DICE on BF3 ps3 version: RSX + SPU raises the graphics bar!

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gpuking

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#1 gpuking
Member since 2004 • 3914 Posts

http://www.slideshare.net/DICEStudio/spubased-deferred-shading-in-battlefield-3-for-playstation-3

DICE is treating the ps3 like a true first class citizen with their BF3, unlike a certain other dev "cough Crytek cough". Just read through their presentation on SPU-Based Deferred Shading, you can see how effectively they're using the spus to offload the work from RSX, I think they're utilising the SPUs more effectively than even some Sony first parties. The 360 version is still not up to scratch yet though as DICE is currently giving the lead to PS3.

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theuncharted34

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#2 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

did that pic really come from dice?

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gpuking

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#3 gpuking
Member since 2004 • 3914 Posts

did that pic really come from dice?

theuncharted34
Yep;), I just added the link to the whole 70+ slides so you can see them all.
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DreamCryotank

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#4 DreamCryotank
Member since 2011 • 1829 Posts

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

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theuncharted34

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#5 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

did that pic really come from dice?

gpuking

Yep;), I just added the link to the whole 70+ slides so you can see them all.

oh well that's pretty cool.

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eboyishere

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#6 eboyishere
Member since 2011 • 12681 Posts
EA and sony teamed up to counter the activision and MS deal....so this will be interesting seeing how far they will support the ps3
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Mystic-G

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#7 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

I find it funny that they speak on the PS3 as if it holds some new technology within the GPU because there's irony in that there were more powerful video cards on the market when BF2 came out.

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xXxQuizzyxXx

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#8 xXxQuizzyxXx
Member since 2010 • 553 Posts

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

DreamCryotank
its HOW its used that matters
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PSdual_wielder

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#9 PSdual_wielder
Member since 2003 • 10646 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

xXxQuizzyxXx

its HOW its used that matters

It perplexes me to this day that some people don't realize games are made by people and developers have varying levels of talent.

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Teuf_

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#10 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts

I find it funny that they speak on the PS3 as if it holds some new technology within the GPU because there's irony in that there were more powerful video cards on the market when BF2 came out.

Mystic-G



That presentation is all about the SPU's, not the GPU. ;)

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mitu123

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#11 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

If the PS3 version looks better than most PS3 exclusives then I'm going to be so happy.

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bigboss5ak

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#12 bigboss5ak
Member since 2007 • 2962 Posts
Great for ps3 owners but i wouldnt sit around and take the risk if your really anticipating this game. The sure way to know your getting the best version possible is on the pc
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WiiMan21

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#13 WiiMan21
Member since 2007 • 8191 Posts

My hype and love for this game went up.

Battlefield is my favorite gaming serie next to Uncharted, and Zelda, if they can pull off a nicer looking game than the 360 on the PS3 in terms of multiplat, then they get a handshake.

I am eager to see how this turns out, though Crytek said similar things....

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Phazevariance

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#14 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

xXxQuizzyxXx

its HOW its used that matters

Yet, imagine HOW they could use new video card technology if they would just make the PS4 already.

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ronvalencia

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#15 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

Sony(SCEA)'s studypaper on "Deferred Pixel Shading on the Playstation 3" and comparative performance to Geforce 7800 GTX. Can be found from http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdf

Quote

D. Comparison to GeForce 7800 GTX GPU

We implemented the same algorithm on a high end state of
the art GPU, the NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX running in a
Linux workstation. This GPU has 24 fragment shader
pipelines running at 430 Mhz and processes 24 fragments
in parallel. By comparison the 5 SPEs that we used process
20 pixels in parallel in quad-SIMD form.

The GeForce required 11.1 ms to complete the shading
operation. In comparison the Cell/B.E. required 11.65 ms
including the DMA waiting time

From Sony's own words, 5 SPEs(with DMA) is roughly equal to Geforce 7800 GTX.

--------------------------

More complex shaders will cripple RSX/G70.

From http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

------------------------

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

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ronvalencia

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#16 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

EA and sony teamed up to counter the activision and MS deal....so this will be interesting seeing how far they will support the ps3eboyishere
EA DICE and AMD

http://game.amd.com/us-en/content/images/play/gameassets/DICE/DICE_11Days_Interview.pdf

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/games/Pages/frostbite-game-engine.aspx

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DreamCryotank

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#17 DreamCryotank
Member since 2011 • 1829 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

xXxQuizzyxXx

its HOW its used that matters

Right, because Crytek are a terrible dev when it comes to tech. :roll:

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Bladex2k

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#18 Bladex2k
Member since 2003 • 2755 Posts

I find it funny that they speak on the PS3 as if it holds some new technology within the GPU because there's irony in that there were more powerful video cards on the market when BF2 came out.

Mystic-G
yeap the ps3 gpu is a watered down 7800gtx which was out for pc then
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TheAcountantMan

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#19 TheAcountantMan
Member since 2011 • 1281 Posts
The RSX chip in the PS3 is roughly a modified 7800GT.

