution, more frames yada yada you're still not playing ANY games developed specifically for your 2080TF. That's a fact no matter how you try to dress it up.

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BassMan

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#108  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17764 Posts

@boxrekt said:
@BassMan said:
@boxrekt said:
@Pedro said:

One of the limiting factors of PC is that its open.

More specifically devs don't prioritize developing games for the highest end PC GPU and CPU combinations. Because of this most of the power of those expensive PCs gets used for nothing more than extra frames.

Playing Tetris at 100,000 fps is a cool to brag right, but at some point you've got to realize that all the power in your system is being wasted. That's the specific limitation Bassman faces.

Games aren't developed around his 2080TI and no games will come close to doing that until devs start pumping out cross-gen and next gen games for next gen consoles.

Cyberpunk 2077 and Final Fantasy 7 remake are both supposed to be cross gen, so those might be the first games to remove some of the "limiting factors" on his current PC.

You seem to downplay the advancement of hardware and standards. I am not sure what decade your mindset is in, but I got to break it to you... SVGA is no longer a big thing anymore. People who buy a 2080 Ti have high standards and want to play games the best way possible. We don't buy a 2080 Ti to play games at 1080p/60fps and hope that a game is advanced enough to fully utilize our hardware. We use our hardware for high frame rates, crazy resolutions, ultra wide, ultra settings, etc.. We don't like to compromise. We want it all. :)

That's a lot of fluff and rosy window dressing just to say you're still limited to playing 2013 1.84 TF PS4 developed games with sugar on top until next gen starts.

You can say more resolution, more frames yada yada you're still not playing ANY games developed specifically for your 2080TF. That's a fact no matter how you try to dress it up.

Again, stop downplaying the benefits of high end PC hardware. PC gaming is scalable. Games are not designed for one specific card. That is why there are different settings. Whether it is DXR, textures, geometry detail, shaders, etc... there are things that scale to the hardware. Consoles settings represent the low end of the spectrum...

.... and the games run like shit. LOL

I don't see the console version of Metro Exodus looking as sexy as this with RTX on or off...

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