We need to reform America's gun laws

@Wasdie said:

@Mighty-Lu-Bu: Actually...

That link you posted is full of shit. The 2nd Amendment does explicitly define the right for the people to own weapons. Militias are not separate from the people. They are one in the same.

Either way, it needs to be reformed for modern times.

@uninspiredcup said:

Eat it haters.

@Master_Live said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Eat it haters.

Interesting how England has a ban on guns yet it has one of the lowest gun murder rates. Hmm....

Your list:

1. No, it doesn't. The current interpretation of it does.

2. You can shoot on your land, or on the land of businesses set up particularly for that purpose, with their guns, AFTER you complete my #7 to be licensed and registered to handle a gun.

3. You are reading too literally. See #7 on my list. Obviously it means carrying with an intent other than to bring it somewhere to have it transferred.

4. You go to a training center and use their guns, AFTER getting licensed and registered to handle guns, then you can handle one. I don't see what's so confusing.

5. See #2.

6. People never do the right thing until they're properly incentivized to do so.

What is this mythical black market? You can literally buy a gun from any private sale in 44 of 50 states with no background check and no questions asked, and thanks to the gun lobby, there is nothing stopping this but the honor system on the part of the criminal.

For future reference, we have these cool things called statistics. Before you go parroting ignorant gun lobby propaganda, the least you can do is a cursory check to see if it is even remotely true. Oh, by the way, it's not...
Guns are used far more than other weapons, by a large margin.

You're NOT reading. Your #4. You don't need to be licensed and trained to TOUCH a gun; you need to be licensed and registered.

No hunting on public land. Why would you want to shoot bullets on the same land where other people may be walking, etc? The range of your gun far surpasses their ability to see you in your little orange vest and vice-versa.

Before I chose the IT path, I was a Administrative Justice major with a minor in Political Science in the hopes of becoming a lawyer or political scientist someday, but the more I learned the more mad I got and I was so disgusted that I had to change my major completely. A lot of the laws, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution etc. in this country need to be reformed and modernized period. You cannot expect things that were created 200 years ago to be relevant and self-sufficient in these modern times. Sure all of these things were a great start, but the times have changed, so it is time for a complete reformation. The thing that really pisses me off is that when it comes to laws and the overall political scheme of things it’s all about money. Democrats fighting against Republicans, Liberals fighting against Conservatives- it is just a pointless cycle and it’s the people who truly suffer. Most voters are complete idiots and only vote for a particular candidate because “they’re Republican” or “they’re Democrat” and it’s ridiculous. What ever happened to voting for the person who wants to make America a better place? It’s freaking depressing that every day America gets just a little worse all because someone wants to earn a little more money. The whole gun thing is no different; people don’t want the hassle or gun supporters are completely reluctant to come to terms with any real agreement. How hard is it to make a few compromises yet every time we start the discussion every goes bat shit crazy saying, “they are trying to take our guns away!” How many people need to suffer and how many more people need to get killed before we start making progress in this kindergarten country of ours?

Why would someone who wants to commit a violent gun crime want an untraceable weapon that has not been castrated by government regulation and they could pick up in an hour? They would obviously go for the highly limited gun that can be traced directly back to them and they need to wait possibly weeks to get it.

All I have to do is go around the corner to Thug G's "I don't give a ****, I sell guns N E way" black market shop and I can bypass all these forms and background checks.

1) That's debatable.

2) It's a right. Deal with it.

3) We already continually demonstrate our responsibility. The vast majority of gun crime isn't committed by legal gun owners. What would yearly background checks do? If you commit a crime as is your pistol license gets revoked. Psych tests every year for every gun owner? You're insane if you think that can be reasonably achieved. Again, what would having to yearly renew a license do? In most states you lose your pistol license if you commit a crime. What would registration do? Another prohibitively expensive endeavor that would never be able to be implemented. Liability insurance for what?

4) You must be well and truly insane.

5) No thanks. I have no urge to be completely defenseless when I leave my home.

6) They already are.

7) I can agree with this, just not the prior requirement.

It's a problem with the mental health professionals not informing NICS that someone shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm. As for psych evals for all gun owners. When such a small amount of gun owners actually commit these crimes there is absolutely no reason to spend such an exorbitant amount of money on such an endeavor.

I agree with closing the gun show loophole, however.

I didn't kill those children. Why should I lose my freedoms because of it?

