Francis Ford Coppola Thinks Marvel Movies Are 'Despicable'.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/francis-ford-coppola-defends-scorsese-calls-marvel-films-despicable-1248929

After Martin Scorsese received backlash for describing Marvel films as "not cinema," fellow director Francis Ford Coppola has come to his defense by offering his own take.

After being honored with the Prix Lumière on Friday, Coppola was quick to state that he thinks Scorsese is "right" in his stance on Marvel movies, according to the Agence France-Presse news agency and France 24.

"When Martin Scorsese says that the Marvel pictures are not cinema, he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration," said the legendary filmmaker. "I don't know that anyone gets anything out of seeing the same movie over and over again."

The 80-year-old Godfather director took it further by making his own jab: "Martin was kind when he said it's not cinema. He didn't say it's despicable, which I just say it is."

Coppola marks another high-profile industry figure to speak out after Scorsese's comments prompted outcries from Guardians of the Galaxy director James Gunn, Josh Whedon, Kevin Smith and more. Despite receiving criticism, Scorsese has stood by his comments, having also compared Marvel pics to "theme park films" invading theaters.

While speaking Oct. 13 at a press conference alongside Robert De Niro and Al Pacino ahead of The Irishman’s closing-night screening at the BFI London Film Festival, Scorsese reiterated his "not cinema" comment. "It's not cinema, it’s something else," he said. "We shouldn’t be invaded by it. We need cinemas to step up and show films that are narrative films."

The director also said during BAFTA's annual David Lean lecture: "Theaters have become amusement parks. That is all fine and good, but don’t invade everything else in that sense. That is fine and good for those who enjoy that type of film and, by the way, knowing what goes into them now, I admire what they do. It’s not my kind of thing, it simply is not. It’s creating another kind of audience that thinks cinema is that."

Scorsese's comments come after the world premiere of The Irishman, which is set to hit theaters Nov. 1 and arrive on Netflix on Nov. 27.

Just when you think things can't get any better: enter Francis Ford Coppola.

I don't know about despicable, wrong adjective in my opinion, but I'll take it.

So who's next OT? Spielberg? Tarantino (I know he is a huge comic book guy)? Fincher?

Put your bets down now, because this is about to get "this is just old guys lashing out at the new thing just like your grandpa didn't like the Rolling Stones" up in here.

Looking forward to the hot-takes on Twitter.

Dont care what they think honestly, I'll continue to enjoy comic book movies no matter what out of date directors think. They kinda sound like the old guys yelling at kids to get off their lawn.

Hilarious watching these old fossils whine because marvel makes better movies than them. We can talk about artistry and all that but at the end of the day marvel movies are fun and make me smile, same can't be said for the dumpster fire that was godfather.

I'd watch just about any marvel movie over any of their "masterpieces" any day.

When I complained about capeshit preventing better movies from being made, people told me plenty of other types of movies are still being made. But what about bigger, more expensive movies? Who knows if most of the big classics would be greenlit today? I can just see a young Coppola having his script for The Godfather tossed because it would cost 80 million dollars to make (not just because of inflation, but also because movies have far more expenses now), has a story that takes its time and isn't about men in spandex. I really believe some good scripts have been tossed in favor of more capeshit. I mean, look at Scorsese's The Irishman. He wanted it to be a worldwide theatrical release, but because people watch so much of this tripe now and studios don't want to fund such expensive movies if they're not dumb blockbusters, he had to go to Netflix.

:D

@uninspiredcup said:

Wait, what? Is this satire?

Despicable? Nah

Boring? Definately.

These superhero movies do nothing for me.

"When Martin Scorsese says that the Marvel pictures are not cinema, he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration," said the legendary filmmaker. "I don't know that anyone gets anything out of seeing the same movie over and over again."

Pretty sure that comic films do inspire people. His life must be pretty boring if he doesn't know what "fun" is.

Ahh now it is Francis Ford Coppola, another legendary director voicing his opinion on the Marvel movies.

I respect Coppola, he is responsible for some of the all-time greats, including The Conversation and Apocalypse now.

As much as I love these director's, they are basically stooping down to the level of a video game fanboy. They're hating on these movies because they aint their platform.

Who's next? Is Stanley Kubrick or Ingmar Bergman going to roll out of their graves to voice their opinions too?

