@Smokescreened84 haha I'm enjoying this little back and forth (in case your wondering i keep thumbs uping your posts) agreed again but the way i see it there are to problems causing the industry to fall short at this 1. choice in games is still very much being worked on and experimented with and is not a perfect equation with most producers trying to weigh the risks of making more realistic choice structure against will it be less fun?(aka less sales) and the confines of budgets and technology(if you give 5 choices at every conversation and each one makes for a completely different game universe and character personality after only 4 or 5 conversations you already have a number of outcomes approaching infinity). 2. ideals are slow to change and sadly most of the time people are so ingrained in their way of thinking that the only way to have change is they have to die or retire this is true of almost any subject not just games i suppose what you'd call sticky social norms meaning long periods of time can passed after people are ready for change and it really changing.

@maztatrev does anything compare with those story's in the eyes of a art historian at the end of the day? The short reply is No it doesn't but it doesn't make his point less valid that it doesn't deserve to be boycotted anymore than books or movies of the past had been. To ignore his article on the grounds of that Duke is no Aristotle is a obvious statement purposed only for the sake of starting a argument and boosting your self esteem though notions that you know better than the rest of us here. so i counter that it is you sir who falls short

@Smokescreened84 agreed though I'm not so holier than thou to say i don't enjoy my chauvinist game or two (I loved 3rd birthday in fact the clothing ripping off does detract from her character but as a guy if anything made me happier i bought it lol). I do like games with female lead's i like strong female leads sometimes and have found bioware to have done a good job of portraying the female counter part in games like dragon age 2(i always make a female character first i just like the way the story plays out better and who can say they don't like a girl who can crack her knuckles and go toe to toe if not best any guy). However the female role i want to see and never do is a "Real" girl that's my favorite there are about as many body builder girls as there are one's who would drop their gun to save a puppy which is to say neither is realistic I'd personally like to see a woman in a game who's not infatuated with bunny's but is also not more ripped than brock lesnar because i have yet to meet either of those women in real life.

It's just another witch hunt did we really think this wasn't going to happen? lol it's almost required of a game to go through this these days to show it's a game worth buying. Lets not forget the grand theft auto debacle of the past these are the same people who think "schools should tell parents they can't send their kids to schools with soda pop's because it's bad for the kids and it's everyone but the parents responsibility to raise our kids". Honestly a part of me stops caring because the people boycotting it wouldn't have bought it in the first place and every time they do this less of the outside world care what they have to say.

so what I'm reading is if you took the anxiety of Sephiroth had him come back no matter how many times you killed him like Kane gave him a amazing head of hair like The Conqueror and made the entire game take part inside his creation like Andrew Ryan you'd have the ultimate villain hmmm.... who else here thinks we change "creation" to inside the villain and have Team Ico team up with Square's Development Divisions 1&4 to make the best game ever?

Darkrobe's idea of a quiz pre game isn't a bad way of going about it but if you limit it a little bit just not as much as as they have and take out the +3 good or -2 bad it could be done without much work at all things like if i help this guy these guys die and these live or the other way round if you don't and the game never gave you that ended a good way or bad comment on it then really you just picked what you thought was right or wrong i think that's what they are really getting at leaving it open ended and taking out karma bars like in my last post dragon age makes a good step in that the only good and bad is what you think then what your party members think but it's still things like destroy the most holy of ashes or not 90% of people read into what the programs think is good or bad in that. they just need more open to interpretation kind of situations for the player to have to pick rather than a cat in the tree kind of thing how bout do i fund the black smiths or the potion masters tell they monopolize the city do i fight along side the thief's of the underworld or the smuggles things like in halo are the red team or blue team good or bad? it became a internet comedy cause it's impossible to pick unless you hate one of the colors all they need to do is make it impact the game world in some way and you can pick for yourself if you think that one of the 2 sons of almost the same right and both have the love or hate or maybe both of their people is the good or evil king

i think they are slowly getting better about the way they go about it like in dragon age i made many avatars each with there own way of handling things rather than good or evil at first i meant to k she's good this ones bad but soon i was making he's a soldier good at heart but will kill anyone for revenge or she only cares for animals and other elf's like in the city elf home at first giving the elf money seemed like the good thing to do but at the 3rd time he came up with friends not even trying to pretend they were in need attacking him seemed like a nice option i want to see even more depth than that and hope bioware has put some of it in mass effect 2