Here's the issue I have with your perspective-- that you view the child as a problem.

No, I view you as a problem. Society has everything it needs, both legally and technologically, to stop a unwanted pregnancy from becoming a child in the first place. But then people like you come along and tell women that they must ignore everything society has provided; and give birth to a child they do not want.

You're the problem, you are the one sticking your business into other people's lives where it doesn't belong; and demanding that they obey your personal ethics. You're like religion, more interested in people being obedient to your way of thinking than what increases or decreases suffering in the world, the universal measurement of right and wrong.

There we go again, passing the problem onto someone else rather than resolving it.ADF_Game

Here's the issue I have with your perspective-- that you view the child as a "problem."

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"] Wow someone does not understand property rights at all. Do you own yourself? Does a woman own HERself? If yes, she has a right to say who can have access to her. this includes fetuses. If you think that I said a fetus is her property then you need to keep reading that over and over and over until you realize I didnt.

"There's a huge gap between property rights and the right to terminate a life that you've taken part in creating"

Demonstrate this. If someone refuses to leave your land, many people say its completely within your rights to shoot them. In fact, some southern states permit this STILL to t his day. If you invite someone to your property you have every right to say get off it at any time for any reason

Atheists_Pwn

I live in Texas, and I don't need a lecture on property rights. They don't apply when you voluntarily mate with someone, knowing that you might get pregnant. Most of the people in those southern states that you referred to understand the difference. If someone comes onto my property uninvited and poses a threat to me, yeah.. I might have the right to shoot them. The fetus was NOT uninvited. It was willfully created inside the pregnant woman. Sorry man, even Texans know you don't have the right to shoot your kids on your own property. You're way out there on this one.

[QUOTE="Trollsters"]

[QUOTE="nervmeister"]**See my earlier trespasser analogy**

[QUOTE="Trollsters"]and pro choice people dont accepted the consequences of their actions, you belive our society should just freely have intercourse with anyone without any problems.ADF_Game

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"]It doesnt matter if the baby decides or not. You missed the point entirely. If the woman owns her self, she has the right to call the shots on who has any right to her. Which includes fetuses. The mother is a house, because if she owns herself, then she has a right to say who can be inside it. Read up on what property rights are. I dont necessarily believe in them, but the point makes sense.

nervmeister

So you think that asking someone to birth a child that they are responsible for creating is "punishment?" That's one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

Forcing someone who doesn't want a child to have one against their will? Sounds like a sadistic punishment to me. It's the modern age, pregnancies can be managed using medicine and technology. There is absolutely no logical reason as to why sex should always result in a child; unless they want it to.

Pro-life people want a world where we ignore all that we have and treat pregnancies like the dark ages, there is no point to it.

[QUOTE="Trollsters"][QUOTE="blackheart1889"]A pizza is not a pizza till it comes out of the ovennervmeister

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"] It doesnt matter if the baby decides or not. You missed the point entirely. If the woman owns her self, she has the right to call the shots on who has any right to her. Which includes fetuses. The mother is a house, because if she owns herself, then she has a right to say who can be inside it. Read up on what property rights are. I dont necessarily believe in them, but the point makes sense.

There's a huge gap between property rights and the right to terminate a life that you've taken part in creating. A fetus isn't property, it's a human life.

"There's a huge gap between property rights and the right to terminate a life that you've taken part in creating"

Demonstrate this. If someone refuses to leave your land, many people say its completely within your rights to shoot them. In fact, some southern states permit this STILL to t his day. If you invite someone to your property you have every right to say get off it at any time for any reason

[QUOTE="nervmeister"]Serious question: How tough is it to give up a child for adoption?Lockedge