Forbes -- Why Steve Jobs Deserves Credit as a Video Game Pioneer

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]

Oh I think you do understand. Things are so much more interesting when people are simply honest. Give it a go.

Threads like these are the only kind of threads that generate responses like these, responses like it's common knowledge that Apple had nothing to do with gaming. Well, the very people that are responsible for creating the games you all play are the ones who did the voting. Maybe the pill is too bitter, I don't know. What I do know is that nobody has taken a real crack at objectively breaking down reasons why Steve Jobs and Apple aren't a major player in gaming and the direction the video game world is headed in. It's all just boring old typical hyperbole and dismissive, self-righteous nonsense.

Anyone?

GD1551

It's simple as this. Creating a platform that allows for game distribution doesn't make you a VG pioneer. If that were the case, then whoever invented programming languages and created the PC deserve credit as VG pioneers as well. Even with that the thread doesn't do anything for the system wars game, there's no system involved here that we can bash or praise.

Exactly, Steve jobs did not bring gaming to iphones, he made it possible for it to come but the pioneers for cellphone gaming are the people at angry birds, or robo defence etc that have been pushing apps for iphone. This whole article is just to gush over steve jobs and claim he was a god among men.... He was a great buisness man yes, he had good ideas yes, but thats about all.

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]So what makes the opinions of forum going gamers more relevant than those of industry professionals? The percentage of people who voted for Steve Jobs really was quite high, unquestionably, out of the range of statistical error high. It wasn't even close.Haziqonfire

The survey was more geared towards indie developers and asking them what was their biggest influence in gaming (to get them to where they're at now) and they answered appropriately, as the iOS store has been beneficial for that. In terms of us gamers, the one that go on the forums, Steve Jobs is pretty irrelevant to gaming. when compared to the likes of Miyamoto, Newell, Levine, Kojima, etc. He's not really comparable at all in terms of overall influence.

Edit + Off-Topic: Also if anyone deserves credit for anything, it's Dennis Ritchie. Both Jobs and Ritchie's deaths were sad, but I can't believe how no one cared about Ritchie's death considering he arguably did as much as jobs did, if not more, for the computing world.

kill the author. kill him now.

I highly doubt that the future of gaming is on portable devices. Just because theres a lot of people buying games on those, doesn't mean they are the future. Consoles games sell like crazy, and those are the people who care about games. I don't think many people who randomly play games on their portable devices are gamers like people who play on consoles. How could they be the future?? Most of those games are flash aren't they?? Flash games have always been popular, you can't compare those to games like uncharted, grand theft auto, forza, gran turismo or any other games on consoles and I doubt we will be playing those games on the ipad.

I think people are just saying this about Steve because he died, no one was saying that before he died, well I didn't hear anyone say that.

Why he doesn't: Because he didn't actually do anything to pioneer video games.

Why they say he did: Because he died.

MacBoomStick

Touch doesn't even come close to the precision that the mouse or the thumbstick offers, one could claim that touch has a limit on its precision due to the physical aspect of hands. Everyone who tried a game on these mobile devices knows that the games suffer under this, leaving gameplay to compensate for the horrid precision, which results in simplistic games.

It is true that mobile devices offer great games for the occasional gamer, it doesn't come close to offering what consoles like PS 3 / xbox360 offer. A clear example of this is the DS, many gamers didn't enjoy the games that DS offered, not because they were childish, but because it felt simplistic .

Claiming that the future of gaming is in these mobile devices is a huge overstatement and posing that these mobile devices offer hardware that is as powerful as consoles is an outright lie.

The fact that high ranked bosses en journalists from the gaming industry pose these claims isinteresting though. I've always thought that the industry is blind, focusing all their tech and thought on occasional gaming, leaving gamers who play games as a hobby behind.
Stupid move, because there is a huge amount of hobbyists out there, waiting for a developer to realize this

I do however agree that Apple, (not just steve jobs!!!!!!!!!!!) did some important things in gaming. They further widened the gap between occasional and hobbyist gamers, I can only hope that, over time, a clear distinction between the two rises. With each market satisfied by different products and different producers.

Once again, very simply said and the core problem of this industry:

Stop expecting that every gamer out there enjoys mainstream, realize that there are enough profitable niché markets our there. Demon/Dark souls, CS, SC are all proof for that, very mainstream unfiendly games yet very profitable. Games like those would never work on a limited device like the Ipad.

