We need to reform America's gun laws

It seems like every week there is a new tragedy where a mentally unstable gunman open fires and kills a group of innocent people. Seriously how many more people have to die before we completely reform our gun laws? I am not suggesting that we ban guns, but we need stricter laws to prevent dangerous people from owning guns or having access to them. In most states, there really isn't a formal background check... you have got to be shitting me! You don't have a felony? Ok here is a gun! This is what needs to happen so we prevent even more people from getting killed:

1) Before you get a gun from a gun store, you must answer a series of questions and even after that there needs to be a waiting period. People who work at gun stores need to be more vigilant!

Some questions like do you have any tattoos? What are they? Do you have any gang or other affiliations? Have you ever been depressed or suicidal? Do you drink or do any drugs? I mean come on guys this is basic stuff.

2) Every person who attempts to buy a gun in the United States should have a free mandatory psych evaluation before the gun is even in their possession. If they pass the evaluation and only if they pass then they can legally own a gun.

3) Automatic weapons/ machine guns need to be banned from civilian use period. There is no reason for any civilian to own these types of weapons and it is scary that almost 40 states allow you to purchase and legally own machine guns. These types of weapons should only be used by military and police forces.

4) People who legally have guns must keep them locked or secured in a gun safe when not in use. After you register your weapons you will be assigned an individual who must make random checks every few months or so with the addition of local law enforcement to make sure there aren't guns lying around. I'm not talking just heavy fees here; I am talking felony charges because it is ridiculous how many people have died in the last 3 years because one of their relatives had a firearm lying around. In addition, if a crime is committed with your weapon, congratulations, you’re getting charges slapped on you and you are going to prison. The days of, “oh my gun was stolen” need to end because if your gun was properly secured, a crime wouldn’t have been committed in the first place.

Now people would probably say I'm against America or owning firearms, but that isn't true at all. I love guns and I served in the Marines for several years, but I also live in California- one of most of strictest states to own a gun and where there aren't a lot of large scale shootings. The gun laws in most states are a complete joke and there needs to be a gun control reformation. These states need to follow states like California and New York; furthermore, there should be armed police officers at elementary schools, high schools, college campuses, movie theaters, banks and hell maybe even grocery stores. Doing all of this would provide a ton of jobs, but it would also prevent the loss of life.

What does everyone think? I know the NRA assholes don't want change, but if nothing changes people will continue to die bottom line.

Quick question: When is the last time the O.P. had a psych evaluation?

The last time I had a psych eveluation was in Feburary of 2010 when my period of active service was coming to an end.

We already had this debate after Sandy Hook. People who wanted these things lost, and the people who decided it was okay to stand by and do nothing won.

The nation decided it was cool to let children die so long as people could continue to have easy access to guns. The debate is over.

It is just ridiculous... why aren't we talking about this? This is suppose to be a democracy right because at times it feels more like a dictatorship.

Why were you evaluated? I was in the military and never had a psychological evaluation...is that something new?

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131

I don't know if it is something new, but it was part of a program offered by unit that was mandatory. (It was a transition to civilian life program.) I didn't think of it as anything serious.

Our gun laws only need very minor reforms. None of which are what you suggest. At the very basic level you are incorrect in saying there isn't a formal background check system. Every person who buys a gun from a gun store goes through a NICS background check.

I should have to answer your questions? It's none of your business why I purchase a firearm. The NICS check should satisfy any concerns the government may have.

More people are killed by cars every year than guns. If you want me to go through a psych evaluation then you must go through one to renew your drivers license. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Your basic premise that the desire to own a firearm should be treated as something that needs further investigation by a mental health professional is absurd.

Automatic weapons are very, very rare in this country. The ATF regulates their sale very well. There's a reason most gun crime isn't committed with automatic weapons. In fact, I can't remember the last time I heard of an automatic weapon being used in a crime.

So your solution is to treat me like a criminal? The vast majority of legal gun owners aren't the ones who commit any crimes. Your solution would not only be prohibitively expensive and outrageous, but it would probably be unconstitutional as well. Owning a firearm doesn't give a cop probable cause to search my home for any reason.

