Islamophobia grows: Shootings at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

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#51 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

@Jag85 said:

@uninspiredcup: The Verge article seems to be more-or-less pointing out most of the things that you just pointed out. The writer seems very much self-aware that the article itself is contributing to the issue, ironically, but there's really no other way to address the issue without writing an article about it. The point of the article is that the mass media is essentially playing into the hands of the terrorists.

I might also add that it's strikingly similar to how the media played into the hands of ISIS a few years ago. Some of the tactics that ISIS previously used to spread its propaganda are now being mimicked by this new breed of alt-right extremists, right down to the barbaric horrific videos, which ISIS presented in a movie-like fashion and now the alt-right is presenting in an FPS-game-like fashion.

As for Pewdiepie, I don't think it's wrong for the article to point out his previous anti-Semitism controversy. That "death to all Jews" shit may have sounded like some funny joke to him, but that's just fucked-up to most ordinary folks. And that's why he has many alt-right fans in the first place. But he didn't care about the consequences, because the controversy helped get him more views and subs to stay on top (although he won't be on top for long, with T-Series on his tail).

It was actually the wrong article titled - https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18266859/new-zealand-shooting-video-social-media-manipulation

Both are pieces of shit though, as are Polygon. The problem with PewPewDie' for me wasn't his joke, I honestly couldn't give a shit and I think most people aren't dumb enough to take it seriously... The method of paying poor people do it, him being a millionaire. It was porn poverty, much like TV showing benefits Britain or Jeremy Kyle. exploiting the weakest members of society for amusement from one of the most privileged. That, not the joke itself was abhorrent. It was blunt and not particularly funny. But certainly wasn't vomiting in a bucket over it.

Jew jokes do not equate to mass shooting and the shooter himself was deliberately using that false equation in the hopes for hyperbole. And has absolutely no evidence of anything to do with the shooting, which gets linked to portray a guilt by association.

The shooter himself, as with many seeks attention with a grandsons self-importance. Linking it to PewPewDie, making it a point to bring up (a joke), gives the man exactly what he wants.

The Verge being aware of it, while trying to lip around it "But it’s also clear that if any of his many followers had missed the shootings, they were now aware of them., shows pretty clear their intent and doesn't cancel it out.

For them it's both a chance to attack him (broadening the shooters message), and springboard censoring the internet, giving him that culture war acceleration he so desperately wants.

They might as well have sent him a box of Ferrero RoCher.

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#52 Edited by Jacanuk (18283 posts) -
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think he'll ever be released, at least I would hope not. Like you say, that would be a mockery.

Ya, let´s hope not

As someone else said let´s hope New Zeland is not as weak in their justice system as Norway, because it´s insane to think that the "noname mentioned" may soon walk the streets again.

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#53 Posted by Mandzilla (4037 posts) -

@Jacanuk: If there's any justice then he won't, I think he appears in court tomorrow.

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#54 Posted by Jacanuk (18283 posts) -
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: If there's any justice then he won't, I think he appears in court tomorrow.

Will be interesting to follow that court appearance.

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#55 Posted by Mikey132 (5180 posts) -

@Jag85: Just out of though, the guy said he was a communist, then anarchist, then libertarian, and finally becoming an eco-fascists. Where does he become part of this so-called alt-right? Being white and a nationalist can fall on both sides of the spectrum. Or are you just programmed to blame the right for this kind of act. Admit it, you saw he was white and you never bothered to check if it was known that he wasn't a right winger. More like a delusional ATIFA thug.

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#56 Edited by Mandzilla (4037 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Yes, indeed.

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#57 Edited by Jag85 (13370 posts) -
@Mikey132 said:

@KungfuKitten:

LOL, left...right...left..right. Sooo many people are caught up in left/right nonsense they miss the fact that this is called a CULTURE CLASH. Islam and The West do not mix, they are oil and water. This doesn't end through discussion, it ends when one culture becomes dominant over the other. EXPECT this to happen more and more in western countries.

Frankly, if you want a left right argument, why do liberals support Islam, which is right-wing authoritarian?

Parts of this post look like things lifted straight out of the terrorist's manifesto posted on 8chan, calling for a culture war between Islam and the West, claiming they cannot co-exist, talking about one culture becoming dominant over the other, and criticizing liberals for allowing Muslim immigration. Would it be safe to presume that you agree with some of the terrorist's views? Ironically, these same views were also echoed by ISIS a few years ago.

You're conflating Islam with Wahhabism/Salafism. The former is a religion, while the latter are authoritarian political ideologies. So who are the people supporting Wahhabism/Salafism? Right-wing parties like the Republicans in the US and Conservatives in the UK. And who are the people opposing Wahhabism/Salafism? Left-wing parties like Labour in the UK and Democrats in the US. The people you should really be criticizing are right-wing parties who support/arm/fund various Wahhabi/Salafi groups & regimes.

