What do you think about the portrayal of female characters in video games (including physical appearance, personality, role within the game, skills etc)?
I don't see the issue. Usually those that do are very one sided and simply the minority having this deluded issue. Trying to control creators intent because they have no creativity themselves.
Been playing an unhealthy amont of Resi2(2019) and the women are strong and independent. This is a remake of a game developed in 1998. And those kind of people above would poke holes and call the women in this game unrealistically attractive, and emotionally weak compared to Leon and Marvin, I've seen these claims in retro reviews. . These are the kind of hypocrites that overlook that Leon Scott Kennedy himself has always been portrayed as a very attractive man, and actually takes more a beating both mentally and physically than Claire, but when its male no problem for the complainers.
Gaming has sterotypes but it works for both genders, and more should learn to appreciate creators intent. If you don't like it? Make your own games.
From a purely academic and statistical point of view. In the field of feminist politics and social studies, there is a very high percentage of females needing rescuing as opposed to doing the rescuing.
So scientifically. The games industry is sexist.
They did research on it and everything. I read about it last month.
It's getting better, I think, but still has a way to go. I am enjoying this era of realistic, or at least more realistic, depictions of women; women who actually look like people you'd see in real life. Aloy, Lara Croft, Alyx Vance, and so forth.
I understand that some people enjoy the escape from reality that video games provide (I am one of them), but at the same time I don't need to see huge disgusting boobs on an 80-pound woman dressed in a physics-defying outfit. Give me hot but realistic over that any day of the week.
i think we're in the over compensation era as far as female representation in gaming goes, and devs desperate to avoid anything regarding women in their games being construed as sexist, misogynist or discriminating.
i think gender representation will balance back out over time.
misrepresentation isn't really an issue in my eyes. i see a lot of strong women leads in games and it doesn't bother me in the slightest to play as a women. dishonored 2, hzd, hellblade, alien isolation and prey are some of my favourites this gen and all have female protags.
the only game i've played recently which made me feel a bit uncomfortable was final fantasy xv. when you arrive at the mechanics at the start you meet a young girl working there in shorts so tiny and a gstring so high it would make a pornstar blush. it felt entirely out of place and unnecessary and made me feel like i was playing a game targeted at young teenage boys
Female objectification and stereotypes should cease to exist, it does not belong in games. Sexualization, depending on what context it is used for, like in the case of Bayonneta, can be beneficial. I never understood the double standard that women are regulated to dress a certain way or else its immoral, yet men, for the majority of the situation, do not or barely face any of these repercussions.
Even though I gravitate to more diverse selections of female characters/protagonists, I do not see what's wrong with those who prefer the more conventional versions.
Personality wise, both male and female characters can be interesting or bland, it depends soley on the developer, in that scenario.
Another trend I find generally disturbing is how some developers decide to make their female characters and/or protagonists young (around 16 to 21), as opposed of being older or middle age (etc.), mostly from AAA companies.
As a dude myself I find it's disheartening that games containing female protagonists are still in the minority and while granted that games where you are able to play as both genders have been on the rise (sometimes being the majority), it still is heavily dwarfed by games where you can only play as a male protagonist or whereby the prominent characters is a male. It's gotten to the point where in games whereby you can choose your gender of the character, I usually pick the female option, as them being able to be in the lead role seems like a rarity.
I mean, that is a valid concern, but there is also this to consider:
Shiranui Mai chan is also Kunoichi, commonly specialised in seduction to gather information and perform assassination in the Sengoku period. Faithful all considering_
No really difference with complaining Urien from Street Fighter and Heihachi san from Tekken wear a fundoshi.
But based on some of the conversations I've had on forums already predicting someone is going to post "semi-naked men is empowering, showing confidence". But apparently that cannot mean the same for women characters.
I dunno, seems like I've played games with many strong female characters, including main protagonists. Even in the cases of games I've played where they're sexualized in some way (mainly Japanese games), there tends to be a lot more to the character than their body. I know there are probably a lot of examples from both sides, but in general I think females are being represented more often and more equally as a whole in most mainstream games as of late.
