Francis Ford Coppola Thinks Marvel Movies Are 'Despicable'.

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dxmcat

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#51 dxmcat
Member since 2007 • 2828 Posts

I'm no scorcese fan, but marvel / superhero movies are shallow as ****. But hey, just like so many top selling video games.

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LJS9502_basic

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#52 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 167848 Posts

@jaydan said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@saltslasher said:

So he makes movies about Italian mob, but Coppala has to answer for their masculinity, and why cause some sawft "they" girl can't handle people being themselves.

I rather someone write their stories true to the people, than bend over for the dreaded SJW checklist.

Basically MCU is the theater version of what Saturday Morning cartoons. Make toys, and then the cartoon to sell them, aka make a bunch junk and build movies to sell the junk that will just end up in the middle of the ocean.

If you ask me, what MCU is doing is bad for society, what Coppola did as a movie maker, was make actual cinema for the love of cinema, not stuff Disney's stockholders pockets.

Good analogy.

Basically??

Marvel WAS a Saturday morning cartoon and a toy line well before the MCU came around. It's almost like there is....a correlation in this IP we're dealing with here.

You movie snobs are absolute geniuses and I think you guys are onto something in figuring out what the idea of the MCU is supposed to be.

Oh get over yourself. You don't get to make people have the same opinion as yourself.

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jaydan

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#53 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2675 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jaydan said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@saltslasher said:

So he makes movies about Italian mob, but Coppala has to answer for their masculinity, and why cause some sawft "they" girl can't handle people being themselves.

I rather someone write their stories true to the people, than bend over for the dreaded SJW checklist.

Basically MCU is the theater version of what Saturday Morning cartoons. Make toys, and then the cartoon to sell them, aka make a bunch junk and build movies to sell the junk that will just end up in the middle of the ocean.

If you ask me, what MCU is doing is bad for society, what Coppola did as a movie maker, was make actual cinema for the love of cinema, not stuff Disney's stockholders pockets.

Good analogy.

Basically??

Marvel WAS a Saturday morning cartoon and a toy line well before the MCU came around. It's almost like there is....a correlation in this IP we're dealing with here.

You movie snobs are absolute geniuses and I think you guys are onto something in figuring out what the idea of the MCU is supposed to be.

Oh get over yourself. You don't get to make people have the same opinion as yourself.

Oh I am unconcerned of you sharing my opinion as I have stated numerous times between this and the Scorsese thread. At this point I am just mocking you elitists over being so petty. You guys act like it is the end of the world cinema.

Also making false statements like calling cinema a genre is not an opinion - it is just incorrect.

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LJS9502_basic

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#54 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 167848 Posts

@dxmcat said:
@theone86 said:
@Ovirew said:

Honestly imo all movies are entertainment. Copolla argues that his movies matter more because "You learn something from them". BS. You learn whatever message it is that the director wanted to deliver. And messages are everywhere. Even in comic book superhero movies. When you boil everything down to its most basic parts, nothing about "the classics" is really that much more fantastic than modern films, aside from maybe there was less CGI and more acting going on. It is still just entertainment.

Modern cinema snob: Oh, superhero movies are killing cinema these days, they're all the same!

Scorcese makes his five gigillionth gangster movie starring Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci

Modern cinema snob: Oh, Scorcese had to go to Netflix to get his movie made, quelle horreur!

well theres something to be said for movies that arent 90% in front of a green screen.

With CGI.....

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jeezers

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#55 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3534 Posts

Im 27 and i agree, most marvel movies are borring, cheesey dialogue, theres a couple stand outs, logan and joker, I like these takes

deadpool, iron man, civil war were pretty good, but the hero movies are comming too fast, i cant keep up with all of them, nor do i care, because many of them suck, antman, ant and wasp, captain marvel, then you got DC putting out justice league.., suicide squad, we get joker movie.. of coarse we need a Harley quin movie in the same year.. I dont think a week goes by without a superhero movie in theaters.

About 1/4 of them are good, the rest are mainly wait for netflix and play it as background noise.

I am a big fan of Blade, the original is my favorite marvel movie.... So i will be checking that one out, doubt it will be as good without snipes tho.

Hot take: avengers movies are 🗑most overhyped of all time. No where near deserving the amount of praise. Its just a cicle jerk for the comic book fans, how many heroes and references can we cram into this movie, the story and writing is just baaaaaad tho.

Another hot take: man of steel is better than endgame.

Alot of these hero movies are flat and more about the CGI than acting, story, or dialouge. Im pretty sick of them, im done ranting. End of rant: You go old man, ill yell at the clouds with you!!! They dont hear us tho

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LJS9502_basic

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#56 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 167848 Posts

@jaydan said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh get over yourself. You don't get to make people have the same opinion as yourself.