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#58 Edited by Jag85 (13370 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Come to think of it, I think the mass media itself may have played a role in drawing the alt-right to Pewdiepie in the first place. The way the mass media portrayed him as some kind of racist/anti-semite/white-supremacist ironically ended up drawing a lot of alt-right/white-supremacists to Pewdiepie, viewing him as some kind of ally to their cause... Yet Pewdiepie didn't really seem to mind, because the controversy and negative attention ironically helped him get more subs and views. And he has occasionally pandered to the alt-right, like collabing with Ben Shapiro and more recently mocking Brie Larson. The alt-right make up a big chunk of his subscribers, and he didn't want to hurt his sub/view count by denouncing or disassociating from them.

Either way, the terrorists' shout-out seems like it was intended to capitalize on the Pewdiepie vs. T-Series battle on YouTube. Pewdiepie and T-Series have nearly 90 million subscribers each, the vast majority of whom are impressionable youngsters, and "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" has become something of a warcry/meme for Pewdiepie fans. By referencing this meme, the terrorists' have essentially inserted themselves right into the middle of this YouTube battle, allowing their message to spread among a huge potential audience of impressionable youngsters.

I think Pewd could salvage or damage-control the situation if he either denounces the alt-right/white-supremacists, or maybe does a fundraiser for the Christchurch mosque... Pewd previously did a fundraiser for impoverished Indian kids in response to accusations of anti-Indian racism (his T-Series diss track had some offensive Indian jokes, and there were Pewd fans making racist anti-Indian remarks). If he does the same thing for the Christchurch mosque, that could go a long way to restoring some of his reputation, as well as help prevent the terrorists' propaganda from spreading among his young fanbase.

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#59 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think he'll ever be released, at least I would hope not. Like you say, that would be a mockery.

Ya, let´s hope not

As someone else said let´s hope New Zeland is not as weak in their justice system as Norway, because it´s insane to think that the "noname mentioned" may soon walk the streets again.

Don't judge Norway's justice system to harsh. Rehab works. Now the laws that are aimed at those like him tested. I hope New Zealand has laws as well to deal with this type crime.

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#60 Edited by ad1x2 (7406 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: If there's any justice then he won't, I think he appears in court tomorrow.

Will be interesting to follow that court appearance.

I think he will try to make it a media spectacle if cameras are allowed in there. He is clearly a deranged murderer, but he also admitted in his manifesto that he wanted this attack to cause division around the world, especially in the United States.

One thing he was looking forward to do is create division over here over differences in opinion on the Second Amendment, according to this NBC article:

It also condemns attempts to restrict firearms in the U.S. and pledges to start an American race war.

"This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines," the manifesto said.

It appears he was anticipating how politicians would react to the shooting, with the left pushing for more gun control if not an outright repeal of the Second Amendment, and the right pushing back from their attempts and chaos beyond simple partisan differences ensuing as a result. So far, the Internet is taking the bait with people arguing with each other over who's fault it is.

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#61 Posted by Jacanuk (18283 posts) -
@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think he'll ever be released, at least I would hope not. Like you say, that would be a mockery.

Ya, let´s hope not

As someone else said let´s hope New Zeland is not as weak in their justice system as Norway, because it´s insane to think that the "noname mentioned" may soon walk the streets again.

Don't judge Norway's justice system to harsh. Rehab works. Now the laws that are aimed at those like him tested. I hope New Zealand has laws as well to deal with this type crime.

Interesting topic you bring up here. Do you really think considering who it is, that "rehab" will work? and the guy who when he comes out is still in the prime of his life will not be a constant threat.

Also, how do you think the victims family and friends would feel if they met this guy or this current one on the street walking down to buy a soda in the local Walmart.

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#62 Posted by Jacanuk (18283 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: If there's any justice then he won't, I think he appears in court tomorrow.

Will be interesting to follow that court appearance.

I think he will try to make it a media spectacle if cameras are allowed in there. He is clearly a deranged murderer, but he also admitted in his manifesto that he wanted this attack to cause division around the world, especially in the United States.

One thing he was looking forward to do is create division over here over differences in opinion on the Second Amendment, according to this NBC article:

It also condemns attempts to restrict firearms in the U.S. and pledges to start an American race war.

"This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines," the manifesto said.

It appears he was anticipating how politicians would react to the shooting, with the left pushing for more gun control if not an outright repeal of the Second Amendment, and the right pushing back from their attempts and chaos beyond simple partisan differences ensuing as a result. So far, the Internet is taking the bait with people arguing with each other over who's fault it is.

Ya, I think you are right, he will probably look to his "heroes" and make a public spectacle out of it. Which hopefully won´t be allowed.

But something like this makes me glad the US have the DP.