On a serious note though, sure there are some extreme examples which objectify women. But that is true for other forms of media/entertainment such as music videos, UFC ring girls and page 3 models.
Equally, there are many instances of strong female leads in video games also if you look at Metroid, Horizon, Alien or Bayonetta (although she is a bit sexualised).
One thing that does bother me though is female character armour in RPG games. Less clothing = more defence, que?
I'd need to hear a very solid case for why it's wrong to sexualize and objectify in video games in the first place. Video games, just as in movies and literature - the latter of the two which don't receive nearly the same level of criticism - are fiction. Fiction usually is synonymous with fantasy and as such, it's not the creator's obligation to accurately represent anyone. Women in fiction (along with men) are usually depicted as attractive and fit because it makes more sense for them to do outstanding things in their stories. How come we don't see Tomb Raiders with the builds of Melissa McCarthy (or for that matter, Seth Rogens in Uncharteds)? It's all attraction. It's a fundamental part of being human. Just go into any bookstore or library and look at the fantasy and romance books. You're always going to see scantily clad thin women on fantasy books and muscular half naked men on romance books. Simply put, sex sells. Always did, always will.
With that said, objectifying and stereotyping anyone in real life I am against.
Video games are mostly action-centered. And the type of action we see in most video games is naturally a male dominated arena.
Just take a look at the kind of roles that the protagonist and side characters often play in video games...
commandos, spies, fighters, pilots etc. - basically anything that requires a lot of strength, dexterity and fast reflexes - something that SCIENCE PROVES men are more adept at.
Now I'm not sexist but the science shows that (apart from the obvious fact that men are physically stronger) their brains are more geared towards spatial awareness, whereas females brains are more geared towards communication. We see this played out in real life by the type of professions that males and females typically chose and prosper in.
Again, I realize there are exceptions and if a female wants to be an mma fighter or a pilot or a commando - then good luck to them but if a video game reflects what happens in real life then so what?
Actually, if anything video games are representing females in certain areas more than what is realistic. Increasingly we see more and more gender balance in games - regardless of the role being played.
As for sexualization, - again it's a reflection of what we see in real life. Females like to look good and sexy for the opposite sex. Why put a moral judgement on it?
@thereal25: Now I'm not sexist but the science shows that (apart from the obvious fact that men are physically stronger) their brains are more geared towards spatial awareness, whereas females brains are more geared towards communication.
as typified in the age old example of a couple getting lost, the woman wanting to stop for directions, and the man pointing out he doesn't need directions.
In any case, genetics is a tricky subject as it's hard in most cases to determine what is intrinsic vs what has been bred from years of cultural influence. I'm not arguing that there are no differences between sexes, just that insisting a difference is more than a temporary artifact of selective processes and thus irreversible can essentially doom a particular genetic type to a narrowly defined role. If we can use fictional mediums like games to explore possibility rather than unnecessarily hedging ourselves in so as to provide "realism" to uncreative minds, we might actually encourage real people to challenge themselves in ways from which we all can benefit.
I don't think videogames have a huge problem with gender roles. At least, if I'm going to pick on entertainment mediums for it, I wouldn't start there. When the Game of Thrones series started up, people viewed it as feminist and applauded it for that, when in fact within the fantasy genre, whether it's videogames, books, comics or anime, strong females have been a standard since Tolkien. That TV audiences were so startled by GoT's strong females just shows you what kind of stuff they're used to watching. Let's start there, then, if we're really interested in addressing gender roles in entertainment.
I mean, that is a valid concern, but there is also this to consider:
I'm not sure what you're saying here, posting a big boob'd fighting game character and underneath it a man getting has face kicked.
Are you saying dressing like a slut is empowering and that men are portrayed as getting beaten up alot?
I think you will find that violence towards women is more common than towards men in video games.
The thing about women (and men to a lesser extent) in video games are fairly 2 dimensional. There are people saying. "My female protagonist is empowered because look how many dudes she kills." But that is just a female skin. She is just the same as any old butch dude. There is no nuance or understanding of female personalities.
