The destruction of my Christian Faith

Well, you could always join me and believe in Zeus:D

lordreaven

Odin>Zeus:twisted:

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because what I believe makes the most sense of what I know about the world.

Theokhoth

And why use that as a criterion?

Seems more practical nowadays.

So if you wanted to use a different one, you could just arbitrarily do so and then be 100% committed in your new belief?

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Well, you could always join me and believe in Zeus:D

LostProphetFLCL

Odin>Zeus:twisted:

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

2. I didnt feel like reading 2

all I have to say is u better believe in and worship GOD or your going to hell........its the way it is

chrisrooR

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]You know, what I find unfortunate is: If God is real, it means the following: - The chances of your beliefs, opinions, and conflicts meaning squat to him not sending you to Hell seems pretty darn high. It's basically a "My rules, have fun!" - You don't have to "agree" with all things God to believe in him, last I checked. Finding potential logical holes won't confirm or deny his existence. -Does anyone know if God allows you to say anything or explain yourself before he drops you? Or is it just "lolTooBad!"? (Assuming he was real. Hearing an Atheist's trolling opinions wouldn't be worth responding to. If he/she was trolling, that is~)chrisrooR

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

And why use that as a criterion?

GabuEx

Seems more practical nowadays.

So if you wanted to use a different one, you could just arbitrarily do so and then be 100% committed in your new belief?

Sure, if I didn't think my current one was practical anymore. I would probably try to integrate the two unless they diametrically opposed eachother.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

You are using the word "cannot" in a way that implies that it is physically impossible to do ("I cannot lift seven thousand pounds on my back") when that simply is not how it is here. I CAN believe my desk is omnipotent. There is nothing stopping me from doing so if I want; but I don't. I CAN believe the Earth is flat, and, indeed, there are some people who actually do. But I don't want to.

Juken7

If there is a reason he believes the earth is round and god doesn't exist, then he can't just believe in something contrary because he wants to.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Seems more practical nowadays.

Theokhoth

So if you wanted to use a different one, you could just arbitrarily do so and then be 100% committed in your new belief?

Sure, if I didn't think my current one was practical anymore. I would probably try to integrate the two unless they diametrically opposed eachother.

No, I mean arbitrarily. To say that someone can choose to believe in something is to make it sound as though their beliefs are akin to the clothes they choose when they wake up in the morning, which is my point. Unless one's beliefs are entirely unrelated to any external forces acting on someone, then you can't really say that that person can simply choose to believe something and then believe it.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

2. I didnt feel like reading 2

all I have to say is u better believe in and worship GOD or your going to hell........its the way it is

x8VXU6

So if he was raised something else, and wan't really introduced to christianity, then he should go to hell?

I think that there is something wrong with that.

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"] So if a doctor cures cancer, yet knowingly does not accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior he should burn eternally in the fires of damnation? I don't understand this logic. His cure for cancer saved, potentially, millions of lives, and saved millions of people from suffering.cabose38

So if he was raised something else, and wan't really introduced to christianity, then he should go to hell?

I think that there is something wrong with that.

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

GabuEx

How? Simple: God's love for us is not dependent on our belief in him. If it were, then it would not be unconditional, and therefore would not be true love, but would rather be that which even sinners do (Luke 6:32)

Yes, how can he go to heavan and not accept Jesus as his savior or worship GOD.

x8VXU6

Here's a question: can you find me one instance in the Bible in which Jesus told a crowd to accept him as their savior or else they would not to go heaven? Any instance will do. In fact, even finding Jesus saying the word "savior" in any context will do.

TRUE!!!!!!!!! that doesnt mean if u dont worship or believe in God that u still can go to heaven

x8VXU6

Why not?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

So if you wanted to use a different one, you could just arbitrarily do so and then be 100% committed in your new belief?

GabuEx

Sure, if I didn't think my current one was practical anymore. I would probably try to integrate the two unless they diametrically opposed eachother.

