Did we really go to the Moon?

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kingunderground

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#1 kingunderground
Member since 2010 • 68 Posts
I've always believed that man went to the moon, but after watching a documentary on it's conspiracy, I'm 50/50. I mean, how did the flag wave without air? And how come there are no stars visible in the film footage? And this was back in 1969...so how come 40 years later, noone else has gone to the moon? These are just questions, and if you can answer them, then that would be helpful
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weezyfb

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#2 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
there have been subsequent voyages
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J-Man725

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#3 J-Man725
Member since 2006 • 6786 Posts

I believe I heard something about NASA hoping to send another manned mission within the next decade.

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nimatoad2000

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#4 nimatoad2000
Member since 2004 • 7505 Posts
think about it. the US and russia was in a huge space war. if there was even a spec of suspicion that the US fabricated the moon landing, wouldn't you think russia would have done years upon years of research? i'm sure if it was fake, russia would have shown some evidence by now, they would not just loose like that. there are no stars in the moon footage because the light from earth is too bright, thus a longer exposure would be needed to show stars, and if they did that the light from earth would make the picture too bright anyways.
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Tannerr33

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#5 Tannerr33
Member since 2004 • 896 Posts

Go watch mythbusters. They busted this.

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Chogyam

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#6 Chogyam
Member since 2003 • 1887 Posts

beleive what you will. Nobody knows untill we get some pictures of the landing sites and photomap the moon. You can't miss the crap that was left up there.

I'm not to sure why this has not been done....

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Chogyam

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#7 Chogyam
Member since 2003 • 1887 Posts

Go watch mythbusters. They busted this.

Tannerr33
seriously though, we can take pictures of the mars rover ON MARS and peer deep into space, but we can't look at the landing sites on the moon???????. ---I beleive we did land though
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BumFluff122

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#8 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

The flag waved without air because that is what the astronaut did for get a better picture. If you put the flag up it will stay up because there is very little gravity. There were no stars in the picture because it is very bright on the moon. In order to allow us to view everything they needed to turn the aperture, or something, down to allow us to view the landscape.

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St_JimmyX

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#9 St_JimmyX
Member since 2006 • 3061 Posts

beleive what you will. Nobody knows untill we get some pictures of the landing sites and photomap the moon. You can't miss the crap that was left up there.

I'm not to sure why this has not been done....

Chogyam

Is this enough proof for you?

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MrGeezer

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#10 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

beleive what you will. Nobody knows untill we get some pictures of the landing sites and photomap the moon. You can't miss the crap that was left up there.

I'm not to sure why this has not been done....

Chogyam
There are actually reflectors left on the moon by the astronauts. Astronemers on earth can actually shine a laser at this reflector and count how long it takes for the beam to bounce back. Proof was LEFT on the moon, and this proof is visible from Earth.
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Chogyam

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#11 Chogyam
Member since 2003 • 1887 Posts

to the both of you. I beleive we landed on the moon. Just why take a big ass telescope in an observatory and shoot a laser through it. Just look through the damn thing lol.

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GTA_dude

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#12 GTA_dude
Member since 2004 • 18358 Posts
I'm pretty sure we landed on it.... As for the stars, you got to remember the picture was took with a 40 year old camera, resolution wasn't that great on those things. Haven't you ever looked at 40 year old pictures? Even on earth they looked horrible. You cant expect them to be in HD quality.... And the flag was being held up with a brace across the top, to make it straight, as for it waving, I dont know what your talking about. I never paid attention to it, but from what I remember I looked as if it was just a piece of cardboard with the flag painted on it.
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MrGeezer

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#13 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

The flag waved without air because that is what the astronaut did for get a better picture. If you put the flag up it will stay up because there is very little gravity.

BumFluff122

Actually, this is incorrect. Sure, there is less gravity on the moon than on Earth. But everything with mass exerts a gravitastional attraction. And the moon (as small as it is) is still pretty darn massive. In fact, you can see the astronauts jumping all around. And yet, they didn't fly off into space. They fell right back down to the moon's surface.