Both of these director's have already voiced their opinions on Marvel movies.

Spielberg went on record saying "Marvel movies will go the way of the western."

And Tarantino goes on record saying he's actually a fan of the Marvel universe.

Quentin Tarantino is probably the most decent filmmaker of the bunch here. He resonates with oldschool film yet he does not shut-down modern cinema just because it's not his own niche when it comes to the types of films he makes.

Tarantino has shown his ability to objectively separate his own style from his own enjoyment among the works of others.

Decency is for tomorrow, today is for crapping on Marvel. It has to be killing these guys, specially the directors, that these icons of their childhood think their work is garbage. And the power relation is so asymmetrical, what is James Gunn going to do? Write a Twitter thesis on how The Godfather isn't as good a you think? lol.

It needed to be said and it was said. Thank you Scorsese and Coppola.

@Master_Live:

The Baby Boomers, all of whom are over 60 now, were the Youth Culture who were the fans and backbone of Marvel's success. Marvel was passed on to their kids. I was born the month Marvel distributed their first Silver Age comic (born late August 1961 for the Nov. 1961 printing of Fantastic Four 1 that started it all).

So. It isn't an old guy thing, at least Boomers or after. Tarrantino was from my generation (GenJones) so I'm not surprised he is a Marvel fan.

Just looked up Coppola and he was Silent Generation like my parents. They wouldn't care about Marvel. They were adults when Marvel started in Silver Age.

wer all millenials

gen x,y,z

The thing about Scorsese and Spielberg goes, is I don't think either of what they said about the Marvel movies were necessarily a bad thing.

Kevin Feige did the right thing and took what Spielberg said as a compliment, because Feige recognizes the western genre as a significant chapter of cinematic history, and for the superhero genre to "go the way of the western" insinuates the superhero will have a similar mark.

What Scorsese is talking about is Marvel movies are like theme park rides, roller coasters and so-forth. I don't think Scorsese is saying theme parks are a bad thing, in fact he's using it as a tone of reason why audiences find the Marvel movies so fun. Scorsese is somewhat critiquing and challenging these comic book movies to bring more depth to the table. Scorsese never outright says these are bad pieces in movies.

I think both of these director's own words have been misinterpreted by many bitter film enthusiasts that still have a tough time accepting what kind of mark the MCU has left in cinema.

Quentin Tarantino is the most open fan of these director's and he's also the youngest.

Coppola is being the most bitter of the bunch, and that might be because of his age. All I gotta say is he's made some of the greatest films ever, but he hasn't been relevant in decades so I don't know why else he's coming out with an opinion other than to be bitter.

Blah, blah, blah, old man is angry because he's not relevant to today's youth, blah, blah.

I will kind of agree with one thing he said, which is that theaters are amusement parks nowadays. Ticket prices have gone through the roof, and part of it is because theaters keep spending money to make all of their theaters 4K-3D-SURROUND SOUND!!! However, he needs to stop pointing fingers and start looking at who's actually responsible for this. For one, most independent theaters started going out of business a long time ago because Hollywood kept raising their rates in order to pay actors like Brad Pitt and Leo DiCaprio. If directors didn't want theaters to turn into amusement parks then maybe they should have spoken up when studios started gouging small theaters. Two, Hollywood started setting new film standards and demanding theaters make upgrades, otherwise they wouldn't allow them to carry their films. Again, blame the studios, not the audience. Three, plenty of theaters are still barely turning a profit because the films cost so much to carry. Not only do theaters need 4K-3D-SURROUND SOUND!!!, but they increasingly need comfy seating, premium concessions, and full service bars just to convince people to pony up the money for a ticket. If tickets costed less then more people might be willing to go out to see a Coppola-like film in theaters on a regular basis, but if the choice is between a two dollar rental at home and fifteen dollars in the theaters then it just doesn't make sense to go out anymore, not for a drama that isn't going to utilize the 4K-3D-SURROUND SOUND!!! at least. Maybe try lowering the price theaters pay for your films and you might actually get more people interested in going out and seeing your films in the theaters.

Do you need a wahmbulance?

love these dudes, telling it like it is.

Marvel movies are junk food at best

Comparing the Marvel movies to the classics of said director(s) is like comparing a BMW and a Trabant.