New Tomb Raider tries. She goes around slaughtering everyone then has a 10 minute breakdown, then onto the next massacre.
There are more personalities in the world world than tough guy/girl.
Pvt VasquezYu Shu Lien - Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Donny Yen (right)
I would like to see a female protagonist who just happens to be a woman, she might be tough or just plucky. But not psychopathic or emotionally retarded.
Alis Landale (aged 15) from 1987 is a good female protagonist. She doesn't break down at the drop of a hat. She at least wears leggings and her sexuality is not intrinsically linked to the narrative as in Bayonetta.
Men are either a wizard (who even is that guy) or a robot cyborg muscle man... or a cat.
The latest Lara Croft games are straight f*cked up.
People need to drag their minds out the gutter because the way women are (often) portrayed in games is embarrassing.
I will go further and say it is downright dangerous. Women are not sexual objects. Page 3 is gross and should have been banned ages ago and boxing ring women in bikinis is up their with wet t-shirt contests for female empowerment.
You stay classy GS.
thereal25 Now I'm not sexist but [I am] the science shows that (apart from the obvious fact that men are physically stronger) their brains are more geared towards spatial awareness, whereas females brains are more geared towards communication. We see this played out in real life by the type of professions that males and females typically chose and prosper in.
Funny how I mad a post about this subject on another forum.
Fact is, men and women are both objectified. Look at the average guy, none of them look like the beef cake guys in games, so all these boys playing games for last 20 years having to live up to men most of us can't be, not everyone is Olympic level athlete with godlike abs.
The 1 thing I don't get why its wrong for a woman to be sexually attractive? People don't buy magazines filled with just average women, and movie leads are often celebrities with money we'll never have so no woman could ever match their beauty. People see the movies cause they love the women, just like people play games cause they love the women, and many women are making tons of money being faces and voices for these characters, when they could be on streets or cocktail outfits actually getting objectified.
For the former statementt, men are not objectified, if they want to look like that. A woman whom is objectfied isn't one that dressed is provocatively, it's one whom is stripped out of all charactersitics and instead focusing mainly on their sex appeal (and nothing else) to entice the player or beimg a damsel in distress.
For your latter piece, why can't we also have more diverse female characters?
Any flat stereotyped character is a detriment to a game. To me, it's as boring and annoying a female that serves just as a boob carrier as a male character that is just muscles. And if we want to take offence then both are valid.
That being said I'm all for inclusion in video games. I want diverse male and female characters, not just body types but personality. Gears of War was a missed opportunity for a badass gay character(s), that would make a lot of right-wing snowflakes cry but I would love it. But then again, progressives should also respect that they're not just the ones with the "right" to be represented. It offends me as much seeing the right crying like a little bitch about "oh they are trying to push their agenda to make feel bad about my small dick" as when the left when bananas because Hatred portraied an hatefull missantropic guy.
Above all, I want artists and business to feel free to do whatever they want without people acting like someone is forcing them to buy it. Don't like something? Buy something else, make your own stuff, change hobby... grow up, stop being a dick/pussy/ass.
@saltslasher: The 1 thing I don't get why its wrong for a woman to be sexually attractive?
No one is saying that.
The thread posits they are objectified and I think that's obvious. Just because men are too, that is no better. I don't feel the need to go to the gym because those male characters look hilarious to me. Likewise I'm sure most girls feel characters like Street Fighter's Mika are a bit unrealistic and not a proper representation of themselves but a cartoon.
When it comes to portraying characters realistically, the flaws in character design becomes more obvious, with developers now having a responsibility to portray gender in a way which is considerate to both genders, with the advent of photo or near to photorealistic graphics.
Resident Evil: Code Veronica (Dreamcast)
Recent female characters seem more objectified in recent years than in the previous generation.
Lollipop Massacre (2012)
Women often appear at odds with a reasonable approximation of reality given the lack of any real personality.
Female characters in studio Ghibli films are entertaining and creative and not sexualised so why can't the games industry be more like Hayao Miyazaki?