The REAL reason why the flag was "waving" is because NASA knew that the flag wouldn't stay aloft in the absence of wind. So they built a retractable metal pole into the flag post. This pole extended out horizontally. But it got stuck, and the astronauts weren't able to extend it all the way. This caused the flag to be rippled. Then, the astronauts twisted the post back and forth in order to place it in the ground. this back-and-forth motion, along with the rippled appearance of the flag, led to the illusion that the flag was waving as one does on Earth.

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BumFluff122

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#14 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

Actually, this is incorrect. Sure, there is less gravity on the moon than on Earth. But everything with mass exerts a gravitastional attraction. And the moon (as small as it is) is still pretty darn massive. In fact, you can see the astronauts jumping all around. And yet, they didn't fly off into space. They fell right back down to the moon's surface.

The REAL reason why the flag was "waving" is because NASA knew that the flag wouldn't stay aloft in the absence of wind. So they built a retractable metal pole into the flag post. This pole extended out horizontally. But it got stuck, and the astronauts weren't able to extend it all the way. This caused the flag to be rippled. Then, the astronauts twisted the post back and forth in order to place it in the ground. this back-and-forth motion, along with the rippled appearance of the flag, led to the illusion that the flag was waving as one does on Earth.

MrGeezer

That was basically what I meant. The actions of the stronauts caused the flag to have a rippled look. They mean tto do that. And as the gravitational effects on the moon aren't anywhere near that on Earth the flag stayed in the position long enough to take a picture of it. I wasn't aware of the retractable metal pole though.

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Dark__Link

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#15 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts
1. The flag waved only after being planted/touched. Same would happen in an atmosphere, but the air would instantly dampen any of the flag's vibrations. With no air to act as a damper, the flag is free to vibrate and move. To make that more clear, a tuning fork eventually stops vibrating, right? In space, it would take far longer, because there would be no friction losses (from the air acting as a damper), only heat losses. 2. The stars can't be seen because of all the spotlights. When you light up the area so brightly (so they could see around, obviously), you create local light pollution. Ever try looking up at the stars in a city? Same thing. 3. We haven't gone back because the space race was huge back then. Everyone cared about it. NASA was huge. Now it has significantly reduced budgeting and can't really do much. Plus, once you've been up there, what's the point of going back? The only reason we did it was to flex our technological might to the USSR and the rest of the world. We are going back though. Look up the Constellation program.
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Chogyam

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#16 Chogyam
Member since 2003 • 1887 Posts

cool. I guess they did take pictures last year. LRO

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MrGeezer

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#17 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]I'm pretty sure we landed on it.... As for the stars, you got to remember the picture was took with a 40 year old camera, resolution wasn't that great on those things. Haven't you ever looked at 40 year old pictures? Even on earth they looked horrible. You cant expect them to be in HD quality.... And the flag was being held up with a brace across the top, to make it straight, as for it waving, I dont know what your talking about. I never paid attention to it, but from what I remember I looked as if it was just a piece of cardboard with the flag painted on it.

Also has nothing to do with resolution. As modern as we like to think of our cameras as being, chances are that your digital camera doesn't match the quality of good old fashioned 80 year old film. Most of today's digital cameras don't match the "resolution" old film stock, and certainly doesn't match the tonal range of old film stock. That's what we're really talking about, tonal range. NO camera has the same degree of tonal range as the human eye, and older cameras were actually BETTER about having more tonal range since they necessarily used film (which is better than digital sensors in this category). Don't believe me, then test it. Take your modern digital camera and set up some test pics. Now dust off your old 35 mm film camera and try the same thing. I'm betting that you film camera preserves more detail in both the highlights and the shadows. Even so, no camera matches the human eye. YOU can see the stars and the foreground at the same time. But cameras CAN'T. They can't selectively adjust exposure for a selected part of the total field of view. It's all or none. Adjusting exposure adjusts exposure for the ENTIRE field of view. If one part of the FOV is too dark and another part is too bright, then too bad. You're ****ed. So you've just got to decide on which part of the scene is most important. You then expose for THAT part of the scene, and unfortunately the other parts of the scene get lost. But it's not really a matter of resolution. It's about tonal range. This is apparent to anyone who's ever taken a flash-lit snapshot of their friends in a dark room. You get super-bright faces in front of a sea of black.
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mrbojangles25

