Warren/Sanders 2020?

If you see that as a Democratic "dreamteam" you don´t know how insane Sanders and Warren really are and how polarizing they both are especially among their own voters.

Also, why do you think Sanders will be satisfied with playing second violin? And Warren would even associate with him when she right now is the established democratic frontrunner and also the "moderate" voice people may follow.

But this country will be wrecked if Warren manages to weasel her way into the white house and be the first female president.

I was asking myself who would vote "no" first Jacanuk or JoshRMeyer. Guess you beat him to the punch.

Also, you do realize that they both have the highest polling out of all democratic candidates, even Joe Biden? They aren't polarizing, the left is ready to pick progressives. But of course, Trump fans are too busy picking white suprematists to represent them.

And how did the poll show when Trump was against Clinton? or how did it go with Sanders against Clinton.

Sanders and Warren may have their far-left support but Sanders has no draw for the average moderate democrat, and the whole "Destroy Trump because Trump is Trump" movement wont win elections.

I like both of them, but I'd prefer to see some younger candidates. The Democrats need young, energetic, progressive candidates to win. There's a massive untapped demographic of younger voters, most of whom despise Trump and Republicans, but they need candidates they feel represent them.

You want america to turn to Venezuela? because thats exactly what will happen if you allow anyone on the far left to take control of the office.

Why do you care so much about age? were you one of the people that voted Obama because you thought having a black president was "important"? how about you vote someone based on their ideas instead of superficial features that have 0 bearing in politics?

I personally want to see Elizabeth Warren be president, but think she comes off as too much of an intellectual for much of the country. Bernie has a better shot at winning.

Venezuela? Okay. I want to see America become a little more like Denmark, Norway, Germany, England or really any other first world country. We already have socialized military, police, fire, water, and infrastructure, and I want to add health insurance to that list like the rest of the first world. Profit motive just doesn't quite line up with public interest in these areas.

@needhealing: I voted yes a while ago.

You're not gonna get that from Bernie Sanders, not sure about Warren but given what I have seen from her so far I can say for sure she is NOT to be trusted, someone who lies willingly about her ancestry to get ahead in life is not someone with a moral compass.

We already have socialized military, police, fire, water, and infrastructure, and I want to add health insurance to that list like the rest of the first world. Profit motive just doesn't quite line up with public interest in these areas.

And It shouldn't, you as the owner of a private business should care about profit, because thats what ultimately generates an economy, profit margin provides incentive to produce goods. The problem with idiots like Bernie Sanders is that he is treating small businesses like they are multi-billion dollar businesses owned by the 1%, he wants to raise tax and minimum wage to such ridiculous extent that its going to kill off goods providers, and when that happens he will want to force people to provide goods because without it the government won't have a source of income to fund things such as police forces, health services and other things generated from tax revenue extracted from businesses (that are often lazy freeloaders benefit from and very VERY few in need), and then you get Venezuela, NOT Denmark or Germany.

And also I'm going to spare you the fate of false hope and tell you this, those two have 00% chance against Trump.

Ugh, no. Talk about holding my nose while voting, I'd still get a nice whiff of the stench. Personally, I hope Kristen Gillibrand gets the nomination. She's a serious progressive who's also thoughtful, measured, and able to work to win votes and backing for her legislation. I wouldn't be opposed to Kamala Harris either. I remember reading some articles about her a while back and thinking I disliked her, but I forgot what those articles were even about much less what I disliked. At any rate, she's more pragmatic and intelligent than either Warren or Bernie. Warren/Sanders would still be better than Trump/Pence, but that's like saying eating a raw turnip is better than eating a shit sandwich.

Intellectual? Hardly. In fact, I see both her and Bernie as unapologetically nonintellectual. My biggest problem with both of them is that they run their mouths nonstop about their own issues, but whenever someone brings up a serious objection to their position they refuse to admit they're wrong at best and start smearing the people questioning them at worst. I don't think either of them is going to risk coming off as too intellectual, they'll be too busy seeing who can shout louder.

@Dark_sageX: Venezuela's problem is their economy is built almost entirely around oil. Their economy was doing well when the price of oil was high, and has done poorly the last few years because the price dropped dramatically. With oil prices currently trending upward again, their economy will likely pick back up as well. Either way, they need to diversify. The US already has a very diverse economy so the Venezuela comparison is just a lazy talking point.

As for Warren, if Trump can grab pussies, skip out on paying debts, and use charitable contributions to buy $10,000 self portraits, I just don't think America gives two mouse farts about a politician's moral compass anymore.

