Anyone else feel cheated? Neither of fanboys will take the bet.
yea, its happening. DirectX12 on XB1 -Fable Legends/DX12-
@ttboy said:
So what now?
We don't know to what extend partially resident resources will be used on the X1, but if it's enough to pull off cone ray tracing using partially resident 3D textures, it's going to be a pretty big deal. It was a big blow when Epic had to yank it out of UE4, but the Unity plug in and 3d texture implementations still gives hope. Even Epic are considering re-introducing it at some point. Perhaps second and third generation games will attempt to use this. If possible, I'd expect to hear more about it soon.
Now what.? Now i m,ake fun of you first for quoting Mistexr X media type of moron on an IGN board talking about sh** that already has been shut down,there is nothing there that hasn't been shoot down...
Lets start by Ray tracing you know Killzone SF uses Ray tracing for reflections right.?
Can we have it?
Not yet. We're actually really close on the PC, but still nowhere near being able to run on next gen consoles. Real ray tracing is around the corner on the PC though.
What your link claim ^^..
The ray-traced reflection system
Shadow Fall's reflection system also contributes to the often spectacular lighting effects work. Michal Valient previously explained the basics in Guerrilla's post-mortem of the PlayStation Meeting demo, but was on-hand to go into more depth during our visit to the studio.
Reality ^^.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-killzone-shadow-fall
Scratch Ray Tracing advantage.
This ^^^ is from a PS4 presentation.
Scratch Voxel cone tracing from the list.
Because DirectX 11.2 and the X1 chip architecture is built for doing partial resident resources in hardware. Removes the limitations other software implementations had, which held some engines back, such as John Carmack's Rage.
What your link ^^ claim..
Now this is true the X1 chip was hardware support for PRT,problem is the PS4 also has the same hardware support,so does the 7750,7770,7790,7850,7870,7950,7970 + all the R refresh cards as well that are based on GCN.
This game use PRT and it has bigger drops on xbox one while been 900p while the PS4 version was 1080p,has also shimmering problems and screen tearing,but but but the xbox one has special hardware for PRT..lol
The X1's architecture and data move engines have tile and untile features natively, in hardware:
Data move engines = DMA with another name just like Tile resources = PRT,each GCN has 2 move engines which mean the PS4 has 2.
Doesn't the PS4 have this too?
Both AMD GPUs support partial resident textures, but we do know for a fact Microsoft added additional dedicated hardware in the X1 architecture to focus on this area beyond AMD's standard implementations.
This is a lie they didn't.
Xbox One does, however, boast superior performance to PS4 in other ways. “Let’s say you are using procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces – that is, using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU – Xbox One will be likely be faster,” said one developer.
How has this ^^ turn out how many games are faster on xbox one vs the PS4.? Hell the biggest gaps are exhibit by the PS4 and up to 30 FPS faster basically doubling the xbox one performance,that is because this ^^^^ up there doesn't materialize much on games,and is based on an assumption.
When might we hear something about it?
DirectX11.2 was only recently unveiled earlier this year. No launch games would have been designed for this. Partial resident textures are still a fairly new technique,
This is a lie ^^^ Ryse use PRT and PRT is out since 2011 and is supported by OpneGL since 2011,relatively new my ass,hell before that it was megatextures which is the same sh** but software wise and which is use by Rage.
Everything on that crappy list is supported by PS4 everything.
So what now.? Now you look like a fool...
@slimdogmilionar said:
@tormentos: why not just call me out about the whole 6gb of textures being stored on ESRAM? Maybe because it's the truth? M$ can store 3gb of textures in 16mb of esram XBox one has 32 mb(48 actually what the other 16mb is for we don't know) so 32mb of esram equals 6gb of textures. Can you debunk that? NO.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/4-063 at about 18 minutes in he specifically says they are only using a 16mb tile pool to render a 3gb representation of mars surface. 16mb to render 3gb of data, again 16mb, one last time for it to really sink in 16mb tile pool to render 3gb, the one has 32mb. If 16mb equals 3gb then shouldn't 32 equal 6gb.