No, I mean arbitrarily. To say that someone can choose to believe in something is to make it sound as though their beliefs are akin to the clothes they choose when they wake up in the morning, which is my point. Unless one's beliefs are entirely unrelated to any external forces acting on someone, then you can't really say that that person can simply choose to believe something and then believe it.

If a person is aware of reality outside of their external forces then what do external forces matter? People in the United States know about Buddhism, an Eastern philosophy with little to no impact on their culture and yet there are 1.5 million Buddhists in the United States.

Every single thing you do or believe boils down to what you want. Invariably. You want to live, so you continue to eat, breathe and sleep. You can choose to stop whenever you want and die. You want personal freedom, so you choose not to break the law and go to prison. You want to believe in something that fits your preferences (maybe it guarantees a happy afterlife, maybe it's therapeutic, maybe it's a little of everything in one nice package), so you find something that lines up with those preferences and you believe in it. If you found something that fit those better, you'd change your beliefs to that. That can stop you from doing what you want is the laws of physics (you can't teloport no matter how much you want to), but they don't affect your beliefs.

I like the beliefs I have. They work for me. Why would I want to change that?

If a person is aware of reality outside of their external forces then what do external forces matter? People in the United States know about Buddhism, an Eastern philosophy with little to no impact on their culture and yet there are 1.5 million Buddhists in the United States.

Every single thing you do or believe boils down to what you want. Invariably. You want to live, so you continue to eat, breathe and sleep. You can choose to stop whenever you want and die. You want personal freedom, so you choose not to break the law and go to prison. You want to believe in something that fits your preferences (maybe it guarantees a happy afterlife, maybe it's therapeutic, maybe it's a little of everything in one nice package), so you find something that lines up with those preferences and you believe in it. If you found something that fit those better, you'd change your beliefs to that.

I like the beliefs I have. They work for me. Why would I want to change that?

Theokhoth

And do you control what you want?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

x8VXU6

How? Simple: God's love for us is not dependent on our belief in him. If it were, then it would not be unconditional, and therefore would not be true love, but would rather be that which even sinners do (Luke 6:32)

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

If a person is aware of reality outside of their external forces then what do external forces matter? People in the United States know about Buddhism, an Eastern philosophy with little to no impact on their culture and yet there are 1.5 million Buddhists in the United States.

Every single thing you do or believe boils down to what you want. Invariably. You want to live, so you continue to eat, breathe and sleep. You can choose to stop whenever you want and die. You want personal freedom, so you choose not to break the law and go to prison. You want to believe in something that fits your preferences (maybe it guarantees a happy afterlife, maybe it's therapeutic, maybe it's a little of everything in one nice package), so you find something that lines up with those preferences and you believe in it. If you found something that fit those better, you'd change your beliefs to that.

I like the beliefs I have. They work for me. Why would I want to change that?

GabuEx

And do you control what you want?

Sure.

[QUOTE="cabose38"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]Yes, how can he go to heavan and not accept Jesus as his savior or worship GOD. GOD gave him the power to save all those ppl and he does believe in him but he should go to the kingdom of GOD, it doesnt work that way

chrisrooR

So if he was raised something else, and wan't really introduced to christianity, then he should go to hell?

I think that there is something wrong with that.

1.The apostle John wrote:"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:16–18, NIV)

I'm using this quote from John because I wanted to discuss the Christian belief that, if we do not believe in Jesus, we are condemned. This belief for me is an issue. An example:

A humanitarian who help people's lives get back on track. She helps drug addicts get clean, she gives homeless people homes to live in, and helps them get jobs and their kids back. Her office is littered with letters that are stained with tears from grown men thanking her for her kindness and help. She has lives a very selfless life. She is a buddhist.