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]"just look at his humble clothing! he wore a turtleneck, jeans, and tennis shoes instead of suits like that arrogant capitalist oligarch bill gates! he's a really down-to-earth guy!" (then he refuses early medical treatment of his cancer for the sake of his company and cuts the donor line for an organ transplant when his cancer gets worse)AdrianWerner

Yeah I wonder if Gates will be deified when he dies,the same way Jobs was.Seeing as how he made just as big a contribution to the industry and was many,many times more philanthropic.

Yeah I wonder if Gates will be deified when he dies,the same way Jobs was.Seeing as how he made just as big a contribution to the industry and was many,many times more philanthropic.

stvee101

Ok, let's all praise Steve Jobs. We know if anything good has ever happened in anything, Steve had his hand in it. So let's get it out of the way and pat good old Steve on the back. Go Steve!

[QUOTE="stvee101"]

Yeah I wonder if Gates will be deified when he dies,the same way Jobs was.Seeing as how he made just as big a contribution to the industry and was many,many times more philanthropic.

AdrianWerner

iOS, facebook i.e. "social gaming" is the same form of gaming as PS2 casuals and the Wii/DS blue ocean thing, it's just evolved in a different direction. Apple didn't actually create the genre or gameplay style.

What Steve Jobs did you could say, 10 years from now, was that he merged video games with other devices like smartphones as well as create a new type of business model for the industry. Isn't Playstation Suite Sony's smartphone gaming app? That is what Steve Jobs influenced for better or worse.

Will that lead to the death of dedicated video game systems? Well yes, phones become more like gaming consoles and gaming consoles become more like phones. Now you can browse the net on 3DS/Vita. Nintendo itself has even launched a Video app on 3DS with vids that are not gaming related. Well death is the wrong word, it'll lead to convergence of hardware. The software will still clearly differentiate the products.

This is what companies have done in the past. At least they create gaming content for their platforms; Mr Jobs would not even be getting considered VG Pioneer if not for other people making games on his platform.

I can see where people are coming from, we get it, it's cool you can DL some disposable game for $1 anywhere and very easy. But did he pioneer music or the way we get our music? You wouldn't say he is a music pioneer, that would go to the creative artists out there who make content so that you can enjoy on his platform. Same with video games.

More like a... software acquirement pioneer...

RIP Steve Jobs, great man, great vision, but no video game pioneer.

SaltyMeatballs

Core gamers buy a lot of $60 games. Non-gamers (on the phone platform) but a few $0.99 games. Which is better for the industry? 20 million $1 sales, or 2 million $60 sales? Non-gamers might outnumber core, but they definitely don't support the industry as much. And what is giving people the ability to play Minesweeper on the go do for the industry other than make investors happy? What benefit does dumbing down the gaming medium for the lowest common denominator do to help push gaming as an artform forward? Sure, there are phone game developers who make some really artistic games, but if their audience has already written off the platform they make games for as a non-legitimate gaming device, then how does that help them? Jobs didn't do anything to "pioneer" in gaming. He just opened the doors for a flood of simple, cheap, money-generators.foxhound_fox

I see where you are going, but you've vastly underestimated App Store game sales. In the United States and six European countries combined, users are downloading more than 5 million games every day. Don't forget that the development teams for many of these games are often no more than a handful of people if not just one person. That equals hefty returns, which is why many games that release at 6.99, 2.99, or any other non-.99 price point will eventually be reduced to .99 cents (holiday sales, anniversary sales, etc). That's a win for gamers.

You would be correct in assuming the same time and energy doesn't go into these handheld games, but more and more are offering deeper, unique, and new game experiences while demanding less time and energy to fully enjoy (as would be appropriate for a game on a phone or tablet). Gaming on a mobile device like an iPhone isn't all about appealing to the lowest common denominator, but about appealing to a broader audience -- an audience that isn't going to invest 60USD into a video game. If people think Nintendo created a new generation of gamers with the Wii, Apple did that 100 times over with iOS.

Also please remember to continue to think objectively. This less time intensive gaming experience is not everybody's cup of tea, but one must acknowledge what has happened since the App Store launched.

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]So what makes the opinions of forum going gamers more relevant than those of industry professionals? The percentage of people who voted for Steve Jobs really was quite high, unquestionably, out of the range of statistical error high. It wasn't even close.Haziqonfire

The survey was more geared towards indie developers and asking them what was their biggest influence in gaming (to get them to where they're at now) and they answered appropriately, as the iOS store has been beneficial for that. In terms of us gamers, the one that go on the forums, Steve Jobs is pretty irrelevant to gaming. when compared to the likes of Miyamoto, Newell, Levine, Kojima, etc. He's not really comparable at all in terms of overall influence.