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#18 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58318 Posts

I've always believed that man went to the moon, but after watching a documentary on it's conspiracy, I'm 50/50.

1. I mean, how did the flag wave without air?

2. And how come there are no stars visible in the film footage?

3. And this was back in 1969...so how come 40 years later, noone else has gone to the moon?

These are just questions, and if you can answer them, then that would be helpfulkingunderground

1. THe flag moved because of inertia (? some physical force...inertia? Centrifugal force? you know what I mean). Imagine youre in a pool, and you have a sheet of something with neutral boyancy. If you move it, and then stop, its going to continue moving until eventually it stops. Same deal with the flag. When you plant it, there are relatively zero forces acting on it so whatever motions you put it through our going to continue for a while. I am sure someone who was a recent or current student could explain it better.

2. Dunno, but I am sure there is a reasonable explanation. Again, I am sure someone versed in film and photography could explain it better, but I imagine in a place exposed to so much light, the cameras would have some sort of filter put on to A.) only pick up things in a short distance, or B.) only be tolerant of high-light objects (like the moons surface, space suits...distant stars would be faint-light).

3. My guess is that it costs too much. Not to mention the entire thing was a Cold War publciity stunt; I am not trying to belittle the achievements of the Apollo missions, they were very great, but ultimately they proved pointless except for some moon rocks (which you can buy on ebay).

These are just my thoughts on the subject. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable in the matter can correct or reinforce what I said.

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MrGeezer

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#19 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
We haven't gone back because the space race was huge back then. Everyone cared about it. NASA was huge. Now it has significantly reduced budgeting and can't really do much. Plus, once you've been up there, what's the point of going back? The only reason we did it was to flex our technological might to the USSR and the rest of the world. We are going back though. Look up the Constellation program.Dark__Link
Plus, technology has advanced enough to send UNMANNED ROBOTS out to do a lot of the exploring for us. People can say that we haven't "been to the moon" since the Apollo program was scrapped. But that's a biased way of looking at things. Hell, just this year, didn't we send a robot out to freaking BOMB THE MOON? And never mind all those live video feeds from the surface of MARS, which some of the moon landing conspiracy theorists surely must remember. Were the Mars rovers a hoax too? Were the Voyagers a hoax? Were Cassini and Huygens hoaxes? Was the NEAR project a hoax? These days, we have the luxury of sending robots out to do a lot of our exploring, so that we don't have to put people in harm's way. Robots also don't get tired, don't get stressed out or crazy, don't lose their concentration, and don't get hungry or thirsty. And that can be a big advantage.
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GTA_dude

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#20 GTA_dude
Member since 2004 • 18358 Posts
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="GTA_dude"]I'm pretty sure we landed on it.... As for the stars, you got to remember the picture was took with a 40 year old camera, resolution wasn't that great on those things. Haven't you ever looked at 40 year old pictures? Even on earth they looked horrible. You cant expect them to be in HD quality.... And the flag was being held up with a brace across the top, to make it straight, as for it waving, I dont know what your talking about. I never paid attention to it, but from what I remember I looked as if it was just a piece of cardboard with the flag painted on it.

