Flawed, but highly satisfying

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#1 Edited by jg4xchamp (61462 posts) -

Simple concept. The game has some glaring drawback and design failure. Either it is rushed, busted, broken, or all that jazz, but when all things are considered you didn't give the slightest of fucks because the game was a joy to play for one reason or another. Because sheer badassery. My pick: Ninja Gaiden 2

Was it rushed because Itagaki said **** it, you're not paying me my money Team Ninja, I'm just not going to finish the game? **** yes it was. Some of the level design is just fucking unbalanced, and other are fucking lazy. That cave worm shit? it's the most disgusting green ever. What type of green? Sick baby poop green. Yeah I know, fucking gross.

I might even concede to the fucking casual pansies who can't learn how to left trigger the camera, that the camera is a bit of a hassle in NG2 (no dice on NG1, you just suck if the camera bothers you, suck less you human sack of garbage). But the combat?

Fucking awesome. Pure badassery at its finest. Tons of variety in weapons (falcon talons, dual swords, LUNAR STAFF THE GOAT, the vigorian flails, that fucking sythe? So good. No game last, not one single video game could match that sheer blood splattering, brutal satisfaction you get from killing a mother fucker in Ninja Gaiden.

Bayonetta? Fantastic combat, but it's more about style and combo strings

Devil May Cry 4? same as above, but shittier pacing and level design

God of War? lol bitch we're talking about good gameplay.

Ninja Gaiden 2's rough edges don't invalidate a combat engine that is flat out one of the most satisfying gameplay engines in the genre. What it lacks in the crazier custom combo strings of say a DMC3, or the wicked style of Bayonetta, it makes up for it all with a combat system built for you to kill enemies quickly and efficiently. It becomes more about learning to deal with a variety of aggressive and difficult enemies, and less about some scoring system.

Plus Master Ninja aka I hate my life the difficulty mode? still complete and utter bullshit, but incredibly satisfying once you conquer it. A representation of your own will power.

You people: This isn't system wars material.

I was getting to that. Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden 2 for the 360 are the real versions of these incredibly satisfying action games. Sigma games were pussified bitch fests made for the school girls that are play station owners. The rightful place for this series is actually on the PC, where satisfying games with depth would actually be rewarded with success.

So what's your game SW? What game do you enjoy in spite of an obvious design failure.

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#2 Edited by R3FURBISHED (12379 posts) -

First game that came to mind was Ryse. Fantastic production values but no soul.

Pretty much anything that isn't called graphics could be called poorly implemented/realized.

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#3 Posted by turtlethetaffer (18600 posts) -

How about Just Cause 2? The missions weren't terribly well designed and there was pop up pretty much everywhere, and we can't forget that horrid voice acting. But I'll be damned if that game doesn't define the term "sandbox." It gives you so many toys and makes it so easy to have fun with them.

Also, a lot of people are going to disagree, but I'm gonna say the Souls games. Not because they aren't well designed (they are very well designed) but because the way their structured makes them inherently repetitive, and you need to be able to deal with that to appreciate it (before anyone says it's only repetitive when you're bad, that's true. But everyone was bad at the games at some point.)

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#4 Edited by Wasdie (53489 posts) -

Call of Duty single player.

Let's be honest, a 3 hour linear romp is flawed by design. They don't even bother to take cues from Halo, Half Life, or FEAR, all games arguably the kings of the linear shooter. Each playthrough of CoD plays out exactly the same but for some damn reason I find myself replaying them all of the time.

I have thought about this before, mainly because everything tells me that I should not like these games. However I've come to the conclusion that very few games have as satisfying gunplay as CoD. As arcady and unrealistic as it is, the guns just feel right. Instead of trying to outsmart you with clever AI, they build the levels around the gunplay and just send hordes of mindless AI for you to satisfyingly mow down. It just works.

I shouldn't like this. I even think Battlefield is a far superior game. I just love myself CoD single player and I crave more. I refuse to play the multiplayer outside of a few matches and I refuse to turn the difficult up to veteran where they basically kill you at every chance they get just to make the game seem difficult. I will fire up a CoD game on the normal difficulty and blast my way through it in and afternoon and feel no shame.

God help me.