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#63 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (1801 posts) -

@Jag85 said:

As for Pewdiepie, I don't think it's wrong for the article to point out his previous anti-Semitism controversy. That "death to all Jews" shit may have sounded like some funny joke to him, but that's just fucked-up to most ordinary folks. And that's why he has many alt-right fans in the first place. But he didn't care about the consequences, because the controversy helped get him more views and subs to stay on top (although he won't be on top for long, with T-Series on his tail).

And this has to do with the shooting..how?

They do this with Pewdiepie all the time at The Verge. Anytime its found out that some less reputable people happen to like one of the most popular entertainers in the world, he gets dragged for it. It makes no sense.

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#64 Posted by Sevenizz (3657 posts) -

@Jag85: ‘After a string of massacres perpetrated by white-supremacist terrorists’

Hate to defend such a group, but where’s this ‘string’ of attacks?

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#65 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15954 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

@Jag85: ‘After a string of massacres perpetrated by white-supremacist terrorists’

Hate to defend such a group, but where’s this ‘string’ of attacks?

An analysis of the Global Terrorism Database by researchers at the University of Maryland published in 2017 shows a “sharp increase” in the share of attacks by right-wing extremists, from 6% in the 2000s to 35% in the 2010s. The share of attacks by religious extremists also increased, from 9% to 53% between the two decades.

Meanwhile, the share of attacks by left-wing terrorists and environmentalist extremists dropped from 64% in the 2000s to 12% in the 2010s.

Researchers point out that many recent attacks on US soil are carried out by individuals without any strong links to a terrorist organization—known popularly as “lone wolves.”

The study defines “right-wing extremism” as “violence in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent,” including anti-globalism, white supremacy, nationalism, suspicion of the government, and beliefs in conspiracies.

An analysis by Quartz of the same Global Terrorism Database confirmed that the trend persisted in 2017, when most attacks in the US were committed by right-wing extremists. Out of 65 incidents last year, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.

https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-more-us-terror-attacks-by-right-wing-and-religious-extremists/

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#66 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

Interesting topic you bring up here. Do you really think considering who it is, that "rehab" will work? and the guy who when he comes out is still in the prime of his life will not be a constant threat.

Also, how do you think the victims family and friends would feel if they met this guy or this current one on the street walking down to buy a soda in the local Walmart.

He will be an old man if released. Guy is 40 today. Still has some 15-16 years left, with possibly 5 years added for as long as deemed necessary.

I have absolutely no idea if it will work. Neither will I be in a position to decide if it has helped or not. I will leave that to professionals, and only voice mine if public opinion matters on this case. With that said I will say what I have said before. I expect him to be released one day. Prepare myself mentally if I need that.

I certainly hope that victims, family, and friends are able to move past this as well. I think they are. He won't be the first murderer to walk free again, neither the last one either.

But alas I know that I am speaking to deaf ears.

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#67 Edited by Zaryia (8272 posts) -

Suspects in a pair of deadly New Zealand mosque shootings wrote a manifesto that he supported President Trump "as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose,"

Not even surprised anymore. Sigh.

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#68 Edited by Jag85 (13370 posts) -
@Sevenizz said:

@Jag85: ‘After a string of massacres perpetrated by white-supremacist terrorists’

Hate to defend such a group, but where’s this ‘string’ of attacks?

Right-wing terrorists killed three times more people in US than Islamists in past decade with attacks soaring in 2018, report says

Right-wing terrorism and/or white-supremacist terrorism are on the rise. There is a pattern of targeting religious places of worship belonging to minority groups, including mosques, synagogues, and black churches, as well as places perceived as "liberal", such as schools, colleges, and summer camps. In other words, they really hate minorities (especially Muslims, Jews, and blacks) and liberals (especially feminists and "SJWs").

@vl4d_l3nin said:

And this has to do with the shooting..how?

They do this with Pewdiepie all the time at The Verge. Anytime its found out that some less reputable people happen to like one of the most popular entertainers in the world, he gets dragged for it. It makes no sense.

He's not at all to blame for what happened. These savages would've carried out the attack regardless of whether or not they were Pewdiepie fans. But what he's being dragged for is for having fans like this in the first place. If he didn't pull that fucked-up "death to all Jews" stunt, then he wouldn't be in the mess he's in today. He may have saw it as a joke back then, but many alt-right/far-right/Neo-Nazi types took it seriously, thinking he was an "ally" to their cause. Yet Pewd kept playing dumb, ignoring how these lunatics are trying to associate themselves with him, sometimes even pandered to them (like that Ben Shapiro thing), and made no real attempt to denounce them or distance himself, because he didn't want to lose subs. So yeah, it's unfortunate that he got name-dropped by these savages, but that's a consequence of his own irresponsible antics.