Also has nothing to do with resolution. As modern as we like to think of our cameras as being, chances are that your digital camera doesn't match the quality of good old fashioned 80 year old film. Most of today's digital cameras don't match the "resolution" old film stock, and certainly doesn't match the tonal range of old film stock. That's what we're really talking about, tonal range. NO camera has the same degree of tonal range as the human eye, and older cameras were actually BETTER about having more tonal range since they necessarily used film (which is better than digital sensors in this category). Don't believe me, then test it. Take your modern digital camera and set up some test pics. Now dust off your old 35 mm film camera and try the same thing. I'm betting that you film camera preserves more detail in both the highlights and the shadows. Even so, no camera matches the human eye. YOU can see the stars and the foreground at the same time. But cameras CAN'T. They can't selectively adjust exposure for a selected part of the total field of view. It's all or none. Adjusting exposure adjusts exposure for the ENTIRE field of view. If one part of the FOV is too dark and another part is too bright, then too bad. You're ****ed. So you've just got to decide on which part of the scene is most important. You then expose for THAT part of the scene, and unfortunately the other parts of the scene get lost. But it's not really a matter of resolution. It's about tonal range. This is apparent to anyone who's ever taken a flash-lit snapshot of their friends in a dark room. You get super-bright faces in front of a sea of black.

I'm going to say you googled that, since it took you 15 minutes to make that post from your last one, and I was the post right above it. And yeah, I know film cameras are better then digital, I learned that 5 years ago back in photo. But I've also seen alot of 40 year old pics, and the color and light exposure is different then current film, color film was also new at the time. Basically what I was saying was I dont think a 40 year old camera would pick up the stars, because they are way too far away and way too small, even though there was alot, there was still more black. I dont even think if you took a bran new disposable film camera on the moon and took a picture of your friend, it would show the stars. But if you took a bran new million dollar NASA camera on there, yeah it probably would by now. As for the Tonal Range, I thought that was the range of grays between white and black in the picture? I learned about this when we were working with filters to adjust the shades of gray, to add more or reduce, adjusting the contrast....because they took color pictures I just dont see what that has to do with anything here....I forgot the term for the example you said in the last paragraph. Although it does explain the no stars on the moon, it wasn't the tonal range
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mrbojangles25

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#21 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58318 Posts

idunno, the pics taken with any ol' disposable look better than any I've seen with your average digital camera. Thats all I gotta say about that

*note: this is in printed form, mind you

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jpph

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#22 jpph
Member since 2005 • 3337 Posts

yes, we did.

as someone wisely said, russia would have proved it otherwise.

the thing about the flag waving? well i have no idea, but i do know, that if it was a fake, a mistake like that wouldnt have been made.

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Lto_thaG

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#23 Lto_thaG
Member since 2006 • 22611 Posts

I believe I heard something about NASA hoping to send another manned mission within the next decade.

J-Man725
Christ...I will be dead before we'll discover something cool. The moon >_>
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Snipes_2

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#24 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

Yup, We landed. They saw, they went, they claimed it as our own :P

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Lto_thaG

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#25 Lto_thaG
Member since 2006 • 22611 Posts

Yup, We landed. They saw, they went, they claimed it as our own :P

Snipes_2
I think Depp owns a piece of land on the moon.I could be wrong though.
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MattUD1

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#26 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
1) Flag "waved"... no it didn't. Plant something metal (like a pole with an edge to break the dirt) in the ground and do it fast. Notice how it rocks back and forth? Same thing. 2) No stars... Any photographer could tell you exactly why this is such. Something to do with exposure times and lighting sources. 3) No one has gone back because it's too costly.
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Snipes_2

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#27 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Yup, We landed. They saw, they went, they claimed it as our own :P

Lto_thaG

I think Depp owns a piece of land on the moon.I could be wrong though.

Are you serious :o?

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Lto_thaG

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#28 Lto_thaG
Member since 2006 • 22611 Posts

[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Yup, We landed. They saw, they went, they claimed it as our own :P

Snipes_2

I think Depp owns a piece of land on the moon.I could be wrong though.