In forty years I doubt most people will remember who directed each Avenger film like an aficionado with Apocalypse Now or Casino. That doesn't mean the Marvel films aren't good films because they are decent for what they are but you can't realistically compare them with actual classics. Hell, if we can, lets add The Death of The Incredible Hulk to it as well.

Another day...…….another marvel fanboy meltdown.

@jaydan:

I love most of the Marvel movies and The Godfather is my fav movie all-time.....so I like everyone involved but again Coppola was an adult before Marvel's Silver Age started, so I'm thinking comics weren't part of his world.

Yeah, not really defending him, really I think you are right, it's an age thing with him. As an aside, I absolutely loved the first 2 Godfather movies and Apocalypse Now, but I heard too often that the latter was nothing like the Vietnam experience.

Have you seen The Conversation? It seldom is mentioned, but I think it's a masterpiece, up there with Godfather 1 and Apocalypse Now.

I agree, I always make a point to bring up The Conversation whenever I speak of Coppola. I think most people will find their way to The Godfather and to some lengths Apocalypse Now, but The Conversation must be reminded as one of his overlooked gems.

Yay, Ungrateful Old McB**ch Fart #2! :) He will never know the Oscar-worthy majesty that is the Hulk ass shot from Thor: Ragnarok. And other such pivotal moments in MCU

@Master_Live: In all seriousness tho Coppola is a skeletal, bingo playing f**k who thinks he knows everything.

Fun fact: Mario Puzzo, the original Godfather author, used to bully Stan Lee and the other original Marvel staff 'cause he operated a door away from them. Can't make this up.

from Jake Doyle on APnews.com

"Despite the recent media storm, the referendum on Marvel has been going on for a decade. As much as the comic-book company’s most slavish followers would like to believe otherwise, not everyone is a fan. The way Marvel movies are made, assembly-line style, is indeed a new evolution of the kind of studio control that has always played a role in Hollywood productions. It’s well known that directors are often approached for a Marvel film with a promise that the studio will take care of the action sequences, you just fill in the other bits."

(a year ago) After attempting to "catch-up" with the MCU on the insistance of friends, I've become completely disgusted by basically all superhero content. Marvel movies in particular, are 5 minutes of story and 2 hours of action, and they are all relatively the same "assembly line" production. Whether its Avengers, Guardians, whatever. Shallow af.

I will check it out, thanks!

I cannot say I particularly like the Marvel films. But sometimes, I am not in the mood for a serious meaningful movie and this is when easy to watch, action films with meaningless action and violence is kinda fun.

But each to their own, everyone has the right to voice an opinion.

@uninspiredcup: The CEO of Disney said that? Wow, we are fucked. No wonder we get so much tripe, with those standards.

Oh please, it's not like your favorite director's of old aren't morally sound or bankrupt over their own egos.

If these (losing) director's choose to start fire, expect the return. These director's have nothing going for themselves other than inching closer to retirement (and death from old age)

It's a shame such iconic filmmakers can't give piece of mind or advice to the young director's of today to help inspire the talent of tomorrow.

Instead they got to spite what younger generation calling what they do "despicable". It would be way more productive for a director like Coppola to be more responsible with his own words, but instead being a bitter old man might be a part of his legacy now.

I am going to be ironic and use a famous Marvel quote: "with great power comes great responsibility." Unfortunately Coppola is ESPECIALLY not his power and responsibility seriously.

When you guys think of it, the Disney company is only doing what they have always done: making mainstream movies. Have they ever not made movies for mainstream audiences? Why is everyone now mad at Disney?

Sure they have grown exponentially larger over the last few decades, but look at the bigger picture: what is Hollywood doing? Where is the competition? Are all of these other movie studios giving up? What do these visionary director's have to say? Why aren't they shaping Hollywood today? Are they sulking on the past?

At the end of the day, Disney is just doing what they've always done. I think the reality of anger for some of you and the state of current Hollywood, is all these other studios and visionaries have let you down and now there is an imbalance in the diversity of cinema.

Assembly line is a good way of describing it. It's like a production line in a factory. We've seen it with the MCU and also with Disney's ruination of the Star Wars franchise as well as else where. Pump out as many pictures as quickly as possible seems to be the train of thought. Normally things are adversely effected by acting hastily.

I mean, he kinda has a point. How many big budget corporate record breaking movies with almost exclusivity black characters, about African culture are there? Broke records as well showing it had an audience, and not just black people.