You sound like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Tell me, specifically, how the NY SAFE Act protects New Yorkers. I'm a New Yorker and I have to live with the law. How does registering an AR-15 make someone safer? How does preventing me from buying a new rifle with certain aesthetic features make anybody safer? What would a background check system on ammunition do that a background check when I bought the rifle didn't? How does preventing me from buying ammunition online make anybody safer? How does preventing people from carrying more than seven rounds in their magazine(but still keeping 10 round magazines legal) protect anybody?

I'm more than willing to reform gun control laws. But only until concessions are made for me and the rest of this country's gun owners.

"Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. I received it from the 2nd amendment and the Dick act of 1902.

Along you come and say, "Give me that cake." I say, "No, it's my cake." You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.

Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.

There I am with my half of the cake, and you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."

I say, "No, it's my cake."

You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.

So, we have your compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.

And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.

You say, "Let's compromise once more." What do I get out of this compromise? I get to keep one eighth of what's left of the cake I already own?

So, we have your compromise -- let us call this one the Machine gun ban of 1986 -- and I'm left holding what is now just an eighth of my cake.

I sit back in the corner with just my eighth of cake that I once owned outright and completely, I glance up and here you come once more.

You say nothing and just grab my cake; This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.

Then we compromised with the Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble), the HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble), the Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM), the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being reasonable, and wondering why we won't compromise."

Yes, we do.

New York and California have the strictest gun laws in the country so your response is irrelevent. Also, you should have to anwser questions, because people who work at gun stores have an obligation to not sell guns to people who they think shouldn't be owning or operating them in the first place. Your not going to tell me anything thing new- my dad was a cop for over 30 years and I served in the Marines for 8 years. The background check is just the very tip of the iceberg- guns should be locked away when not in use. All of my dad's guns were ALWAYS in a gun safe except for his side arm which he always had on him, but he was a police officer.!

When you really look at it, a pysch evulation isn't too far fetched. That also isn't an argument because more people in the U.S. own cars than they do guns so of course more people die in car accidents, but that's just what they are- accidents. Cars are not meant to be weapons, but on the other hand firearms were meant to kill people. You have a very narrow minded way of thinking my friend.

No we don't.

@airshocker: What nutjob did you copy and paste that from

I'm in the mood for some cake.

For all the might of the left political machine they have done a poor job holding Republicans feet to the fire regarding at least some part of the solutions to this problem, specifically the mental health aspect. Republicans continue to talk about the mental health aspect but I haven't heard of any concrete proposals to that affect. I would take them to task each time one of this situations happened, to work on a bi-partisan way (don't laugh, this Congress has actually passed significant bi-partisan legislation this session) to craft legislation dealing with the mental health aspect of the equation.

And it has to be just mental health (at least at first) to have any chance at passing. Some lefties just wanna go for the home run and don't wanna grind it out for incremental steps. Take their word and run with it. It would be a political win for both parties, you know, aside from addressing the issue.

You're not doing a very good job making your point. Tell me specifically how the NY SAFE Act makes people safer.

No I shouldn't. I'm a law abiding citizen, not to mention a police officer. There is no reason somebody who obeys the laws should have to answer anything other than what's on the NICS form. It's unreasonable to expect gun store owners to be mind readers. This is why we have NICS. Since you obviously don't know what you're talking about, here's the NICS form:

Your military service and the fact that your dad was a cop is irrelevant when you don't know what it is that you're talking about. I never once said anything about the storage of firearms. Read my post and you will see that.

People get accidentally killed with guns too. Firearms were meant for a few reasons, not just to kill people.

Now please respond to my original post instead of disregarding almost all of it in order to save face.

Why is whoever wrote that a nut job? Because they disagree with you?

Why do people always jump on the gun control wagon when the reason behind these shootings isn't the availability of guns, but the problem of mental illness being a taboo subject that most tend to shy away from discussing openly and constructively?

The reason these people do these violent things is because they have issues that could be easily remedied with compassionate assistance from trained experts... not because they have a gun.