Oh I am unconcerned of you sharing my opinion as I have stated numerous times between this and the Scorsese thread. At this point I am just mocking you elitists over being so petty. You guys act like it is the end of the world cinema.

Also making false statements like calling cinema a genre is not an opinion - it is just incorrect.

And you're acting like your opinion matters and you call others elitists? How ironic. The hypocrisy is huge.

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JustPlainLucas

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#57 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 79465 Posts

Meh. I'll never get the feeling from a Marvel film that I'll get from a Coppolla or Scorsese film. Not saying Marvel films aren't entertaining in their own right. They'll just never feel like classic films when they age.

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jaydan

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#58 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2675 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jaydan said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh get over yourself. You don't get to make people have the same opinion as yourself.

Oh I am unconcerned of you sharing my opinion as I have stated numerous times between this and the Scorsese thread. At this point I am just mocking you elitists over being so petty. You guys act like it is the end of the world cinema.

Also making false statements like calling cinema a genre is not an opinion - it is just incorrect.

And you're acting like your opinion matters and you call others elitists? How ironic. The hypocrisy is huge.

No. Facts are facts, and opinions don't change facts.

Some statements that have been made between this and the Scorsese thread that have been disguised as a matter of "opinion" are actually not opinions but ignorance on the matter.

In your opinion you do not like the MCU and I am not about to change that because that is your opinion, so stop putting made up shit on my plate. I must have said it at least 10 times now that I don't care about whether or not you like the MCU.

Cut the bullshit just because I'm telling you some facts are made out wrong on your end.

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Ovirew

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#59 Ovirew
Member since 2008 • 9205 Posts

I want to add that, I am not even a very big fan of superhero movies. I enjoy them for what they are. But then I don't really see where deeper films are so much better, just because they have some political or personal message in them. To me, I see all of it as entertainment, and I think it's a bit stuffed for these old directors to think that what they put out was so great and untouchable, and so far ahead of today's popular films.

I kind of keep using Joker as an example, ironically enough, of a popular movie being applauded because it has some message. I think Joaquin Phoenix was alright in it, and I think what made the movie for me was how he studied mental illness and applied it to the character. It had some good moments, it was good entertainment. But do I think it deserves to be labeled as the best movie of the year? Not one bit.

The movie I enjoyed most that I went to see this year, most people are polarized about, and the people who did like it can't seem to agree on what made it good. But I enjoyed it more than everything else I watched in 2019.

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LJS9502_basic

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#60 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@jaydan said:

No. Facts are facts, and opinions don't change facts.

Some statements that have been made between this and the Scorsese thread that have been disguised as a matter of "opinion" are actually not opinions but ignorance on the matter.

In your opinion you do not like the MCU and I am not about to change that because that is your opinion, so stop putting made up shit on my plate. I must have said it at least 10 times now that I don't care about whether or not you like the MCU.

Cut the bullshit just because I'm telling you some facts are made out wrong on your end.

No it's opinion. They are entitled to theirs.

And you either aren't reading posts correctly or you're not reading mine. I said I like the MCU movies. I've seen the all. I have some on Blu Ray. If you want to make points you need to at least pay attention to the discussion.

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jaydan

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#61  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2675 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jaydan said:

No. Facts are facts, and opinions don't change facts.

Some statements that have been made between this and the Scorsese thread that have been disguised as a matter of "opinion" are actually not opinions but ignorance on the matter.

In your opinion you do not like the MCU and I am not about to change that because that is your opinion, so stop putting made up shit on my plate. I must have said it at least 10 times now that I don't care about whether or not you like the MCU.

Cut the bullshit just because I'm telling you some facts are made out wrong on your end.

No it's opinion. They are entitled to theirs.

And you either aren't reading posts correctly or you're not reading mine. I said I like the MCU movies. I've seen the all. I have some on Blu Ray. If you want to make points you need to at least pay attention to the discussion.

That's because by this point we have already circled around the same arguments several times, and steadily my loss of interest in these threads prevail. I'm only responding back and forth at this point because we keep responding back and forth.

I am not singling you out but rather a group of individuals here. And you can like Marvel movies as much as you can dislike them, no problem from me.

My problem is over the course the several threads we've engaged in over this topic, is some false-facts are being hidden as an opinion.

In my opinion I can believe you are fat and lazy - but in reality the fact might actually be you are very fit because you go to the gym. See that? Making an opinion on a matter of fact does not change that fact. If in my opinion, you are fat - is not true - standing by my opinion is not a matter of opinion but ignorance.

