Impeachment hearings

This all appears to be fake, or taken wildly out of context. Any valid Citation for these claims? Not extreme right pseudo-conspiracy sites?

I searched what you wrote, either I come up with fact check links which clear Biden or I come up with extreme-right blogs that draw fake connections. Any charges or settlements caused were not related to the Bidens.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hunter-biden-ukraine/what-hunter-biden-did-on-the-board-of-ukrainian-energy-company-burisma-idUSKBN1WX1P7

Lutsenko, who succeeded Shokin as Ukraine’s prosecutor general in 2016, took over a tax investigation into Burisma before closing the case ten months later, after the company had paid a settlement in relation to the tax investigation.

The former prosecutor said that any issues Burisma did have were not related to Biden.

This is all conspiratorial nonsense. Biden had nothing to do with any of this. Trump wanted to investigate 2 confirmed fake conspiracy theories to help his 2020 campaign, as many insiders testified to.

I bet you think Ukrainian meddling was real too.

You are stating lies:

Evidence in the Trump Impeachment Inquiry

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/04/us/politics/president-trump-impeachment-inquiry.html

It literally is a conspiracy theory. I would hope NYT, CNN, Rueters, AP, BBC, TG, PBS, NPR, WAP, WSJ wouldn't tell me conspiracy theories. In fact they've debunked them, directly.

So unless you guys start backing up some of your claims, I will delete those posts.

@horgen: why would you delete posts? Is that like a rule or something? Your post gets deleted if you make a claim without a source link attached ? Lol

@jeezers: Trolling. That is what it seems like you (not you personally)do.

@horgen: what??

There are what... 200 posts in here with wild claims and maybe 3 links with proof of them. Back up your claims. Is that so hard to do? At least be prepared to do so.

Secondly a lot of them are off topic. What the Bidens did aren't that relevant. This is about the impeachment hearings regarding what Trump did.

@horgen: which claims are you talking about out of curiosity, said by who, me? Or someone else, if its something said by me I'll try to elaborate

Edit: Also Biden is going to be tied to this impeachment, hes honestly at the center of it, so you cant be upset at people bringing up Biden, the impeachment is based off the accusation that Trump had foriegn aide held for dirt about Biden, trump claims he just wanted them to look for corruption within burisma and never used aide as leverage, hunter biden sat on the board of Burisma.

My point is the bidens are very much involved so i dont find it to be off topic at all.

No Biden is not at the center of it. trump is. Stop deflecting.

@zaryia: https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/cnn/false/

Try again.

@horgen its hard to stay on topic and not go sideways a little bit when people say with arrogance and are quite condescening that they don’t even know what crime or if he even committed a crime.

And you people are saying not to mention Biden? Holy agenda batman.

The fact that we're arguing about a baseless claim from crackpots to deflect from a presidential corruption case with mounds of documented evidence shows how much Fox News has rotted some peoples' minds.

Add it to the pile of Benghazi/Kenyan-born/Muslim-interloper garbage they eat up every day.

The Bidens ARE NOT the focus of this investigation. That's like saying if you're investigating a hitman, that the people he was going to kill are also under investigation. Their name might pop up, yes, but they are not the subject.

This is about Trump and his alleged abuses of power.

Even IF Biden did what Trump alleged, that still would not mean anything because this investigation is about Trump.

Deflect, deflect, deflect, whatabout whatabout whatabout....that's all you folks do.

Why would you need to mention Biden outside of Trump's motivation for this?

Yes, the Bidens will be mentioned incidentally, but they are not the cause for this investigation.

Stay on track; this is about Trump, Ukraine, and abuses of power. The second you start talking about Biden and oil companies and so on, you have veered off course.

You just posted a random link in the hopes no one would click it. Lmao,

1. That link does not refute CNN's Biden fact check, or mention the article I linked.

2. That link does not refute NYT, Reuters, BBC, AP, WAPO, WSJ, PBS, NPR Biden fact checks which all corroborate CNN's fact check.

Try again. (No actually don't, I'm pretty sure you're just an act).