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#5 Posted by zassimick (10410 posts) -

Kingdom Hearts II - an incredibly easy game, even on the highest difficulty, and the combat is rather shallow. But my goodness is that game more of a sum of its parts rather than its individual assets that makes it amazing. I still remember fondly back when it was one of my favorite games. Can't wait to get KH HD 2.5 Remix and get that harder difficulty.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds was a more recent game that I think fits. The polish the game has is there, it's got solid gameplay mechanics and everything just feels right... but it being nearly a carbon-copy of A Link to the Past in terms of world design hurt the game for me. Some people loved this, I know, but it really felt like they just took an easy way out rather than create a new and exciting overworld. I know I might be in the minority on this one, but it bothered me when playing.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - This game did a lot of things wrong. From abusing its desire to force motion-controls on every little thing you do as well as the lack of exploration out in the sky, and a few other problems. But combat felt great, the game was actually one of the more difficult entries in the series, it was beautiful, sounded wonderful, and was an epic journey that did the best at taking you through Link's journey. While my least favorite Zelda game, it was still a wondrous game that I look forward to playing again sometime.

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#6 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

Really ? Seriously ?

Off Screen enemies throw projectiles at you in cramped spaces and you believe thats evidence of player incompetence ?

I liked Ninja Gaiden too but its camera was sh!t, mastering a flawed game doesn't negate the flaws. Anyway its still pretty fantastic.... However Devil May Cry is definately all about style but the combo strings are not long... Thats Bayonetta's Territory.

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#7 Edited by jg4xchamp (61462 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

Really ? Seriously ?

Off Screen enemies throw projectiles at you in cramped spaces and you believe thats evidence of player incompetence ?

I liked Ninja Gaiden too but its camera was sh!t, mastering a flawed game doesn't negate the flaws. Anyway its still pretty fantastic.... However Devil May Cry is definately all about style but the combo strings are not long... Thats Bayonetta's Territory.

Learn 2 block and move around.

If you're talking strictly NG2, then sure. But NG1? no that's your shittyness talking.

Longer combo strings=more points. More points=better scores in DMC and Bayonetta. So yes both are long strings, and both can have quick kills. But the true mastery of each system is what crazy psycho long ass combo you can put together. Spare me your ignorance lulu.

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#8 Posted by finalfantasy94 (27395 posts) -

Sigma games were pussified bitch fests made for the school girls that are play station owners.

From my experiance sigma two felt harder then NG2.

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#9 Posted by wolverine4262 (20831 posts) -

I dunno. Crackdown and Chromehounds both come to mind.

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#10 Edited by mems_1224 (56917 posts) -

Binary Domain-It has Big Bo

Mount and Blade Warband-A game that came out in 2010 that has 2001 graphics. Really rough around the edges but really fun leading 300 people into battle.

Deus Ex Human Revolution-Really unpolished, graphics are shit, voice acting is horrible, some of the worst boss battles ever and yet its still one of my favorite games from last gen.

State of Decay-Graphics are mediocre, framerate is bad on 360 and its kind of a simple game once you get the hang of it but its still really addicting.

XCom The Bureau Declassified-Gunplay is pretty mediocre and the AI isn't the best but its really fun to order your troops around and murder aliens

The Darkness 1 and 2

Risen 2-so many problems with this game, still had a lot of fun with it

The Ballad of Gay Tony-Best GTA protagonist. The biggest thing going against it is that its part of GTA4, because that game was garbage.

Sniper Elite V2. A lot of the indoor sections suck but there is nothing like making someone's balls explode.

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#11 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@jg4xchamp

I know how to block and move around, pretty fucking useless if shurikens get flung by unseen enemies. Never played Ninja Gaiden but in NG2 it was definately flawed.

As for Devil May Cry, you get higher points from variety of combos not how long they are, infact I managed to raise my rank twice using one move, it wasn't even a combo, it was literally a single move..... Bayonetta does both length and variety.

I spared you my ignorance by not ignoring you.... Will you spare me your ignorance ?

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#12 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@jg4xchamp

I know how to block and move around, pretty fucking useless if shurikens get flung by unseen enemies. Never played Ninja Gaiden but in NG2 it was definately flawed.

As for Devil May Cry, you get higher points from variety of combos not how long they are, infact I managed to raise my rank twice using one move, it wasn't even a combo, it was literally a single move..... Bayonetta does both length and variety.

I spared you my ignorance by not ignoring you.... Will you spare me your ignorance ?

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#13 Posted by with_teeth26 (8338 posts) -

Risen 2 - The combat was shoddy and the story sucked but the game had so much charm and exploration was really fun since there was no wasted space on the map, every nook and cranny had something interesting.