With that said: cinema is not a genre. In your opinion, you can say it is one - but it is not. Just because you have an opinion does not change a fact.

Furthermore: there's great irony in the sense some of the 'elitists' here valuing their rights to having an opinion yet they take these director's words as if they're facts. No they're not.

Francis Ford Coppola saying Marvel movies are despicable is not a fact but his opinion. No matter how prolific this director might have been - that voice is still an opinion and he does not get to decide what is cinema and not. Coppola is entitled to an opinion no matter how bitter he is about it.

Same goes with Scorsese. I think his words have been misinterpreted. Saying the MCU is "not cinema" is a false statement. In his opinion he might not like the movies, but he also gave a false statement.

That's my biggest problem here, the confusion between fact and opinion.

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HEATHEN75

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#62 HEATHEN75
Member since 2018 • 898 Posts

@saltslasher said:

So he makes movies about Italian mob, but Coppala has to answer for their masculinity, and why cause some sawft "they" girl can't handle people being themselves.

I rather someone write their stories true to the people, than bend over for the dreaded SJW checklist.

Basically MCU is the theater version of what Saturday Morning cartoons. Make toys, and then the cartoon to sell them, aka make a bunch junk and build movies to sell the junk that will just end up in the middle of the ocean.

If you ask me, what MCU is doing is bad for society, what Coppola did as a movie maker, was make actual cinema for the love of cinema, not stuff Disney's stockholders pockets.

Please explain how the MCU is bad for society. I can see not liking the movies or even thinking they're total shit, but bad for society is just laughable.

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AFBrat77

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#64 AFBrat77
Member since 2004 • 26780 Posts

@heathen75:

Agreed, they aren't bad for society. For us long-time Marvel comic fans this has been great fun. It isn't Marvel's fault there aren't many good movies anymore outside the Marvel universe.

But I cannot speak too harshly about Coppola, his first 2 Godfather movies are indisputable masterpieces, in my Top 5 movies ever. He was just too old for Marvel comics even in 1961.

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sonicare

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#65 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 57006 Posts

@theone86 said:
@dxmcat said:

from Jake Doyle on APnews.com

"Despite the recent media storm, the referendum on Marvel has been going on for a decade. As much as the comic-book company’s most slavish followers would like to believe otherwise, not everyone is a fan. The way Marvel movies are made, assembly-line style, is indeed a new evolution of the kind of studio control that has always played a role in Hollywood productions. It’s well known that directors are often approached for a Marvel film with a promise that the studio will take care of the action sequences, you just fill in the other bits."

(a year ago) After attempting to "catch-up" with the MCU on the insistance of friends, I've become completely disgusted by basically all superhero content. Marvel movies in particular, are 5 minutes of story and 2 hours of action, and they are all relatively the same "assembly line" production. Whether its Avengers, Guardians, whatever. Shallow af.

Uh, really? Watching through the films again, I'd say that most of them have maybe a half dozen fight scenes at most. Yeah, they have more action than say the Godfather, but they are ACTION movies. And for action movies, they have a surprisingly large amount of story. I mean, take Ant-Man and the Wasp. Most of that movie is taken up with character moments that explore the relationships between the characters and their past actions, followed by maybe three big fight scenes, followed by a lot of small comedy moments thrown in. Iron Man 3 spends most of the movie exploring one of the best portrayals of PTSD in film, all the while dealing with a plot where soldiers are used as human guinea pigs. There's a lot more story and subtext than you'd find in a typical action movie, say, Transformers. In fact, I've found most Marvel movies, outside of The Dark World, to be extremely deep when you take the time to think about them, their characters, and the real-life parallels that the writers are drawing on.

I agree with you. Some of them are very action oriented and less story driven, but others do have some interesting areas of character development or story telling. Take Logan, I thought that delved deeply into the characters and dealt with some impressive conflicts. The characters had superpowers, but they were very human in their faults and it was a thoughtful juxtaposition of the two. Professor X suffering from alzheimer's disease was pretty powerful stuff. Logan's entire arc in that movie was captivating.

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theone86

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#67 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22500 Posts

@sonicare said:
@theone86 said:
@dxmcat said:

from Jake Doyle on APnews.com

"Despite the recent media storm, the referendum on Marvel has been going on for a decade. As much as the comic-book company’s most slavish followers would like to believe otherwise, not everyone is a fan. The way Marvel movies are made, assembly-line style, is indeed a new evolution of the kind of studio control that has always played a role in Hollywood productions. It’s well known that directors are often approached for a Marvel film with a promise that the studio will take care of the action sequences, you just fill in the other bits."