Here is someone who makes it even easier for you to understand http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/x1-esram-directx-11-2-from-32mb-to-6gb-worth-of-textures.453263349/
Let's put it like this xbox 360 was easier to program for than ps3 even though xbox 360 still had edram granted PS4 is easier to program for than both. Last gen developers chose xbox360 unified architecture despite having to do extra work by moving stuff to edram, it was easier than trying to program for the Cell's spu's. Sony had no tricks up their sleeve to make the PS3 easier to program for devs just had to learn the system to bring out the true power of the Cell.
Naturally we see the same trend this gen dev's will opt to dev for system that's easier to program. In order for M$ to really get dev's to use esram properly they are going to have to provide the tools themselves that will make esram easy to program for, ie DX12 and new sdk's. Dx12 for xbox will not be what a lot of people think but it will make it easier for developers to program for Xbox one and use esram efficiently, hell M$, Nvidia and Epic are working together to implement DX12 in UE4. The xbox will get easier to program for, I mean it was only made by some of THE BEST engineers in the world, by one of THE BEST software companies in the world, sorta like Apple products.
PS4 is more powerful but it still has it's flaws the most recent being Sony just letting the cat out of the bag that real world memory bandwith is only about 140gb/s and the more the cpu is used the lower that number goes.
http://wccftech.com/sony-ps4-effective-bandwidth-140-gbs-disproportionate-cpu-gpu-scaling/
http://kakigadget.com/sony-ps4-effective-gpu-bandwidth-is-140-gbs-not-176-gbs-disproportionate-cpu-and-gpu-scaling.html
It makes sense why they were pushing gpgpu so much though, if they keep most of the work on the gpu they get to maintain higher bandwidth.
You are an idiot once the textures are expanded they seat on the main pool of ram not ESRAM,PRT works with any memory it wasn't design for ESRAM all GCN on PC support it and non has ESRAM.
Implying that the xbox one has 6GB extra of ram is stupid and down right moronic MS would be screaming all over,we have 14GB of ram sony has just 8GB this company was hyping freaking 100mhz bump on the same CPU last year vs the PS4,6GB of extra memory is something the would make a big across the street add that would state it.
In Fact quote MS stating that the xbox one has 6GB extra of memory because of PRT and ESRAM i dare you.
And is not 48MB of ESRAM is 32 the 48MB was for the whole APU,that mean CPU cache,probably cache for the sound block,is just as useless as the 5 billion transistor count,which bring me to my other point about MS deceiving people on PC chips use to be measure on transistors,so the more transistors the more hardware inside to produce power,MS knows this and try to deceive people into thinking that the APU they had packed something strong by claiming it was 5 billion transistors,sony one isn't that heavy so that created a false sense of their chip carrying something strong,when in reality they added ESRAM which alone weights 1.6 billion transistors which basically inflate the APU....lol
You are as clueless at it can be that apply to all GPU with PRT in,in fact that demo was done on PC not xbox one and PC don't have ESRAM you walking pancake,see the Nvidia logo there.?
In fact he start saying it is also supported on PC,PC doesn't have ESRAM so basically what they took is 16MB of the GPU memory and partially store 3GB of textures,which is the same the PS4 need to use 3GB of partially resident textures 16MB,PRT wasn't created for ESRAM it has work on GCN before the xbox one was even out on 2011.
With partial resident textures, or tiled resources, or as Microsoft likes to call it, the texture is split up into smaller tiles allowing you to load only the tiles necessary to be displayed at a particular detail level. So for our stretched road, it's not really necessary to display all the detail you need at 1 foot away, for the portion of the road that might be 50 feet away from the player's camera.