Are you serious :o?

Well,I'm not sure.
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MissLibrarian

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#29 MissLibrarian
Member since 2008 • 9589 Posts

Yes man did go to the moon. I too went through a sceptical phase when I was younger, but when studying at University I realised that it is one of, if not *the* most contemporary-sourced event in history. Theres bits of paper for every single thing they did, explaining exactly how they did it.

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gubrushadow

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#30 gubrushadow
Member since 2009 • 2735 Posts
people are stupid , the flag was affected by wind , what wind is there on moon ??
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BiancaDK

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#31 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts
people are stupid , the flag was affected by wind , what wind is there on moon ??gubrushadow
Then please enlighten us, as to why the already given reasons as to why one would get the impression that the flag is waving due to force of wind, would be fallacious then.
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deathtarget04

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#32 deathtarget04
Member since 2009 • 2266 Posts

I dont know.

I mean i read the whole flag thing, the no stars theory and other things.

But to me people are just grasping at straws. But what really gets to me, is why Neil armstrong hasnt really said anything about the whole thing. He doesnt do any public speaking, concerning the matter.

I mean wouldnt any of you? He was the first man on the moon and you would think he would atleast say something.

Here's a video of him actually talking about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUx1SURbb3g

Very weird i must say.

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DigitalExile

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#33 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

Here's the way I look at it:

If we went to the moon: big whoop. What did it achieve? Nothing.

If we didn't go to the moon then what do we have? Nothing.

Same big whoop, same out come. Get over it.

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BiancaDK

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#34 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts
Very weird i must say.deathtarget04
Very weird would be NASA being able to fabricate such an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that they went to the moon, with each segment of evidence supported by literally thousands of pages of solid, observed and validated science, but with this knowledge of how to feasibly get there; not doing so -- and instead, despite having at the time endless funding from the government, opt for sharing fairy tales with the known world, and this fairy tale not being proven to be false to this day by the international scientific community.
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pete_merlin

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#35 pete_merlin
Member since 2007 • 6098 Posts

Go watch mythbusters. They busted this.

Tannerr33
This
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Theokhoth

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#36 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

Yes, multiple times. The flag didn't wave; the motion of the flag while he was holding it made it look like it was waving. Stars weren't visible from the moon because it was daytime on the Moon; go outside and tell me how many stars you can see during the daytime.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#37 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

We didn't go to the moon just once, we went a few times. Whenever you have some event that is hard to believe, there will always be conspiracy theorists denying that it took place - 9/11, the Holocaust , the moonl landing, etc. Some of these events are just so amazing and some are so terrifying that people just dont want to believe them. So they ignore all evidence and create their own realities to explain them away.

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cpo335

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#38 cpo335
Member since 2002 • 5463 Posts
[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I think Depp owns a piece of land on the moon.I could be wrong though.Lto_thaG

Are you serious :o?

Well,I'm not sure.

No he doesn't. There is an internatioanlly accepted law stating that one, including countries, cannot claim territory on the moon as their own. You cannot own land on the moon no matter what.
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DigitalExile

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#39 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

No he doesn't. There is an internatioanlly accepted law stating that one, including countries, cannot claim territory on the moon as their own. You cannot own land on the moon no matter what.cpo335
It's a common misconception. Now, let me think about this... It's not actually the land itself they own--yes, people do have ownership of some aspect of the moon--but rather... the uh... space, or something, above a certain area? I'm not sure that's it and typing it now seems so wrong. All I know is that you're both right and wrong.

People do own peices of the moon, just not the "land".

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cpo335

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#40 cpo335
Member since 2002 • 5463 Posts

[QUOTE="cpo335"]No he doesn't. There is an internatioanlly accepted law stating that one, including countries, cannot claim territory on the moon as their own. You cannot own land on the moon no matter what.DigitalExile

It's a common misconception. Now, let me think about this... It's not actually the land itself they own--yes, people do have ownership of some aspect of the moon--but rather... the uh... space, or something, above a certain area? I'm not sure that's it and typing it now seems so wrong. All I know is that you're both right and wrong.