She does not believe in Jesus, she does not "pray" for people. She helps people 'physically'. Christians who know her may love her and praise her. All I have to say to those Christians is this: "Do you realise, that according to your God, she is going to burn in hell for all eternity? How will Heaven be? Knowing that she is burning in hell at this very moment, and you to be fair, may have done nothing to make this world a better place, will go to Heaven? Is this the kind of God that shows Love?

A God who is supposed to have infinite love, condemns this women to burn in hell for eternity with rapists and murderers.

"Dear friends, let us love one another for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." (1 John 4:7–8, NIV)

God gives us free will and would want us to follow the 'Golden rule'(show love etc.) or else be condemned to Hell for eternity. This woman has shown great love for people, through her behaviours. Yet because of her beliefs she is going to burn in hell for eternity. I refuse to believe this.

2. Christianity has taught me that God has given us free will to choose to go to Heaven or Hell. Through believing in Christ our Saviour or not. To control one's behaviour that shows love and fairness. There is one thing that I have an issue with:

it would seem that I can control my behaviors, but not my beliefs.

As an agnostic who does not believe in the Christian religion, according to the Bible, I am destined to burn in Hell for eternity. I have never murdered anyone but I'm being sent to hell because Icannot believe in their God, if I were to die tommorow, I would be sent to hell. How can I follow a religion if I am not sure if it is the true way. I cannot control this.

I am being punished for that which I cannot control.

Christians may argue that I do in fact have control of my beliefs and I am not trying hard enough to believe. Wrong. I'm at a point now that trying to convince me that the Christian God exists through texts of the Bible and other biblical sources, would be like trying to convince me the world is flat.

I feel I'm at a point of no return, is it my fault that my beliefs do not allow me to believe the world is flat? What if I try to convince you your desk is omnipotent, you would never believe me.

I cannot simply make the choice to believe the world is flat, nor can you choose to believe your desk is omnipotent.

So again according to Christian beliefs, I am going to be sent to hell for something I cannot control. So much for infinite love.

I have many more different points, but these are the most pressing to me at this moment. Lets try to have a civil discussion.

OneShot112

1. If you don't know what is wrong/right, it is not a sin, therefore you do not go to hell. Many people say that finding Jesus doesn't have to be following the Christian faith, but following his teachings and living a good life.

2. This question is just very confusing, but I think I understand, and it really kind of comes back to the answer to #1.I see it sort of like if someone (your thoughts) holds you at gun point and tells you to go rob a bank (quit believing in Jesus). You have no control over the situation so again, it is not considered a sin and you will not suffer.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

If a person is aware of reality outside of their external forces then what do external forces matter? People in the United States know about Buddhism, an Eastern philosophy with little to no impact on their culture and yet there are 1.5 million Buddhists in the United States.

Every single thing you do or believe boils down to what you want. Invariably. You want to live, so you continue to eat, breathe and sleep. You can choose to stop whenever you want and die. You want personal freedom, so you choose not to break the law and go to prison. You want to believe in something that fits your preferences (maybe it guarantees a happy afterlife, maybe it's therapeutic, maybe it's a little of everything in one nice package), so you find something that lines up with those preferences and you believe in it. If you found something that fit those better, you'd change your beliefs to that.

I like the beliefs I have. They work for me. Why would I want to change that?

Theokhoth

And do you control what you want?

Sure.

OK then, make yourself want to become an atheist.

And if your response is "I don't want to", then it seems to me that that would be a tacit admission that you do not, in fact, control what you want, no?

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

TRUE!!!!!!!!! that doesnt mean if u dont worship or believe in God that u still can go to heaven

GabuEx

Why not?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

And do you control what you want?

GabuEx

Sure.

OK then, make yourself want to become an atheist.

And if your response is "I don't want to", then it seems to me that that would be a tacit admission that you do not, in fact, control what you want, no?