This ^^^ if from your own second link,see how he say PRT then Tile resources and stated that is how MS like to call it.? Yeah that basically say i am right and you are the fu** wrong,since you fight me claiming that PRT wasn't Tile Resources that PRT was software you argue that against me with great denial i may add so now what is or isn't PRT the same as Tile Resources.?
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa is your link...hahaha
EDRAM wasn't there to move anything,it didn't work like ESRAM,which can read and write,EDRAM could not do that,it was to warranty 720p with 4XAA free and failed because 10MB was to small and developers have to tile which they didn't like.
And the xbox 360 used DDR3 which was ok for the GPU of that time in fact stronger GPU than the xbox 360 and PS3 ones used DDR3 like the 8800 DDR3 wasn't as big bottleneck then as it is now,so EDRAM wasn't a big deal if it wasn't use like many developers did because DDR3 was fine for the 360.
No we will not see that that because the xbox one doesn't have a Cell like CPU that will make up for the GPU gap,something the PS3 did have.
ESRAM is easy to code for,stated already by both the developer of Metro and Rebellion,the problem with ESRAM is that it is to small and both developers agree on that..
I think eSRAM is easy to use. The only problem is…Part of the problem is that it’s just a little bit too small to output 1080p within that size. It’s such a small size within there that we can’t do everything in 1080p with that little buffer of super-fast RAM.
Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esram-too-small-to-output-games-at-1080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games#FzaZTVjHFcUJRKRc.99
Rebellion ^^.
Digital Foundry: Is ESRAM really that much of a pain to work with?
Oles Shishkovstov: Actually, the real pain comes not from ESRAM but from the small amount of it. As for ESRAM performance - it is sufficient for the GPU we have in Xbox One. Yes it is true, that the maximum theoretical bandwidth - which is somewhat comparable to PS4 - can be rarely achieved (usually with simultaneous read and write, like FP16-blending) but in practice I've seen only a few cases where it becomes a limiting factor.
Metro Redux developer ^^ both say the same,is not hard to code for ESRAM it is just to small.
And lastly what you quoted there was a scenario where the PS4 CPU can eat bandwidth that way not all of them that was from GDC where sony always expose the do and don't on the platforms.
How would the unified system architecture and 8GB GDDR5 RAM help in making a better game? Gilray stated that, “It means we don’t have to worry so much about stuff, the fact that the memory operates at around 172GB/s is amazing, so we can swap stuff in and our as fast as we can without it really causing us much grief.
http://gamingbolt.com/oddworld-inhabitants-dev-on-ps4s-8gb-gddr5-ram-fact-that-memory-operates-at-172gbs-is-amazing#koekXLlX3sOsjirU.99
Oddworld developer was already operating at 172GB/s..lol
So yeah some scenarios,stop inventing crap.
@StormyJoe said:
@Krelian-co said:
@StormyJoe said:
@Krelian-co said:
@StormyJoe said:
@Krelian-co said:
@StormyJoe said:
@tymeservesfate said:
@StormyJoe said:
@tymeservesfate: Bu... bu... bu... @tormentos said it won't matter.
his DC will be the stuff of legends once some viable enhancements do take place after DX12's release. my guess is he'll resort to the enhancements not being significant enough for him, or some other nonsense. i don't even take the time to read his posts anymore...too many bull turds in them.
Probably, It's like if anyone uses the words/phrases "DX12", "closing the gap", " or XBox One 1080p/60fps", the ussual cow dolts come a-runnin'( like Tormentos, @grenadelaunchr@GrenadeLauncher, and @I_can_haz). Hell, I even got a response from @Krelian-co; who, like the Stork, may actually be brain damaged.
i am sorry but unlike you i don't get called stupid on a daily basis, now (insert here) excuses for that.
Neither do I -
selective memory sure is a nice thing to have, but then again lems seems to ignore reality.
Oh, sorry. I meant to say "I get called stupid by half the forum but i deny it because my mom says i'm smart!"
Better?
i do agree, just look at the train wreck of thread you did last time, everyone calling you stupid, that's sad.