I am favor of the some common sense reforms such as longer waiting periods or what not.. There needs to be some middle ground.. People who say we should ban all guns are as bad as the people who are walking around with their rifles strapped to their backs in a grocery store.. I would be in favor for people to be trained in the use of fire arms if they were to buy one for instance as a requirement, much like drivers education and testing for instance.

You're not losing any freedoms and it's stubborn behavior like this why nothing is changing. It's really selfish when you really think about it. Sure it might be a hassle, but new gun control laws would make America a better place and how can you knockdown something like that? I question your morals and your intregity.

I have lost my freedoms because of it. I live in New York. I can't buy an AR-15 with a pistol grip or a collapsible buttstock. I can't even attach a foregrip onto my AR-15. Why? Because it looks scary. I can't buy ammo online without incurring severe costs from having to ship it to an FFL. This has gone from being simply a hassle to actively harming my lifestyle.

You and the people like you have already taken enough of my freedoms away. When you make some concessions on these gun laws, then we'll talk about real reform.

I honestly question your perspective on things.. You guys know how many students have been killed in school shootings k through college since 1980? Just over 300.. That is with a population of some 75+ million students a year.. With those kinds of numbers we should start making a massive health system overhaul because flesh eating bacteria has some 700 cases a year in the United States alone.. Meningococcal disease claims at least over 50 a year, mainly students.. Those numbers far dwarf any thing coming close to school shootings.. School shootings are definitely tragic, but they should not be the main catalyst in massive reform when your chances of getting gunned down in school are less than getting struck by lightning or getting killed in a car accident on the way to school.

Sounds like your freedoms are still intact. Can you still buy and guns? Yes? Alright then. You are talking about "hassles" and "inconviences" and sorry, but those are very minor. AR-15's are considered an assault weapon in Calfornia and that is why they are banned here. You don't see me crying about it. A compromise needs to be made period. Perhaps other states should adopt California's strict gun policies.

Having the ability to make certain modifications and then losing that ability sounds like freedoms being taken away. Certain guns I can't buy, no. AR-15s are not assault weapons. I don't care if you're not crying about it. You've demonstrated a severe lack of knowledge in this area. Sorry, but no. No compromise until you do so first.

In California an AR-15 is classified as an assault weapon and it is ilegal to own. Hopefully one day all 50 states will have the strict California laws. People are getting killed every week, hell every day, and your complaining about not having pistol grips and a collapsible buttstock? How are you a police officer because you are coming off as an extremely selfish person,

That's technically not true

What "modern times"? The times where illegal guns are the main source of violent gun crime in the United States and limiting legal gun ownership would do literally **** ALL to stop it?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. And whether they have guns or not, if they are motivated to kill, they will find a way.

Nobody cares what California classifies something as. It isn't true. An assault weapon needs to be fully automatic, an AR-15 isn't.

AR-15s aren't used in 99% of all shootings. I'm a Police Officer because I'm a rational adult that doesn't ban things for arbitrary reasons.

The only person being shown in a negative light right now is yourself. You haven't given me one solid reason why AR-15s should be banned.

That's actually not true

No one is qualified to determine what my rights are. That job is left to my Creator.

Yes it is. If we want to get really technical, there are no such thing as assault weapons. It's a made up term to serve a political agenda.

There are assault rifles, but AR-15s aren't those either.

An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle. Nothing more, nothing less.

So you're disagreeing and agreeing. Yeah, assault weapons is just a blanket term that includes many semi automatic weapons and shotguns

An assault rifle is usually a selective fire rifle

With the ability to select fully automatic fire or burst fire.

Well, we should regulate ALL firearms.

1) Uh no, you are emphatically mistaken in your interpretation of the 2nd amendment. You are the one that lacks the historical context.

The Commonplace Second Amendment

2) Developed countries or not, ability to defend oneself and their loved ones isn't a privilege, it should be a right. Anyone who argue otherwise have basically accepted the loss of their other civil rights.

3) Again, it's a right not a privilege. And you do have to show your credential to buy a gun. Since we are talking about voting and gun ownership, are you seriously suggesting yearly background checks, psych evals, out of pocket voter license and registration fees for all those wishing to vote?