The 1 thing I don't get why its wrong for a woman to be sexually attractive? People don't buy magazines filled with just average women, and movie leads are often celebrities with money we'll never have so no woman could ever match their beauty. People see the movies cause they love the women, just like people play games cause they love the women, and many women are making tons of money being faces and voices for these characters, when they could be on streets or cocktail outfits actually getting objectified.
Some people watch films for stories but each to his/her own. It is a fact that sex does not sell. I was in marketing (kind of) and that is known to be a myth. They did studies.
I can't believe you just said actresses are beautiful because they are rich (it's photography as much as it is make up). Not all female actresses are classically beautiful.
Kathy Bates
But I would rather watch Kathy Bates act than whoever is in the latest Lara Croft film.
Then you go on to say if they weren't actresses they would automatically be strutting around in hot pants at festivals selling cigarettes. Or even street walking!?
@Yams1980: The more sexy they can make a female in a game the better.
So you're saying the best possible female character is a porn star?
Generally, porn stars (particularly the West) tend to not be that attractive. When looking at how people perceive the most sexiest people, it's typically not porn-stars but actors, models and singers. Like Hugh Jackman, or that bloke that plays Thor.
Ada Wong comes to mind, very "sexy" model, since it was modeled after one, presumably the most attractive one Capcom could muster. Dresses in tight cloths, but nothing porn star level.
Slightly off topic - I've never understood why people found Angelina Jolie attractive. She has abit of a fish face.
According to boffins, Shania Twain has the closest to the most beautiful face.
@uninspiredcup: I know it has nothing to do with this debate but cannot overlook the chance to discuss and mention Resident Evil 2 Remake.
Good part of the game Ada section in the remake. Much better than the pushing crates of old. It's like they turned the scanning feature from Revelations into something less gimmick and more entertaining.
Did you get the new remake, any thoughts? Recall you really liking the original Resi2. I'm personally very impressed, very difficult, deep in Claire 2nd Run(aka Scenario B). It's much more challenging than any Resident Evil game I've played, including Veronica.
Not sure if you've had a playthrough yet, so avoid if not. Yet if I have one big complaint it's the lack of returning monsters like spiders, crows, and the giant moth.
@uninspiredcup: I know it has nothing to do with this debate but cannot overlook the chance to discuss and mention Resident Evil 2 Remake.
Good part of the game Ada section in the remake. Much better than the pushing crates of old. It's like they turned the scanning feature from Revelations into something less gimmick and more entertaining.
Did you get the new remake, any thoughts? Recall you really liking the original Resi2. I'm personally very impressed, very difficult, deep in Claire 2nd Run(aka Scenario B). It's much more challenging than any Resident Evil game I've played, including Veronica.
Not sure if you've had a playthrough yet, so avoid if not. Yet if I have one big complaint it's the lack of returning monsters like spiders, crows, and the giant moth.
Not that far in, just met Mr X with Leons campaign. Indeed, it's brutal on hardcore, had to reload a couple of times and plan routes.
Can't really judge it properly until the content is properly consumed, but i'm enjoying it. Been a long while since I played a proper survival horror game where you have to pay attention to resources and how you tackle enemies.
This discussion is always a mess and its have a tendency of specific gamers being in denial or just straight up dishonest. Couple this with the misnomer that men are sexualized and objectified just as much as women because the guys have big muscles, is simply lazing arguments. The first thing that needs to be clarified is the understanding of a character being sexualized. Some people have a tendency of wrongly equating males in games being "built" as being sexy. That is not how it works. Muscle dudes serves the purpose of powerful male not sexy male. Not that one cannot find a muscular dude sexy but it would be silly to automatically equate the two. The reality is that females characters are still sexualized and objectified to a far far greater extent than males but things have improved because of outcry from gamers. The market is not niche and encompasses a much larger audience and demographics than before. Developers are selling a product and they will have to cater for this new audience in the same manner they had to cater to the juvenile boys in the past. Beyond that, the sexualization and objectification of women in games are mostly cringey rather than a meaningful addition to the game. I am still waiting to see an everyday male mechanic dressed in the same stupid manner like exhibit A below.