Atheism doesn't meet my preferences like Christianity does, so I'd prefer to stay a Christian. If it did, though, think of it like this: rather than making it about what you want, make it about what you want more:

I want to eat cake and nothing but cake everyday but I also want to remain healthy. Eventually I'm going to choose either cake or no cake. If I choose cake, then it's not just because I want cake but also because I want cake MORE than I want to be healthy. I want to believe in God and I don't want to believe in God, but I choose to believe in God because I want to more than I want to not believe in God.

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

How? Simple: God's love for us is not dependent on our belief in him. If it were, then it would not be unconditional, and therefore would not be true love, but would rather be that which even sinners do (Luke 6:32)

markop2003

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

And do you control what you want?

GabuEx

Sure.

OK then, make yourself want to become an atheist.

And if your response is "I don't want to", then it seems to me that that would be a tacit admission that you do not, in fact, control what you want, no?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

TRUE!!!!!!!!! that doesnt mean if u dont worship or believe in God that u still can go to heaven

x8VXU6

Why not?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

TRUE!!!!!!!!! that doesnt mean if u dont worship or believe in God that u still can go to heaven

x8VXU6

Why not?

Why are we talking about believing in heaven? I thought we were talking about going to heaven.

Atheism doesn't meet my preferences like Christianity does, so I'd prefer to stay a Christian. If it did, though, think of it like this: rather than making it about what you want, make it about what you want more:

I want to eat cake and nothing but cake everyday but I also want to remain healthy. Eventually I'm going to choose either cake or no cake. If I choose cake, then it's not just because I want cake but also because I want cake MORE than I want to be healthy. I want to believe in God and I don't want to believe in God, but I choose to believe in God because I want to more than I want to not believe in God.

Theokhoth

Yes, but that's my point. You want these things. Other people do not want these things. Did they choose to want these things? No; these desires came through the combination of their history and their environment, and were imparted on them through external forces. Their actions are responses to stimuli, not arbitrary choices.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Sure, if I didn't think my current one was practical anymore. I would probably try to integrate the two unless they diametrically opposed eachother.

Theokhoth

No, I mean arbitrarily. To say that someone can choose to believe in something is to make it sound as though their beliefs are akin to the clothes they choose when they wake up in the morning, which is my point. Unless one's beliefs are entirely unrelated to any external forces acting on someone, then you can't really say that that person can simply choose to believe something and then believe it.

If a person is aware of reality outside of their external forces then what do external forces matter? People in the United States know about Buddhism, an Eastern philosophy with little to no impact on their culture and yet there are 1.5 million Buddhists in the United States.

Every single thing you do or believe boils down to what you want. Invariably. You want to live, so you continue to eat, breathe and sleep. You can choose to stop whenever you want and die. You want personal freedom, so you choose not to break the law and go to prison. You want to believe in something that fits your preferences (maybe it guarantees a happy afterlife, maybe it's therapeutic, maybe it's a little of everything in one nice package), so you find something that lines up with those preferences and you believe in it. If you found something that fit those better, you'd change your beliefs to that. That can stop you from doing what you want is the laws of physics (you can't teloport no matter how much you want to), but they don't affect your beliefs.

I like the beliefs I have. They work for me. Why would I want to change that?

This is turning out to be a rather interesting discussion, unlike most religious arguments here in OT.

Also, the bolded section is actually incorrect. Quantum entanglement dictates that if two particles of a system get entangled, information from one will be exactly to the other particle, instantaneously, even if they're on opposite ends of the universe.

Also since quantum mechanics dictates things on a probability scale, literally, anything (okay, not exactly sure about omnipotent beings) has a possibility of occuring in the multiverse, so really, if you try long enough (try eternity), physics will allow you to do what you want and not interfere with your beliefs.

Also, when it comes to some necessities to life, it really isn't within your capabilities to prevent (other than harming yourself) them and die.

my curiosity is killing me! allow me to derail this thread a little bit. Do you believe in a rapture?alexside1

If by rapture you mean the thing where Jesus comes back and all the true believers get whisked away to heaven while the sinners get left behind to suffer on Earth... no.