Rome 2 Total War - The AI was buggered at launch but charging through guys with elephants was still amazing, as was defending cities and directly controlling ballistas where the camera followed each shot as it flew into the enemy ranks.

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#14 Edited by Vaasman (12879 posts) -

" I might even concede to the fucking casual pansies who can't learn how to left trigger the camera, that the camera is a bit of a hassle in NG2".

Bit of a hassle my ass, the camera in NG2's original release is fucking broken. Sorry, how does it make someone casual to expect a non-horrid camera, one that actually sticks to bosses without lazily drifting to the sides, and doesn't get caught clipping on the environment, and doesn't flail around wildly when it isn't babysat, and has some actual buffering and shit? I shouldn't have to spam left trigger just to keep up with whats going on, and I shouldn't have to deal with attacks that regularly come from ranged opponents I can't possibly keep track of even with said left trigger spam because there's fucking five of them flipping around the room with explosive shurikens. Camera is often a problem in these spectacle fighters, but NG2's is by far the worst from these higher tier launches. I can ignore the games lesser issues like recycling bosses, ugly inconsistent art, and loads of bugs, but the camera is just too frequently nightmarish to forgive in that game.

If you want my answer to the thread's inquiry, Chromehounds was an amazing multiplayer concept full of ambition and excellent ideas, and it was killed by terrible latency and balance issues. Loved the shit out of it til the exploits ruined it.

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#15 Edited by PapaTrop (1792 posts) -

I firmly believe there is no possible way to become good at Dead Island or its expansion, but it's so fun to uppercut zombies.

Deus Ex is pretty flawed too. Like..... some enemies run around with their heads chopped off, and why is that sword so powerful? I can't remember the name of it. That game was great though.

Mount and Blade Warband has perhaps the most satisfying sword/shield gameplay, but it's hidden under a dirty pile of dirt. I've put over 300 hours into it though. It's so good.

And I'm sure I could list many more.

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#16 Edited by lostrib (49999 posts) -

Alpha protocol?

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#17 Posted by jg4xchamp (61462 posts) -

@lostrib said:

Alpha protocol?

Fantastic example. Don't like actually playing the game, but that dialogue tree stuff and where the story goes from all that is cool as shit.

@mems_1224 said:

Binary Domain-It has Big Bo

State of Decay-Graphics are mediocre, framerate is bad on 360 and its kind of a simple game once you get the hang of it but its still really addicting.

The Darkness 1 and 2

Good picks Bromeo.

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#18 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

Madden and FIFA games.

Those games have severe AI design flaws but when when 2 ppl get a good game going....it's pretty much fantastic.

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#19 Posted by charizard1605 (82661 posts) -

Oh man, so many. Most of the games I enjoy are ones I enjoy regardless of obvious issues:

  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (with its bullshit Triforce Fetch Quest)
  • Kid Icarus Uprising (with its asinine control scheme)
  • Pokemon X/Y (with its complete lack of difficulty scaling)
  • Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag (stealth sections suck, combat is awful, mission structure is very often terrible)
  • The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (so. many. bugs. Don't get me started on the combat or the banal quests)
  • Mario Kart 8 (character roster sucks, Battle Mode is gimped, item distribution is whack)
  • Persona 4 Golden (dungeons universally suck)
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#20 Posted by freedomfreak (49895 posts) -

Reminds me that I need to finish NG2. You're not wrong. The combat is pretty sweet. Getting rid of that gore is like ripping out its soul.

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#21 Edited by darkspineslayer (22396 posts) -

Metal Gear Rising, because it just had to be a Metal Gear game.

It's already on par or better than almost everything else that came out in 2013. Combat system was tight as ****. but it would have been so much more if it didn't have to tie itself to MGS4 plot elements and shit stealth segments for the sake of legacy.

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#22 Posted by jg4xchamp (61462 posts) -

@freedomfreak said:

Reminds me that I need to finish NG2. You're not wrong. The combat is pretty sweet. Getting rid of that gore is like ripping out its soul.

It's like home girl in your sig without her jugs. What's her purpose in life? her personality and opinions? get the **** out of here.

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#23 Posted by PapaTrop (1792 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@lostrib said:

Alpha protocol?

Fantastic example. Don't like actually playing the game, but that dialogue tree stuff and where the story goes from all that is cool as shit.

That game is awesome.

