Syrian Refugees

@hillelslovak: No one stated they did. Thats you making that statement. And again, providing refugees an education helps a bunch. Thats just common sense. The UN is not forcing these people to flee.

You have been arguing that it is up to the West to amend the problems of The Middle East. I am telling you over and over again that Islamic reform is known to only come from within. How is this the job of Western liberal democracies, and not that of the other Muslim countries who have the resources to provide?

haven't taken enough. Few thousand? Canada easily has capacity to take millions more. Germany wasn't responsible for them being refugees either, but they've taken much more than Canada and their population density is much higher. I'd be ashamed if I was Canadian.

No i havnt. I stated from the beginning its up to the whole world. Good luck waiting on them to fix themselves though.

@sonicare: Germany also has more money. They can afford to take more refugees. Its not just about space.

@iandizion713 Canada's a G8 country. Their economy never took the hit that most of the world did in the great recession. They have more than enough money to deliver. Robust social systems. Enlightened and open minded people. I believe they should step up and deliver a safe haven to millions of these refugees. Canada has tons of lands, but no people. This would help them in the long term.

@sonicare: Yeah, they are not far behind Germany in wealth. But Germany is also very close over there. But numbers are down. Back few years ago, Germany had almost 600K refugees, now they are below 300K. But yeah, i guess just certain countries vote to take more.

Have you considered that perhaps it's not Canada but the refugees that are preferring to migrate throughout Europe instead? We can certainly take more people but also remember that most of our land is empty for a reason. Most of our population is along the American-Canadian border and the western/eastern coasts. Should we also send them to the Territories? And do people honestly expect Canada, a country with about 35 million people to take in more refugees than a country like Germany, that has over 80 million? We're nowhere near perfect and have our own socioeconomic issues as well. So can we take more? Sure. But how much more? And how much more that would make you and others happy?

Why is it up to the whole world though? Is the Muslim world unable to deal with it's own problems? And why does it have this giant refugee problem? It's like they are escaping people who follow the Quran verse by verse or something......

Wahhabism's target audience is mostly with Sunni Moslems.

Syria has issues with Shia variant vs Sunni variant (Wahhabism).

The problem with Sunni Islam is the "soft power" from Saudi Arabia as the holders of Sunni Islam's holy sites.

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Protestant was a reaction against the Catholic church's soft and hard power.

USA's secular system was a reaction against UK/Europe's Protestant vs Catholic soft and hard power(armed conflicts).

It's not the West's job to deal with inter muslim bloodbaths and schisms.

Surveys Show Muslims in Every Country Less Likely to Justify Killing Civilians than Americans and Israelis

(Pew and Gallup polls)

Percentage of people who said it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians:

• Mormon-Americans 64%
• Christian-Americans 58%
• Jewish-Americans 52%
• Israeli Jews 52%
• Palestinians* 51%
• No religion/Atheists/Agnostics (U.S.A.) 43%
• Nigerians* 43%
• Lebanese* 38%
• Spanish Muslims 31%
• Muslim-Americans 21%
• German Muslims 17%
• French Muslims 16%
• British Muslims 16%
• Egyptians* 15%
• Indonesians* 13%
• Jordanians* 12%
• Pakistanis* 5%
• Turks* 4%

USA's foreign policy with Saudi Arabia was inherited from UK after WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bush,_House_of_Saud

Trump is a wildcard with the current establishment.

That study is incredibly biased and incomplete. It simply listed whether or not people believe it was justified to kill civilians. It did not poll on the killings being for defense of the faith, which is a gigantic qualifier. It also conveniently left out the vast majority of Muslim countries. What tiny minority is not going to be more tolerant than the majority? They polled the most liberal, relatively, Muslim countries, than tell you "Nah, see, Muslims dont want to kill civilians under any circumstance." it is quite blatant cherry picking at it's worst. Loonwatch is a Muslim apologetic network anyway. Look at their facebook page, it's an anti semitic propaganda drawing.

According to a statistical analysis published by UC Berkeley and Oxford University:

Predominantly, Muslim countries average 2.4 murders per annum per 100,000 people, compared to 7.5 in non-Muslim countries. The percentage of the society that is made up of Muslims is an extraordinarily good predictor of a country's murder rate. More authoritarianism in Muslim countries does not account for the difference. I have found that controlling for political regime in statistical analysis does not change the findings. More Muslims, less homicide.

In comparison, the average homicide rate for the 19 largest Christian countries is 11 murders per 100,000 people, compared to the 19 largest Muslim countries which have 2.1 murders per 100,000 people.

