[QUOTE="muscleserge"][QUOTE="deeliman"] Sigh, let analyze this, just for fun.
The EU is not a singular entity as many refer to it here, its made up of many sovereign nation with many sovereign governments vs Russia's one strong government.
-Advantage: Russia. Like it or not, its much easier to mobilize one country vs many, as well as having a tactical advantage of a unified leadership. In the scenario in the thread the EU also has unified leadership.
Russia is the most resource rich country in the world (due to size), and the EU is very dependant on Russian exports of not just energy but timber, metals, and many other invaluable resources.
Advantage: Russia. They don't need to import anything to build whatever they wish, they've got everything from oil and diamond to timber and animal furs. They EU might have the means, but they rely on Russian exports for a lot of crucial resources. Sure they can get it else where, but procuring new contracts and waiting for deliveries just gives the Russians more time for the invasion, since Russians already have equipment ready to deploy. And what do you think will happen to Russia's economy if you take away all those oil exports?Their economy will crumble, while I'm certain that there are enough countries willing to take over russia's oil and gas share. And unless you can state why timber is a neccesary resource in wartime than that's irrelevent.
Russia is a military superpower like it or not, since the Soviet days. For nearly 50 years they were preparing for an all out war, depending just on themselves.
Advantage: Russia. Sure the EU was also waiting for a war, but they were and are relying on the US too much, their military doctrines are built around this, especially when it comes to Russia, and the SU before that. Oh please, are you telling me that you think the russian army as it is right now, is superior to the combined armies of the eu? The EU has more men, larger budget, better trained, better equipment.
All these $ figures mean squat when most of it is all inflated by the banking system, and please also consider that equivalent Russian arms are cheaper to produce. So, your just dismissing the fact that the EU has more ten ten times the amount of money to play with than russia?As well as the overall quantity of weapons, and please don't buy into the stereotype that the Russians are still using PPSH's and Musin Rifles. Russia is using AK-74Ms and 101/103Ms, T-80s (modernized) and t-90s, they have stealth fighters, bombers, unrivaled air defense capabilities, as well as the best missile tech in the world.(they are the fathers of rocketry) I never said Russia uses 19th century equpment, but what high end technology can Russia still produce without foreign help? Otherwise what can Russia possibly produce that's not derived from soviet-era technology? IT- nope. Transportation- nope. Consumer electronics- nope. Tooling machinery- nope. Bulava missiles perhaps. Russia has almost zero civilian high-tech engineering capabilities, any innovative systems not wholly developed by the military will need to be imported or stolen via aggresive FSB activity. The West is surging ahead in UAV technology, which is the way of the future. The incursion into Georgia showed just how antiquated the Russian military has become - they had access to zero modern ISTAR capabilities. The Russian military can but dream of operating MQ-9 Reaper type drones allowing their C&C to sit in Moscow and watch real-time action on the ground thousands of miles away. RVT's are now common place amongst UK & US troops in A-STAN allowing for real-time viewing, this technology incorporates miniaturisation advances taken from the electronics industry.
As for the tanks, that's classic ww2 thinking. Think about aviation & electronics. I think most Western armed forces nowadays would think of large numbers of poorly-equipped (as in short of sensors, protection systems, etc) tanks trundling west as a target-rich environment, not a serious threat. Russia doesn't have stealth fighetrs, they do have stealth bombers though. They have been revamping their military since NATO is still closing in and a new chinese threat is looming. They have satelites, drones as well as a very good intelligence network. Let me repeat this, Russia isn't stuck in the 40s or 50s as many believe, its a stereotype. I found it funny when I came to the west to find the media spewing so much BS about Russia, and yet when the Russian leadership stops NATO from invading say Syria, everyone goes ape-shiii1t. The reason that Russia was able to stop the west from intervening in Suria was because Russia used it's veto, and that doesn't really have to do much with a war between Russia and the EU.Don't forget that Russia is very secretive about their defense industry, its a habit they inherited from the Soviet days, look around online, the Russians are declassifying many documents from the Soviet era, and sometimes it puts me in awe that they had those kinds of things in like the 60s.
I am not saying that the EU equipment is bad, just that the Russians aren't behind, and are actually ahead in some areas (missiles) The Russians ARE behind in military equipment. Russia's defence industry is dying, selling AK's, heavy tanks and artillery is one thing, moving to net-centric warfare platforms suitable for the 21st Century is another. Russia's R&D base has suffered horrendously because of a lack of cash coupled with an increasing brain drain as key engineers and scientists leave for more lucrative offers outside the country in the private sector. The once famous universities that produced high-grade scientists are also starved of cash and many of Russians best and brightest are more interested in making money than serving the state.
Advantage: Russia, simply cause they got more weapons.More weapons? Russia Fighters: 669 EU fighters: 2020
Russia transport/airlift aircraft: 396 EU transport/airlift aircraft: 512
Russia MBT's: 6500 EU MBT's: 6021
Russia AFV's: 6000 EU AFV's: 37137
Etc etc.
I am at work and can't really go too deep into this, but what I meant by Russia having resources to take the EU fast, I meant they have the natural resources as well as production capabilities all in one country unlike the EU. They don't need to go abroad to get building materials or energy, they can sustain themselves even if isolated, which the EU syply can't especially to the same degree.deeliman
I agree that the EU can't really survive isolated as russia can, but the EU isn't isolated in this scenario. And Russia can't even dream about the massive production capabillities of the EU, the Eu can get plenty of natural resources elsewhere very fast.
I do sincerely like the fact that you claim that Russia has a huge edge because it is 1 country, but you dismiss the fact that the EU has a far better eqipted,trained and funded combined army and that the Industrial base and R&D is huge compared to Russia.
Timber is a very valuable resource war or not, plus having the resources at home is vastly better than having to depend on imports. Russia is world's #2 exporter of arms, so I don't think their defense industry is lacking much, in fact it is doing very well, you just don't see it in the west, after all western nations still hold Russia as an adversary, so no good things are ever said about it, in fact facts are skewed in the media in regard to Russia and its affairs all the time. (hence the stereotype) The brain drain was a 90s thing, infact Russia is investing heavily into the tech sector and R&D right now, they even built their own silicon valley. Even under a single leadership, your always going to face issues because those are separate countries, many don't really like each other. One other important fact is that the Russian populace is much more ready for war than the EU, they are generally fitter and due to conscription are much more war ready. Current day Russia still has a deep military tradition, where as the EU countries don't, at least not any more. It is much easier to find someone to sell energy to than to find a good, reliable supplier who won't charge you more due to desperation. Imagine war starts tomorrow, Russia cuts off the energy suppy, by the time the EU gets an new supplier, Russia will be half way done, and if they do it in the winter, even faster, cause the EU will divert some of its energy reserve for heating people's homes. Russian tech you ask? There is a good Russian TV show abou ttheir military kinda like the discovery channel did for the US, let me see if I can find it with subtitles, they show a lot of modern Russian equipment, high tech too. I am not blaming you for the opinion you hold, its just that no one in the west gets any of this and their main source of info is Hollywood or the biased media. But trust me, Russia isn't lacking in that department.
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