4) See above. I won't even go into detail about the implausibility of such law passing in America or how unenforceable it is, but it would never be effective at curbing crime, only exacerbate crimes by outlawing things that Americans considered...American. Prohibition is the perfect example. The thing is low gun crime (or any crime) in Japan is rooted not in the strict gun law but the same reason such draconian law can exist in the first place. Japanese culture (most Asian cultures actually) places huge importance in authority and law to a point that they are slaves to them.

5) I'm sure all of the armed criminals would support you in making this incredibly naive and somewhat retarded suggestion.

6) Why just illegal gun ownership? Why not give monetary reward for all reports that lead to felony conviction? I'm sure states police department have plenty money to just throw at people.

7) Most already do. You have yet to provide any evidence that guns from legal private sales represent significant portions of gun violence.

@Mighty-Lu-Bu: Firearms are already regulated. What you want to do, it seems to me, is ban them from civilian use entirely. Or make it so onerous and financially prohibitive(like a sin tax) so that only a very few can afford them.

What the ****!!!!! hahaha Man this is insane. I never said I wanted to ban firearms entirely. This is why laws don't change, because right wing not jobs just spew nonsnese. Firearms are not being regulated correctly and that needs to change.

Yeah I think you guys should definitely do something about that over there, it just seems to be getting more and more crazy there. I blame fearmongering and selfishness. "They're going to come and take all my guns!". "Why should I have to give up anything?".

@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@Wasdie said:

@Mighty-Lu-Bu: Actually...

That link you posted is full of shit. The 2nd Amendment does explicitly define the right for the people to own weapons. Militias are not separate from the people. They are one in the same.

Either way, it needs to be reformed for modern times.

Uh, that's what the supreme court does. And they upheld American's 2nd amendment right in DC vs Heller back in 2008.

What is correct in your eyes is not actually correct. I've tried to show you that. Calling us right wing nut jobs doesn't do anything to detract from our points.

Slamming your head against the wall and screaming that we need more gun control isn't the answer. Maybe you should actually take the time to understand the issue that you're advocating for.

I've already made that clear- there needs to be more regulations and firearms need to be regulated properly. If they we regulated properly, we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place.

The thing is laws have been changing. That's where the cake analogy comes in. Our 2nd amendment rights have been eroding away because 2nd amendment right advocates have been compromising; when gun laws don't work, they don't get repealed, anti-2nd amendment politicians just want more restrictions.

And stop politicizing the issue by throwing around terms like right wing nut jobs, leave that simplification for politicians and their retarded bases. Learn to think independently of your aligned party's bullshit.

@uninspiredcup said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Seems to be an American thing, everything is great here. Pretty much guaranteed a long life with almost no chance of being shot up.

I imagine aside from those bit unstable fellows you see collecting and posting guns online under the impression they are John Rambo, probably a lot of it has to do with tightly compacted cities and poverty.

I suggest you do the math....

It suggests, yep, little chance of getting shot up.

Good times.

Can't argue with hard numbers... but I'm sure some will come up with some bullsh** reason as to why these numbers don't mean sh**.

I seriously don't understand why some Americans are so against gun control?? Can someone explain it to me? It's not like guns will be completely banned. An example is here in Australia. We had a lot of mass shootings culminating in a big one in 1996 (35 people killed). Since gun controls were introduced (not completely banned, people can still own guns , except there are some guidelines now), we have had ZERO mass shootings. I'm sorry but you can't argue with facts.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm going to get flamed but whatever.

I am not afiliated with any political party because they are both garbage- they both have an agenda and I just want what is best for my country. That being said, however, when someone says that I am suggesting that all firearms be banned when all I want them to be is regulated better is absolutely crazy. Whenever you talk about more regulations, firearm advocates think people are trying to take their guns away. I don't want to take any one's firearms away, I want them to be regulated better by the federal government so we can stop having massacres every couple of weeks. The problem is guys' like airshcoker, who will absolutely not compromise in anyway and then they start babling insane shit like we are trying to take firearms away. He doesn't want guns to be regulated better because it would incovenience him which is even more ridiculous. Again gun regulation isn't suppose to take law abiding citizens' rights away, it is suppose to stop those who are not law abiding citizens. All I want is America to be a better place and if you're against than **** you and the horse you rode in on.

Whether its outright trying to ban guns, or make more restrictions, Not only will it make people unhappy of losing rights, and possibly can ignite protests and cause America to just be in more danger, and not become safer, more restrictions/bans will never stop people from trying to find ways and succeed at getting guns illegally.