People do own peices of the moon, just not the "land".

No, you're wrong. See the 1967 United Nations Outer Space Treaty.

See: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090720-apollo-11-who-owns-moon.html(specifically "The moon is unclaimable under the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which has so far been ratified by 100 UN member countries, including the United States.")

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DigitalExile

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#41 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="cpo335"]No he doesn't. There is an internatioanlly accepted law stating that one, including countries, cannot claim territory on the moon as their own. You cannot own land on the moon no matter what.cpo335

It's a common misconception. Now, let me think about this... It's not actually the land itself they own--yes, people do have ownership of some aspect of the moon--but rather... the uh... space, or something, above a certain area? I'm not sure that's it and typing it now seems so wrong. All I know is that you're both right and wrong.

People do own peices of the moon, just not the "land".

No, you're wrong. See the 1967 United Nations Outer Space Treaty.

See: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090720-apollo-11-who-owns-moon.html(specifically "The moon is unclaimable under the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which has so far been ratified by 100 UN member countries, including the United States.")

Well, for all I know what I was talking about I heard in a dream so I was talking out of my ass anyway. :lol: I can't be bothered with the links so I'll take your word for it.

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BiancaDK

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#42 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts

Well, for all I know what I was talking about I heard in a dream so I was talking out of my ass anyway. :lol: I can't be bothered with the links so I'll take your word for it.DigitalExile

I saw a documentary themed around an american guy that made it his business selling small lunar territories of land to people, 5-10years ago

maybe that´s where you got it from

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DigitalExile

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#43 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]Well, for all I know what I was talking about I heard in a dream so I was talking out of my ass anyway. :lol: I can't be bothered with the links so I'll take your word for it.BiancaDK

I saw a documentary themed around an american guy that made it his business selling small lunar territories of land to people, 5-10years ago

maybe that´s where you got it from

No. I remember it was about Michael Jackson owning land on the moon... Still, I think what it was was the "surface" (as in the imaginary surface area) and not the actual land. It's like saying you own the surface area of Lot 47 in your street, but you can't do anything with it because you don't own the dirt or the grass or the ground, just the imaginary air around (on) it.

So in other words, you can claim an area and pay for it, but all you can do with it is say "Hey, look. I own part of the moon," so that even if you had a spaceship you couldn't legally put anything in that space. Which makes me wonder just who sells these plots...

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Brainkiller05

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#44 Brainkiller05
Member since 2005 • 28954 Posts
A lot of the stuff can be explained but the stuff like faking the earth shot with the piece of wood in the window when they should have been almost landing on the moon stuff just doesn't add up.
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CyleM

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#45 CyleM
Member since 2004 • 2546 Posts
yes they have
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Crimsader

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#46 Crimsader
Member since 2008 • 11672 Posts

No, everything was a montage...

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hyrueprince11

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#47 hyrueprince11
Member since 2005 • 5722 Posts

we did, the mythbusters proved it

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jetpower3

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#48 jetpower3
Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

Documentaries are a dime a dozen, especially for conspiracy theories:

Pearl Harbor

JFK

Moon Landing

WTC Bombing 1

Oklahoma City

9/11

Afghanistan (Oil / Natural Gas Pipeline)

Illumati / NWO

2012

That's just some of the more contemporary American ones. I bet there's thousands of them, in all different shapes and sizes, for thousands of years.

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hyrueprince11

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#49 hyrueprince11
Member since 2005 • 5722 Posts

I believe I heard something about NASA hoping to send another manned mission within the next decade.

J-Man725

yeah, that´s what they are planninng, they also want to send a manned misssion to mars

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fofal

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#50 fofal
Member since 2004 • 433 Posts

Busted!