[QUOTE="markop2003"][QUOTE="x8VXU6"]TRUE!!!!!!!!! that doesnt mean if u dont worship or believe in God that u still can go to heaven

x8VXU6

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

x8VXU6

There's a little flaw in that reasoning: why would she go to hell if she doesn't believe that Satan exists.

I could write a long story about the destruction of my Agnostic faith. :P

Your scenario on the lady was extremely unrealistic. No one is perfect. Even if she did all those things like you said she still does wrong ( sin) does she not? She still refuses to accept Jesus who died for her. If she never heard of Jesus then she would not be judged whether or not he knew about him but on her heart. And since your implying that she just doesen't want to accept Jesus and she has heard about him then why shoudent she go to hell? Because of what she didnt do?;No , but because of her heart.

I could write a long story about the destruction of my Agnostic faith. :P

GTbiking4life

"Agnostic faith"?

You have faith that you don't know something, or...? :P

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="cabose38"]

So if he was raised something else, and wan't really introduced to christianity, then he should go to hell?

I think that there is something wrong with that.

x8VXU6

Your scenario on the lady was extremely unrealistic. No one is perfect. Even if she did all those things like you said she still does wrong ( sin) does she not? She still refuses to accept Jesus who died for her. If she never heard of Jesus then she would not be judged whether or not he knew about him but on her heart. And since your implying that she just doesen't want to accept Jesus and she has heard about him then why shoudent she go to hell? Because of what she didnt do?;No , but because of her heart.

gabymimi1

If those who have not heard of Jesus are judged on their heart, then why can't those who have heard of Jesus also be judged by that? That's the problem I always have with this suggestion, it always seems as though telling someone about Jesus accomplishes nothing but putting a stumbling block between them and heaven by presenting them with something that they will likely not be willing to accept, and which they wouldn't have had to accept had you not told them about Jesus.

Everyone sins, regardless of whether or not they've "accepted Jesus". Again, find me one instance of Jesus telling a crowd that they need to accept him as their savior.

Your scenario on the lady was extremely unrealistic. No one is perfect. Even if she did all those things like you said she still does wrong ( sin) does she not? She still refuses to accept Jesus who died for her. If she never heard of Jesus then she would not be judged whether or not he knew about him but on her heart. And since your implying that she just doesen't want to accept Jesus and she has heard about him then why shoudent she go to hell? Because of what she didnt do?;No , but because of her heart.

gabymimi1

I'm not too sure of that also, however I'd like to think that for whatever good we do in life in counts. Regardless of what faith you belief (Or lack of), the good you do will be seen and maybe you won't get condemned? I think in the Catholic tradition it's called 'Indulgences' (No, the word doesn't justify it's definition, don't jump on it too quickly) I'm not God, but if He were all-loving, which I believe He is, I'm sure things get sorted out. =\

IMO, there's a bit of a difference between not being introduced to the Christian doctrine and flat out not believing in it and then bashing it.

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

shinian

There's a little flaw in that reasoning: why would she go to hell if she doesn't believe that Satan exists.

I'm not too sure of that also, however I'd like to think that for whatever good we do in life in counts. Regardless of what faith you belief (Or lack of), the good you do will be seen and maybe you won't get condemned? I think in the Catholic tradition it's called 'Indulgences' (No, the word doesn't justify it's definition, don't jump on it too quickly) I'm not God, but if He were all-loving, which I believe He is, I'm sure things get sorted out. =\

IMO, there's a bit of a difference between not being introduced to the Christian doctrine and flat out not believing in it and then bashing it.

supa_badman

[QUOTE="shinian"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

1. Yes she would go to hell, BECAUSE SHE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! How could she go to the Kingdom of God(Heaven) and not believe in GOD?

supa_badman

There's a little flaw in that reasoning: why would she go to hell if she doesn't believe that Satan exists.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"]

