Will Pedophilia ever be accepted like H0m0sexuality here?

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]Why? You can't just make that statement and pass it off as fact. I don't see why passive pedophilia is any different than homosexuality in terms of condition. They're both things that the people just can't help but feel. And it's part of their identity. Hell, discriminating against pedophilia and homosexuality is no worse than discriminating by race or gender. Why should we let society decide the taboos without questioning it?GabuEx

It's different because someone who has constant desires but does not act upon them will become increasingly restless and messed up the longer he goes unsatisfied. If a homosexual person acts upon those desires, there's no problem; however, if a pedophile acts upon those desires, there's a rather large problem. The entire reason why homosexual people can be fully accepted into society is because it's now known that they pose no danger to anyone whatsoever.

If someone could prove that it is 100% guaranteed a pedophile will never act upon his desires and will be unaffected by that, then that'd be one thing. As it stands right now, however, I would certainly not let a pedophile be near my kids, regardless of how much he swears he won't do anything. There's a reason why homosexual people who repress and deny their desires are almost inevitably caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar - eventually a guy just can't take it anymore. The desire must either go away, or it must be acted upon; to both have a desire yet never act upon it puts a human in an unstable state of cognitive dissonance.

Those people need support and not to be cast from society. Of course I would be careful with those people too, but other than the alert the term pedophile ignites in everyone, there is no actual effort to "heal" the problem, AFAIK.

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I don't believe that they don't at least once exploit a child in some way.....

LJS9502_basic

But one thing that has to be stressed though.

Those people need support and not to be cast from society. Of course I would be careful with those people too, but other than the alert the term pedophile ignites in everyone, there is no actual effort to "heal" the problem, AFAIK.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Also, there are religious men who live thier whole lives abstaining from sex and porn -- that's proof at least that it is humanly possible to abstain from sexual desire.GabuEx

A question must be asked: to what extent did those people experience sexual desire?

If someone truly was afflicted from a strong desire his entire life and yet never once acted upon it, I submit that that person would no longer be a sane human being by the time he dies. Like I said, there's a reason why homosexual people who repress and deny their desires inevitably get eventually caught in a homosexual affair - it's just as I said, the human brain cannot perpetually exist with a desire that is unsatisfied. They, eventually, cannot take it anymore, and indulge in their desires.

Everyday, I may feel an urge to I don't know, grab a pretty girls's breast, or to sleep in and not go to college. I never act on those desires, but does that necessarily mean I'm in a state of perpetual cognitive dissonance? Perhaps, but is that extremely harmful? No. We all suppress our desires, that's a simple fact of life.

In the same way, a paedophile who suppresses his feelings does not necesarily have to endure great mental torment because of it. Also, I;m really don't mean to be crude, but a paedophile can always relieve themself, which will not necessarily harm children in any way.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]If someone could prove that it is 100% guaranteed a pedophile will never act upon his desires and will be unaffected by that, GabuEx

Those who are gay or straight have numerous options, including hiring prostitutes, finding people at bars, et cetera. There is no guarantee that acting upon their urges will bring anyone harm. The same is not true for pedophiles.

[QUOTE="Righteous_Rage"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I don't believe that they don't at least once exploit a child in some way.....

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

But one thing that has to be stressed though.

Those people need support and not to be cast from society. Of course I would be careful with those people too, but other than the alert the term pedophile ignites in everyone, there is no actual effort to "heal" the problem, AFAIK.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Righteous_Rage"] Yeah, because you DON'T WANT TO believe that. You're sticking to your habitual thought process because it's too hard to change, isn't it? "Enlightenment hurts!" :cry:MetalGear_Ninty

I keep wondering about this. I don't know if it's just me or not but it doesn't seem impossible to me... Wasn't THAT long ago being gay was, like, the worst thing ever.

What do you guys think?
And I'm not talking about rape.

Edit: I'm not talking about molesting, either.