Sigh. So disingenuous. If you want to start a different/new debate as to which specific crimes were committed by Trump's actions lets do that in a new quote chain. But don't lie and say that was the initial debate me and Deimedius were having. I understand the overwhelming evidence is not defendable and the right has moved the goal post, from having initially doubted the WB report and events to now "Sure he did those things, but was it illegal?".

"BTW", I listed 10 potential laws broken pages ago after you changed the quote chain topic. No reason to lie friend.

It's okay to accept that loss, and then start a new debate involving our theories of potential crimes Trump's actions broke.

Want to start? I already listed 10. What are your thoughts on those.

Not to mention fact checked conspiracy theories.

If you want to make a claim about Biden that relates to this impeachment, you also need valid citation. Something you guys conveniently can not offer, because it's mostly from extreme right psycho blogs.

This isn't Infowars.

The statement thing was more general.

The only way Bidens are related is a side point. They are not the center of it.

I am saying he is not the center of it. Trump's phone call and the information being made public in these hearings is the center of it.

There is ZERO evidence the Bidens were involved in corruption. It is exactly wrong for the president to use his position to try to investigate his political rivals while involving foreign governments. I take it you didn't study government in school.

Asking Ukraine to look into 2 factually debunked conspiracy theories to help his 2020 election via shadow government, which the FEC Chair said is illegal. He also held the aid for this, which many experts say is bribery/extortion.

He did not ask them to look into any real corruption. Just 2 fake conspiracy theories, that directly helped his campaign.

Many of the insiders knew this was the reason. They testified to it and gave details.

I do find it funny how many posters here seem to not care at all if the Bidens were involved in such corruption.

Because that's fake. Every fact checker has stated as such. You were incapable of offering citation to refute them.

This is like asking me why I do not care about Flat Earth in Climate Change threads.

@zaryia: I think the question is about if it's really an impeachable offense or not. At least Ukraine got their money.

But we do have a treaty with Ukraine about mutual assistance for investigations of corruption and criminal matters. Maybe that's what Trump thought he was delving into and wasn't thinking about how it also benefited him but I don't know what the stipulations are for that to properly occur. https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text

It doesn't matter who Trump is trying to get dirt on, it only matters he was trying to get dirt on someone.

Yes, Trump's actions are the entire crux of the impeachment.

Trump says a lot of things, 1/3 is garbage, 1/3 is lies, and the other 1/3 is distorted truth.

As for leveraging aid, pretty much everything and everyone says otherwise. Go look at any of the links prior to this post.

It's not that I don't care, it's just not the point.

If there is sufficient evidence, go ahead and investigate Biden in a separate case. I don't care, I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not voting for Biden. As far as I am concerned if he is guilty well that's one less inept, old politician we need to worry about.

In the meantime, however, Biden's actions have nothing to do with the impeachment, so let's stop with the whatabout-ism and focus on Trump, and either get him cleared or convicted.

It's not so much that he asked another country to assist in investigations, it's that he withheld aid (essentially bribery) for his own personal gain.

And no, it's not "another thing", it is essentially the only thing.

It's laughable that you say Biden is relevant but that quid-pro-quo is "another thing".

Impeachment hearings are held to find out if a president has abused the powers of the office, especially for personal gain.

No, everything related to Trump and Ukraine is fair game.

-----------

Let me ask you this: if Biden is indeed guilty of whatever the hell people think he did, does that justify Trump's actions? Because you are essentially saying that the highest public official and servant of the United States is allowed to do whatever the **** he wants if the ends justify the means.

That kind of thinking doesn't apply to pretty much everyone, it certainly doesn't apply to the president. If we adopt this mentality, shit is going to get out of hand really fast.

@mrbojangles25: I see no problem with what trump asked Ukraine, its completely fine, he just asked if they would look into potential corruption.

Totally fine with that.

Now if he said look you better look into this thing, or your not going to get this foriegn aid. Thats absolutely wrong.

However we have no proof of this. We have testimony from people who assume that could be the case, but no hard proof. Ukraine president himself says he felt no pressure...

But IRONICALLY we have a video of Biden admitting to doing exactly that. Admitting on tape to holding foriegn aid unless they dealt with the prosecutor looking into burisma. A Ukraine energy firm his crackhead son sits on the board of making upwards of 50k a month lol

I'm sorry but I cant look at this impeachment process without questioning the Bidens, not going to happen.

