Dark Souls 2 Speculation Thread - More Accessible, but how could it look?

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

SulIy

i am a newcomer to the series and i just loved the game and it isn't as trial and error heavy as you make it out to be 
and its because of the difficulty that i get a feeling of achievement after i defeat a boss something that is missing in the easier games

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]

personally i never had a problem with the difficulty. its just the constant backtracking everytime you die. this was the worst part of the game for me. yeah its all fun and stuff when its the 1st time you are going through a level. but then it just becomes tedious and you find yourself doing suicide runs past everything just to get another crack at the boss, especially since the enemies spawn at the same exact place each time.

MentatAssassin

Wow, just...wow. I've never even heard of anyone doing this. I mean wouldnt you want the souls? Not to mention the revenge or additional practice?

If they introduce an easy mode this is probably what people will do. Run past enemies, kill the boss right quick then run to the window and start shouting to the world how they just beat Dark Souls the hardest game ever.

I weep for the future.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="rragnaar"] You've got to understand that for the fan base that made it what it is, the game is fine. I don't like hard games. I still don't. For me, when I sat down to play Demon's Souls the first time, I had to ask myself if I bought what the game was selling or not. In the end, I loved it and went on to love Dark Souls. It is a formula that could very easily be compromised where longtime fans aren't happy and the game still wouldn't be approachable enough for mass market appeal. I have a feeling that there may not be a compromise that leaves both you and I happy with Dark Souls 2. I think the game could do more to introduce itself to newbies, but it is something special that could easily get destroyed by going after a crowd who may never like it, and leaving behind a disappointed and no longer loyal fan base.

Shiroibwoy

Then they need to include Easy Mode in the next game and leave that for gamers like myself, who do want a fighting chance. If there are others, such as yourself, that do deserve that awesome challenge that you found in Demon's Souls and now Dark Souls, that should be left up in the other difficulties as well. All I'm saying is that there needs to be a given for fair chance. I understand Black_Knight when he talks about being punished constantly. How exactly is being punished constantly fun? I know that you are suppose to learn from trial and error, but I think it's a bit overdone to death with the punishment aspect of the game.

So basically, what you're saying is that I'm a coward for wanting easy mode? Get a clue, man!

I don't have to play it on the hardest difficulty to satify my gaming experiences. Also, I know PLENTY about hard-work in real-life. You'll never understand the problems or challenges I go through on a day-to-day basis and I wouldn't be able to understand yours. Do you honestly think that I couldn't imagine how hard it is to obtain a six-pack and a ripped body or having to work on those long, hard hours? Believe me, I KNOW what hard work means and I do it EVERYDAY. But you see, this is a VIDEOGAME and videogames can be played on either the easiest or hardest difficulty, the choice is left up to you. So what if I want to play my videogames on the easiest mode? Does it mean that I won't be challenged as much? Sure, but at the same time, I'd like to actually ENJOY my videogames and get away from real-life. After all, isn't that what videogames is all about? Maybe not to you, since you think it's all about hard-work, but go ahead. Take that mentality with you all the time, that's fine. I understand it for real-life, but gaming doesn't necessarily have to be the same way. At all. Granted, I know that by going through the toughest games alone (which is what I've done PLENTY of times), I know how rewarding it is and how awesome the feeling that rushes over you after the game is completed and either one or multiple achievements/trophies are unlocked.

Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.

Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.Metamania

Hey, Meta? If you ever do pick up Dark Souls or Demon's Souls again, don't hesitate to ask for help. Lot of us here know way more about those games than is probably reasonable. Help goes a long way toward making those games way more manageable.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.c_rake

Hey, Meta? If you ever do pick up Dark Souls or Demon's Souls again, don't hesitate to ask for help. Lot of us here know way more about those games than is probably reasonable. Help goes a long way toward making those games way more manageable.

I will man! I'm sure that, by this point, people know a lot more of the game than I do, so your help or anybody else's help, for that matter, would be MOST appreciative! Thank you C_Rake! :)

[QUOTE="c_rake"]Dark Souls is already much easier than Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is also a better game because they refined the formula in spectacular ways.SulIy

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

Hey everyone,

with all the discussion about Dark Souls 2 going on and now that Dark Souls 1 has gained that much interest again, I wonder why there is so few "concrete" speculation about what it could look like to make a game like Dark Souls 2 more accessible, so I thought I just start a thread about it where I put down my ideas, let hear your opinion on them and post your own ideas as well.

So, here I start:

Bonfire Quicktravel: Could imagine they imply this, though I wouldn't be something I like for it makes the tensity of battling through an area obsolete as well as shortcuts, but then again, after you have backtracked the 1000 time it would be good.

