Students Have No Moral Responsibility to Pay Back Federal Student Loans

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#151 Nibroc420

Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. Jagged3dge

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

And in doing so he's removing money from the local economy. That guy in India will spend his money in india, where as if your Dad had paid someone local to do it, that local person could then go to a local store and pass on the money to some other local guy. Keeping the money within the area. Less locals with money = less business for local stores.

10 years ago

Chrypt22

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#152 Chrypt22

Member since 2005 • 1387 Posts

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. Jagged3dge

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

I get what your saying about outsourcing, and that is certainly true to a degree. What I am saying is a company like Capital One for example... they will literally hire someone from X country, pay for their visa to live here in the US, just so they can have a person here to fill a perminant job. Its not that they are getting paid less, its just the company cannot find qualified people in the area to fill the need.

10 years ago

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#153 BluRayHiDef

Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. Jagged3dge

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

What your dad is doing should be illegal, because it is not in the best interest of the very country which allows him to be a capitalist businessman. Shame.

10 years ago

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#155 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. BluRayHiDef

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

What your dad is doing should be illegal, because it is not in the best interest of the very country which allows him to be a capitalist businessman. Shame.

It's entirely legal. And it's widespread. Get used to it, it's capitalism. It's called outsourcing work to dramatically increase profitability.

10 years ago

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#156 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. Jagged3dge

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

10 years ago

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#157 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. LJS9502_basic

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

It's capitalism. Profitability is the bottom line, unless you want to start paying 500 dollars for a pair of cheap shoes, work is going to be outsourced. Welcome to the world.

10 years ago

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#158 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.
My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.
chrisrooR

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

It's capitalism. Profitability is the bottom line, unless you want to start paying 500 dollars for a pair of cheap shoes, work is going to be outsourced. Welcome to the world.

Hyperbole much? Prior to removing tariffs and outsourcing.....I don't think anyone paid $500 for shoes.

10 years ago

HoolaHoopMan

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#159 HoolaHoopMan

Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

Yeeeaaaaa...no. If you take out student loans you should probably repay them.

10 years ago

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#160 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

It's capitalism. Profitability is the bottom line, unless you want to start paying 500 dollars for a pair of cheap shoes, work is going to be outsourced. Welcome to the world.

Hyperbole much? Prior to removing tariffs and outsourcing.....I don't think anyone paid $500 for shoes.

haha when, in the 1920's? Get real. Paying workers 7-9 dollars an hour for the same factory jobs that cost the company 10-20 cents per hour in other countries would inflate the price of goods by a ridiculous margin.

10 years ago

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#161 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"] It's capitalism. Profitability is the bottom line, unless you want to start paying 500 dollars for a pair of cheap shoes, work is going to be outsourced. Welcome to the world.

Hyperbole much? Prior to removing tariffs and outsourcing.....I don't think anyone paid $500 for shoes.

haha when, in the 1920's? Get real. Paying workers 7-9 dollars an hour for the same factory jobs that cost the company 10-20 cents per hour in other countries would inflate the price of goods by a ridiculous margin.

I guess the concept of supply and demand is foreign to you.....

10 years ago

kiteinthesky

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#162 kiteinthesky

Member since 2013 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Hyperbole much? Prior to removing tariffs and outsourcing.....I don't think anyone paid $500 for shoes.

haha when, in the 1920's? Get real. Paying workers 7-9 dollars an hour for the same factory jobs that cost the company 10-20 cents per hour in other countries would inflate the price of goods by a ridiculous margin.

I guess the concept of supply and demand is foreign to you.....

The issue is not an understanding of how capitalism works but the morality of outsourcing. Outsourcing a job to India where a worker will accept half as much pay as an American is very commonly done and is good business sense. This is truth. But the others are arguing from an ethical standpoint based on the argument that outsourcing is causing Americans to not be able to find work in their fields or survive, therefore one must hire as many Americans as possible to keep that from happening. And it is very unethical.

10 years ago

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#163 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="kiteinthesky"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"] haha when, in the 1920's? Get real. Paying workers 7-9 dollars an hour for the same factory jobs that cost the company 10-20 cents per hour in other countries would inflate the price of goods by a ridiculous margin.

I guess the concept of supply and demand is foreign to you.....

The issue is not an understanding of how capitalism works but the morality of outsourcing. Outsourcing a job to India where a worker will accept half as much pay as an American is very commonly done and is good business sense. This is truth. But the others are arguing from an ethical standpoint based on the argument that outsourcing is causing Americans to not be able to find work in their fields or survive, therefore one must hire as many Americans as possible to keep that from happening. And it is very unethical.

Okay. When have I defended outsourcing? It erodes the economy. So when only the poor and wealthy are left.....the wealthy will soon shoulder the burden of maintaining the country.

10 years ago

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#164 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kiteinthesky"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I guess the concept of supply and demand is foreign to you.....

The issue is not an understanding of how capitalism works but the morality of outsourcing. Outsourcing a job to India where a worker will accept half as much pay as an American is very commonly done and is good business sense. This is truth. But the others are arguing from an ethical standpoint based on the argument that outsourcing is causing Americans to not be able to find work in their fields or survive, therefore one must hire as many Americans as possible to keep that from happening. And it is very unethical.