As for Bernie, he's really not talking about doing anything unprecedented. Every first world nation and much of the third world has universal health coverage, and most of them provide tuition free higher education. This tends to lead to a higher percentage of the population getting higher paying jobs and subsequently increasing consumer demand and tax revenue. And one last point, during the most prosperous time in American history, the top income tax bracet was 70%. You know, back when America was great.

@Dark_sageX: "someone who lies willingly about her ancestry to get ahead in life is not someone with a moral compass."

Yeah, real Americans lie about other peoples' ancestry to get ahead.

Not sure since I know Bernie isn't going to run.

Warren has disappointed me a few times but when she gets shit done, she does it right.

We're gonna be stuck with Booker and Kamala Harris.

Warren is an "ex" Republican. No

Of course it's a good decision, precisely why it wont happen. This is the Democratic Party we're talking about here. Their most potent ability is taking a sledgehammer to their own interests.

Warren has credentials, and at least some kind of progressive track record. Sanders is a master at the class warfare rhetoric the left loves so much. Our current president and vice president are kind of similar, but with that said, I think Sanders in the lead would be a better option

I'd be fine with that. Bernie is really getting to be too old to run, but I respect the hell outta both him and Warren in general.

What about other commodities besides Oil? why was oil the oil commodities they had? in case oil depleted why didn't they have other commodities to fall back on that can hold the country, either until another profitable commodity or service was available or get better deals with their oil? you're ignoring that.

As for Warren, if Trump can grab pussies, skip out on paying debts, and use charitable contributions to buy $10,000 self portraits,

Regurgitated talking points that have either proven false or exaggerated by the left to propagate hate, none of this is either true or valid, but we can discuss this another time. But none of these are comparable to blatantly lying about your ancestry, its not just the lie thats the issue here, its the fact how messed up it is that someone's race determines whether they get into a university, and she is FOR affirmative action, and the fact that she continues to pretend to be native america shows that she is fine with racism.

As for Bernie, he's really not talking about doing anything unprecedented. Every first world nation and much of the third world has universal health coverage, and most of them provide tuition free higher education. This tends to lead to a higher percentage of the population getting higher paying jobs and subsequently increasing consumer demand and tax revenue. And one last point, during the most prosperous time in American history, the top income tax bracet was 70%. You know, back when America was great.

WAS being the operative talking point, why do you think its no longer 70%? and no I never implied what Bernie is doing is unprecedented or new or innovative, what I'm saying is that he is proposing ideas that will make america worse, far far worse, you will get your free services for maybe the first year or two, but then the country would collapse, for the reasons I have stated above, in a capitalistic nation like america high taxation is a poor move, america is a country with a culture of entrepreneurship, small business are encouraged and supported in america, in those European countries its the opposite, its very very VERY difficult to start a small business and most people either work for existing companies or work government jobs, and taxation plays a big role in it.

I think the issue with the left is that they focus too much on providing free services to the poor, when what you should be doing is encourage small businesses, you should focus more on job creation.

"I say, Warren. She'll get women out to vote, while Sanders will bring in the young people. Both will get a good chance to attract blue collar workers, though Trump would still win there."

This is why American politics is messed up. It stopped being about who's better suited to deliver the message you believe in and became about who "can get us the win!". I'd recommend trying to convince Beyoncé to run...people would vote for her. And she already has merchandise so that would make it easier on the campaign trail. She could sign at her own inauguration...so many advantages.

Are you deaf? Both Warren and Sanders have a clear message, if you're smart enough you'd know what it is. I don't have to mention that in my original post, hence why I didn't add it. Also, if you could read I did mention they are progresses to the left left. That's enough, as they seem to be the 2 best candidates to represent the new socialist Democratic Party. Reading is free.

I hope the Democrats run them. I wonder who they will blame when they lose the election.

You should compare the tax rate of the United States against the countries you mentioned. Our personal tax rate is 37% 0 Federal sales tax =37%. Norway Personal tax 38% Federal sales tax 25% = 63%, Germany Personal tax 47% federal sales tax 19 %=66% Denmark Personal tax 55.8% Federal sales tax 25% =80%. England's tax rate is very high it is to complicated to easily show. Yet with all these taxes you wnt the United States to be more like them.

Voted yes please so that can die out once and for all. If they don't lose in prime time, you will always have a group of people shouting about them (or people of their ilk) getting a chance.