@cyborg_says: About the same as I consider it in movies, advertising, and everywhere else.
For guys it’s the same way. You don’t see fat schlubby guys in watch and clothing ads.
None of that is unattainable by the way. The body on the female above is totally attainable with diet and exercise. But how much do you want to look like that? Enough as a woman to eat 1600 calories a day and to join a CrossFit cult? I have a 6-to-four-pack, depending on how hard I go any given week, and I’m 40....FOURTY. I keep it to around 2700 calories and work out 6 days a week, no matter what. My New Years resolution this year was to cut out my one cheat meal a week.
Most people would rather eat and lay on the couch though and I don’t blame them. We all have different priorities, but then don’t bitch when men or women look at a cut, fit rendition of the opposite sex with lust in their eyes and be irate because they don’t look at you that way.
Women are the ones blowing a gasket over it in media because honestly, they are a bit coddled and always have been. Wear a low cut top to a bar and you will find at least 1 guy to take the bait and buy you drinks all night. Try being a guy and getting shot down by literally hundreds of women in your life, and then see how much sympathy we have because you looked at Laura Croft and got mad because her digital butt looks better than yours.
Get serious. Sex sells. That’s not going to stop any time soon.
@uninspiredcup: Hardcore is really the way it was for me also, ink ribbons was too nostalgic to pass up. The Tyrant (Mr X) can be exploited in a few key ways even when it's in the same room, it has a cone view and only patrols certain sections, Unless you get caught or run, can easily hide behind an object that masks your avatar. I've done it a few times in the Library and Star office.
At anycase, much like yourself I'm not going to completely judge it till I've beaten all the games content. Right now though it's a very enjoyable game, however it's also more a best hits of Resident Evil, taking notes what worked well through the entire franchise.
How does clothing (unless from a historically accurate/authentic), gives any "meaningful addition" to a game?
(Also why list a Final Fantasy game, given the sense of style for outfits for multiple of its characters whether it be protagonist or antagonist throughout the series)
I think you will find that violence towards women is more common than towards men in video games.
Actually, I'm not sure that is true. What specific games can you mention where violence toward women is more common than toward men?
I'm asking because in most games I've played, I've mowed down guys the most. In fact, Far Cry 5 is the first game where I actually had a woman in my crosshairs. Even in GTA V, I only targeted those who took a shot at me and they all turned out to be guys.
I mean, that is a valid concern, but there is also this to consider:
I'm not sure what you're saying here, posting a big boob'd fighting game character and underneath it a man getting has face kicked.
Are you saying dressing like a slut is empowering and that men are portrayed as getting beaten up alot?
I think you will find that violence towards women is more common than towards men in video games.
The thing about women (and men to a lesser extent) in video games are fairly 2 dimensional. There are people saying. "My female protagonist is empowered because look how many dudes she kills." But that is just a female skin. She is just the same as any old butch dude. There is no nuance or understanding of female personalities.
New Tomb Raider tries. She goes around slaughtering everyone then has a 10 minute breakdown, then onto the next massacre.
There are more personalities in the world world than tough guy/girl.
Pvt VasquezYu Shu Lien - Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Donny Yen (right)
I would like to see a female protagonist who just happens to be a woman, she might be tough or just plucky. But not psychopathic or emotionally retarded.
Alis Landale (aged 15) from 1987 is a good female protagonist. She doesn't break down at the drop of a hat. She at least wears leggings and her sexuality is not intrinsically linked to the narrative as in Bayonetta.
Men are either a wizard (who even is that guy) or a robot cyborg muscle man... or a cat.
The latest Lara Croft games are straight f*cked up.
People need to drag their minds out the gutter because the way women are (often) portrayed in games is embarrassing.
I will go further and say it is downright dangerous. Women are not sexual objects. Page 3 is gross and should have been banned ages ago and boxing ring women in bikinis is up their with wet t-shirt contests for female empowerment.