Just because Steve Jobs is never acknowledged on the forums as someone who has had a big impact in gaming doesn't make it true. The real world of developers have spoken, and Jobs was their top vote, as I said, by a long shot. Perhaps it's time more people on the forums took a step back and thought more deeply about the circumstances surrounding the whole tech universe. It doesn't change just because the platform for the discussion changes.

Steve Jobs either impacted gaming or he didn't, and the ones who make the games seem to think he did.

They'll never be able to sell thin tablets for anywhere close to the cost of a dedicated console or even a PC.ActionRemix

Not yet, maybe in decades though.Stevo_the_gamer

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Not yet, maybe in decades though.musicalmac

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]So what makes the opinions of forum going gamers more relevant than those of industry professionals? The percentage of people who voted for Steve Jobs really was quite high, unquestionably, out of the range of statistical error high. It wasn't even close.musicalmac

The survey was more geared towards indie developers and asking them what was their biggest influence in gaming (to get them to where they're at now) and they answered appropriately, as the iOS store has been beneficial for that. In terms of us gamers, the one that go on the forums, Steve Jobs is pretty irrelevant to gaming. when compared to the likes of Miyamoto, Newell, Levine, Kojima, etc. He's not really comparable at all in terms of overall influence.

Just because Steve Jobs is never acknowledged on the forums as someone who has had a big impact in gaming doesn't make it true. The real world of developers have spoken, and Jobs was their top vote, as I said, by a long shot. Perhaps it's time more people on the forums took a step back and thought more deeply about the circumstances surrounding the whole tech universe. It doesn't change just because the platform for the discussion changes.

Steve Jobs either impacted gaming or he didn't, and the ones who make the games seem to think he did.

[QUOTE="ActionRemix"]Dennis Ritchie died around the same time and he DEFINITELY did a lot more for video games than Jobs.GhoX

If tablets take over the market, I'll have one less expensive hobby.

All that really needs to be said.

TreyoftheDead

Ditto. I have little interest in portable gaming.

Thirded. I'm going to the PC if this becomes the case. :P

Just plain silly.

you love apple, we get it. I'm sure their are people in the game industry who don't agree with forbes, there is just no way this guy should be called video game pioneer, i'm sure gaming was the last thing on his mindChris_Williams

The level in which phones, handhelds, or pad-esque devices hold the graphical prowess of next generation consoles or current generation PCs is a long ways off. 10-20 years seems about right.

Stevo_the_gamer

It doesn't have to be as powerful to produce something of comparable quality. See already where we're at with games like Dark Meadow, the upcoming Infinity Blade 2, and Real Racing 2, none of which are really pushing the latest mobile devices to their limit. Low power consumption with high power output is the new rage in CPUs and GPUs.musicalmac

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]you love apple, we get it. I'm sure their are people in the game industry who don't agree with forbes, there is just no way this guy should be called video game pioneer, i'm sure gaming was the last thing on his mindmusicalmac

The level in which phones, handhelds, or pad-esque devices hold the graphical prowess of next generation consoles or current generation PCs is a long ways off. 10-20 years seems about right.

Stevo_the_gamer

Those games would look good... in 2005. This is 2011. Mobile has an exceedingly long ways to go.Stevo_the_gamer

people are giving you reasons and all you say to it is, think bigger.Chris_Williams

lol @ iphone revolutionizing gaming

Yeah cuz I really want a critical communcation device to run out of batteries, lose my job and become homeless, as long as I can play Angry Birds.

Or you can just get a Vita and a dumb phone, save yourself $2000 a year in service charges, and live indoors.

kill the author. kill him now.

Zorgax

So you admit that something as small as an iPhone is only one generation behind our current generation of consoles, or at least on par with 360 games in 2005? That's not an exceedingly large gap.musicalmac

Sure, if you think games like GUN are impressive visually or worth noting about.

Stevo_the_gamer

the way i see it he advanced games by making pc almost the only place you could get the ones you really wanted to play.

seriously, getting to watch history be rewritten right before your very eyes is facinating.

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

Sure, if you think games like GUN are impressive visually or worth noting about.

musicalmac

do we call the person who invented the cell phone a video game pioneer? i don't believe we do, but steve jobs dies and he's the savior of gaming now?

do we call the person who invented the cell phone a video game pioneer? i don't believe we do, but steve jobs dies and he's the savior of gaming now?

Chris_Williams

do we call the person who invented the cell phone a video game pioneer? i don't believe we do, but steve jobs dies and he's the savior of gaming now?