But of course, their manifesto also cited video games, including name-drops like Fortnite and Spyro the Dragon, and their horrific ISIS-like video almost looks like some fucked-up FPS game. I'm actually surprised the mass-media isn't going after video games this time, despite this being the most video-game-like massacre to date, but that's probably because they're too busy going after Pewdiepie. If the mass media instead went after video games though, that could be disastrous, as it could inspire more copycat mass-shooters trying to mimmick FPS games. So in a way, Pewdiepie might actually be taking a hit for the greater good (covering for video games, and potentially preventing copycat FPS-wannabe mass-shootings).

But the danger of the mass-media blaming Pewdiepie is that it could push some of his young impressionable fans towards alt-right radicalization, which may have been the intent behind the shout-out, because they might have guessed Pewdiepie would get blame from the left and his fans would come to his defense. The ball is ultimately in Pewd's court, however, depending on how he chooses to respond to the situation. I think it would be a good idea if he did what he did during the T-Series battle, when he did a fundraiser to help Indian kids, but this time for the mosque and/or the victims' families. That would be a great way to restore some of his reputation.

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#69 Posted by SUD123456 (5288 posts) -

@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:

Interesting topic you bring up here. Do you really think considering who it is, that "rehab" will work? and the guy who when he comes out is still in the prime of his life will not be a constant threat.

Also, how do you think the victims family and friends would feel if they met this guy or this current one on the street walking down to buy a soda in the local Walmart.

He will be an old man if released. Guy is 40 today. Still has some 15-16 years left, with possibly 5 years added for as long as deemed necessary.

I have absolutely no idea if it will work. Neither will I be in a position to decide if it has helped or not. I will leave that to professionals, and only voice mine if public opinion matters on this case. With that said I will say what I have said before. I expect him to be released one day. Prepare myself mentally if I need that.

I certainly hope that victims, family, and friends are able to move past this as well. I think they are. He won't be the first murderer to walk free again, neither the last one either.

But alas I know that I am speaking to deaf ears.

These type of people are never getting out.

Even if they did they wouldn't survive 24 hrs.

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#70 Posted by CreasianDevaili (4418 posts) -

Seems to be a big debate over social media due to the live feed on facebook. I think there is merit, and I generally hate using social media, and this is the only forum I've posted in for years. But....

For how many are up in arms over the video, after having watched it for a few seconds before having to back out, why in the blaze of hell would people click to watch it in the first place? It's like those people who slow down to leer out of their car windows in the hopes of not seeing a dead body in a bad car wreck?

Perhaps if we're going to go balls to the wall on media creators that make and put up this insanity/hatred/brutality we need to start going after people who click to watch it too. We do it for child pornography, and there is damn good reason since it helps create a tangible demand for more from the attention given.

I can't be the only one disappointed at how many purposely gave this bastard affirmation.

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#71 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

@CreasianDevaili said:

Seems to be a big debate over social media due to the live feed on facebook. I think there is merit, and I generally hate using social media, and this is the only forum I've posted in for years. But....

For how many are up in arms over the video, after having watched it for a few seconds before having to back out, why in the blaze of hell would people click to watch it in the first place? It's like those people who slow down to leer out of their car windows in the hopes of not seeing a dead body in a bad car wreck?

Perhaps if we're going to go balls to the wall on media creators that make and put up this insanity/hatred/brutality we need to start going after people who click to watch it too. We do it for child pornography, and there is damn good reason since it helps create a tangible demand for more from the attention given.

I can't be the only one disappointed at how many purposely gave this bastard affirmation.

Not sure I agree with this, as graphic stuff can serve as legitimate documentation. For example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike Or historical stuff like Holocaust images, or Cambodia, Bosnia etc...

I mean, I absolutely agree that people going out of their way to watch it are pieces of shit, garbage. No question. As are the media like "The Sun" using it under the guise of "informing", when really, they know tits, celeb news and guts sell papers, they just pretend to have a moral code, as long as it's self-serving.

But when you start dictating decency, you don't want it to turn into some Orwellian nightmare where that excuse can be used to deny information to the public domain. Which is what happens in some countries.

This image is famous as hell for example, iconic. Not in China.

Internationally, the image of the lone man in front of the tank has come to symbolize the events at Tiananmen Square in 1989[14][20] and is widely considered one of the most iconic images of all time.[1][2][3]

A PBS interview of six experts noted that the memory of the Tiananmen Square protests appears to have faded in China, especially among younger Chinese people, due to government censorship.[21] Images of the protest on the Internet have been censored in China.[14] When undergraduate students at Peking University, which was at the center of the incident, were shown copies of the iconic photograph 16 years afterwards, they were "genuinely mystified."[22] One of the students said that the image was "artwork." It is noted in the documentary Frontline: The Tank Man that he whispered to the student next to him "89," which led the interviewer to surmise that the student may have concealed his knowledge of the event.

