Why are Eugenics condemned?

Because of the Nazis, of course

Lol, scientists say that in a few decades we'll be able to choose the best genes in our kids.

So say hello to a bunch of blue eyed athletic geniuses in the developed world.

Because of the Nazis, of course

gamerguru100

Ah, you beat me to the punch. I was gonna mention Hitler and his "master race" are a good example of why we don't want eugenics to be practiced by our government. How would you like it if you were sterilized or not allowed to reproduce because your genes weren't good enough? I'm not against genetic engineering as long as it's done willfully by the individuals who want their kids to have the best genes, but forcibly sterilizing certain people is just plain morally wrong. The United States government at one point did this to some of its own victims/citizens.

Uh... We need to start weeding out the stupid, else in 100 years, for every "Normal"(if you could call them that, "perfect" maybe?) child, you'll have 50 children who're too dumb to tie their shoes.Nibroc420

Implying that we aren't facing this dilemma already

Because there's no way I could imitate Ricardo Montalban's accent.

Set aside the ethical argument. Natural selection does the job of selected which genetic material is worth carrying on. No need for humans to start F'ing that up Diablo-B

go watch the film "Gattaca"

now imagine that society...only genocidal, and 1000x worse

go watch the film "Gattaca"

now imagine that society...only genocidal, and 1000x worse

mrbojangles25

How do we determine what's good and what's bad? Who has the right to do that? What if a perfect gene becomes bad or is actually bad but we think it's good? Those are just some of the questions to ask which I don't think we know the answer to or will know.michaelP4

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

go watch the film "Gattaca"

now imagine that society...only genocidal, and 1000x worse

MrMr-x2

you would love to live in a world where people are discriminated against from birth, because of their natural attributes and defects.

Gee, would you also like to return to 1940's values, where blacks have hardly any rights, Japanese are interred because we are at war, and women are viewed more as tools than human beings?

[QUOTE="MrMr-x2"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

go watch the film "Gattaca"

now imagine that society...only genocidal, and 1000x worse

mrbojangles25

you would love to live in a world where people are discriminated against from birth, because of their natural attributes and defects.

Gee, would you also like to return to 1940's values, where blacks have hardly any rights, Japanese are interred because we are at war, and women are viewed more as tools than human beings?

I am going to make some popcorn and read this thread.

it is almost as much fun as reading the people on Hufffington Post argue over politics

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="MrMr-x2"] I would love to live in that world. Beats the one we have now.Laihendi

you would love to live in a world where people are discriminated against from birth, because of their natural attributes and defects.

Gee, would you also like to return to 1940's values, where blacks have hardly any rights, Japanese are interred because we are at war, and women are viewed more as tools than human beings?

but opportunity should exist for all.

If someone who does not have the genetic gifts another has, yet can become their equal through hard work, the same opportunity should exist for them.

In the Gattaca world, these opportunities do not exist; youre screened at birth, your potential and existing defects identified, and your life essentially determined for you.

That was the entire point of the movie: the genetically inferior brother beat the supposed-superior brother; the "untouchable" genetic failure outcast was able to complete astronaut training and go to space, despite society thinking he would be unable to.

This is one of the problems with eugenics; the belief that genetics is the sole factor in superiority. This isn't a soccer game where the only way to score is with a goal. This is poker, and there are many many many ways to score and beat your opponent.

Screw eugenics I want human cyborg augmentation damnit!sSubZerOo

Because genetic diversity is biologically important. Because the moral implications of the government telling huge swaths of people that they are unfit to reproduce is horrifying. Because we have no metric to properly measure which genetic traits are better and which are worse (it's obvious in some cases, it is not at ALL in others). And probably most importantly, because I believe it's an indelible part of the human condition to have to understand and come to terms with who you are. Everyone in the world has to look in the mirror at some point in their lives and see something that falls short of the ideal. And accepting this and continuing to like ourselves for what we are instead of what we are not helps us grow in a way that genetic engineering never will. If you start engineering every genetic trait, you take the humanity out of humans.

Because of association with the Nazis, mainly. Which is unfortunate, because it's a pretty good idea which doesn't necessarily require any kind of coercion

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

you would love to live in a world where people are discriminated against from birth, because of their natural attributes and defects.

Gee, would you also like to return to 1940's values, where blacks have hardly any rights, Japanese are interred because we are at war, and women are viewed more as tools than human beings?

mrbojangles25

but opportunity should exist for all.

If someone who does not have the genetic gifts another has, yet can become their equal through hard work, the same opportunity should exist for them.

In the Gattaca world, these opportunities do not exist; youre screened at birth, your potential and existing defects identified, and your life essentially determined for you.