Why are you being so vague? What aspect of the "mental health equation" needs to be addressed and what suggestion do you have for fixing it?

My biggest concern is very lax open carry laws that various states are now rolling out. I have no problem with people owning guns, especially if they are trained, and mentally stable.

And that is the biggest point. We perhaps need refinement of the current laws, and make sure that each state has a useful background check law in place. But even more than that, this country needs to invest in reform of the identification and TREATMENT of those people that have a variety of mental issues. We ignore and denigrate people who suffer, rather than helping them.

This country is averse to any kind of education, whether it is formal education, sex ed, gun rights and gun use education, and civics. A little more knowledge and understanding would go a long way to avoid this kind of situation.

Just saying "MORE CONTROL NOW" is not dealing with the subtlety of the 2nd amendment issue in this country. Taking away guns isn't the answer.

Yes, and because gun culture is creepy

I am also concerned by open-carry.

What we really need is a mental illness index that gets reported to NICS. For that to happen, though, there are privacy issues that need to be dealt with. We can't just rely on the NCIC and III because some people who are mentally troubled have no criminal history.

Good reasoning. ::Rolls eyes::

@Master_Live: There is no "solution" for mental health issues or gun violence. There are too many individual factors. "Mental health reform" is a buzzword (phrase) that makes no sense. There is no real consensus on what constitutes a mental illness. A person's mental state fluctuates constantly too. It's an impossible figure to quantify and categorize.

This is also not as much as a right vs. left debate as you may thing. There are a lot of Democrats throughout the nation that aren't for stricter gun control. In a lot of blue districts, the democrat lost their position when they started pushing for gun control. People are willing to switch their vote over the issue. The Democrats couldn't even push their own party to agree on gun control measures at the federal level.

There is just no simple "solution" for any of these things. Gun crime is actually down throughout the nation and has been following that trend for a few years. A large chunk of gun crime comes from black people shooting other black people in poverty stricken areas of big cities. The only real cure for that, as LA found out, is to flood the area with more police and dedicated a larger chunk of the police force to enforcing laws and maintaining order in these areas. A lot of cities don't want to spend that kind of money and try to focus on gun control as a solution.

The biggest thing that skews gun death numbers is that suicides are included in that. Suicides are a separate issue from gun ownership and gun crime. That's more along the lines of mental health issues, but like I said before, that's a very fluid and difficult thing to act on.

firearms should be equipped with image recognition technology that prevents them from firing upon unarmed people

@Mighty-Lu-Bu:

1)They do. Anyone getting a gun from a store have to go through a background check. Even if you buy the gun from someone online from a different state, the transfer have to be handled by a dealer which also means check. That's the current law, so in effect what you are suggesting isn't actually changing anything. Also individual dealers do have the right to refuse business to anyone they deem dangerous. Unfortunately, that means they apply their own personal prejudice in that judgement so you have idiots that refuse to sell guns to all Muslims.

2)Sounds good on paper, but such mandatory psych eval program would be a huge waste for Federal and state resource. The law around being put on the prohibited list is already very generous.

3)When was the last time those legally owned NFA items (like select fire weapons, SBRs/SBS, or suppressors) used in a homicide or even any crime? I can't think of ANY. But somehow you want them banned because that make you FEEL safer?

4)Many more people died each year of heart conditions, cancer due to unhealthy life styles. Not to mention accidental falls and poisoning. Should we make laws to have the police come check our house for unsafe conditions? Or subject ourselves to enforcement to eat healthy?

Also not a lot of mass shooting in Cali? You are shitting me right? Cali is one of the top candidates for mass shooting capital of US.

http://qz.com/463260/all-204-mass-shootings-so-far-this-year-in-america-mapped/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

@airshocker: How does the NY SAFE Act make people safer?

-Ban on assault weapons except for certain individuals who are "grandfathered" in the system, but who are required to recertify their firearms every 5 years. This one is pretty self explanatory.