You stay classy GS.
thereal25 Now I'm not sexist but [I am] the science shows that (apart from the obvious fact that men are physically stronger) their brains are more geared towards spatial awareness, whereas females brains are more geared towards communication. We see this played out in real life by the type of professions that males and females typically chose and prosper in.
Sexy is fine. Slutty is cheap and you're better than that.
Gotta laugh at this twisted logic.
"Violence against woman is more prevalent and games" how can you say that with a straight face? It's disgustingly inaccurate. You can argue that they play "victim roles" more often sure, but violence against men is 90% of the damn industry. "Its ok, because woman are more fragile than men, men are expendable, doesn't matter if men kill men for eternity, but just don't hurt a female" <--- pathetic.
2 Dimensional woman more often? right-o mate... like all our gaming male leads are super deep right?
Lara Croft - They tried to make it gritty to put Lara on the same level as men , STILL COMPLAIN. Still found a way to say its endorsing violence towards woman, its PATHETIC. you can find offence in anything. Its not hard, its not smart. My god this shit is as bad as the feminists complaining about Shadows of Mordor for STEALTH KISSING HIS WIFE (somehow translating the Violence towards woman by teach stealth attack this way).
"Woman are not sexual objects" , correct, but sexy woman is entertaining, just as sexy men are.... But hey, don't take my word for it, just take one look at any Female-focused media to see what dominates thier sexual appetites. Oh Hey 50-Shades of grey, rich-handsome man dominates woman... best selling.
Then you have the woman that sell their sexuality in many forms, making tons of money (not prostitution), its almost as if Sexuality is a PLUS, not something to be swept under your shitty abrahamic religious rug.
There are pleanty of games where woman are portrayed more realistically, there are pleanty of games that do not, both are fine. It's a damn fantasy medium. Yea I'l take big tits ninja up there over Karen from accounting with normal proportions, just like I have to put up with every male lead being a 6' muscular endless stamina wielding death machine.
People who make mountains out of mole hills are the real problem here. Entertainment is escapism, not a political movement. If Magic Mike and 50 Shades are some of the best selling woman's entertainment ever then CRACK ON, nobody gives a shit.
@kali-b1rd:Lara Croft - They tried to make it gritty to put Lara on the same level as men , STILL COMPLAIN
People only complained because she was written by a moron.
But I've had this conversation about 10 times already now.
@Black_Knight_00 said:
@jackamomo said:
I think you will find that violence towards women is more common than towards men in video games.
I'm listening. Please corroborate that with evidence.
Violence against women by men is worse than by other women because it is more often than not related to the woman's sexuality and her lack of control over her right to choice.
So men have to assert dominance over other men to decide who gets to get off with the woman.
Meanwhile she is just left waiting. This happens alot.
Metroid is not a female role model because the reward for winning is to see her in her bikini.
Go and google 'lara crying' and see how many images come up of Lara looking wretched and covered in blood.
Now go and find me a game with that amount of death animations but for a man.
What they did to Lara was vandalism of gaming's most cherished strong female icon.
@kali-b1rd: Blah. I've had this conversation about 10 times now.
Violence against women by men is worse than by other women because it is more often than not related to the woman's sexuality and her lack of control over who f*cks her. Nevermind that violence against HUMANS by HUMANS should be equal, but do tell me why criminal acts should not be portrayed as such? How many games portray rapes? Why would it not be sexual as this is a common issue in society? it makes the crime worse.... and the play 99.9999% of the time has to stop it.
So men have to assert dominance over other men to decide who gets to dick the chick. I should of read this, then I would of laughed and not written the above.. .wtf you on about?
Meanwhile she is just the tang. Name me some games where this scenario actually happens. where 2 men fight over the girl they are going to force **** as a reward for their victory.. I'l be waiting.
Metroid is not a female role model because the reward for winning is to see her in her bikini. Strong Sexy woman cannot be role models because they wear a sexy outfit for 0000.1% of a game/film/tv show. Well you might want to forget Wonder Woman then.