It has been suggested that the "Unknown Rebel," if still alive, never made himself known as he is unaware of his international recognition due to Chinese media suppression of events relating to government protest.[14]

At and after the events in the square, the PSB treated members of the international press roughly, confiscating and destroying all the film they could find, and forced the signing of confessions to offences such as photography during martial law, punishable by long imprisonment.[23]

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#72 Posted by Chutebox (44497 posts) -
@CreasianDevaili said:

Seems to be a big debate over social media due to the live feed on facebook. I think there is merit, and I generally hate using social media, and this is the only forum I've posted in for years. But....

For how many are up in arms over the video, after having watched it for a few seconds before having to back out, why in the blaze of hell would people click to watch it in the first place? It's like those people who slow down to leer out of their car windows in the hopes of not seeing a dead body in a bad car wreck?

Perhaps if we're going to go balls to the wall on media creators that make and put up this insanity/hatred/brutality we need to start going after people who click to watch it too. We do it for child pornography, and there is damn good reason since it helps create a tangible demand for more from the attention given.

I can't be the only one disappointed at how many purposely gave this bastard affirmation.

Right there with you. Long time ago when I was younger I watched a video of some terrorists beheading a man. Just stupid. I'll never forget that unfortunately. I hate watching anyone get hurt at all.

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#73 Posted by CreasianDevaili (4418 posts) -
@Chutebox said:

Right there with you. Long time ago when I was younger I watched a video of some terrorists beheading a man. Just stupid. I'll never forget that unfortunately. I hate watching anyone get hurt at all.

My older sisters did that to me. I still don't know who it was and frankly I'm never going to research it, but they said watch this and I came in the room and they hit play. I walked right back out but I still remember those screams.

I'll never ever ever fathom the curiosity.

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#74 Edited by KungfuKitten (26430 posts) -

@anthonyautumns said:

Condolences to the victims.

Loading Video...

I hope things haven't gotten that far yet but I share some of his concerns. I could see how this was meant to 'accelerate the culture war' and I hope that everyone who does not belong to one of the more problematic extremist groupings/echo chambers on the left OR right (which is luckily like 90% of the population in the west?) are wise enough to condemn acts of violence regardless of political groupings. To condemn clear acts of racism regardless of political groupings. To condemn corporate/private/governmental censorship regardless of political groupings. And that we do NOT repeat the critical mistake that some of these sites/people make to blame entire groups for the wrongdoings of one/a few.

I sincerely hope that journalists are not going to use this material to try and get people to 'pick a side' or escalate the situation. However considering the articles we've seen the past 2 years it may be the case that some of the more prominent ones will... This means we will have to do more fact-checking of media articles, raise discussion groups that stimulate diversity of thought with only the lightest form of moderation, and focus on de-escalation of the situation by recognizing that any 'side' that you are given as an option to 'pick' here (based on real black&white thinking: you are with us or against us) is a false choice. Be wary of presumptions and false accusations. The world is not black&white, it's demonstrably not the case. Also be very clear to third parties that having criticism or voicing concerns about anything (including any movement or grouping) does not mean you automatically belong to 'the enemy' and that this is not only counterproductive and putting their heads in the sand, but also a sign of dangerous radicalization.

(For freethinkers or critical thinkers online, based on years of experience from moving around within radicalized groups:)

In case you find yourself mixed in with radicalized people. This mindset will likely get you kicked out of more and more platforms, services and places of 'discussion' that are lost to radicalized thinking. You shouldn't be quiet about it, but you don't need to look for those groups to stir chaos. Just take note how far things have gone, but don't let it upset you too much if you can help it. You have to stay calm at all costs despite being called names, made fun of, intentionally misinterpreted and being accused of many things that upset you greatly, likely by more than one individual (of the moderation team), and generally placed in a position where you cannot defend yourself in a fair manner. All of these things are especially upsetting to people who support freethinking. Radicalization is designed that way. So take regular breaks. Defending yourself is ill advised either way, because it makes it all about finding everything potentially wrong with you (the start of the inquisition), instead of the topic you were talking about, or the presumptions made. Focus on the topic or the accusations and the reasoning behind them. So don't be defensive or aggressive but just be calm and reasonable despite it all. Always keep in mind to separate your thoughts from your person, and their thoughts from their person. You're talking to an idea first and foremost, and the idea may be a little ill.

If you find yourself in such a situation it's not about 'winning' the verbal fight nor about the people you talk to who already made up their mind about everything. But it's primarily about the people who read the conversation. You must by no means give them any ammunition (even though they will find plenty on their own without you having done anything wrong) to brand you as the 'evil one' in the situation, for the sake of non-radicalized people who may run into the conversation. Think about how it makes them look to attack someone instead of their arguments. To throw around insults while you don't.