Selling / Buying early on: Well, you can anyway do that in Dark Souls but it takes a bit of patience and exploration to do so. Most of the time though I can't really understand why it needs to be hidden away when most of the stuff the merchants have is mere basic stuff anyways.

Easy Mode: Would be a good idea for beginners to explore and learn everything a bit with on screen tutorials and such, the usual action adventure conventions. Maybe it could be made more "unappealing" to the hardcore fans by locking off Trophies in Easy Mode or just let the player play until a certain point in the story where he already has learned all the basics but can only progress in normal mode.

Better organised menus / looting: This is sincerely a mess in Dark Souls, when you want to check what loot an enemy has dropped you also pick it up automatically, thus making your inventory unorganized as hell. Sure, you can buy that bottomless chest at some vendors, but also having to always organize it there is an annoying clumsy process so it would be great to have more clear and indeed accessible options here

Splitting up currency: Maybe they could add in a second currency, not only Souls, but Gold etc. as well, for it's kinda more logical that some stuff is bought with gold and you can have your souls for, let's say only buying magic and level ups, not repairs (which is totally illogical in my opinion) and buying / selling weapons as well, it also would lower the amount of time you waste on grinding for souls, which really can get a bit out of hand after a while. With a good price / item balance one would still have to think about what to buy next.

PVP / CoOP restructuring: The basic concept of PVP and CoOp is fine as it is in my opinion, just the way how it's accessed really needs to be improved, let's say you want to help someone with a certain boss because you know that boss well, instead of having to drop down a summon sign and stay in the area aaaaaaaall the time get's pretty boring after a while, sure, you can kill the monsters around while waiting, but after that? Not to mentions the borders of an area aren't always that clear, so go through the wrong door and your summon sign is gone and you can walk aaaaall the way back just to put it down again.

So it would be better to allow the player to put down multiple summon signs that are permanent and won't go away too soon, but instead of being sucked right into the other persons world you would be asked first if you want to travel now. Or rehash the PVP / CoOp all together.


Leaving messages for other players: Would be nice if you could put down your own text instead of just predefined ones or improving the preset ones, for they're not always what you might be looking for and aren't always helpful, for example adding arrows and certain icons to it maybe, for when you reach a text that says "left" it isn't very helpful when you don't now from which side it's to be regarded.

Well, so far, this are my ideas and speculations in what Namco Bandai could do to make Dark Souls 2 more accessible. So, what do you think of these / one of these and what are yours?

Justforvisit

[QUOTE="SulIy"]

[QUOTE="c_rake"]Dark Souls is already much easier than Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is also a better game because they refined the formula in spectacular ways.IndianaPwns39

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

I'm comparing these games because the Souls games tend to take a different approach to creating challenge then most games that are generally considered challenging. That's the only reason I mentioned them, as a way to try to explain why a lot of people who generally like challenging games do not like these titles much at all.

True. But Dark Souls didn't have "soul form," which cut your HP by 50%c_rake

It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form.  Their were actual advantages to being in Soul form as well that balanced things out, curse is just a massive PITA if you happen to be out of the items that cure it, and a big time waster in a game that is already really good at making you invest obscene amounts of time for very little tangible gain.

Life isn't about easy mode.Shiroibwoy

It's just a video game. :|

[QUOTE="SulIy"] It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form. Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="SulIy"] It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form. Justforvisit

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.Metamania

That's for the best. Invaders can easily one-shot you these days. You only stand a chance when you're on new game plus or so.

That said, don't be afraid to go online and look for summon signs if you run into trouble. Co-op trivializes even the hardest of bosses.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.c_rake

That's for the best. Invaders can easily one-shot you these days. You only stand a chance when you're on new game plus or so.

That said, don't be afraid to go online and look for summon signs if you run into trouble. Co-op trivializes even the hardest of bosses.

Yeah. I figured that, by this point, there would be gamers that are highly leveled and could kill me instantly. I have no intention of dying that quick. :P

That said, I'll try not to be. I don't mind co-cp help when necessary, just not at the expense of others that wish to ruin the experience for me.

Yeah. I figured that, by this point, there would be gamers that are highly leveled and could kill me instantly. I have no intention of dying that quick. :P

That said, I'll try not to be. I don't mind co-cp help when necessary, just not at the expense of others that wish to ruin the experience for me.

Metamania

There's no friendly fire in co-op. Worst you can do to each other is parry each others attacks. Can't actually deal damage.

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]

personally i never had a problem with the difficulty. its just the constant backtracking everytime you die. this was the worst part of the game for me. yeah its all fun and stuff when its the 1st time you are going through a level. but then it just becomes tedious and you find yourself doing suicide runs past everything just to get another crack at the boss, especially since the enemies spawn at the same exact place each time.