The crux of the impeachment is that Trump held foriegn aide to get dirt on Biden.

Trump says he was just asking them to look into potential corruption.

I feel like other people have probably told you this, but I am going to say it again: the issue is not that Trump asked a foreign power to aid in an investigation; the problem is that Trump withheld promised aid (from the taxes we pay) in order to force Ukraine to give information on a political rival.

In other words, the issue is that Trump abused his powers for personal gain.

In other other words, the Bidens have nothing to do with the issue. Trump could have been asking if vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate in order to help out Breyers, it still would have been an impeachable offense had his actions been the same.

By your logic, we'd have to start investigating chocolate and vanilla ice cream....

@zaryia: To sum up what Zaryia is copying and pasting. Trump did things, we don’t know what crime he commited but we think he did commit a crime...so he’s guilty.

I don't get upset over Trump; I'm a white male, shit works out for me no matter who sits as POTUS. I think he is an asshole, sure, but that's not illegal.

And I don't have a dog in this fight, as I said earlier; I've survived Trump for four years, can survive him for another four. And I already told you I'm not voting for Biden.

I just think we need to investigate is all.

1. That's why you need to investigate.

2. Doesn't matter, crime is crime

3. Doesn't matter, withheld aid is withheld aid

4. Maybe. We will only find out with an honest investigation.

5. Do we? Because I am pretty sure that video has been discounted as a lie, highly edited and spliced.

Congress allocates the money. Not the president. Learn government.

1. Shit-post.

2.Yes. You FINALLY get it. Trump and Co. did things and took specific actions according to the overwhelming evidence. You finally get what me and Diamedus were debating. You finally get what the entire right was trying to deny for months since the ICIG WB Report came out. Something the right stopped debating after the hearings!

Thank you for this concession to that main debate we were having, N64DD. Now we can move on to the new debate everyone else is having,

3. I listed like 5 my child. Several times ITT.

Want to have a good faith debate on those instead of lying about posts?

4. I never said he was guilty, and that isn't even how Impeachment works. N64DD, are you new to politics?

So N64DD, after losing the last debate would you now like to respectfully talk about what potential laws might have been broken by the actions Trump took? Here are some potential ones,

• 18 U.S. Code § 872: “Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.
• 2 U.S. Code § 192, “Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,
• 18 U.S. Code § 610, which covers that crime rather clearly under the title: “Coercion of political activity.”
• 18 U.S. Code § 607, “Place of solicitation,”
• 52 U.S. Code § 30121, “Contributions and donations by foreign nationals.”

What are your opinions on that?

White House won't participate in first Judiciary impeachment hearing

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/472547-white-house-wont-participate-in-first-judiciary-impeachment-hearing

lmao, so they cried about this forever but when the Dems allow it they run away.

1. No. But withholding aid because they won't investigate a fake conspiracy theory into your top political rival is some really crazy shit lol.

2. It does look like there were crimes broken, going by the law. We'll have to wait and see.

3. The top 3 Dems beat Trump in even Fox news polls and Trump internal polls.

4. Fair elections scare Dems? Uhhhh.....you are aware who uses the most gerrymandering and voter suppression right? I'm pretty sure the GOP uses the most unfair election tactics going by facts.

Indeed. The investigations into 2 fake conspiracy theories Trump asked for was purely for his 2020 campaign. 100%. Even according to many of the sworn testimonies, if common sense wasn't enough.

The right wing posters here have absolutely no clue as to how any of this works.

An embarrassing amount of them didn't even know what impeachment was for the first few months here. They confused it for Senate removal.

We don't have a tape of Biden admitting to any wrong doing or crimes. We have a tape of him discussing regular foreign policy matters.

Don't lie please.

This is fake. We have quite a bit of evidence of all of this,

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/27/783487901/the-hold-on-ukraine-aid-a-timeline-emerges-from-impeachment-probe

Oh boy. Here we go to LaLa Land.