This is only if you accidentally run into radical individuals. If you want to purposefully and actively engage with thoroughly radicalized people, I would probably advice against it because that requires training. (Radicalization through the internet is like a linguistic virus specialized in escalation. It is prone to backfire or (get you to) escalate if engaged with in a normal manner, and will not respond well -or at all- to anything reasonable or demonstrably factual. (I know, it's crazy.) Which is why I say it's about the people seeing you, not the people you find yourself talking to.) If you spot someone who is trying to de-escalate or be reasonable, applaud them. We are a massive majority of people but we tend to be so, so quiet. Don't be quiet. I think we should be active in preventing escalation, and with the current state of platforms for 'discussion' or expression, other critical thinkers need your support. And when you see other people escalate because of wild accusations and insults thrown their way, or labeling them as part of a group without their own admission, try and keep them from getting roped into responding in an emotional state.

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#75 Posted by AnthonyAutumns (1679 posts) -
@KungfuKitten said:
@anthonyautumns said:

Condolences to the victims.

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I hope things haven't gotten that far yet. I could see how this was meant to 'accelerate the culture war' and I hope that everyone who does not belong to one of the more problematic extremist groupings/echo chambers on the left OR right (which is luckily like 90% of the population in the west?) are wise enough to condemn acts of violence regardless of political groupings. To condemn clear acts of racism regardless of political groupings. To condemn corporate/private/governmental censorship regardless of political groupings. And that we do NOT repeat the VITAL mistake that some of these sites/people make to blame entire groups for the wrongdoings of one/a few.

I sincerely hope that journalists are not going to use this material to try and get people to 'pick a side' or escalate the situation. However considering the articles we've seen the past 2 years it may be the case that some of the more prominent ones will... This means that fact-checking of media articles, raising discussion groups without heavy moderation, and de-escalation of the situation by recognizing that any 'side' that you are given as an option to 'pick' here (based on real black&white thinking: you are with us or against us) is a false choice. Also be very clear to third parties that having criticism or voicing concerns does not mean you automatically belong to 'the enemy' and that this is a sign of dangerous radicalization.

I heard they're already targeting Candice Owens for this but not sure about Pewds.

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#76 Posted by Baconstrip78 (1371 posts) -

We’ve all seen his picture. That was a face only a mother could love. Just another underachieving, isolated, socially-inept, introverted internet weirdo with a low-paying job and no woman.

I’ll also make a prediction. When he sees the reality of a life in prison in front of him, he will cry in court. Any weak-minded fool who internalizes internet memes and frequents 8chan doesn’t have the stomach for prison or the ability to keep their emotions in check during sentencing. He’s a crier.

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#78 Posted by Stevo_the_gamer (45140 posts) -

He live streamed it as well? Jesus. What a disgusting piece of trash... 15 free minutes to unleash hell on innocent men, women, and children. I'm a little horrified by the slow initial police response. Granted I doubt New Zealands officers gets active shooter training at all.

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#79 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10606 posts) -

Australian Senator Fraser Anning blames the shooting of these people on Muslim immigrants, then proceeds to get egged on live TV and punch the 17 year old kid who egged him, right in the face. Can't believe some people.

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#80 Posted by mattbbpl (17002 posts) -

A fun thing to think about while we are all having a good time complaining about outrage mobs and political correctness is that conservatives flipped out and got a DHS analyst fired for writing a 2009 report warning of a rise in far right terrorism

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1106749245007319040?s=19

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#81 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Australian Senator Fraser Anning blames the shooting of these people on Muslim immigrants, then proceeds to get egged on live TV and punch the 17 year old kid who egged him, right in the face. Can't believe some people.

Ignoring who and what this guy is about, if someone eggs you, I can't blame a smack response. 17 year olds are not "kids", some of them are 6-7 foot of muscle. Checking that clip as well, it was from behind, so this guy would have had very little idea of what it is, for all he knew it could have been an acid attack.

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There was a similar incident with John Prescot.

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It's easy to say "oh should have had a calm rational response", but given the immediacy of it, good luck with that.

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#82 Edited by KungfuKitten (26430 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

A fun thing to think about while we are all having a good time complaining about outrage mobs and political correctness is that conservatives flipped out and got a DHS analyst fired for writing a 2009 report warning of a rise in far right terrorism

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1106749245007319040?s=19

That's terrible. Silencing things hurts us all in the end. If they had critique then they should have challenged the report but not get someone fired.

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#83 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36087 posts) -

Milo got banned from Australia in response to his comments on the shooting.

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#84 Edited by Jacanuk (18283 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: Hmm ok?

Not sure why you felt the need to post that, but can anyone say they honestly care? from what I hear about him he is a trained provocateur who makes his money from being just that.

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#85 Posted by Baconstrip78 (1371 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan: LOL right wing meltdown.

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#86 Posted by Baconstrip78 (1371 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: Only thing he right is good for anymore is trolling the family members of dead people. Newton, Parkland, and now this.