Michael avannati is running for president

so I would like to see how this plays out because I like all three

yeah because separating kids from their parents, Russian investigations, random tariffs, being sympathetic to white nationalists, making health insurance skyrocket, ticking off all our allies, and speaking like a moron is really popular these days

America is not a developing country so why would we be anything like Venezuela if we enacted socialist policies? People are wanting us to be more like Western European or Scandinavian countries.

If you're going to make that argument then I'm going to argue that Trump being far right automatically means the country is going to turn into Chile under Pinochet. Let me know when Trump starts throwing dissidents out of helicopters.

I care about age because old people are out of touch with most working age, working class people and what they struggle with. Old people do not understand technology and we are living in the age of technology. Look at how easily old people were conned by Russian trolls spreading false information on the internet. The people in our government are too old and too out of touch.

you can't run a respected politician against trump because a campaign will not be based on policy and logic and reason. it will be a feces-flinging tv clown shit-show that trump would easily win against them.

like it or not, trump as officially lowered the bar for presidential standards. the only way the democrats would win would be to nominate someone equally as ridiculous.

Anyone going up against Trump should just skip the debates entirely. Do not debate with Trump. It legitimizes him and gives him attention, which is exactly what a narcissistic troll feeds on. I partially blame the media for Trump. They couldn't just shut the **** up about him, and it fed his narcissism and helped him get elected.

Hahaha no. Nope. No.

Agreed. I'd love to see a liberal in the office of president, but I also want to see shit get done and not ruined. Warren and Sanders? Noooooooooooooo thanks. They are the definition of tired, old, used up, establishment hacks that just won't go away.

Like you said, polarizing.

@mrbojangles25 said:

Hahaha no. Nope. No.

@Jacanuk said:

If you see that as a Democratic "dreamteam" you don´t know how insane Sanders and Warren really are and how polarizing they both are especially among their own voters.

Also, why do you think Sanders will be satisfied with playing second violin? And Warren would even associate with him when she right now is the established democratic frontrunner and also the "moderate" voice people may follow.

But this country will be wrecked if Warren manages to weasel her way into the white house and be the first female president.

Agreed. I'd love to see a liberal in the office of president, but I also want to see shit get done and not ruined. Warren and Sanders? Noooooooooooooo thanks. They are the definition of tired, old, used up, establishment hacks that just won't go away.

Like you said, polarizing.

could not disagree more.

I dont know about Sanders but everything you just said related to Warren is some grade A certifiable horseshit

@tryit said:

@mrbojangles25 said:

Hahaha no. Nope. No.

@Jacanuk said:

If you see that as a Democratic "dreamteam" you don´t know how insane Sanders and Warren really are and how polarizing they both are especially among their own voters.

Also, why do you think Sanders will be satisfied with playing second violin? And Warren would even associate with him when she right now is the established democratic frontrunner and also the "moderate" voice people may follow.

But this country will be wrecked if Warren manages to weasel her way into the white house and be the first female president.

Agreed. I'd love to see a liberal in the office of president, but I also want to see shit get done and not ruined. Warren and Sanders? Noooooooooooooo thanks. They are the definition of tired, old, used up, establishment hacks that just won't go away.

Like you said, polarizing.

could not disagree more.

I dont know about Sanders but everything you just said related to Warren is some grade A certifiable horseshit

I disagree, it's bullshit.

No you're right, though, I was thinking Pelosi for some reason. Warren is all right.

Pelosi and Sanders would be terrible.

plus we can all do without trump talking about his dick size during a presidential candidate debate.

@mrbojangles25 said:

@tryit said:

@mrbojangles25 said:

Hahaha no. Nope. No.

@Jacanuk said:

If you see that as a Democratic "dreamteam" you don´t know how insane Sanders and Warren really are and how polarizing they both are especially among their own voters.

Also, why do you think Sanders will be satisfied with playing second violin? And Warren would even associate with him when she right now is the established democratic frontrunner and also the "moderate" voice people may follow.

But this country will be wrecked if Warren manages to weasel her way into the white house and be the first female president.

Agreed. I'd love to see a liberal in the office of president, but I also want to see shit get done and not ruined. Warren and Sanders? Noooooooooooooo thanks. They are the definition of tired, old, used up, establishment hacks that just won't go away.

Like you said, polarizing.

could not disagree more.

I dont know about Sanders but everything you just said related to Warren is some grade A certifiable horseshit

I disagree, it's bullshit.

No you're right, though, I was thinking Pelosi for some reason. Warren is all right.

Pelosi and Sanders would be terrible.

yeah I agree with that.