Tsimcluckis

There is evidence that pedophilia will someday be legalized. For example, I have read of homosexual groups who are trying to lower the age of consent laws in various countries. There is also the problem with the definition of the term "sexual orientation". It is a term that is not defined in various places. While some places will limit the definition to homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual and transsexual, there are other places, Canada being one of them, where they refuse to define the term. The only reason for not defining the term is if they intend to expand the term to include other "sexual orientations". It's possible that pedophilia could be one of them in the future.

I said heal the problem. Not them. And besides if pedophilia is a mental disorder, isnt psychotherapy a possible way of treatment?

Teenaged

That's all conjecture. There's nothing to say that celibate monks have any less the desires that we do; orthat sexual suppression will inevitably drive people insane.

MetalGear_Ninty

No, it's pretty well-understood psychology, really. A human cannot have two competing forces in his brain forever. Eventually, one will win, or else the human's mind will break under the stress.

Everyday, I may feel an urge to I don't know, grab a pretty girls's breast, or to sleep in and not go to college. I never act on those desires, but does that necessarily mean I'm in a state of perpetual cognitive dissonance? Perhaps, but is that extremely harmful? No. We all suppress our desires, that's a simple fact of life.

In the same way, a paedophile who suppresses his feelings does not necesarily have to endure great mental torment because of it. Also, I;m really don't mean to be crude, but a paedophile can always relieve themself, which will not necessarily harm children in any way.

MetalGear_Ninty

If you randomly feel an urge that then goes away when you don't act upon it, there's no problem there. I'm talking about urges that stay around and linger. And sexual urges are probably the strongest example of such an urge.

If it were so easy to just not act upon urges and live with that, then why do closet homosexual people again and again get caught acting upon their urges?

[QUOTE="Tsimcluckis"]

I keep wondering about this. I don't know if it's just me or not but it doesn't seem impossible to me... Wasn't THAT long ago being gay was, like, the worst thing ever.

What do you guys think?
And I'm not talking about rape.

Edit: I'm not talking about molesting, either.

Jemdude

There is evidence that pedophilia will someday be legalized. For example, I have read of homosexual groups who are trying to lower the age of consent laws in various countries. There is also the problem with the definition of the term "sexual orientation". It is a term that is not defined in various places. While some places will limit the definition to homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual and transsexual, there are other places, Canada being one of them, where they refuse to define the term. The only reason for not defining the term is if they intend to expand the term to include other "sexual orientations". It's possible that pedophilia could be one of them in the future.

*tinfoil hat pic here*

I don't think it will happen, mainly because pedophiles are usually child predators, molesters, rapists, ect. And of course, those things are wrong, whether they involve children or not.

However, I also think that it is wrong to slap down a magic age and say "Ok, now you are legally allowed to have sex". According to our legal system, an 18-year old having sex with a 17-year-old is wrong because one is a legal adult and the other is not. The age of consent in some U.S. states is 16, but many people want them raised, and why? Because many people today treat sex as a bad thing and they try to shield their kids from it until they're 25. I'm not saying it's okay for a 30-year old to be out with a 12-year old, but I do believe that many people today take a little age different too far.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

That's all conjecture. There's nothing to say that celibate monks have any less the desires that we do; orthat sexual suppression will inevitably drive people insane.

GabuEx

No, it's pretty well-understood psychology, really. A human cannot have two competing forces in his brain forever. Eventually, one will win, or else the human's mind will break under the stress.

Well, this discussion has made me feel good.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I said heal the problem. Not them. And besides if pedophilia is a mental disorder, isnt psychotherapy a possible way of treatment?

LJS9502_basic

Anyway like I said the main point is to heal the problem.

I dont think how honestly (its 3am here anyway), but just saying "off with pedophiles" is just not solving anything imo.

No.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I said heal the problem. Not them. And besides if pedophilia is a mental disorder, isnt psychotherapy a possible way of treatment?

Teenaged

Anyway like I said the main point is to heal the problem.

I dont think how honestly (its 3am here anyway), but saying "off with pedophiles" is just cruel, imo.

It is not cruel that as a society we do not tolerant pedophilia.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You know DS from reading up in psychology courses it's a rare person that can maintain celebacy.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] ...and is that true for homosexuals as well?MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]According to psychologists they cannot.

LJS9502_basic

Anyway like I said the main point is to heal the problem.