I really like how the melee............sounds............. Always liked beating the crap out of people even if there wasn't much to the gameplay itself.

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#24 Edited by freedomfreak (49895 posts) -
@jg4xchamp said:

It's like home girl in your sig without her jugs. What's her purpose in life? her personality and opinions? get the **** out of here.

lol exactly :p

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#25 Posted by Blabadon (33030 posts) -

999

**** playing the first two hours five times over. So worth it though.

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#26 Posted by adamosmaki (10563 posts) -

Stalker SOC. To say it was broken and full of bugs was understatement plus some of the graphics were 2003 material. But i could care less the game world sucked you in , gunplay was surprisingly satisfying , some role play elements gave it more depth than any fps on the market and at times A.I. was brilliant when it wasnt broken ( seeing a pack of monsters attacking you and emptying your weapon on them only to see the remaining 2 monsters limping away to escape you was fun as hell )

The same goes for Stalker SOC ( even more bugs )

To some extend that goes for Witcher 1 which i liked more than 2 despite gameplay bugs and according to most reviews unsatisfying combat ( even though i liked it ) and bad voice acting

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#27 Edited by deactivated-57ad0e5285d73 (21398 posts) -

I agree with Ryse. It isn't even a bad game, but it was so obviously rushed for launch just to show graphics.

...I never understood why people bring up Wind Waker Triforce thing. In fact I played that game when it first released and I don't even know what people are referring to.

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#28 Posted by uninspiredcup (25338 posts) -

MDK 2 decided to split the game across 3 characters. Not as good as MDK 1 and the professor character is absolutely shit to play, but the art direction soundtrack and Curt/Max sections make up for it.

Overall, an inferior sequel to the best third person shooter made but still, decent.

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#29 Posted by SambaLele (5552 posts) -

Mount & Blade and the new XCOM. Also, fuckity **** ****.

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#30 Posted by DEadliNE-Zero0 (6607 posts) -

Metal Gear Rising and Bayonetta. The narrative can get quite lost in it self (Platinum huh), the levels can be very short, aswell as the actual game itself. However, damm does PG came so fucking epic battles with a badass soundtrack to go along with it. And the bosses are just too epic.

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#32 Posted by yokofox33 (30774 posts) -

South Park comes to mind for me. Very short, technical issues, not a ton of depth in the game but man is it hella fun.

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#33 Posted by SecretPolice (31980 posts) -

That's something I tell mah GF from time to time. tehe

Like the poster above, I find SP: SToT to fall into that category.

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#34 Posted by MlauTheDaft (5189 posts) -

DMC4 I guess? It has fantastic gameplay and both Nero and Dante are joys to play as; it just sucks to basically play the same levels twice.

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#35 Edited by clyde46 (49050 posts) -

@wolverine4262 said:

I dunno. Crackdown and Chromehounds both come to mind.

I miss Chromehounds.

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#36 Posted by AdobeArtist (24715 posts) -

Too Human.

Yes, the enemy targeting was spotty, had to cycle through the same 4 worlds to reach max level, the unbalanced level scaling, and mutha **** - the unskippable and overly drawn out death sequence. Oh and my first play through was as a Berserker with the lowest defense rating, so I got the Achievement for dying 100 times, lol.

But the skill trees were nicely diversified between classes, even more so with your chosen destiny path (Human or Cybernetic), for great class customization, bountiful looting that provided near endless variety in armor configuration and weapon power growth, a cool exploration design using the Metroidvania gear gating formula, and a fantastic lore exploring Norse mythology.

With the combat in particular, even though the targeting was spotty with the analog directional mechanic, it still managed to be immensely satisfying. The fast paced and frenetic "pinball" dynamic of bouncing between enemies to take down entire hordes was very visceral for a hack n' slash game. Most times it didn't seem to matter that you struck the wrong enemy, you'd eventually clear the floor anyway, so going through waves like that was damn satisfying. It was just more frustrating trying to take down the giant trolls surrounded by minions.

Despite all its flaws I still had so much FUN with the game. Considering how other developers were able to take community feedback into their next games (Assassin Creed 1 to 2 for example...) I really would have loved to see what Silicon Knights could have done for a follow up game, if just given the chance.

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#37 Posted by MlauTheDaft (5189 posts) -
@AdobeArtist said:

Too Human.

Yes, the enemy targeting was spotty, had to cycle through the same 4 worlds to reach max level, the unbalanced level scaling, and mutha **** - the unskippable and overly drawn out death sequence. Oh and my first play through was as a Berserker with the lowest defense rating, so I got the Achievement for dying 100 times, lol.

