Thomas Jefferson statue removed from NYC hall.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/11/23/thomas-jefferson-statue-removed-nyc-slaveowner/

Yep, who didn't see this coming. I expect they will go after all the founding fathers eventually.

@silentchief: Are you concerned about it?

Who cares.

Good

I don't understand this ancestor worship.

Don't like this, erasing American History.

We can't just remove important figures from American history because the 1700s were very grim societal standards when compared to modern day standards.

Yes slavery is evil and horrible, but you have to come to terms that at that point of time in history it was a common practice in the world. It's even still happening currently in some places in the world. You can't just get rid of important historical figures of how this nation came to be because society of the past was not up to the standard of modern times hundreds of years later... We can learn from the past and analyze both the good and the bad.

@girlusocrazy: So kinda comparing our founding fathers and such to Hitler...never would have guess this from the left...

@girlusocrazy: I understand Thomas Jefferson is known well currently, (lol at the $2 bill reference those haven't been made in a long time, I do carry one in my wallet for last 15 years for good luck) but if we continue to pull down the founding fathers of this nation, it's beginnings will become more blurred to future generations. Thomas Jefferson was one of the authors of the Declaration of independence. He is a very important historical figure in how this nation came to be and of the core concepts on what it was striving to be at that time on the world stage.

I do worry that the more we hide these figures out of some virtue signaling move we are hurting the fundamentals that these men based our blueprint on. The constitution, the declaration of independence, these are extremely important to teach to our kids and the people who wrote these documents should be respected. Nobody of the 1700s is going to live up to the standards we have set for society in today's age. Nobody.

I also think comparing Thomas Jefferson to Hitler is wrong. Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant man and many of his ideas were world changing at the time, not everything was good. These times were much darker than today's age, but he should not be portrayed as some sort of villain. He was a product of the time he was born in.

Wow, did you strain your back reaching for that outrage?

I am concerned who the left deems worthy of having a statue. They seem to have an odd choice for heroes.

That's a bit much TBH.

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

@silentchief: Whose statue are they replacing this one with?

Who knows.

Probably a lifelong felon who they have made into a martyr.

@silentchief: Perhaps the child rapist that was recently killed, he was such a misunderstood hero.

How can you be upset about who they choose as heroes if you don't even know who it is?

I know it isn't fun to hear but quite a few of the founding fathers were actually not that cool.

No one is perfect. They aren't celebrated for their entirety but for the founding of the country. If Jefferson is such a bad dude then does that mean we throw out the Declaration?

Man what a fucking leap, lol. Neverminding that the Declaration was an article drafted and signed by multiple individuals, it isn't a statue of the Declaration, it's a statue of the guy with the pen, who is well established to have been pretty severely uncool. Deciding not to hero worship Jefferson does not ruin the foundation of America.

I'd also point out it's not even like they're destroying or defacing it, they're just taking it down, it will be kept in preservation. Since they're not throwing out the statue, why would you conclude we would also throw out the Declaration by proxy?

This is just a poorly presented slippery slope argument.

@LJS9502_basic: Taking down monuments of men who enslaved people and codified slavery's existence/legality into our government seems kind of natural for a country slowly moving past it's racial history.

Who cares? Stop this chicken little. Find something important to cry about.

That's been the plan. Paint the founders as racists so they can claim they founded a country based on it to garner support for it's destruction. We told you it was going to be the ultimate target and here we are. Nobody cares that Jefferson banned the importation of new slaves into his state, lobbied against slavery, and put immense amount of efforts into abolishing it. His efforts lead are what eventually lead to emancipation. But facts do not care to these people.

The posts above prove my point.

Lol like the Tucker Carlson show? Cry more commie.

I wonder what his slaves thought when he ran that past them on the first draft.

Dennis Hastert was killed? A bit too early for new GOP monuments I'd wager.

There was honestly no reason to take Jefferson down. The question is when does it stop?

Which was, unfortunately, the societal norm back then. Which laws are you referring to as to codifying slavery? He did want to end slavery though by gradual means. His 1824 law banning slavery in new territories failed by one vote. He signed the bill in 1807 banning the Atlantic Slave Trade. As far back as 1769 he influenced a member of the General Assembly to propose the emancipation of slaves which did not pass. His initial draft of the Declaration attacked King George for the slave trade but Georgia and South Carolina wouldn't sign unless it was removed.

Is slavery not a reason?

He fought against it more then he promoted it. So no i wouldn't say that's a valid reason.

I can't recall anyone in the GoP asking for him to have a statue. However you have a statue of a life long felon in NJC as if he was some type of hero.

Ah, but it IS a reason, now we're just quibbling about degrees!

The people objecting to the statue have a point, you're merely arguing that his positives outweigh his negatives and make him worthy of a statue.

No not really. He was monumental in the creation of this country. They far outweigh the negatives. Should we take down MLK statues because he cheated on his wife countless times? Should we remove the statue of GF because he was a lifelong violent felon?

No they don't. He has a statue because of his importance in the founding of this country. Also you ignored my prior post.

@LJS9502_basic: Which post did I ignore? I mean, it's a public forum so we're all free to respond to what we wish, but which which point did you want a response to?

As for this reply:

There are a lot of people important to the founding of the country that don't have statues, and certainly ones that don't have statues erected by who erected the one of Jefferson. Statues can serve many purposes such as reverence or intimidation, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to object to building monuments to someone who enslaved my ancestors. This isn't boiling down to much more than the South Park episode over retaining a racist a nd violent flag design due to it's historical significance.

@mattbbpl: Yep, You ignored it.

Didn't think I'd see the day when i would agree with you on something.

Hell has frozen over. :P

Ignored what? I'm trying to understand what you're referring to so that I can respond. Why are you being cagey?

Revisionists, and presentism at work.

Do you think that really applies to statues? I don't really view statues as some sort of historical truth, just something flashy to celebrate something.

If they were removing him from textbooks, sure, that'd be a reason to get upset.

Could honestly go either way with this issue; a statue of him doesn't really bug me, but at the same time we shouldn't celebrate someone like him.

I guess it comes down to how you view statues; as something that deifies people, or something that just serves as a historical reminder.

We shouldn't celebrate Thomas Jefferson?

Maybe you should remove all founding father statues and replace them with statues of John Locke since pretty much everything stems from him in the US system.

Possibly also including the hypocritical position on slavery.

agreed well said

Jefferson knew it was immoral, but that's where the world was at the time. If we judge people of the past by the same standards we have today, everyone is canceled and not to be permitted a statue or painting?

@silentchief: lol. Immature, what i expected from you. This is a nothingburger kid.

@SUD123456: John Locke was also a brilliant man who was a product of his time, he did not decide the standards he was born into. I respect him and would hope nobody would try to remove statues of him either. Liberty is a great thing and it changed the world.