[QUOTE="eboyishere"]EA and sony teamed up to counter the activision and MS deal....so this will be interesting seeing how far they will support the ps3ronvalencia

EA DICE and AMD

http://game.amd.com/us-en/content/images/play/gameassets/DICE/DICE_11Days_Interview.pdf

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/games/Pages/frostbite-game-engine.aspx

I hope EA DICE and AMD, team up again this time for BF3, maybe better support for AMD cards/drivers when the game launches. AMD throws some money DICE's way. Then when the 7000 series launches around the time BF3 comes out....well...yeah...it will be kickass :P.
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Gxgear

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#20 Gxgear
Member since 2003 • 10425 Posts

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"][QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

The Cryengine 3 uses the SPUs... :roll:

DreamCryotank

its HOW its used that matters

Right, because Crytek are a terrible dev when it comes to tech. :roll:

How good are they? From what I've gathered Crysis 2 on consoles is shaping up to disappoint, and the original required top-of-the-line PCs to even run adequately.

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DoomZaW

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#21 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

and despite all this, the game will still be prettier on my pc :P

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WilliamRLBaker

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#22 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

wasn't ghost busters running better on ps3 at one point?

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DreamCryotank

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#23 DreamCryotank
Member since 2011 • 1829 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"] its HOW its used that mattersGxgear

Right, because Crytek are a terrible dev when it comes to tech. :roll:

How good are they? From what I've gathered Crysis 2 on consoles is shaping up to disappoint, and the original required top-of-the-line PCs to even run adequately.

The original needed top of the line PCs to run because it's still the most technically impressive game 4 years after release (until BF3). And Crysis 2 is shaping up to be one of the most visually impressive games on the consoles, and it's their first attempt. I'd say they're pretty good. :|

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deactivated-635601fd996cc

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#24 deactivated-635601fd996cc
Member since 2009 • 4381 Posts
Yeah, and then after they're done kissing ass the game releases and the PS3 gets the inferior port. Oh noes
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WilliamRLBaker

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#25 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

hey I'm just saying ghost busters-ps3 lead console...and that turned out how?

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omho88

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#26 omho88
Member since 2007 • 3967 Posts

hey I'm just saying ghost busters-ps3 lead console...and that turned out how?

WilliamRLBaker
I dun understand how this is connected to the title ?!!! they are saying the PS3 is capable of more when its archeticture is used effectively. On topic: Great that developers are getting used to it, bad PS3 ports are almost extinct + Great exclusives = bad days for X360 :D .
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killzowned24

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#27 killzowned24
Member since 2007 • 7345 Posts
sounds good glad they are putting the spus to use:)
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pelvist

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#28 pelvist
Member since 2010 • 9001 Posts

So what they are saying is that the processor does a better job at being a video card than the PS3 video card does? Thats not really something to brag about though is it?

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PAL360

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#29 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30570 Posts

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

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-Unreal-

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#30 -Unreal-
Member since 2004 • 24650 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"] its HOW its used that mattersGxgear

Right, because Crytek are a terrible dev when it comes to tech. :roll:

How good are they? From what I've gathered Crysis 2 on consoles is shaping up to disappoint, and the original required top-of-the-line PCs to even run adequately.

That really doesn't disprove anything the guy you quoted wrote.
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killzowned24

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#31 killzowned24
Member since 2007 • 7345 Posts

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

PAL360
it looks terrible.
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AlMar12345

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#32 AlMar12345
Member since 2005 • 749 Posts

sounds cool, I haven't heard anyone talk about PS3 hardware in a long time, hearing RSX again was kinda funny, reminded me of all the old SW arguments about which HD console was more powerful

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bryn8150

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#33 bryn8150
Member since 2004 • 795 Posts

its never a good idea to boast about something until it launches or is near completion.

if the 360 version comes out looking better as all multiplats do this would be bad.

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NWA90s

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#34 NWA90s
Member since 2010 • 859 Posts

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

PAL360
COMMON SENSE dude, have you seen the crysis 2 footage on ps3?
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bryn8150

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#35 bryn8150
Member since 2004 • 795 Posts
[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

hey I'm just saying ghost busters-ps3 lead console...and that turned out how?

omho88
I dun understand how this is connected to the title ?!!! they are saying the PS3 is capable of more when its archeticture is used effectively. On topic: Great that developers are getting used to it, bad PS3 ports are almost extinct + Great exclusives = bad days for X360 :D .

its purportedly been bad days for the 360 since the PS3 launch. how'd that work out so far? i think its time for Sony fans to abandon that ship, don't you think?
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Heil68

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#36 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60714 Posts
Good for those who get it on the PS3 i reckon.
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Riverwolf007

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#37 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

i avoided the ps3 version of dead space in order to stay as far as possible from psn and it had extra content. if they can't bribe me to get the version that is on PSN what hope does a tiny difference in gfx make?

and that's even if this is true which if history tell us anything is nothing but marketing bs.

how much credibility can somebody have after the whole difinitive version fiasco?