Chris_Williams

gamers and industry professionals post-jobs death: "omg! game pioneer!!!"

i want to give credit where it is due and the guy was obviously a genius but this whole hero worshipping thing for a guy whose computers gamers knew to stay far away from is just a joke to me.

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]"just look at his humble clothing! he wore a turtleneck, jeans, and tennis shoes instead of suits like that arrogant capitalist oligarch bill gates! he's a really down-to-earth guy!" (then he refuses early medical treatment of his cancer for the sake of his company and cuts the donor line for an organ transplant when his cancer gets worse)AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]

do we call the person who invented the cell phone a video game pioneer? i don't believe we do, but steve jobs dies and he's the savior of gaming now?

musicalmac

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]

do we call the person who invented the cell phone a video game pioneer? i don't believe we do, but steve jobs dies and he's the savior of gaming now?

musicalmac

I think it's rather ridiculous to name this man a videogame pioneer over the likes of other, much more qualified individuals but considering the almost cult-like following he and his company seemed to invoke, I can't say I'm surprised.

There's obivously emotional bias.I mean, people are suddenly comparing him to Thomas Edison and Ford.

Zuckerberg being in the top 10 is proof enough how much the list is lol-worthy. :lol:

nitekids2004

its very relevant, i'm just confused that this guy who had nothing to do in the gaming era besides marketing the iphone and ipad is called a video game pioneer, he was the business man of the company, its not like he sat down and helped design the ipad and the iphone and said, hey we also need to give gamers what they want on these phones, no that was done by apples R&D and engineering team, all this guy did was market the products, Its not like we saw this guy at E3 saying, apple wants to deliver videogaming to our customers and blah blah blah, no, i guarantee jobs didn't even care about videogames, but he dies and now he's a video gaming pioneer? I'm not trying to speak ill of the dead and may he rest in peace but all forbes and people in the industry are doing are brown nosing and all that because of his untimely death. Chris_Williams

Just because Steve Jobs is never acknowledged on the forums as someone who has had a big impact in gaming doesn't make it true. The real world of developers have spoken, and Jobs was their top vote, as I said, by a long shot. Perhaps it's time more people on the forums took a step back and thought more deeply about the circumstances surrounding the whole tech universe. It doesn't change just because the platform for the discussion changes.

Steve Jobs either impacted gaming or he didn't, and the ones who make the games seem to think he did.

musicalmac

Yes, but like I said it's more based on how the iOS store opened up opportunities for developers to break into the industry rather than him and Apple actually having more meaningful influences on gaming as a whole.

The iOS store helps more indie developers break into the industry and in that regard Apple and Jobs are influential to gaming - They helped more developers get their games out to the public.

In terms of overall influence in the industry, I don't think Apple or Jobs have done enough (at this point) to deserve being credited as a 'pioneer', it's actually rather silly and a slap to the face to other developers/companies who have shaped video games as a whole.

Yes, but like I said it's more based on how the iOS store opened up opportunities for developers to break into the industry rather than him and Apple actually having more meaningful influences on gaming as a whole.

The iOS store helps more indie developers break into the industry and in that regard Apple and Jobs are influential to gaming - They helped more developers get their games out to the public.

In terms of overall influence in the industry, I don't think Apple or Jobs have done enough to deserve being credited as a 'pioneer' - especially when you look at others who have been in the industry longer and have done much more to shape what gaming has becmoe today.

[QUOTE="nitekids2004"]

There's obivously emotional bias.I mean, people are suddenly comparing him to Thomas Edison and Ford.

Zuckerberg being in the top 10 is proof enough how much the list is lol-worthy. :lol:

musicalmac

its very relevant, i'm just confused that this guy who had nothing to do in the gaming era besides marketing the iphone and ipad is called a video game pioneer, he was the business man of the company, its not like he sat down and helped design the ipad and the iphone and said, hey we also need to give gamers what they want on these phones, no that was done by apples R&D and engineering team, all this guy did was market the products, Its not like we saw this guy at E3 saying, apple wants to deliver videogaming to our customers and blah blah blah, no, i guarantee jobs didn't even care about videogames, but he dies and now he's a video gaming pioneer? I'm not trying to speak ill of the dead and may he rest in peace but all forbes and people in the industry are doing are brown nosing and all that because of his untimely death. Chris_Williams

..are you serious? are you being serious right now? i understand what your saying but people have been playing cheap flash games on the pc for yearssss, you know those free flash arcade games, also phones already had the option to download games to it. If you can provide proof to me that jobs came up with the app store then i would agree with you but this guy didn't do anything on the technological front, he didn't sit down with the R&D team, all he does is sell the product, anyone could have done what he did. When apple first started out, Steve Wozniak created the first apple computer himself, he built it and programmed it his own self and all steve jobs did was sell it for him then they grew and grew, so Steve Wozniak is a bigger video game pioneer then Jobs, technically. But you know what, its whatever because people are just saying that because their still caught up emotionally with his death, so its whatever, but i know and alot of other people agree that Jobs has done nothing for the gaming community.