First thank you for moving on to this new goal post like most of the GOP and admitting the ICIG WB Report was real. Secondly, this post is LITERALLY TAKEN FROM a Trump tweet (LOL) and is not a real thing. It's literally something he randomly made up. No government agency created such a WB report concerning Hunter Biden. No one did, it didn't happen. It's fake. There is no known protected WB or WB Report regarding that fake topic of any sort. Also, you can't whistleblow a fake conspiracy theory cooked up by far right bloggers. Furthermore, any of this Hunter Biden corruption nonsense has been fact checked by every fact checker as fake.

What's your next defense, "Covfefe"?

Back on Earth: They go in detail why each of those crimes can exist according to the evidence so far,

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/10/trump-crimes-law/

The only question, here, is the definition of extortion. The law describes it as “the extraction of anything of value from another person by threatening or placing that person in fear of injury to any person or kidnapping of any person.” Was the Ukrainian president, or any other person, put in “fear of injury” by Trump’s move? As Trump’s envoys made clear in their since-disclosed text messages, Ukraine’s cooperation in the investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden was driven by the promise of a White House visit for President Volodymyr Zelensky and the threat of withholding military aid. That’s not just wrong, as Carlson and Patel rightly acknowledge, it’s also a felony, as the president and other Ukrainians no doubt had “fear of injury.”

Trump has said that he will refuse to cooperate with lawful subpoenas — itself a prima facie violation of 2 U.S. Code § 192, “Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,” punishable by a year in prison.

Coercing his deputies into joining in the conspiracy would also runs afoul of the law. “As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Bill Taylor, the top American diplomat in Ukraine, reiterated in a text message to Trump official Gordon Sondland, strongly suggesting he was pursuing the strategy against his own wishes.

If Taylor felt coerced into helping with “a political campaign,” that implicates 18 U.S. Code § 610, which covers that crime rather clearly under the title: “Coercion of political activity.”

P.S. Impeachment does not require a legal crime but it's good to discuss this anyway as several legal experts clearly saw these crimes within the evidence so far. You just got into politics from the 2016 Election memes didn't you, lol.

I honestly think jeezers has some sort of weird goal in spreading misinformation.

It's odd because it's such a low traffic forum, but still, I don't see how else he can continuously be so impervious to the information presented to him.

@Serraph105: you guys are so gullible, you read a headline and swallow it whole. Your TDS only allows to accept things that fall in line with what you already assume is true.

I'm the one with atleast some scepticism, your side acts as if its already been proven Trump is guilty, which is flat out not true.

And you also give Biden a full blown pass. While screaming guilty at Trump. I dont gaf about the Rs and Ds. Red vs blue, its not about that to me, but it obviously is to many of you guys.

Hunter biden came out and apologized for doing the Ukraine stuff. I don't know what planet you're on anymore.

@jeezers: So basically you’re saying that you refuse to believe the information that people cite despite being from reputable sources. Instead you prefer to believe, not even some other source of information, but the "truth" you get from your gut. There's actually a term for that, truthiness.

Here's a weirdly perfect example of what you're doing.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/63ite2/the-colbert-report-the-word---truthiness

@n64dd: can you cite that source? All I can find is that he said he miscalculated the political ramifications, but did nothing illegal.

Citation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3983320002

For all the cries of "no due process" and "no chance for defense," the president and Whitehouse officials are formally invited into the process by the judiciary committee as the inquiry is passed on to them. They would be able to suggest and question witnesses while bringing forward targeted evidence that clears up the allegations.

Trump, his lawyers, and the Whitehouse said hell naw.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/02/getting-waiving-due-process-despite-cries-unfairness-trump-refuses-impeachment

Imagine if a marathon runner chopped his own foot off and then complained the race is unfair. That's this.

Pathetic, but entirely expected. I would have been surprised if they did participate. Can't complain about losing the game if you don't show up.

Oh they can and will.

Now how many nonsense posts are on this page...

What is a more credible witness? An employee who got fired from her job a few months back or the president of Ukraine, the only other person in on that call, and the so-called victim of the alleged bribery? Because Zelensky is saying it never happened as well. So, what exactly is Trump supposed to be defending himself from again?

@Serraph105:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/us/politics/hunter-biden-interview.amp.html

@n64dd: so he denied any wrong doing then. The job wouldn't have happened if not for his father, but he claims to have broken no laws.

Your article even says that there is no evidence that Joe intervened to help his son.