-A magazine capacity limit which means only magazines of 7 rounds or less can be sold in New York. Again, pretty self explanatory- what is safer? A magazine holding 30 rounds or one holding 7?

-Ammunition sale regulations. This makes it so that not just anyone can buy ammo (especially online) and there will always be an electronic paper trail.

-Also probably the biggest one would be the mental health alerts where medical mental health officals need to report mental health issues to the proper officals.

It's a good start, but we need more.

New gun laws aren't suppose to target law abiding citizens, they are suppose to target the people who aren't law abiding citizens. Would it be a hassle? Of course it would, but in the end it would be worth it.

No it's not self-explanatory nor are you even correct in your understanding of the law. Most gun crimes are committed with HANDGUNS, not rifles. So you have effectively banned the sale of AR-15s with pistol grips for no other purpose than because it looks scary. AR-15s that are NY SAFE Act compliant are still readily available and are just as effective as non-compliant AR-15s. Furthermore, the law requires us to renew our PISTOL licenses every five years, not get our firearms certified. Also, almost all individuals that owned an AR-15 were allowed to register.

No, it means that 10 round magazines are only allowed to carry seven rounds. Tell me how that makes people safer. Criminals aren't going to follow that regulation. Only law abiding citizens will, who will then be at a disadvantage when a criminal has 10 rounds, plus one in the tube, to work with and they only have seven plus one in the tube.

The ammunition sale regulations are presently being scrapped. The State Police said that it is impossible to implement a system that would conduct a seamless background check at the point of sale for ammo. How would this stop someone who isn't a criminal and plans to shoot up a school or a mall? It wouldn't. So again, another useless regulation to try and make yourself feel better.

No argument here about the mental health reporting. That needs to be fixed country wide.

It's not a good start. It's a hugely flawed bill that was passed by people who don't know anything about guns.

Yet they do target law abiding citizens like me. There is no legitimate reason I shouldn't be allowed to buy an AR-15 with a pistol grip, an adjustable stock and a foregrip from a gun store in New York. There is no reason I should have to go through a background check to buy ammo. There is no reason I shouldn't be allowed to buy ammo off the internet. It's not simply a hassle. It's making my hobby prohibitively expensive. I have to pay an FFL $50 for him to allow me to send ammo to his store when I buy online. That is even if I can find an online retailer that's willing to go through the trouble to help me out. How is that simply a hassle?

Do you think it would be impossible for them to get guns on the black market?

Spoken like a true pog, that's if you were indeed former military. Since we are talking about police and gun control:

Law enforcement says gun restrictions are ineffective: Survey

So you're saying you know how to fight crime better than the people who actually does it on a daily basis?

Also, why is the cause of the death relevant? Are the accidental death worth less than homicide? If the bottomline here is saving lives, then why the focus on ineffective policies on something that doesn't even rate in the top 5 cause of death in the US?

Seems to be an American thing, everything is great here. Pretty much guaranteed a long life with almost no chance of being shot up.

I imagine aside from those bit unstable fellows you see collecting and posting guns online under the impression they are John Rambo, probably a lot of it has to do with tightly compacted cities and poverty.

I suggest you do the math....

Your initial comments make me wonder if you are crazy. Now I don't intend to offend you so hear me out. I don't question your mental state but you sound absolutely nuts with some of your comments. Tattoos should be a red flag and a potential hamper to one exercising a right? Machine guns? You make it sound as if one can walk into a sporting goods store and walk out with a machine gun and that's not the way it works. You have to jump through some hoops and hope the stars align for that to happen. The general impression I get is that you've never purchased a firearm because quite a bit of your concerns are addressed in an application depending on where you live. Much of your lament stems on emotion rather than facts surrounding the actual purchase of a firearm and in general, Constitutionality.

BTW, most states do not have large scale shootings. I do recall a large scale shooting in California a few months back. Remember the kid who went ape shit because girls didn't find him attractive? Remember him?

Gun laws need major reform! In 44 states you can literally buy a gun at a garage sale with no questions asked. Felons do this to get guns all the time.