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Mozelleple112

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#38 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11294 Posts

I find it funny that they speak on the PS3 as if it holds some new technology within the GPU because there's irony in that there were more powerful video cards on the market when BF2 came out.

Mystic-G
no... just no XD
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Mozelleple112

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#39 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11294 Posts

[QUOTE="DreamCryotank"]

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"] its HOW its used that mattersGxgear

Right, because Crytek are a terrible dev when it comes to tech. :roll:

How good are they? From what I've gathered Crysis 2 on consoles is shaping up to disappoint, and the original required top-of-the-line PCs to even run adequately.

Thats because Crysis 1 on PC DESTROYS any console game and will look like PS4 titles.
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04dcarraher

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#40 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23829 Posts
The problem is that The RSX (gimped Geforce 7) is still doing 95% of the graphics workload. So with the help of the PS3 cell off loading some of the work the PS3's graphics power is actaully closer to a real 7800GTX then. Because each SPE has a certain jobs they have to do and chances are that only one or two SPE's will be free to "help" the RSX. Yet The PS3 graphics quality is still limited to 256mb of video memory....
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T-razor1

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#41 T-razor1
Member since 2002 • 1164 Posts

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

killzowned24

it looks terrible.

1. Disagree with you that it looks terrible on PS3 based on video I've seen. Maybe slightly behind the 360 version but far from terrible

2. If it ultimately does look terrible at release don't blame Crytek. Blame it on Sony and the ps3 internal design *Waits for the "but the sony exclusives"*-- No. To me this game is graphically better then anything I've seen on consoles right now including ps3 exclusives.

3.We'll have to wait and see what the final version of BF3 looks like on consoles to determine whether this slide show presentation was lol-worthy. All that tech talk sounds impressive but I would've been more impressed had it been released after the release of the game and the proof was indeed there for all to see that the ps3 version looks and plays great. Or at least release some ps3 footage before doing this but whatever we'll soon find out this Fall.

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JetB1ackNewYear

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#42 JetB1ackNewYear
Member since 2007 • 2931 Posts
thats nice and all butttt, pc will still destory it and will all be happy :)
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shadi2020

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#43 shadi2020
Member since 2011 • 435 Posts

[QUOTE="killzowned24"][QUOTE="PAL360"]

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

T-razor1

it looks terrible.

1. Disagree with you that it looks terrible on PS3 based on video I've seen. Maybe slightly behind the 360 version but far from terrible

2. If it ultimately does look terrible at release don't blame Crytek. Blame it on Sony and the ps3 internal design *Waits for the "but the sony exclusives"*-- No. To me this game is graphically better then anything I've seen on consoles right now including ps3 exclusives.

3.We'll have to wait and see what the final version of BF3 looks like on consoles to determine whether this slide show presentation was lol-worthy. All that tech talk sounds impressive but I would've been more impressed had it been released after the release of the game and the proof was indeed there for all to see that the ps3 version looks and plays great. Or at least release some ps3 footage before doing this but whatever we'll soon find out this Fall.

thats your opinion ps3 exclusives look better then this for sure ps3 exclusives show what ps3 is capable of in gfx and nothing on consoles can rival them crytek at the end just give the ps3 AND pc a port of the game (look at the pc version - press start- ??!!) crytek didn't use PS3´s full capabilities not even half of it this is just a port like always 360 truly holding back the ps3
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shadi2020

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#44 shadi2020
Member since 2011 • 435 Posts

Thats great but what makes you think Crytek is not utilizing PS3´s full capabilities?

PAL360
ps3 got a port from 360 ps3 exclusives shows the system true power
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lhughey

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#45 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4862 Posts
So what happens when the 360 version of the game looks better?
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incuensuocha

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#46 incuensuocha
Member since 2009 • 1514 Posts
[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

hey I'm just saying ghost busters-ps3 lead console...and that turned out how?

bryn8150
I dun understand how this is connected to the title ?!!! they are saying the PS3 is capable of more when its archeticture is used effectively. On topic: Great that developers are getting used to it, bad PS3 ports are almost extinct + Great exclusives = bad days for X360 :D .

its purportedly been bad days for the 360 since the PS3 launch. how'd that work out so far? i think its time for Sony fans to abandon that ship, don't you think?

Abandon ship? What ship? What is there to abandon and why?
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mitu123

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#47 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts
So what happens when the 360 version of the game looks better?lhughey
It will be a field day for lems.
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Tessellation

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#48 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9297 Posts
and yet the xbxox 360 version will end up being better, tc sounds like is going to match the PC version :lol:.
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Innovazero2000

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#49 Innovazero2000
Member since 2006 • 3159 Posts
I wonder if Dice is doing what Crytek and Bungie did. That is go for a 1152x720 w/ 2x AA or TempAA frame buffer. You fit it entirely in the EDRAM and get all that raw and speedy bandwidth which gives the most amount of horsepower for what you want to do on screen. I doubt it though, maybe we'll find out later.
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TheEpicGoat

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#50 TheEpicGoat
Member since 2011 • 2006 Posts

It's a shame this game is going to be a shadow of the next cod