Go and google 'lara crying' and see how many images come up of Lara looking wretched and covered in blood. google image top results are lara standing around with a tear. There is ONE image of blood/screaming ... the image you posted.... another lie? (safe search is off.)
Now go and find me a game with that amount of death animations but for a man. Dead Space 2, Castle Wolfenstien ... any number of games that try to be edgy...
What they did to Lara was vandalism of gaming's most cherished strong female icon. You mean the one of the most sexualised characters in which you can literally play in a bikini?
Are you seriously denying ALL the recent research that shows that there are indeed NUMEROUS and SIGNIFICANT structural and operational differences in male and female brains???
I'm not a link kinda guy but you only need to type a simple sentence into google like "differences between male and female brains" and BOOM.
Have you been asleep for the last 15 years?
@Ish_basic:
I see the point you're making. Entertainment media shouldn't dictate the norms; women should be free to decide who and what they want to be.
Honestly though, I think this issue has largely passed. The entertainment industry (in these modern times) is really doing all it can to reverse stereotypes and provide gender balance.
In fact, it could almost be argued that they've gone too far with it - beyond what is realistic and believable - but I'm okay with that - I just have a laugh.
What I'm saying is that the complaint about sexualization is valid, but portrayal of men in videogames is not any more charitable: while women may indeed be portrayed as sex objects and damsels in distress, the overwhelming majority of males in videogames are villains to be beaten and killed... it's just that nobody cares, because there is no empathy for men.
As for female heroines, while I see where you're coming from, it seems like it's very easy to be disqualified from being a valid female role model according to your rulebook: do everything right but appear in a bikini as an easter egg? Disqualified. Be royalty but become kidnapped at some point? Disqualified. Be a badass adventurer but suffer emotional and physical trauma? Disqualified. The one example of good female protagonist you provide is not one I'm familiar with, but if 80s RPGs are anything to go by, I wonder how much of a fleshed-out character she is.
One last thing, and this is where I clallenge you to verify the claim yourself: talk to women (friends, family members, coworkers) and show them pictures of various female characters from videogames and make them choose which ones they like the most. You'll be surprised by how many of them will pick an overtly sexual one who's provocative and showing skin, rather than a more convservative-looking one, I know I was. There's a reason why female gamers (who are not radical sex-negative feminists) love Bayonetta.
Black_Knight_00 You don't see Alis Landale stripping off when you complete Phantasy Star.
RSM-HQ Resident Evil is cheating.
Kali-B1rd
Me: Go and google 'lara crying' and see how many images come up of Lara looking wretched and covered in blood.
You: google image top results are lara standing around with a tear. There is ONE image of blood/screaming ... the image you posted.... another lie? (safe search is off.)
Page 1 of google search "lara crying". Not a search for 'Lara dying'.
You're confusing gritty with a snuff movie.
Page 2 is just more browns. The colours in this game are too brown/orange.
New Lara never cheers up. Also. I hate how she interacts with men in this game. They don't pay her proper respect in terms of personal space. She's like a child that keeps needing propping up by strong father figures. It makes me cringe. This in not Lara Croft as she was originally written. Origins story or not.
In a patriarchal world. Fact. See 'the gender pay gap'. Which is unequal... Men are not subjugated in the way women are.
So stop complaining if someone depicts a man being hurt and say that's gender equality or just as bad as women being kidnapped for the billionth time.
It isn't. You are being ridiculous snowflakes and ignoring the fact that our world is sexist.
We are never going to move on if you can't accept that.
I'm trying to educate you on this so you don't make me look bad for the species we apparently are both a part of.
If I'm going to be optimistic about the future I at least want to see people understanding what inequality is and recognise it as a bad thing.
@Pedro: You have improved my outlook on the human race.
@Baconstrip78: You have not.
@Ish_basic we might actually encourage real people to challenge themselves in ways from which we all can benefit.
ish_basic you make an interesting point and it is what bothers me about this subject. People don't seem to appreciate that the human mind is corruptible and care should be taken to what you expose it to.