But the skill trees were nicely diversified between classes, even more so with your chosen destiny path (Human or Cybernetic), for great class customization, bountiful looting that provided near endless variety in armor configuration and weapon power growth, a cool exploration design using the Metroidvania gear gating formula, and a fantastic lore exploring Norse mythology.

With the combat in particular, even though the targeting was spotty with the analog directional mechanic, it still managed to be immensely satisfying. The fast paced and frenetic "pinball" dynamic of bouncing between enemies to take down entire hordes was very visceral for a hack n' slash game. Most times it didn't seem to matter that you struck the wrong enemy, you'd eventually clear the floor anyway, so going through waves like that was damn satisfying. It was just more frustrating trying to take down the giant trolls surrounded by minions.

Despite all its flaws I still had so much FUN with the game. Considering how other developers were able to take community feedback into their next games (Assassin Creed 1 to 2 for example...) I really would have loved to see what Silicon Knights could have done for a follow up game, if just given the chance.

Yeah, that game was so promising :/

Scifi northern mythology? Sign me up!

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#38 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

mass effect 1 - best of the trilogy imo in terms of story/atmosphere

gameplay sucks, menu are clumbersome, controls feel like shit but the soundtracks is awesome and really gives u a sense of adventure and the enviroments/story are very well executed

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#39 Posted by jg4xchamp (61462 posts) -

@SecretPolice said:

That's something I tell mah GF from time to time. tehe

lol

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#40 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@MlauTheDaft

You mean when you backtrack as Dante ?

They play Differently so its not a flaw.

But if you mean the Dice game inside The Savior when you fight all the bosses again as Nero, then yeah.... That sucked Donkey Balls, it was definately flawed.... But I liked it because repetition is not an issue if the gameplay is solid..... i mean thats most Fighting, Sports, and Racing Games work.

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#41 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (9116 posts) -

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter and Spartan: Total Warrior. Both of those games had glaring problems, but they were fun enough for me that I couldn't help but enjoy them.

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#42 Edited by MlauTheDaft (5189 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@MlauTheDaft

You mean when you backtrack as Dante ?

They play Differently so its not a flaw.

But if you mean the Dice game inside The Savior when you fight all the bosses again as Nero, then yeah.... That sucked Donkey Balls, it was definately flawed.... But I liked it because repetition is not an issue if the gameplay is solid..... i mean thats most Fighting, Sports, and Racing Games work.

The reversed levels are'nt bad, but I still consider it flawed design.

I do agree though, the gameplay is stellar (with a very high skill ceiling) and that ultimately makes the game.

I want to try the "new" DMC too, although I highly doubt it can compete with DMC 3/4.

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#43 Posted by foxhound_fox (96808 posts) -

Nier.

A game that far exceeds the sum of it's parts in terms of drawing the player into an amazing journey.

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#44 Edited by Minishdriveby (10520 posts) -

No More Heroes
Killer is Dead

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#45 Posted by Terrencec06 (4015 posts) -

Socom CF

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#46 Edited by LustForSoul (6404 posts) -

The Call of Duty campaigns. They're flat out linear but they've got nice voice acting and usually a well told story. (imo)

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#47 Posted by Salt_The_Fries (12477 posts) -

@wolverine4262 said:

I dunno. Crackdown and Chromehounds both come to mind.

Fantastic picks.

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#48 Edited by parkurtommo (28295 posts) -

Red Faction Guerilla, Just Cause 2, and Saints Row 3 come to mind. I cannot take any of them seriously, but god damn are they fun or what... Especially Red Faction Guerrilla, dem Havok physics, so satisfying!!

And Lost Planet 2. It's terrible in many ways. Yet at the time it was probably one of my most played games on PS3, I had a lot of fun playing it because of all of the well implemented multiplayer stuff.

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#49 Posted by cainetao11 (32736 posts) -

@Wasdie: I have thought about this before, mainly because everything tells me that I should not like these games. However I've come to the conclusion that very few games have as satisfying gunplay as CoD. As arcady and unrealistic as it is, the guns just feel right.

Funny thing many of us soldiers preferred the modern MoH games because the weapons sounded and felt better

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#50 Edited by cainetao11 (32736 posts) -

@foxhound_fox: yes. Nier was more enjoyable than given credit for