Okay. When have I defended outsourcing? It erodes the economy. So when only the poor and wealthy are left.....the wealthy will soon shoulder the burden of maintaining the country.

Again, welcome to capitalism. I'm not saying it's a great system, but unless you're suggesting that consumers face the brunt of the extraordinary costs of goods when companies have to pay employees 100x what they're currently paying them, I don't really see how you can avoid this problem. And the wealthy already shoulder the burden of maintaining the country....as they should. Nobody should have a net worth of a billion dollars. It's just too much.

10 years ago

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#166 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kiteinthesky"] The issue is not an understanding of how capitalism works but the morality of outsourcing. Outsourcing a job to India where a worker will accept half as much pay as an American is very commonly done and is good business sense. This is truth. But the others are arguing from an ethical standpoint based on the argument that outsourcing is causing Americans to not be able to find work in their fields or survive, therefore one must hire as many Americans as possible to keep that from happening. And it is very unethical.

Okay. When have I defended outsourcing? It erodes the economy. So when only the poor and wealthy are left.....the wealthy will soon shoulder the burden of maintaining the country.

Again, welcome to capitalism. I'm not saying it's a great system, but unless you're suggesting that consumers face the brunt of the extraordinary costs of goods when companies have to pay employees 100x what they're currently paying them, I don't really see how you can avoid this problem. And the wealthy already shoulder the burden of maintaining the country....as they should. Nobody should have a net worth of a billion dollars. It's just too much.

No the middle class currently shoulder's the majority of the burden. And again.....supply and demand. Learn about it.

10 years ago

Master_Live

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#167 Master_Live

Member since 2004 • 20510 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Hyperbole much? Prior to removing tariffs and outsourcing.....I don't think anyone paid $500 for shoes.

haha when, in the 1920's? Get real. Paying workers 7-9 dollars an hour for the same factory jobs that cost the company 10-20 cents per hour in other countries would inflate the price of goods by a ridiculous margin.

I guess the concept of supply and demand is foreign to you.....

Well, at 500 bucks supply and demand will go f-themself. Some people would actually go bare foot from there on.

10 years ago

EagleEyedOne

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#168 EagleEyedOne

Member since 2013 • 1676 Posts

TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.

10 years ago

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#169 BluRayHiDef

Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.
EagleEyedOne

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.

10 years ago

EagleEyedOne

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#170 EagleEyedOne

Member since 2013 • 1676 Posts

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]
TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.
BluRayHiDef

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.

Any situation where a person or institution gives you money based on your credit or stage in life imposes a financial responsibility onto yourself. They gave you the money in order to be paid back and your failure to pay them back reflects your ill character.

10 years ago

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#171 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]
TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.
BluRayHiDef

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.

Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?

10 years ago

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#172 BluRayHiDef

Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]
[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]
TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.
LJS9502_basic

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.

Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?

If you were too young and naive to understand the seriousness of agreeing to do so, then yes, I think it's moral. A person's brain doesn't fully mature until their twenties; eighteen is too young to understand the significance of borrowing large sums of money.

10 years ago

applesxc47

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#173 applesxc47

Member since 2008 • 10761 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.
BluRayHiDef

Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?

If you were too young and naive to understand the seriousness of agreeing to do so, then yes, I think it's moral. A person's brain doesn't fully mature until their twenties; eighteen is too young to understand the significance of borrowing large sums of money.

I think the second part is true due to eighteen year olds having a lack of experience but I'd hardly say their brains aren't fully developed at that age.

10 years ago

WhiteKnight77

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#174 WhiteKnight77

Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?BluRayHiDef

If you were too young and naive to understand the seriousness of agreeing to do so, then yes, I think it's moral. A person's brain doesn't fully mature until their twenties; eighteen is too young to understand the significance of borrowing large sums of money.

Then you are too young to drink or vote at 18. Both require one to understand more than the significance of borrowing money and the need to pay it back.

10 years ago

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#175 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]
[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]
TC must have never had a car loan, mortgage, or credit card in order to make such an asinine thread.
LJS9502_basic

You seem to not understand that I specified moral responsibility, not financial responsibility.

Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?

I don't think it's moral to be a predatory lender and offer people free credit when they would otherwise be on the street. You might be giving people a way out, but it's also a way into a never ending cycle of minimum payments. Most money made with credit card companies comes from the people who have no alternative to taking on extra debt. And these companies also prey on people who have already been bankrupt, because they become completely unable to erase the debt. To act as if the credit companies are providing credit fairly isn't being realistic. You're acting like the people who borrow money are educated and can understand the system they're getting involved in.

10 years ago

WhiteKnight77

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#176 WhiteKnight77

Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Do you think it's moral to borrow something and never return it? Do you think it's moral to break your word?chrisrooR

I don't think it's moral to be a predatory lender and offer people free credit when they would otherwise be on the street. You might be giving people a way out, but it's also a way into a never ending cycle of minimum payments. Most money made with credit card companies comes from the people who have no alternative to taking on extra debt. And these companies also prey on people who have already been bankrupt, because they become completely unable to erase the debt. To act as if the credit companies are providing credit fairly isn't being realistic. You're acting like the people who borrow money are educated and can understand the system they're getting involved in.