..are you serious? are you being serious right now? i understand what your saying but people have been playing cheap flash games on the pc for yearssss, you know those free flash arcade games, also phones already had the option to download games to it. If you can provide proof to me that jobs came up with the app store then i would agree with you but this guy didn't do anything on the technological front, he didn't sit down with the R&D team, all he does is sell the product, anyone could have done what he did. When apple first started out, Steve Wozniak created the first apple computer himself, he built it and programmed it his own self and all steve jobs did was sell it for him then they grew and grew, so Steve Wozniak is a bigger video game pioneer then Jobs, technically. But you know what, its whatever because people are just saying that because their still caught up emotionally with his death, so its whatever, but i know and alot of other people agree that Jobs has done nothing for the gaming community.

Chris_Williams

Why are you asking me if I'm being serious when you understand what I'm saying?... :?

I said it before and I'll say it again -- you clearly do not understand how Steve Jobs ran Apple (first into the ground, and then into the most successful and valuable company in the world). He was not just a salesman, he was just a very good salesman. Nothing is black and white, there is always more to the story. Assuming people are just caught up in the moment is meaningless and has no bearing at all on the topic at hand by itself.

You should read the biogrphy, because otherwise your assumptions about Jobs' role at Apple will continue to be incorrect.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not just indie developers that take advantage of the App Store. EA, id Software, Capcom, and Square Enix all have multiple games available. The App Store has done something traditional consoles and high-end PC games don't do -- and that's create new gamers in mass numbers. That's a big deal. You have to think beyond the core gamer, and into society as a whole.musicalmac

I agree the iOS store has managed to get more people to play games who normally wouldn't even touch them and that's a great thing, the more people who play games the better. The PS1, PS2, Wii, iOS/iPhone have all helped in this regard, they got more people into gaming.

But I still stand by my point about indie developers crediting the iOS store and Jobs as their biggest influence because that's where they managed to get their games pushed out.

I think the other developers use the iOS store because it's relatively cheap to make games on it and it's easier to make and sell a $0.99 version of Tetris than it is to make a $29.99 version on a 3DS/Vita. However, I also think the biggest developers are using the iOS store to intrigue people into buying their games on other platforms. As far as I can recall, RAGE had an iOS game that was fairly good and free, which probably was used as part of id Software's marketing budget as a means to get more people interested in the world of RAGE and buy the game eventually on another platform.

So, I definitely agree that the iOS store and Jobs have opened up gaming to the masses, but I still don't think he should be credited as a pioneer - at least, not yet. This has been relatively short term and I'm still more interested to see where iOS games head after 5 more years or so and I'm still not sure whether or not those companies are profitable in the long run off of $0.99 games that feel disposable.

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]

..are you serious? are you being serious right now? i understand what your saying but people have been playing cheap flash games on the pc for yearssss, you know those free flash arcade games, also phones already had the option to download games to it. If you can provide proof to me that jobs came up with the app store then i would agree with you but this guy didn't do anything on the technological front, he didn't sit down with the R&D team, all he does is sell the product, anyone could have done what he did. When apple first started out, Steve Wozniak created the first apple computer himself, he built it and programmed it his own self and all steve jobs did was sell it for him then they grew and grew, so Steve Wozniak is a bigger video game pioneer then Jobs, technically. But you know what, its whatever because people are just saying that because their still caught up emotionally with his death, so its whatever, but i know and alot of other people agree that Jobs has done nothing for the gaming community.

musicalmac

Why are you asking me if I'm being serious when you understand what I'm saying?... :?

I said it before and I'll say it again -- you clearly do not understand how Steve Jobs ran Apple (first into the ground, and then into the most successful and valuable company in the world). He was not just a salesman, he was just a very good salesman. Nothing is black and white, there is always more to the story. Assuming people are just caught up in the moment is meaningless and has no bearing at all on the topic at hand by itself.

You should read the biogrphy, because otherwise your assumptions about Jobs' role at Apple will continue to be incorrect.