MentatAssassin

Wow, just...wow. I've never even heard of anyone doing this. I mean wouldnt you want the souls? Not to mention the revenge or additional practice?

If they introduce an easy mode this is probably what people will do. Run past enemies, kill the boss right quick then run to the window and start shouting to the world how they just beat Dark Souls the hardest game ever.

I weep for the future.

the hell are you "wowing" at? its a legitimate complaint, one that ive noticed is actually fairly prevalent in the dark souls community. like the other dude said, fighting the same exact enemies, in the same exact place, the same exact way over and over again gets extremely repetitive and boring. yeah i get it trial and error, and when i first discover a new area, i will go through it carefully and try to kill everything, these are the most enjoyable moments for me in the game.

but after carefully going through and conquering the area, im most likely gonna get owned by the boss the first time i face it. and going through all that same stuff over and over just to get another shot at the boss can get very tedious and boring. i get enough souls from killing the boss and all the soul item drops. souls aren't exactly that hard to come by.

if they introduce an easy mode and ppl do run past enemies and kill the boss and all that stuff you said, so what? why do you care about how they play? if they enjoy that then let them do it. it's not affecting your experience of the game in any way, you can still play on normal or hard mode and do what you like. i never understood this sense of entitlement that gamers have that "oh if you don't play it my way or the right way then you are a noob" or whatever, it's pathetic. btw, a good amount of ppl do this, i dont know how you've never heard of anyone doing this.

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] There are only 2 enemies that can curse you and they rarely show up. Also there is an item that uncurses you rather easily which is really close to firelink shrine. There's never really a huge opportunity to get cursed unless you fall down a hole in the sewers, are trying to go to Ash Lake, or are facing Seath. My first playthrough I was cursed about 4 times (once in the depths, another at ash lake, and twice by Seath because I didn't bother moving out of the way during the boss fight). The first time I was dreading it because I heard about it, and how everyone thought it was a game breaker or horrible feature. I found them to be over-exaggerating, sure I had to run back to firelink from the depths, but it wasn't a pain in the ass, especially when you just run past enemies with your shield up.Minishdriveby

Stacking was removed in patch 1.05.

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="SulIy"] People only think Demon's Souls was harder because it was their first crack at these games. It's like how long time gamers who cut their teeth on NES Mario games thought that NSMBU was a pretty good game that finally presented a mild to sometimes good challenge, while other gamers think NSMBU is the hardest Mario game ever made. It's because I went through the bootcamp that is SMB 3 and SMB World that I don't see it as being that steep. Dark Souls seems easier to people who like these games because they already are used to the extreme patience needed to conquer them.

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Minishdriveby

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

What exactly does curse do that it is hated so much?

AcidThunder

Stacking was removed in patch 1.05.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

 

IndianaPwns39

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] Not really... Magic users in demon's Souls could take down bosses in 2-3 hits. The majority of the time you could just stand outside the bosses attack range and cast spells until dead; i.e. Tower Knight, Dirty Colossus, Armor Spider, etc. The game is also shorter than Dark Souls if you're just playing the story. I finished Demon's Souls in 24 hours. I haven't beaten it multiple times like Dark Souls though.Minishdriveby

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

 

IndianaPwns39

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.

Metamania

you can also die to get into undead mode so no other player invades your world or does any of the negative covenant stuff. i mean, there are times when the computer characters will invade you offline anyway, but playing as an undead online at least lets you use a lot of the benefits of online play. you can read warnings, give your own for health, help others for your humanity stat, or get some of the positive covenant effects.

plus i think it's a pretty neat layer of the world to see people jumping off cliffs to avoid human form.

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

Shenmue_Jehuty

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

SulIy

I just feel that Dark/Demons Souls is meant to be punishing and hard. Otherwise it's no different than the rest of the pack. When I played both games, that was a huge part of the experience for me and why I liked them so much. I can't imagine what it would be like if it were easy or even moderately hard. I feel like the difficulty also compliments the dark and dismall setting/vibe of the game.

I just feel that Dark/Demons Souls is meant to be punishing and hard. Otherwise it's no different than the rest of the pack. When I played both games, that was a huge part of the experience for me and why I liked them so much. I can't imagine what it would be like if it were easy or even moderately hard. I feel like the difficulty also compliments the dark and dismall setting/vibe of the game.Shenmue_Jehuty

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] Once again I never really had a hard time with Flamelurker (beat him on first try), but that was probably due to me being a long range mage character. I would agree that Dark Souls is infinitely easier than Demon's Souls for Melee characters. For the majority of the fights in Dark Souls you don't even have to dodge.