Okay, first off, saying personal tax rate is a gross oversimplification. The way it works is that income below a certain threshold will be taxed at a certain rate, and income above that threshold at a higher rate, and income above that at a higher rate, and so on. So someone declaring a million dollars worth of income would pay 10% on the first $9,000, 15% on the income between that and $37,950, 25% on the income between that and $91,900, 33% on the income between that and $416,700, 35% on the income between that and $418,400, and 39.6% on anything above that. I'm assuming that your 37% figure refers to that last number, the rate on the top income, but that's not what someone earning a million dollars would pay. When you calculate it out, someone who made exactly one million dollars would pay 35% of their total income towards taxes. People earning less than that would pay less, going down each bracket.

Second, combining income and consumption taxes is patently ridiculous. Consumption taxes, by definition, are a portion of the money you spend on consumer goods, so if you spend zero dollars your consumption tax is zero dollars. The way you frame it makes it look like everyone pays the consumption tax on their entire income, which is a huge exaggeration. Furthermore, people in different income levels spend their money on different things. Poorer people tend to spend a disproportionate amount of their income on things that are covered by consumption taxes, whereas richer people tend to spend money on things that are not such as savings, stock investments, college tuition, charitable giving (often to avoid paying taxes), and political spending. Therefore, percentage of your income that you pay towards a consumption tax will depend on what you bought. For poorer individuals, that number could be quite close to the actual consumption tax rate, while for wealthier individuals it is usually quite lower.

Third, if our "combined" tax rate is practically half of every country you mentioned, then why were conservatives whining that our tax rate was higher than every other developed nation? Could it be because they were selectively omitting consumption taxes and only focusing on income tax in order to create a false comparison and drive down income taxes on the very wealthy? The fact is that we made up for the higher top rate by not having a national consumption tax, which is extremely healthy for a consumer-driven economy and for income inequality in general. If I had to pick another country's scheme to go with, I'd choose Germany or Denmark as they combine a relatively high top income tax with a relatively low consumption tax. However, I think the best system is a high top tax rate with fairly calculated gradations. We succeeded with that system here in the U.S. in the past generation and we can do it again.

@undefined: What initiatives would you like the next administration to take? Are those two likely to start and make progress on those goals?

Because there wasn't an infrastructure to extract other commodities. That has been an issue since the early years of the 20th century.

Venezuela was one of the fastest growing economies from 2004 to 2010-ish (and quite possibly THE fastest from 2004 to 2008). The government should had foreseen the possibility of oil prices falling and invest on other commodities or industries, sure, hindsight is always 20/20, but that mistake has little to do with the evil communist government with the president who eats babies for breakfast and is also anti-semitic, even though he always talks about his jewish ancestry. That same mistake was made by previous right wing and centrist governments.

Also, keep in mind that there's a de-facto embargo on their accounts (public and private) in the US and most of Europe. You try feeding your family without being able to hold on to a bank account for more than two weeks and tell me how that goes.

@Jacanuk: they want everything for wanted , to get lobbying out of the government , and single payer healthcare.

How is this in any form crazy?

@Dark_sageX: you clearly don't know eat happen in Venezuela or how the us government works.

I'm really worried that you're right and we are going to end up with president Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.

To be fair it´s a bit more serious when a potential presidential candidate lies about it and have used it to get ahead in her career. Not to mention it´s a mockery to all the real native Americans.

You mean why is a socialist America crazy? because no one else wants it except them and the far-left.

dude...we already have it.

its just highly leaned toward corporate socialism instead of citizen socialism

so you are for corporate socialism?

@needhealing: Why so angry? I see Sanders as that "old man yelling at clouds" meme; you clearly don't. Go vote for him, I really don't care...I don't live in the US. As long as he keeps to his own country I'll be happier with him than I am with Trump. I just think Democrats could do better, but when Dems themselves tell me they can't...well, that's it then :)

History isn't going to repeat itself with trump.................

Keep beliving .

If Warren is the best your side can come up with, I am not too afraid Trump vote get re-elected.

He won't. But keep BELIEVING. Note the spelling.

You were 1000 percent positive he wouldn't get elected the first time.

I hope sanders/warren run as an independents. Split that democratic vote!

I gave Americans the benefit of the doubt but they were less intelligent than I suspected. However........he's a disaster. Only his hard core base supports him. He's not taking Democratic nor Independent votes this time.

Well, polls disagree with you there, but no surprise.

You are almost a beacon for the far-left.

@LJS9502_basic: Calling Americans unintelligent because they voted for someone other than your pick. Classic... but not classy.

His base was the uneducated vote. That's a fact.

That just means you are a far right wing voter. You can't see moderation.