In that regard, they are, at least from what I can tell, breaking new ground. George Lucas himself complained about it and made Red Tails.

As a movie, taken on quality and not inclusivity though, Jesus Christ it's overrated, mental progressives with augmented reality goggles.

Uh, really? Watching through the films again, I'd say that most of them have maybe a half dozen fight scenes at most. Yeah, they have more action than say the Godfather, but they are ACTION movies. And for action movies, they have a surprisingly large amount of story. I mean, take Ant-Man and the Wasp. Most of that movie is taken up with character moments that explore the relationships between the characters and their past actions, followed by maybe three big fight scenes, followed by a lot of small comedy moments thrown in. Iron Man 3 spends most of the movie exploring one of the best portrayals of PTSD in film, all the while dealing with a plot where soldiers are used as human guinea pigs. There's a lot more story and subtext than you'd find in a typical action movie, say, Transformers. In fact, I've found most Marvel movies, outside of The Dark World, to be extremely deep when you take the time to think about them, their characters, and the real-life parallels that the writers are drawing on.

He's right

There are different genres of film and they are entitled to their opinions. Whining about it changes nothing. And while I like most comic book movies I'm not going to equate them to landmark cinema.

wonder what he thinks of his nephew's movies

Honestly imo all movies are entertainment. Copolla argues that his movies matter more because "You learn something from them". BS. You learn whatever message it is that the director wanted to deliver. And messages are everywhere. Even in comic book superhero movies. When you boil everything down to its most basic parts, nothing about "the classics" is really that much more fantastic than modern films, aside from maybe there was less CGI and more acting going on. It is still just entertainment.

Well... they kinda are, so.

I agree, I'm glad the kino makers are trying to get people to make good films again.

@dxmcat: Wow, Jake Doyle is absolutely clueless.

Modern cinema snob: Oh, superhero movies are killing cinema these days, they're all the same!

Scorcese makes his five gigillionth gangster movie starring Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci

Modern cinema snob: Oh, Scorcese had to go to Netflix to get his movie made, quelle horreur!

So he makes movies about Italian mob, but Coppala has to answer for their masculinity, and why cause some sawft "they" girl can't handle people being themselves.

I rather someone write their stories true to the people, than bend over for the dreaded SJW checklist.

Basically MCU is the theater version of what Saturday Morning cartoons. Make toys, and then the cartoon to sell them, aka make a bunch junk and build movies to sell the junk that will just end up in the middle of the ocean.

If you ask me, what MCU is doing is bad for society, what Coppola did as a movie maker, was make actual cinema for the love of cinema, not stuff Disney's stockholders pockets.

Lmao pretty much, these "film snobs" are something else.

The biggest pettiness I see out of some of them that post here is they act like those that have the ability to see the value in the MCU and modern cinema as if they know any less about cinema than they do. I happen to know a thing or two about cinema, as it's been a lifelong study of mine, and I've worked in the industry, something I bet the outspoken ones here can't live up to.

If anything some of the contents of this thread shows the opposite of intellectual reason among these snobs. I mean, just look at some of them in here trying to justify "cinema" as some sort of genre. LOL

My rule of the arts has always been this: great art comes from the past, present and future. Unfortunately some of the people here only hang out in the past, and that is extremely limiting and unappreciative over true craft of cinema.

No one here is asking anyone to enjoy Marvel movies - but attempting to de-merit its own slice of cinematic history is just pathetic.

Scorsese grew up in an Italian neighborhood. Storytellers draw from what they know. Rainer Werner Fassbinder once said that many famous directors make the same kinds of movies over and over. Hitchcock was obsessed with murder, Ozu with family, Fassbinder with the corruption and degeneracy in post-WWII Germany. Although... Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, After Hours, The King of Comedy, Cape Fear, Hugo, Shutter Island, Silence, The Wolf of Wall Street are gangster movies, am I right? I can only think of a few Scorsese gangster movies starring DeNiro.

;)

Good analogy.

Basically??

Marvel WAS a Saturday morning cartoon and a toy line well before the MCU came around. It's almost like there is....a correlation in this IP we're dealing with here.

You movie snobs are absolute geniuses and I think you guys are onto something in figuring out what the idea of the MCU is supposed to be.

well theres something to be said for movies that arent 90% in front of a green screen.