They are pieces of garbage and the enemy of civilized society.

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#87 Posted by mattbbpl (17002 posts) -

@KungfuKitten said:
@mattbbpl said:

A fun thing to think about while we are all having a good time complaining about outrage mobs and political correctness is that conservatives flipped out and got a DHS analyst fired for writing a 2009 report warning of a rise in far right terrorism

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1106749245007319040?s=19

That's terrible. Silencing things hurts us all in the end. If they had critique then they should have challenged the report but not get someone fired.

I'm with you. I'd rather see the statistics on gun violence that the CDC is restricted from studying, for instance, than to bury it.

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#88 Posted by JustPlainLucas (79288 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

Milo got banned from Australia in response to his comments on the shooting.

But didn't their own senator say something similar?

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#89 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36087 posts) -

@JustPlainLucas said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

Milo got banned from Australia in response to his comments on the shooting.

But didn't their own senator say something similar?

Yeah, but I suppose that given the Senator is an AU citizen and Milo isn't (British), I think that's a bit more complicated.

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#90 Posted by Jag85 (13370 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Australian Senator Fraser Anning blames the shooting of these people on Muslim immigrants, then proceeds to get egged on live TV and punch the 17 year old kid who egged him, right in the face. Can't believe some people.

After egging the fascist, the kid didn't flinch at all from his weak-ass punch, and then it took 3-4 grown-ass men to take that one kid down. The kid is a legend.

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#91 Edited by MirkoS77 (14059 posts) -

@CreasianDevaili said:

My older sisters did that to me. I still don't know who it was and frankly I'm never going to research it, but they said watch this and I came in the room and they hit play. I walked right back out but I still remember those screams.

I'll never ever ever fathom the curiosity.

I find the curiosity perfectly reasonable. I think everyone at a certain age wants to see what they've been sheltered from their entire lives. I know when I was in my late teens to early twenties my friends and I would seek out footage of death and cruelty that the regular media wouldn't show (at that time it was VHS tapes like Faces of Death, this was long before places like YT or websites that compiled this stuff like ********. We'd watch and laugh at it, posturing to appear cool and indifferent, and I don't know about my friend, but I always remember being deeply disturbed by it.

Nowadays, I don't want to see any of it. I've seen it, and I can imagine the worst for what I haven't. I still have that curiosity in me to watch this guy's video solely for the reason it's a bit novel in its presentation, but now have far more respect for the victims and don't wish to acknowledge what the killer wants. I don't need to see people gunned down, woman and children, while they're begging, crying, and pleading for their lives, but I can completely understand the curiosity for those that do. What I don't get are people who get off on it and make rankings of the worst.

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#92 Posted by JustPlainLucas (79288 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:
@JustPlainLucas said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

Milo got banned from Australia in response to his comments on the shooting.

But didn't their own senator say something similar?

Yeah, but I suppose that given the Senator is an AU citizen and Milo isn't (British), I think that's a bit more complicated.

I'm sure. But of course, people are going to take this hypocrisy and run with it.

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#93 Edited by CreasianDevaili (4418 posts) -
@MirkoS77 said:
@CreasianDevaili said:

My older sisters did that to me. I still don't know who it was and frankly I'm never going to research it, but they said watch this and I came in the room and they hit play. I walked right back out but I still remember those screams.

I'll never ever ever fathom the curiosity.

I find the curiosity perfectly reasonable. I think everyone at a certain age wants to see what they've been sheltered from their entire lives. I know when I was in my late teens to early twenties my friends and I would seek out footage of death and cruelty that the regular media wouldn't show (at that time it was VHS tapes like Faces of Death, this was long before places like YT or websites that compiled this stuff like ********. We'd watch and laugh at it, posturing to appear cool and indifferent, and I don't know about my friend, but I always remember being deeply disturbed by it.

Nowadays, I don't want to see any of it. I've seen it, and I can imagine the worst for what I haven't. I still have that curiosity in me to watch this guy's video solely for the reason it's a bit novel in its presentation, but now have far more respect for the victims and don't wish to acknowledge what the killer wants. I don't need to see people gunned down, woman and children, while they're begging, crying, and pleading for their lives, but I can completely understand the curiosity for those that do. What I don't get are people who get off on it and make rankings of the worst.

I'm eyeballing mostly those who purposely sought it out and then went online in rage that they actually saw people being brutally gunned down after clicking to watch someone live streaming just that. I find that to be quite perplexing. It's one thing to go in with virgin eyes and ears, and run back out and take it all in. But it's another to seek it out and then get angry at that they saw what they sought to see, and then go on about how to fix it without at least acknowledging that they in fact are an element to the problem.

Gun regulation is indeed needed. Plainly put. But so does helping to create the lure of demand.

I entirely agree with you about the sick ****'s out there that get off on it.