You know, I was just going to let you get the last word. However... CHANGING THE QUOTED TEXT? Jesus, you are such a pathetic piece of crap
there there clowny, no need for tears. I don't enjoy making you cry when we have these arguments, you just say some very stupid things, nothing personal clowny, i will be the big person here and say that i am sorry for making you cry constantly. Better now?
@slimdogmilionar said:
@tormentos:
Why would PS4 have DMA engines when it only has one memory pool? Why? Stop and listen to yourself for a minute dude, if PS4 did have move engines in would be redundant for the system to move something from main memory just to move it back to main memory, it would be a wasted cycle.
Second storing 3gb of data in 16mb won't work on all gpu's the same way, if it could then it wouldn't be such a big deal for xbox. PC don't have embedded ram yet but from the looks of things it's coming Intel's e-DRAM shows up in the wild or how about this one from Nvidia, Nvidia's Pascal to use stacked memory, proprietary NVLink interconnect.
Of course PRT was made to work with all memory you idiot, but M$ has their own set of tools and the Xbox was built around them. If it was built with Dx12 in mind and using esram to store textures then that's how they differentiate their tools from everybody else's, why else would they state that you could texture out of main ram and esram at the same time.
"You can think of the ESRAM and the DDR3 as making up eight total memory controllers, so there are four external memory controllers (which are 64-bit) which go to the DDR3 and then there are four internal memory controllers that are 256-bit that go to the ESRAM. These are all connected via a crossbar and so in fact it will be true that you can go directly, simultaneously to DRAM and ESRAM,
M$ doesn't have to scream we have 14gb of ram because people are already talking about the potential of esram in the xbox one, did they make a big deal out of edram on xbox 360, no becasue it's stuff the general public won't understand even when developers talked about edram last gen people didn't understand it they just knew that the xbox was producing better looking games.
I don't have to quote M$ saying anything you saw the build conference they were using a 16mb tile pool to render 3gb of data, regardless if it was on an Nvidia computer they were still using M$ tools. If they knew already that using Directx they could fit 3gb using 16mb, why not build your machine to cater to your tools. If you understood hardware and got your head out of your ass, and stopped trying to be right all of the time you would see how 32mb of esram could give you an extra 6gb of texture storage.
Lastly there is 47mb of esram this has already been confirmed when they broke down both systems
"It’s hard to tell exactly how the Xbox One’s 47MB of claimed SRAM fit into the floor plan, however. We know that the CPUs in question contain a total of 512K of L1 and 4MB of L2. If the two blocks to the right are ESRAM, each block should be 16MB, for a total of 32MB of cache there. The GPU should contain 512K to 1.5MB of L2 (512K being standard for a GCN chip of this size, with more L2 if Microsoft choose to boost that capability), and about 224K of L1 in total. That leaves about 10MB of cache missing. If the SRAM block between the two CPUs is that large, it’s far more dense than the SRAM to the right of the GPU."
Bro developers still used edram to store render targets on xbox 360 it was just to small to fit all of the bigger targets in there that's why the system required you to be able to pull from edram and main ram(which was GDDR3) at the same time.
You suffer really bad from cognitive dissonance, it's what makes you look so silly when you post.
DMA are part of the GPU you walking pancake..hahhaaaa
For use in compute applications, the Southern Islands GCN Tahiti design includes dual Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE) for the independent scheduling and dispatch of work items, necessary for efficient multi-tasking. This allows compute workloads to operate in parallel with graphics workloads, and facilitates fast context switching so that demands by workloads that exceed concurrency abilities can be given needed resources. Despite featuring PCI-Express 3.0 which doubles interface bandwidth from 8GB/s to 16GB/s, plus support for numerous data and protocol commands, the internal dual DMA engines can push data through the bus to saturate that bandwidth.