That was the entire point of the movie: the genetically inferior brother beat the supposed-superior brother; the "untouchable" genetic failure outcast was able to complete astronaut training and go to space, despite society thinking he would be unable to.

This is one of the problems with eugenics; the belief that genetics is the sole factor in superiority. This isn't a soccer game where the only way to score is with a goal. This is poker, and there are many many many ways to score and beat your opponent.

Because of association with the Nazis, mainly. Which is unfortunate, because it's a pretty good idea which doesn't necessarily require any kind of coercion

MannyDelgado

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]

Because of association with the Nazis, mainly. Which is unfortunate, because it's a pretty good idea which doesn't necessarily require any kind of coercion

silly_pants

In this case it's perfectly valid to bring up the Nazis. You asked why eugenics are condemed. They're a large part of the reason why. Also it's just a bad idea in general.

Nazi Germany showed the world the worst case scenario which can result from eugenistic culture.BranKetra

Social Darwinism, World War 3 and maybe even another Genocide is what could potentially result from an increasingly Eugenistic society.

We already tried eugenics... We failed horribly. Just like communism it is just a cool idea made impossible because of human nature.

We already tried eugenics... We failed horribly. Just like communism it is just a cool idea made impossible because of human nature.

Oscar-Wilde

Not really sure what's cool about telling another person that they're "unworthy of life".

Screw eugenics I want human cyborg augmentation damnit!sSubZerOo

I want to be like Adam Jensen. :(

[QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

We already tried eugenics... We failed horribly. Just like communism it is just a cool idea made impossible because of human nature.

worlock77

Not really sure what's cool about telling another person that they're "unworthy of life".

Because it would undoubtedly end up with basic human rights being violated or worse.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Oscar-Wilde"]

We already tried eugenics... We failed horribly. Just like communism it is just a cool idea made impossible because of human nature.

MannyDelgado

Not really sure what's cool about telling another person that they're "unworthy of life".

I understand the subject plenty, and it wasn't just Nazis who thought nor practiced that. Granted here in the United States we didn't flat out kill people, but we imprisoned and sterilized them against their will nonetheless.

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Not really sure what's cool about telling another person that they're "unworthy of life".

worlock77

I understand the subject plenty, and it wasn't just Nazis who thought nor practiced that. Granted here in the United States we didn't flat out kill people, but we imprisoned and sterilized them against their will nonetheless.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]lol perhaps you should expand your understanding of the subject beyond 'HURR NAZIS' before embarrassing yourselfMannyDelgado

I understand the subject plenty, and it wasn't just Nazis who thought nor practiced that. Granted here in the United States we didn't flat out kill people, but we imprisoned and sterilized them against their will nonetheless.

Call it whatever you wish, but the purpose is to snuff out undesirable traits in a population.

This is an obvious troll thread, but I'll bite.

Eugenics is a nazi mentality, period. There are no such things as "better" humans, it is illogical. There are is no such thing as "better" genes either. The reason why humans survive is because of genitic diversity, this is why there are so many different shapes and sizes of people etc...it keeps us alive. If there was only one or a few types, we would die off the moment a new disease broke out or a shift in the climate.

Also eugenics goes against freedom and is morally wrong. It is a disgusting idea and it has no place in the world. My people have seen eugenics first hand, take it from us, nothing good comes from it. People that support eugenics can go to hell for all I care. No better than the Nazis.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Screw eugenics I want human cyborg augmentation damnit!Aljosa23

I want to be like Adam Jensen. :(

There are is no such thing as "better" genes either.

ShadowMoses900

Lol ok

My people have seen eugenics first hand, take it from us, nothing good comes from it.

ShadowMoses900

This is an obvious troll thread, but I'll bite.

Eugenics is a nazi mentality, period. There are no such things as "better" humans, it is illogical. There are is no such thing as "better" genes either. The reason why humans survive is because of genitic diversity, this is why there are so many different shapes and sizes of people etc...it keeps us alive. If there was only one or a few types, we would die off the moment a new disease broke out or a shift in the climate.

Also eugenics goes against freedom and is morally wrong. It is a disgusting idea and it has no place in the world. My people have seen eugenics first hand, take it from us, nothing good comes from it. People that support eugenics can go to hell for all I care. No better than the Nazis.

ShadowMoses900

So if doctors will able to eliminate crippling hereditary from the entire human species would be no better then the Nazis?

Ever heard of a knee jerk reation?

Set aside the ethical argument. Natural selection does the job of selected which genetic material is worth carrying on. No need for humans to start F'ing that up Diablo-B