Uncontrolled queue jumpers has reawaken Germany's darker past with UK leading the border control arguments which is followed by Poland, Hungary, Baltic states, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Austria, Slovakia and 'etc'. Germany's CDU was smashed in the recent state elections.

France and Italy has pressures from nationalist politics.

Half of all Australians want to ban Muslim immigration. http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/half-of-australia-wants-muslim-ban/7865630

Australia's polls almost mirrors UK's Brexit anti-queue jumpers results.

Hmm, it is almost as if the Quran forbids Muslims from killing each other. Study does not at all account for Muslims murdering people in acts of terrorism in the countries they immigrated too. That data only addresses Muslim majority countries and the homicide rates in them. And it makes sense, it is only dealing with homicide. Muslims obviously do not have much reason to kill the people of their own country. The West? Of course, they are infidels......

It's an obvious distortion and redirection. It's like the old Reza Aslan "The first thing Muhammad did was outlaw slavery!" bit. He neglects to tell you that Muhammad forbade Muslims from enslaving other Muslims. Literally every other group on Earth was fair game.

Is the west responsible for the rift between Sunni and Shia? Did the West institute the Madrassa and create Wahhabism?

http://www.businessinsider.com/turkey-and-saudi-arabia-collaborating-in-syria-2015-5?IR=T

Sunni dominated Turkey and Saudi Arabia are officially collaborating to bring down non-Sunni Assad in Syria.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/bnd-report-on-saudi-arabias-power-struggle-2015-12

Germany's intelligence agency says Saudi Arabia's 'game of thrones' risks tearing the Middle East apart

https://www.rt.com/usa/326748-us-syria-intelligence-hersh/

The Turkish government has refused to halt the flow of foreign jihadists going through Turkey because President Erdogan “is dreaming big – of restoring the Ottoman Empire – and he did not realize the extent to which he could be successful in this.”

http://southfloridareporter.com/28-pages-connect-saudi-prince-to-al-qaeda-leader-supporters-of-911-hijackers/

28 Pages Connect Saudi Prince To Al Qaeda Leader, Supporters Of 9/11 Hijackers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-19/maajid-nawaz-on-being-drawn-into-the-world-of-islamist-extremism/7180614

From 'exporting extremism' to challenging those trying to impose Islam on others.

When rival countries(German/USA/Australia vs Russia) has the similar conclusions that a certain Middle East country or countries playing 'game of thrones', then you a problem.

@ronvalencia: This is the first time I see you type something other than computer hardware! Are you okay, Ron?

I am not hating, but what exactly is all of this pertaining to? It just seems that conflict in the Middle East is always a tangled web of insanity. Sunnis go against Shiites, then some Sunni group is especially crazy, so the Sunnis and Shiites who were fighting go after the group they deem as extremist Sunni, and it goes on an on, getting more insane by the day.

@hillelslovak: Don't forget the Kurd genecide

Since this topic is about refugees, let's examine the Western country with the largest refugee population, Germany:

Donald Trump says Germany now riddled with crime thanks to refugees (Politifact)

Statistics show that crime rates among refugees is lower than crime rates among native Germans. In turn, German crime rates are much lower than American crime rates.

Why is this a surprise? A. You have the German media refusing to talk about refugee crimes time after time. But on top of that, it is an obvious logical line to see that these people, with all the far right groups in Germany, would be afraid of being expelled from the country, so they commit less crimes. I dont see how that is a salient point in any way......

This thread is riddled with lies and half-truths. We've been dealing with this in Europe for the past decade and my only advice to Americans regarding this topic is the following:

When people send you so called "facts" you have to

1) Be aware of the opinions of the sender.

2) For the love of god, check up on the source of the facts. Since this refugee hassle has been happening in Europe for a long time, media institutions that are pro-refugee have been able to coordinate their efforts with government agencies. This is ESPECIALLY true in countries like Sweden and Germany. For example, in Sweden various pro-refugee groups have lobbied the government to remove crime statistics of immigrants from the system. This means that when leftist idiots like some in this thread, post crime statistics of refugees in Europe, in most cases they only pertain to a period of 1-4 years until the refugee gains immigrant status and thus is removed from the system.

Another "fact" that I've seen circulating around the web is how refugee immigration is actually good for the economy. Usually leftists post some shit from the OECD (which they normally hate, but now is OK with for some reason) . The report is based on the fact that municipalities and certain states in European countries get richer from refugee immigration...........want to know why? Well, it's because the EU and/or federal government give them grants.

This is what we Europeans have to deal with on a daily basis.