Because what you observe and consider in fiction can have an effect in the real world.
@uninspiredcup: Hardcore is really the way it was for me also, ink ribbons was too nostalgic to pass up. The Tyrant (Mr X) can be exploited in a few key ways even when it's in the same room, it has a cone view and only patrols certain sections, Unless you get caught or run, can easily hide behind an object that masks your avatar. I've done it a few times in the Library and Star office.
At anycase, much like yourself I'm not going to completely judge it till I've beaten all the games content. Right now though it's a very enjoyable game, however it's also more a best hits of Resident Evil, taking notes what worked well through the entire franchise.
Yea having trouble getting the library right now, didn't wipe out the room and a few lickers in the corridors (one outright blocking the upper passes) and 1 ink ribbon. So it's either trying to dodge round them and do the puzzle or take them out and attract his attention. Really like how the game forces you to think ahead with some forethought of self-preservation.
@uninspiredcup: It's tough a game as they come that's for sure, had some situations that seemed more me lucking out than skill.
Only Lickers I killed was in a later section that would rather not spoiler. Better to hug walls and tip toe when possible. Mixing red and blue for a defensive buff also seems more useful than green and red in the new game for ill situations.
@jackamomo:
Resident Evil is cheating.
Not really Resident Evil 4 was the first Resi game to have this to this extreme a level. Also even though Ada has her own playable campaign in the special edition (Separate ways) her death animations can be counted on a single hand.
Capcom have this inside joke for killing Leon in as many ways as possible and the video is still worth a watch with how creative some of them are, one of my favorites is when Ruisu (an A.I. coop partner) decides to blow Leons brains-out.
At any case you asked for a dude dying as much as Lara Croft and I just gave one example I'm familiar with.
If Resident Evil is suddenly considered "cheating" I think the series known for a Tyrannosaurus Rex boss and Tigers should also.
@RSM-HQ: It's cheating because it's a game in the horror genre.
Not counting Resident Evil games. Can you mention a game which ponders so lingeringly on the face of it's dead hero like in new Tomb Raider.
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Above is is Nathan chisel-jawed Drake dying in relatively dignified ways and he never draws blood and the camera never lingers on his dead or dying face. Unlike the new Tomb Raider game.
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The tone is too dark and bleak in new Tomb Raider. It lays it on too thick. Lara's death cries are too weak sounding. A superhero should not be weak. I would rather play a Resident Evil game. Much more light hearted.
Sexyness can be empowering and a positive female trait. Original Lara Croft is a good example of female empowerment. Original Lara would not be threatened by rape, as in the latest Tomb Raider, in a quick time event.
New Lara, weirdly, strips away all her sex appeal and leaves her vulnerable and incapable of dealing emotionally with her situation.
This is strange. The story's tone is monotone and bleak Yeah you kill a million guys but what's macho about that? How is she capable of killing so indiscriminately but still needs male role models for reassurance?
"Go and google 'lara crying' and see how many images come up of Lara looking wretched and covered in blood.
What they did to Lara was vandalism of gaming's most cherished strong female icon."
- This is all an exaggeration. You can hate how Lara was written in the new games but she was far from a wretched crybaby. She was strong and fierce in all aspects! She would literally bathe in the enemy's blood, slither and sink through the nastiest of mud and waters just to kill her opponents. She is still a badass!
As for the crying. It only happened in the most sentimental moments. Like discovering her mother's tomb or her very first human kill. They made perfect sense!
Even the older Lara had emotions! She was never stone hearted. Well...in the Crystal Dynamic iterations of her... But this Lara isn't that different from before. She's just fleshed out.
Yeah, you could make the argument female characters are stereotyped, over-sexualized, etc, but the same argument could be made for the portrayal of men in games and it would be just as strong. Characters in the average video game are shallow and underdeveloped for the most part. Video gaming isn't a good medium for complex characters, unless you count games with so many cut-scenes you could make a movie out of it - which kinda proves my point...
I personally don't mind it, most games that have these over the top portrayals of women aren't trying to emulate reality, they are just for fun.
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