(a year ago) After attempting to "catch-up" with the MCU on the insistance of friends, I've become completely disgusted by basically all superhero content. Marvel movies in particular, are 5 minutes of story and 2 hours of action, and they are all relatively the same "assembly line" production. Whether its Avengers, Guardians, whatever. Shallow af.

Uh, really? Watching through the films again, I'd say that most of them have maybe a half dozen fight scenes at most. Yeah, they have more action than say the Godfather, but they are ACTION movies. And for action movies, they have a surprisingly large amount of story. I mean, take Ant-Man and the Wasp. Most of that movie is taken up with character moments that explore the relationships between the characters and their past actions, followed by maybe three big fight scenes, followed by a lot of small comedy moments thrown in. Iron Man 3 spends most of the movie exploring one of the best portrayals of PTSD in film, all the while dealing with a plot where soldiers are used as human guinea pigs. There's a lot more story and subtext than you'd find in a typical action movie, say, Transformers. In fact, I've found most Marvel movies, outside of The Dark World, to be extremely deep when you take the time to think about them, their characters, and the real-life parallels that the writers are drawing on.

I agree with you. Some of them are very action oriented and less story driven, but others do have some interesting areas of character development or story telling. Take Logan, I thought that delved deeply into the characters and dealt with some impressive conflicts. The characters had superpowers, but they were very human in their faults and it was a thoughtful juxtaposition of the two. Professor X suffering from alzheimer's disease was pretty powerful stuff. Logan's entire arc in that movie was captivating.

To be fair, they do seem to be focusing on the MCU in particular and not superhero movies in general. I haven't heard either of them joining in on, say, the anti-Joker backlash. And I think there might be a more valid criticism there, that where other superhero movies can play with genres like Logan and Joker did, the MCU pretty much mandates their films be action ones. Now, one thing I like about the MCU is how they manage to fit other genres like political thriller (Winter Soldier), heist (Ant-Man), and buddy comedy (Ragnarok) into the action movie formula, but I can still see how if you don't want to make a typical action movie you wouldn't like the MCU. Joker, for instance, would probably never fly in the MCU. I do think it's interesting, though, that they never spoke up like this when Logan was tearing up the box office, or when the Dark Knight trilogy was all the rage, or when Avatar was killing it at the box office, or when Return of the King won best picture. In fact, most of the highest grossing movies since 2000 have been sci-fi or fantasy action movies, but it's only Marvel movies that are destroying cinema as we know it?

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HEATHEN75

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#68 HEATHEN75
Member since 2018 • 898 Posts

@AFBrat77 said:

@heathen75:

Agreed, they aren't bad for society. For us long-time Marvel comic fans this has been great fun. It isn't Marvel's fault there aren't many good movies anymore outside the Marvel universe.

But I cannot speak too harshly about Coppola, his first 2 Godfather movies are indisputable masterpieces, in my Top 5 movies ever. He was just too old for Marvel comics even in 1961.

That's my childhood they're putting on those screens. I feel like 12 year old Heathen again when I watch Marvel movies.

If these guys need someone to blame for their movies not doing as well anymore, they need to take it up with the theaters. If it wasn't for Marvel movies, I wouldn't even bother with theaters anymore but my son likes the theater experience and I like the day out with my son. For the price of 2 movie tickets you could own the blu-ray. Not to mention the other $40 you save on their overpriced snacks. Most people look at a trip to the movies as a family day out now. Marvel movies are perfect for a family day. Gangster movies, not so much. I honestly look forward to the demise of theaters. Let all movies stream or go straight to home disc.

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Emersoncole88

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#69 Emersoncole88
Member since 2019 • 7 Posts

There is a reason Marvel films are popular. Art is subjective. I enjoy comic books and publish my own. https://mobile.twitter.com/emersoncole8

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Lonelynight

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#70 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30053 Posts

He's a hack, who cares what he thinks?

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brimmul777

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#71 brimmul777
Member since 2011 • 4200 Posts

Just a question,what has FFC done himself lately???? It really is a serious question,I know nothing about modern day movies. I pretty much stopped watching movies/tv years before.

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livingdeadman

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#73 livingdeadman
Member since 2016 • 385 Posts

Both filmmakers offer insight and enlightenment in their movies. There shouldn't be hostility between any of them if they would've remembered that quote by Uncle Ben.

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#74 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 1978 Posts

@brimmul777 said:

Just a question,what has FFC done himself lately???? It really is a serious question,I know nothing about modern day movies. I pretty much stopped watching movies/tv years before.

Nothing. He's semi-retired, eighty years old. But he's been talking some years about Megalopolis, some kind of epic.