I dont think how honestly (its 3am here anyway), but saying "off with pedophiles" is just cruel, imo.

Well let me ask you this.....can you change your sexual orientation? Can it be healed?

It is not cruel that as a society we do not tolerant pedophilia.

LJS9502_basic

Wll no. I get your point, although it has been suggested over time that homosexuality can be "cured". Anyway since I cant think of other possible measures I'll leave it at that.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

That's all conjecture. There's nothing to say that celibate monks have any less the desires that we do; orthat sexual suppression will inevitably drive people insane.

No, it's pretty well-understood psychology, really. A human cannot have two competing forces in his brain forever. Eventually, one will win, or else the human's mind will break under the stress.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Everyday, I may feel an urge to I don't know, grab a pretty girls's breast, or to sleep in and not go to college. I never act on those desires, but does that necessarily mean I'm in a state of perpetual cognitive dissonance? Perhaps, but is that extremely harmful? No. We all suppress our desires, that's a simple fact of life.

In the same way, a paedophile who suppresses his feelings does not necesarily have to endure great mental torment because of it. Also, I;m really don't mean to be crude, but a paedophile can always relieve themself, which will not necessarily harm children in any way.

If you randomly feel an urge that then goes away when you don't act upon it, there's no problem there. I'm talking about urges that stay around and linger. And sexual urges are probably the strongest example of such an urge.

If it were so easy to just not act upon urges and live with that, then why do closet homosexual people again and again get caught acting upon their urges?

*sigh* Again with misreading the NT. Christianity is against ANY indiscriminate sexual activity. That goes for heterosexuality as well. Hence the reason marriages happen when they shouldn't. Nonetheless, I have never condemned anyone for it...at least not with TWO CONSENTING adults.LJS9502_basic

Well then.... since Gabu_Ex is using an over-generalization by saying that all pedophiles will eventually rape little kids, and LJS still couldn't be bothered to read my original post that I'm basing my arguments on... I'm done herehamstergeddon

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]It's rare that people remain celebate. What does that have to do with homosexuality or are you under the assumption as the TC is that homosexuals are similar to pedophiles. Homosexuals are two consenting adults so I can't fathom why you'd ask this.:|

Well then.... since Gabu_Ex is using an over-generalization by saying that all pedophiles will eventually rape little kids, and LJS still couldn't be bothered to read my original post that I'm basing my arguments on... I'm done herehamstergeddon

All I'm saying is two things which are quite well-understood:

1. Pedophiles feel sexual desire towards little children; and

2. A desire that exists perpetually without satisfaction causes extreme mental stress on the human experiencing it.

If you want to argue against what I'm saying, those are the two points to pick from to argue against. Misrepresenting what I'm saying, however, is not an argument against it. :P

Well then.... since Gabu_Ex is using an over-generalization by saying that all pedophiles will eventually rape little kids, and LJS still couldn't be bothered to read my original post that I'm basing my arguments on... I'm done herehamstergeddon

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Wll no. I get your point, although it has been suggested over time that homosexuality can be "cured". Anyway since I cant think of other possible measures I'll leave it at that.

LJS9502_basic

Its just that in the case of homosexuals there is no need to treat it (in the wild chance it can be) while there is reason in pedophilia.

Anyway like I said I dont have any real arguments... just expressing my feeling that simply making pedophiles, society outcasts is in no way facing the problem. Thats all.

The Bible is against homosexual intercourse. Full stop. I thought you would have got that. :roll:MetalGear_Ninty

Here is an interview of Lindsay Ashford who is an "out of the closet" pedophile:

Pedophile Interview, part 1 of 5

I dont know. I have just heard something about treating it with psychotherapy or something. Like I said its just something I had heard.

Its just that in the case of homosexuals there is no need to treat it (in the wild chance it can be) while there is reason in pedophilia.

Anyway like I said I dont have any real arguments... just expressing my feeling that simply making pedophiles, society outcasts is in no way facing the problem. Thats all.