LoG-Sacrament

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

SulIy

[QUOTE="SulIy"]

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

idunnodude

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

IndianaPwns39

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] as far as melee characters go, i think being lightly armored for dodging is the best way to go against the flamelurker. i tried a shield with heavy armor and had a much harder time against him than when i tried to just not get hit at all.LoG-Sacrament

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

All I did was equip some flame resistant armor (think it was the Fluted Armor?) or a ring of flame resistance, packed a bunch of half- or full-moon grass, and went to town on him. Don't recall him being too difficult. Although, I was using the Crescent Falchion, so that's probably why. He was real weak to magic damage if I recall right. Only hard part was when he gets especially aggressive on the last quarter of health or so. Couldn't get into a pattern as easily.

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

c_rake

All I did was equip some flame resistant armor (think it was the Fluted Armor?) or a ring of flame resistance, packed a bunch of half- or full-moon grass, and went to town on him. Don't recall him being too difficult. Although, I was using the Crescent Falchion, so that's probably why. He was real weak to magic damage if I recall right. Only hard part was when he gets especially aggressive on the last quarter of health or so. Couldn't get into a pattern as easily.

That's my problem. I get really stubborn in these type of games and kill things the way I want to instead of using tactics or enchanted armor/weapons to exploit the enemy's weakness. I know that sounds stupid, but it makes me feel more bad ass taking something down when I'm that much weaker. In the case of Demon's Souls I had very few problems doing this outside of Flamelurker (mainly due to his aggression and him draining my stamina), but killing him with an ordinary spear in leather armor remains very satisfying.

I think Dark Souls was much more manageable in letting you take things down in whatever way you wanted to, but there were still plenty of weaknesses you could exploit. 

That's my problem. I get really stubborn in these type of games and kill things the way I want to instead of using tactics or enchanted armor/weapons to exploit the enemy's weakness. I know that sounds stupid, but it makes me feel more bad ass taking something down when I'm that much weaker. In the case of Demon's Souls I had very few problems doing this outside of Flamelurker (mainly due to his aggression and him draining my stamina), but killing him with an ordinary spear in leather armor remains very satisfying.

I think Dark Souls was much more manageable in letting you take things down in whatever way you wanted to, but there were still plenty of weaknesses you could exploit. 

IndianaPwns39

To be fair, I kind of stumbled upon that accidentally. Found that weapon by chance and ended up using it the whole way through despite not putting much points into magic and such. It wasn't until after that fight that I found out about its weakness.

Idea: Instead of an easy mode, how about an option you can toggle that, upon death, respawns you right where you died and keeps your souls and humanity intact (though still reverts you to hollowed form if you were in human form when you died)? You know, sort of like those "story modes" that some games have, which remove the threat of game overs by giving you infinite continues or something. That way everyone is still learning how to the play the game the developers intended without punishing newcomers as harshly, while still giving the fans the exact same game they expect from the Souls series.

Idea: Instead of an easy mode, how about an option you can toggle that, upon death, respawns you right where you died and keeps your souls and humanity intact (though still reverts you to hollowed form if you were in human form when you died)? You know, sort of like those "story modes" that some games have, which remove the threat of game overs by giving you infinite continues or something. That way everyone is still learning how to the play the game the developers intended without punishing newcomers as harshly, while still giving the fans the exact same game they expect from the Souls series.

c_rake

thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.idunnodude

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania

Anor Londo has some slight problems along those lines, but not to the same extent.

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.c_rake

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Justforvisit

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

IndianaPwns39

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.

the hell are you "wowing" at? its a legitimate complaint, one that ive noticed is actually fairly prevalent in the dark souls community.

idunnodude

if they introduce an easy mode and ppl do run past enemies and kill the boss and all that stuff you said, so what? why do you care about how they play? if they enjoy that then let them do it. it's not affecting your experience of the game in any way, you can still play on normal or hard mode and do what you like. i never understood this sense of entitlement that gamers have that "oh if you don't play it my way or the right way then you are a noob" or whatever, it's pathetic. btw, a good amount of ppl do this, i dont know how you've never heard of anyone doing this.

idunnodude

Maybe I just hoped I'd never hear of anyone doing this because it sounds like such a horrible way to play this game. It's not you it's me. I do have a lot of patience and have never been "bored" while playing Dark Souls so re-killing all those enemies doesnt feel like a chore to me.

As for the "entitlement" arguement. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Some people don't mind when other people talk during a movie, pointing out plot holes and ruining the experience for others. I for one like to shush those people so I can experience the movie the way the filmmakers intended. We still get the same movie. The talker just has to watch it my way or go see a Disney film where that sort of behavior is more welcome.

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

I haven't noticed the slightest framerate issues there when I played it. Frustration, cursing and getting near insane mental state issues, yes, but framerate? Nope.

Justforvisit

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.

I'm half tempted to import a copy of Dark Souls and test it for myself now :P

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.c_rake

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.