Blame a past Congress for changing laws that kept banks and other credit institutions from lending money in any form to people who would have difficulties paying it back or could not pay it back at all.

10 years ago

the_bi99man

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#177 the_bi99man

Member since 2004 • 11465 Posts

Studends should be "morally responsible" to not take those loans in the first place. Yeah, they're terrible loans, which are bad for the people who get them, and have a bunch of extra conditions and whatnot that make them even worse than other loans, but nobody is forcing you to get one. To say that people shouldn't have to pay back their loans just because they were idiots and took out loans without reading the fine print, is asinine.

10 years ago

TacticalDesire

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#178 TacticalDesire

Member since 2010 • 10713 Posts

[QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
[QUOTE="Chrypt22"] Example: there is a very high demand for Database programmers / Administrators so much so that companies are in sourcing people TO the US from OTHER countries because there isn't enough graduates to fill the jobs. LJS9502_basic

That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.

My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

His dad is really nothing more than a product of the system we live in. If outsourcing is the most economically viable option, companies will do it. As Chris said, it really is capitalism.

10 years ago

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#180 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.
My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.
thegerg

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

I'd bet that you're no talking 1/2 your pay either. You take all of it, just like his dad, and just like the Asian guy his dad is paying. I guess you're part of the problem too.

It's a problem inherent in the DNA of capitalism. The bottom line comes before everything. Without revenue, a business can't survive. In the business world, you need to attract investors with large profit margins. One way to do that is to outsource the work that needs to be done. Welcome to the real world LJ.

10 years ago

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#181 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jagged3dge"]
That isn't exactly true. Companies would actually rather hire people to come from outside the U.S. so that they can pay them less. American employees are a lot more expensive.
My Dad, for example, needed a programmer for his new website. He's paying a guy over in India to do the job, because the American programmer is charging $30/hr while the guy in India is charging half of that.
thegerg

You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

I'd bet that you're no talking 1/2 your pay either. You take all of it, just like his dad, and just like the Asian guy his dad is paying. I guess you're part of the problem too.

I see the point is over your head. You seem to be confused. Next time read the posts more slowly.

10 years ago

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#182 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 178849 Posts

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.

I'd bet that you're no talking 1/2 your pay either. You take all of it, just like his dad, and just like the Asian guy his dad is paying. I guess you're part of the problem too.

It's a problem inherent in the DNA of capitalism. The bottom line comes before everything. Without revenue, a business can't survive. In the business world, you need to attract investors with large profit margins. One way to do that is to outsource the work that needs to be done. Welcome to the real world LJ.

You still haven't explained why you don't get the concept of supply and demand. Maybe you should step into the real world sometime....

10 years ago

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#183 BluRayHiDef

Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You dad is part of the problem then.....bet he's not taking half his pay.LJS9502_basic

I'd bet that you're no talking 1/2 your pay either. You take all of it, just like his dad, and just like the Asian guy his dad is paying. I guess you're part of the problem too.

I see the point is over your head. You seem to be confused. Next time read the posts more slowly.

:lol:

10 years ago

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#184 chrisrooR

Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="thegerg"] I'd bet that you're no talking 1/2 your pay either. You take all of it, just like his dad, and just like the Asian guy his dad is paying. I guess you're part of the problem too.

It's a problem inherent in the DNA of capitalism. The bottom line comes before everything. Without revenue, a business can't survive. In the business world, you need to attract investors with large profit margins. One way to do that is to outsource the work that needs to be done. Welcome to the real world LJ.

You still haven't explained why you don't get the concept of supply and demand. Maybe you should step into the real world sometime....

The demand for shoes would stay the same (assuming people continue to purchase shoes). The price for a company to bring their outsourced product, which is produced at 20 cents an hour, would increase by 40 times (by paying the American worker 8 dollars an hour). The price of shoes for that company would have to rise to support the additional labour costs to maintain previous profit margins to keep the investors happy. People would simply navigate around the shoes that cost 400-500 dollars, and opt for the competitors products which continue to be outsourced. Before you start lecturing people on supply and demand, perhaps you should point out the flaw in my argument and pinpoint it as opposed to declaring it's all wrong. Learn how to have an argument. Also, it's amazing how you consistently think you're arguments are so infallible. In every one of your posts you act like a teenage kid in a debate club. You're so high and mighty on these forums, yet when you start to lose an argument you back away and stop responding.

10 years ago

eggdog1234

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#185 eggdog1234

Member since 2007 • 831 Posts

Lenders do not lend from a moral position but rather a financial one. Paying back a loan is not a question of morality but rather of finances. If one chooses to not pay back a loan when they are financially able then morality begins to enter the picture. Conversely when money is lent when it is known that the debt cannot be paid back then morality has entered the picture. People believing that paying back a monetary debt is a moral responsibility is incredibly unethical imo.

10 years ago

Nibroc420