@sonicare: lol this is priceless coming from an American. The hypocrisy is off the charts.

@hillelslovak:

its a war between russia and the usa what didnt u get about that !?

no, still going on on that stupid stuff they tell u about relegions and other racist things ...

Because the whole world has to live and deal with them. And yes, Muslims can fix their own problems too. They are part of this world too.

indeed ... they are almost like americans ...

before we all lose our minds, a little perspective

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/11/23/youre-more-likely-to-be-fatally-crushed-by-furniture-than-killed-by-a-terrorist/#comments

You're just making a bizarre attempt at whataboutism and trying to distract from Canada's lackluster and frankly shameful performance in this crisis. We can certainly talk about the US and the shameful foreign policy of Clinton/Obama that contributed to this crisis, but that's a separate discussion. Currently, we're talking about the disgraceful job Canada has done on this refugee crisis.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2951263/these-14-countries-have-taken-more-refugees-than-canada/

"Canada places 15th among industrialized countries in accepting refugees, data released Monday shows. The 14 countries that have accepted more refugees than Canada include all Scandinavian countries, most major European countries and the United States. The data, which covered the 12 months between May of 2015 and April of 2016, was published by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development."

"When you look at countries taking in refugees per capita, Canada drops to 20th place. Canada has taken about one refugee for every 2,000 people, compared to 30 in Sweden, 20 in Austria, or about a dozen in Germany, Finland or Norway."

That's just not good. Thats's like giving a dollar to the homeless fund and then claiming that you're helping to stomp out the problem of homelessness and beating your chest. The amount of refugees canada has taken in is far less than the attendance of 1 Justin Bieber concert. Why not make Beliebers of these refugees? Canada has long bragged about robust social systems, free health care, and most importantly cultural tolerance despite n 80% white population. They've looked down their noses at their bigoted neighbors to the south who complain about the millions of illegal immigrants in the US. Time to nut up or shut up.

And since I have converted over to pushing for social justice and political correctedness, I want to give you a heads up about a potentially offensive term you are using. "American" is not the proper term for someone who comes from the United States. I've learned from many of my friends from South America, that they are offended by the use of that term. American can refer to anybody residing in North or South America, so it's unfair that people use it only in reference to people from the US. Instead, try using terms like United States of American, citizen of the United States of american, person who resides in the United States of America or any other such easy to use term. I know your intention were not malicious, but that's the situation.

No m8 you were talking about Canada and brought it up out of nowhere lol as a lame reply to some other poster. And wow my posts before definitely seemed to have struck a nerve. There is no need for the passive aggressiveness and taking everything so personally, sheesh. Were you bullied by a Canadian as a child?

Look at the time frame from that "12 months between May of 2015 and April of 2016," 6 months or so there is from the previous Harper government who was quite poor at handling refugees and other areas. I'd be the first to say the previous government was utterly useless in plenty of areas. I've also said the current government could do more when it comes to refugees so I'm not sure why you're so angry. I don't remember claiming Canada is perfect.

Canada doesn't have an obligation like the US does to take in people whose lives you've destroyed time and time again with your policies and military misadventures.

But furniture doesn't make for a scary boogey man. Can't create episodes of 24 with Sutherland interrogating a love seat.

I'm half joking with these posts, not really intending to be pressing on a sore spot. I can understand people love their country, but I've seen you poke fun at people in the past for being too patriotic so I didn't think you were one of those nationalistic guys. It's easy to be critical of other nations, but apparently no one likes it when that criticism is pointed at their own. But don't get too worked up, I was being fairly facetious after a few rounds.

But in all seriousness, Canada often supports the US and its policy whether explicitly or implicitly. I fully agree with you that the Obama administrations policies in Syria have been disastrous. What's even more scary is that one of the major architects of that plan is likely to be our next president, and despite her faults is still head and shoulders above the other candidate.

If the Muslim world continues to be dictated to by the rest of the world, and are not forced to deal with their self made problem with their own self made solutions, their ideology will continue to be a problem. The whole world dealing with them is ironically what continues this problem.....

Yeah, if the USA and Russia weren't in Syria, Islam would not be a problem at all. What a compelling argument.

@hillelslovak: No one is dictating them, we are working with them. We cant force them to change. Its why Saudi Arabia changes so slow. America didnt start Arab Spring, the people did it on their own. We just help them some.

And for migrants who come to America and other countries, we dont force them either, they do it themselves. We just help them by giving them educations, etc.