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/amd_hd7970_launch_review/index.php?p=2
It will and the fact that non GCN or GPU has ESRAM says it all,MS say compatible with PC and console if you don't want to understand what that means is your problem,PRT doesn't need ESRAM to work,it wasn't made with ESRAM in mind..lol
That fine the problem is PRT work with some GPU out NOW mot 3 years from now,all AMD GCN support it and some from Nvidia to and non have ESRAM you have not point.
Yeah sony has its own set of tools as well that mean total shit,once again Trials Fusion use PRT and runs better on PS4.
No the xbox wasn't build around it man stop your sh** the xbox one was build around Kinect,which is why MS went cheap with memory and used DDR3,and ESRAM which was cost effective to them in other words they didn't want to pay for GDDR5..haahhaha
You don't know sh** man hahahaa MS did make a big deal of EDRAM on xbox 360 and make a fake chart comparing the xbox 360 vs the PS3 bandwidth wise,in fact like on XBO they joined the bandwidth and claimed the 360 had 278GB/s bandwidth even higher than the xbox one..hahahahaa
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/
Yo know shit,you know shit,you know shit,you know shit...hahahaa
Major nelson it self hyped EDRAM on xbox 360 as having 5 times the bandwidth of the PS3.
Hahahaa How did that worker for the 360.? Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Memory controllers mean sh** they are there to say what moves and what don't stop man...lol
You don't get it do you,there is no MS tool the same tool sony has it,it is the hardware process not the software one what make PRT work and fit 3Gb of data in 16MB not MS tools,man all secret sauce about PRT has been shut down.
The fact that you still trying when you claimed PRT and Tile resources weren't the same thing says it all you have a PHD in stupidity..hahaha
Please dude it was basically use to get 2XAA free because the promise 4XAA could barely be achieve without tiling.
By the way you are owned again..lol
@magicalclick said:
Well, since this thread demo DX12 nicely. I wonder is it actually used those Conservative Resterizer and Blend mode. If not, it is still looking damn impressive.
Now, looks like the topic of esRAM again? Well, edRAM is require to be used in Xbox360. esRAM is not required to be used in XboxOne. Turn10 already said they only used esRAM for something that updates a lot. Fitting everything into esRAM is never the desired usage.
As for Tiled Resources? It is a technique that loads very tiny textures from main memory into graphics memory. Yes, they are physically the same RAM, but, they are virtually partitioned. What tiled resources is basically allow 90% main memory and 10% GPU memory partition while achieving high level of texture details.
Is DDR3 more suitable for transferring tiny textures at low latency with lower bandwidth? I don't know. I don't see any game using tiled resources yet. (texture streaming from HDD to RAM is not tiled resources, texture popup is relates to this).
And even the Forward+ algorithm used by Horizon 2 is an interesting take on DDR3. Forward+ computes light data in GPU instead of CPU, meaning those computation is running on low latency DDR3. Is this better on DDR3, I don't know. But, Horizon 2 is using Forward+ with MSAAx4 at 1080p on a dynamic open world with lots of collisions. Does DDR3 help, don't know. But, the game sure is nice to look at, and deliver on time with lots of content.
That because it was demo on a high end PC with an Nvidia GPU,non of the 2 represent the xbox one..
All the contrary EDRAM wasn't need to be use and many developer didn't use it,which is why many games on 360 don't have AA.
On XBO if you don't use ESRAM you destroy your game,DDDR3 is not even close to enough to get your game to 15 FPS even at 900 with next gen graphics,it would totally cripple the performance,ESRAM is just to small for certain games and that is the problem.
Tile Resource is already in use Ryse use it,and Trials Fusion use it as well.
Forward Rendering is also use on PS4 games,it has its pros and cons.
DDR3 is the main memory pool of the xbox one,ESRAM is basically a middle man in charge of the xbox one not running dry on bandwidth because DDR3 doesn't have the speed so what ever need to be move fast it most pass by ESRAM,static skies and things like that which don't change can be place on DDR3.
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