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#94 Posted by ad1x2 (7406 posts) -

While this incident was sad, we need to try and avoid doing exactly what the shooter wants us to do, which is to play the blame game and fight among ourselves.

Unfortunately, a lot of people, to include people in this thread, are falling for it. Outside of this thread, it’s so bad that Chelsea Clinton was blamed too because she criticized Rep. Omar’s anti-Israel statements.

The murderer claimed in his manifesto that Spyro the Dragon was one of his influences and Fortnite taught him how to kill. If that isn’t a sign his intentions can’t be taken seriously I don’t know what is.

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#95 Edited by SameGotta (9 posts) -

I don't think OP needed to paste the whole of the article.

Anti-islamic sentiment is not likely growing as for population but is moving in two ways:

1. Extremism, as in each member who has virulently anti-Islamic sentiments as expanding and radicalizing ideologies, driving mentally unsound retards like said shooter to go and shoot up a Church

2. Knowledge for how to publicize

Do not make the mistake of conflating different variables and causes and beliefs. This is the goal of these shooters. Their goals is to mislead. This specific shooter has the intelligence and objective of broadcasting on social media, played the media well (his shooting was well-publicized because this type of news is very lucrative to discuss). News stations have an easy time broadcasting his webcam footage and make viewers drool because they suck dicks and eat bricks for breakfast and would rather mislead people than hold back sometimes on these shootings. But hey, can you blame them for not taking free viewership and money? (I do.)

The shooter deserves his shooters' credit for knowing how to spend his life, which is to launch a successful and public attack on a church, shooting innocent people, but what should not have happened was how retard fuckwads help this homicidal asshole achieve and fulfill his death wish by talking about this more than it should be talked about, or at least misinterpreting things. Responses like OP's response are a part of this shooter's objectives.

Analogously, in the USA you are sort of more likely to die from bringing a toaster to bubble bath with you (no, I don't mean this literally) than terrorism, and the fact that these fears are reversed and do not reflect reality goes to reflect the success of terrorism and why terrorists commit terrorism, despite that it itself does very little damage.

>Oh, I didn't see he was apprehended alive. That's too bad. But you still know what I mean, there are many other shooters who are shot dead.

Do you see this assassination? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Andrei_Karlov

If you look up pictures, it looks like a scene from a bond movie. This is no mistake. The shooter may not have plotted the frame of the picture but there is no mistake that the cameras are rolling. The guy didn't finish eat a sandwitch, pass by the art gallery on a casual stroll, see it's the Russian ambassador and decide to whip out his pistol.

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#96 Edited by AnthonyAutumns (1679 posts) -

What the EF! Even GamerGate is being dragged into this. What the heck does GamerGate has not yet blamed for?

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#97 Edited by Zaryia (8272 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:

While this incident was sad, we need to try and avoid doing exactly what the shooter wants us to do, which is to play the blame game and fight among ourselves.

Unfortunately, a lot of people, to include people in this thread, are falling for it. Outside of this thread, it’s so bad that Chelsea Clinton was blamed too because she criticized Rep. Omar’s anti-Israel statements.

The murderer claimed in his manifesto that Spyro the Dragon was one of his influences and Fortnite taught him how to kill. If that isn’t a sign his intentions can’t be taken seriously I don’t know what is.

I don't blame anyone but the shooter.

But I'm not stupid enough to think the far right's anti-muslim rhetoric and spamming of white nationalism talking points doesn't contribute to this kind of stuff which is on the rise. He basically said as much in his Manifesto, and even named Trump.

And then like an idiot, Trump lied about extremist white nationalism growth.

Fact-checking Trump's notion that white nationalism is not a rising threat

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/fact-checking-trump-on-threat-of-white-nationalism/index.html

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#98 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (18707 posts) -

@sakaixx said:

Damn every religion making everyone twisted.

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#99 Edited by Jag85 (13370 posts) -
@anthonyautumns said:

What the EF! Even GamerGate is being dragged into this. What the heck does GamerGate has not yet blamed for?

The connection is 8chan, i.e. 4chan's unwanted leftovers. 8chan is the cesspool that has given rise to both Gamergate and white-supremacist terrorism. Even as we speak, the massacre is being celebrated by barbaric savages at 8chan, where many are inciting even more terrorism. It's about time counter-terrorism takes action against 8chan, which has become a terrorist breeding ground.

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#100 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

@Jag85 said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Australian Senator Fraser Anning blames the shooting of these people on Muslim immigrants, then proceeds to get egged on live TV and punch the 17 year old kid who egged him, right in the face. Can't believe some people.

After egging the fascist, the kid didn't flinch at all from his weak-ass punch, and then it took 3-4 grown-ass men to take that one kid down. The kid is a legend.

Overreaction if you ask me. The kid has posted his own video of it.