1. The CURRENT interpretation of second amendment needs to be abolished. Never before in history was it ever so bastardized. It is clear to anyone who knows history and isn't beholden to interests of the gun lobby that the second amendment has always been about a state's right to form and maintain militias for the purpose of state defense, hence the word "state" in the amendment. The second amendment, not originally included in the constitution, obviously, was added to ease the fear of states that they might one day face a threat from a federal government with an army, as they feared the influence of a federal government that operated like the one in England.

2. Personal gun ownership should be a privilege, not a right, just like it is in just about every other developed country in the world, afforded to those who can CONTINUALLY demonstrate responsibility to own a gun.

3. Gun owners should have to continually demonstrate their responsibility to own a gun with yearly background checks, psych tests, licensure and registration, mandatory training courses every year, and by buying mandatory liability insurance, all out of their pocket. If it's OK to register and show your license to vote, it should be OK for gun ownership.

4. Even touching a gun should get you 5 years in jail if you are not licensed and registered. See Japan.

5. Instead of being the largest "guns allowed zone", the streets of America should be 100% gun-free, even for most police, with very harsh penalties for non-compliance. You gun does not leave your house property, period. Vehicles not included. Homes only.

6. Citizens should also be financially rewarded for reporting unlawful gun owners and users, just like they are rewarded for reporting tax cheats.

7. ALL transfers of guns need to happen at a licensed dealer or police station where you must have completed the requirements of #3, beforehand.

It suggests, yep, little chance of getting shot up.

Good times.

If I am a said gun store owner and someone comes in to my shop covered in gang or racial tattoos I probably won't sell to them. I didn't make that particularly clear so I apologize. Also I was in the Marines and I have a lot of friends from Arkansas, South Dakota, and Louisiana etc. who said it is extremely easy to obtain firearms and most of the time there is no permit even required. Also from my understanding, at least according to my friends, Arkansas only does a background check for concealed weapons only. Things might have changed in the last few years, but I am sure there are plenty of states like this where receiving a firearm legally is extremely easy. Maybe someone from one of these states can chime in?

Also, what you are referring to are the 2014 Isla Vista killings which happened last year. I was living in Isla Vista with my girlfriend when this happened and it occurred only 3 blocks away from our apartment complex. In this incident, 3 people were shot and killed (including the shooter from a self-inflicted gunshot wound), 3 people were stabbed to death and 14 others were injured. He got the gun(s) from his parents and I firmly believe that his parents should be held accountable. Also I don't think the mental law applies in CA and it was documented that he was mentally distrubed.

There are more people killed annually by knives and hammers than guns. Maybe we should have a waiting period before those items are bought.

I agree with everything on here, you sir are 100% correct!

Well, I'm no expert on gun control vis-a-vis mental health or anything but perhaps the US government could provide more incentives for states to report people which have been involuntary committed to mental institutions to the NICS. Perhaps requiring a psych evaluation before purchasing a gun. In reality just a small number of these shootings a committed by "mentally ill" individuals.

Once that is taking of the table (and things like the gun show loophole are closed) and then the random shootings continue then the United States will have to face the reality that due to the high number of guns available and relatively easy access to them the United States will continue to show a statistical higher rate of gun deaths than other "1st world countries" (read: Europe); at least for the foreseeable future. And if the citizens decided against more drastic measures then everyone should make peace with that fact. And that would be that.

This gun reform needs to happen and it needs to affect all 50 states!

@Mighty-Lu-Bu: if a school full of young children getting massacred didn't make people support reform nothing will.

I'm aware of the intricacies of gun control politics inside the US. Shootings committed by "mentally ill" individuals are just a fraction of total shootings/massacres, it is more about not leaving any stone unturned; crossing all t's. Then the debate can move on from this red hearing.

Yeah, just an example of how fucked up the United States has become.

"The Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/25/1171716/-The-Second-Amendment-Has-Nothing-to-Do-with-Gun-Ownership

@Mighty-Lu-Bu: Actually...

That link you posted is full of shit. The 2nd Amendment does explicitly define the right for the people to own weapons. Militias are not separate from the people. They are one in the same.