I'm not too sure of that also, however I'd like to think that for whatever good we do in life in counts. Regardless of what faith you belief (Or lack of), the good you do will be seen and maybe you won't get condemned? I think in the Catholic tradition it's called 'Indulgences' (No, the word doesn't justify it's definition, don't jump on it too quickly) I'm not God, but if He were all-loving, which I believe He is, I'm sure things get sorted out. =\

IMO, there's a bit of a difference between not being introduced to the Christian doctrine and flat out not believing in it and then bashing it.

chrisrooR

[QUOTE="supa_badman"][QUOTE="shinian"]

There's a little flaw in that reasoning: why would she go to hell if she doesn't believe that Satan exists.

chrisrooR

I'm fine with that, and I must say that Catholics such as yourself are few and far between (in my own experience with them). All I'm pointing out is that IN SCRIPTURE, precisely in the quoted scripture in the OP, it is said that God will reject those who reject Christianity, no matter what good that person does on Earth. I find this troubling.... chrisrooR

Two things I should note here:

1. It does not speak of "Christianity". That word never appears in the Bible once, and certainly never from Jesus. Jesus was not the first Christian.

2. It also does not say anything to imply that this rejection is eternal. That word does appear in the Bible, but usually as a mistranslation. The doctrine that once you're dead, that's it, your fate is sealed has no basis in the Bible at all.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="supa_badman"]

I'm not too sure of that also, however I'd like to think that for whatever good we do in life in counts. Regardless of what faith you belief (Or lack of), the good you do will be seen and maybe you won't get condemned? I think in the Catholic tradition it's called 'Indulgences' (No, the word doesn't justify it's definition, don't jump on it too quickly) I'm not God, but if He were all-loving, which I believe He is, I'm sure things get sorted out. =\

IMO, there's a bit of a difference between not being introduced to the Christian doctrine and flat out not believing in it and then bashing it.

supa_badman

I agree, this can be interpreted in many differing ways. However, the way I read it is as if it's an ultimatum posed by God. Basically "If you don't accept Christianity, you're going to hell. Period."

[QUOTE="alexside1"]my curiosity is killing me! allow me to derail this thread a little bit. Do you believe in a rapture?GabuEx

If by rapture you mean the thing where Jesus comes back and all the true believers get whisked away to heaven while the sinners get left behind to suffer on Earth... no.

2. It also does not say anything to imply that this rejection is eternal. That word does appear in the Bible, but usually as a mistranslation. The doctrine that once you're dead, that's it, your fate is sealed has no basis in the Bible at all.

GabuEx

For one, it would be a flaw about the idea of God. Pantheism essentially states that God's ever-loving goodness over-flows him and it's a bit out of his control. God can't have something 'out of his control' if he's perfect and just. If it overcomes him, then it means God is flawed and he isn't perfect, then that cancels out the most basic idea of God.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]my curiosity is killing me! allow me to derail this thread a little bit. Do you believe in a rapture?alexside1

If by rapture you mean the thing where Jesus comes back and all the true believers get whisked away to heaven while the sinners get left behind to suffer on Earth... no.

I don't think much of it. :P

The earliest Christians used a whole lot of rather oblique language to avoid persecution. The Jesus fish is an example of that; it comes from the Greek acronym ICHTHYS (Greek for "fish"), which stands for "Iesous CHristos, THeou Yios, Soter", or "Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior", and was used as a "code" so to speak to talk about Jesus without openly talking about Jesus. As a result, I tend to feel that 666 (616 in early manuscripts) is a very veiled reference to Nero.

I mean, either way, I think it's complete nonsense - no offense to anyone - to read the text and suggest that it supports the idea that Jesus is still coming at some point in time in the future. The text explicitly says that Jesus is coming "soon", or "imminently", and I don't think that two thousand years in the future is something one would consider "soon". If the writer did feel that Jesus would return (as many did - 2 Peter contains an admonishment of those who complain that he hasn't come back yet), then I think it's safe to say that he was, well, wrong.