Teenaged

To your first point: I don't accept that, not all people are adulterous, and that's not to say that the non-adulterors don't have sexual desires.MetalGear_Ninty

If someone successfully makes it through his or her entire life without committing adultery, that means that the desire to be faithful to and to love his or her partner won out and extinguished the desire to have an affair. If that had not happened and if instead the person perpetually felt the desire to commit that affair, then eventually something would have broken.

To your second point: Well they're not going to publicise it when closet homosexuals don't 'relapse' -- that doesn't make headline news. That's not to say that such people don't exist. MetalGear_Ninty

Prove that's the case then, if you wish to make that assertion - prove that there exists a homosexual person who lived his entire life filled with the urge to have homosexual intercourse, but who did not do so, and who also did not lose his mind by the time he died. If you make an assertion that something is the case, in spite of the evidence that I have provided against that assertion, then it's up to you to prove it.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]Well then.... since Gabu_Ex is using an over-generalization by saying that all pedophiles will eventually rape little kids, and LJS still couldn't be bothered to read my original post that I'm basing my arguments on... I'm done hereGabuEx

All I'm saying is two things which are quite well-understood:

1. Pedophilesfeel sexual desire towards little children; and

2. A desire that exists perpetually without satisfaction causes extreme mental stress on the human experiencing it.

If you want to argue against what I'm saying, those are the two points to pick from to argue against. Misrepresenting what I'm saying, however, is not an argument against it. :P

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]Well then.... since Gabu_Ex is using an over-generalization by saying that all pedophiles will eventually rape little kids, and LJS still couldn't be bothered to read my original post that I'm basing my arguments on... I'm done herehamstergeddon

All I'm saying is two things which are quite well-understood:

1. Pedophilesfeel sexual desire towards little children; and

2. A desire that exists perpetually without satisfaction causes extreme mental stress on the human experiencing it.

If you want to argue against what I'm saying, those are the two points to pick from to argue against. Misrepresenting what I'm saying, however, is not an argument against it. :P

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]The Bible is against homosexual intercourse. Full stop. I thought you would have got that. :roll:LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]The Bible is against homosexual intercourse. Full stop. I thought you would have got that. :roll:MetalGear_Ninty

ok, fine. I'll give you those two points. but what you're argument comes to is that point 1 and 2 will eventual culminate in rape.hamstergeddon

Perhaps not, if the person can possibly find adequate satisfaction by himself, as has been suggestion. However, given the number of child molestation cases we have seen, that is obviously not the case for many people, which, to me, makes the presence of a pedophile around children ultimately dangerous, as there is no way of knowing if there will come a point in time when that sexual desire, which almost certainly would be heightened by being around children,becomes too much to bear.

Like I said, if a pedophile is not in any position to hurt a child, then fair enough - I don't hate the person himself. But I certainly would not let my children near him due to that ever-present uncertainty.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]To your first point: I don't accept that, not all people are adulterous, and that's not to say that the non-adulterors don't have sexual desires.GabuEx

If someone successfully makes it through his or her entire life without committing adultery, that means that the desire to be faithful to and to love his or her partner won out and extinguished the desire to have an affair. If that had not happened and if instead the person perpetually felt the desire to commit that affair, then eventually something would have broken.

To your second point: Well they're not going to publicise it when closet homosexuals don't 'relapse' -- that doesn't make headline news. That's not to say that such people don't exist. MetalGear_Ninty

Prove that's the case then, if you wish to make that assertion - prove that there exists a homosexual person who lived his entire life filled with the urge to have homosexual intercourse, but who did not do so, and who also did not lose his mind by the time he died. If you make an assertion that something is the case, in spite of the evidence that I have provided against that assertion, then it's up to you to prove it.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No the Bible is against any sexual intercourse outside of marriage. I'm not about to condemn one for that since I've not been married and uh well...indulged.

How can you say that! The Bible clearly states that homosexual intercourse is wrong, even if it is by the virtue of it being outside marriage. That is indisputable.MetalGear_Ninty

If you're talking about that verse in Leviticus, it exists very near to other instructions not to eat shellfish, not to plant two types of crop in a single field, and other similar instructions that nobody follows anymore due to the recognition that they were instructions for a much different time long ago, and whose reasoning backing them are no longer applicable.