The Arab Spring was over in less than a year. Saudi Arabia, and all Muslim countries, change so slow because the thought of a country of infidels from the House of War telling the people of The House of God what to do is not accepted in the Muslim world. That is precisely why Muslim reforms will not work with anything less than the Muslim countries doing it on their own. The more oil money we give the despots, the more military interventions we back one side over the other, the more absurd amount of aid, the more this happens.

And I hate to break it to you, but migrants do not reform Islam. A. They believe many of the same things as the groups they escaped, and B. Nobody in the Muslim majority countries gives a dusty shit about refugees, or their want of reform.

@hillelslovak: Mate you are like talking to a brick wall. You cant believe in conspiracies, you need to stick with facts. Your like them conservatives who go by feelings.

Migrants and refugees are totally different people. I swear debating with you is stupid. You think EVERYONES the bad guy. The world is not white and black, its a complex society that works together.

Conspiracies? What conspiracies? I follow what surveyors of the Muslim world say. Nobody today will say that reform can be forced on the Muslim world from everyone else. You say it can. Why? Well, because. Talk about feelings......

@hillelslovak: Again, no one said anything about forcing. I swear wtf are you even debating?

I am debating far over your head. You still dont get it. The whole issue is that Muslim countries, and the sentiments within them, do not want contact with the west. They view, reliably, polio, smallpox and aids vaccines as western control and think our aid groups are trying to destroy muslims. When we get rid of Sadaam, , yes in bungled dishonest fashion, they are quickly begging for him to come back, because at least he was still a believer. Any attempt, no matter how well intended by the West, is seized upon by Imams, and sentiment is soured against the West, and the Western force either faces gigantic resistance, or outright defeat. Anybody with even a shred of knowledge on the region would know this to be the reality.

Millions of Muslims riot, in multiple countries over the silliest of shit, like foreign tourists in bikinis, and the women are forced to leave the country they are vacationing in, imprisoned, or killed. And this is in the so called relatively liberal Muslim states. And you sit here, and entertain the thought of Islam being reformed in part by an infidel force, and Islam being integrated into liberal values.

No, but none of this matter, correct? Because women are having coffee with each other without chaperones, and they can finally smile in Saudi Arabia! I'm sure if we ignore what they actually believe, and ignore our costly past mistakes, along with theirs, we can expect Pakistan to enter the 18th century in what, maybe 70-80 years? Iranian citizens will be able to read the up and coming Thomas Payne without fear of being beaten by purity squads, in 2045?

@hillelslovak: Mate you are seriously ill informed. People cheered for the toppling of Saddam. He was an evil dictator who oppressed the Sunni Shia people. Sunnis Shia made up like 80% of Iraq and were oppressed. The problem was, that when the Sunnis Shia come to power, their government started to oppress the Shia's Sunnis.

We are done debating mate. Im getting tried of having to explain every single thing to you. Go study the history or something. Stop listening to propaganda or whatever it is your getting your info from.

No one is dictating these people. We arent forcing them to kill one another. You need to wake up and realize these people are very diverse and flat out hate on another.

Syria is the same situation. Assad dictates the majority and oppresses them. So they decided to attempt to overthrow him. They want the majority to rule, not the minority.

Sure terrorist are trying to hijack the revolution for their own personal gain. Its very complex, but with a little time, it starts to become clear.

That's fair, I like you and you're generally pretty chill so I was confused to say the least.

I wouldn't say I'm patriotic or nationalistic because that carries a connotation that one always agrees with their country whether rightly or wrongly. I, like most people whether they're Canadians or Americans, recognize the faults of our respective country and will speak honestly and candidly about it. Because I want the country to improve as much as possible. I'll only really make fun of someone if they blindly follow whatever their country is doing. Especially if they are my fellow Canadians.

But I'll definitely ham it up when it comes to the good parts lol as anyone should.

My entire point has flown right over your head, and you seem to think yourself noble or moral, or intelligent, by not grasping even a single facet of it.

@hillelslovak: No mate, you are trying to argue stuff i never argued.

What gets me about the pics I've seen of Syrian refugees is that so many of them are young, fighting-age men. Barely any women and children in the photographs, what you would expect to see a lot of when looking at images of "refugees". Looks more like an invasion force to me.

You've got that backwards. Saddam was a Sunni that oppressed the majority Shia, not the other way around.

@Wickerman777: O my bad, i might have confused them.

@TehFuneral: '

I don't think that Jordan would necessarily want that.

I do think that the wealthy Arab countries should do more to take in refugees however. Qatar is the richest country in the world in terms of ppp gdp per capita yet I don't believe they took even 1 refugee in.

You were not arguing my point because you do not grasp it.