Will Microsoft outlast Sony?

  • 170 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by cyclops10 (566 posts) -

I'm not too familiar with the financials of it all, so sorry if i'm way off base. But I've read a few comments on here in regards to Sony's money problems, but isn't it kind of inevitable that with Microsoft's bottomless pockets that they will eventually win?

Not to mention that microsoft seem to be making more money from the XBone than Sony are from the PS4?

#2 Edited by AppleFan1991 (3037 posts) -

As a overall company, almost absolutely. They are flush with money and are making more per each console sold than Sony is. Sony has been selling headquarters and buildings off to cut costs. Hopefully Sony can turn it around, but as of right now, there's almost no chance of Microsoft as a company falling before Sony. (Sadly)

#3 Posted by Shewgenja (8351 posts) -

Two gens in a row of third place. Those bottomless pockets don't seem to be helping too much.

#4 Edited by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

MS Having more money doesn't mean X1 will do better than PS4. As you all can see, PS4 is trouncing X1.

#5 Posted by cyclops10 (566 posts) -

MS Having more money doesn't mean X1 will do better than PS4. As you all can see, PS4 is trouncing X1.

Sure, maybe not this gen, but eventually?

#6 Posted by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

@cyclops10: Not with MS current business model. They don't have the worldwide appeal of PlayStation.

#7 Edited by lamprey263 (22825 posts) -

PS4 will do good, but Sony will still lose money. They've been unable to make a profit without chucking assets for many years. Last year they had to sell $5.4 billion in assets to make a $400 million profit. When they do stuff like that their equity shrinks, they have less assets to back their debts, and eventually the company becomes insolvent. They probably can withstand another $10 billion in shrinking equity until their goodwill exceeds their remaining assets in which case the value of their goodwill will shrink dramatically. Eventually the companies assets will go to a holding company to be sold off to pay off it's debts, where they'll probably learn they overvalued their assets and can't pay back all their debts. But Sony has been cutting off a lot of excess losses over this year as well as last year, hopefully they'll be able to reach profitable revenues on their products and services without having to sell off assets, or if they do take losses hopefully not much, they can at least maybe survive the rest of the gen (which some argue might be the last traditional console gen). They should save themselves the trouble though and just stop producing TVs, they're never going to make that work again and it's just losing them money, they're just going to get rid of it next year they might as well save themselves the trouble.

As far as consoles go, think of Sony as the person throwing the awesome party paid for on credit cards they never plan on paying back.

#8 Posted by SolidTy (42130 posts) -

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

#9 Posted by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

@lamprey263: You do realize PS4 gets cheaper and cheaper for Sony to make right? The Japanese government would bail Sony out before letting them go under. Much like the US bailed out GMC as well as other car companies. Sony is a landmark brand in Japan. Sony will be fine.

#10 Posted by clyde46 (44089 posts) -

@lamprey263: You do realize PS4 gets cheaper and cheaper for Sony to make right? The Japanese government would bail Sony out before letting them go under. Much like the US bailed out GMC as well as other car companies. Sony is a landmark brand in Japan. Sony will be fine.

What do you think being bailed out of the Japanese government would do to Sony's share price and investment value? Any company that needs propping up by their national government/tax payers is bad news.

#11 Edited by TigerSuperman (1961 posts) -

Two gens in a row of third place. Those bottomless pockets don't seem to be helping too much.

So by being 2nd place two gens they were somehow third?

#12 Posted by MlauTheDaft (3271 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

I would have been great if this was the very first reply.

#13 Edited by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

#14 Posted by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

#15 Posted by tormentos (16798 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

Two gens in a row of third place. Those bottomless pockets don't seem to be helping too much.

So by being 2nd place two gens they were somehow third?

They had 2 million lead on the GC when both combined sold 47 million and sony alone sold 156 millions consoles,is sad to even claim they were second,it has not purpose second place is the first loser.

Then last gen they end tied with sony and again loss,it not worth noticing such a pathetic performance even more when they release 1 year before every one else.

Maybe the only way MS can win a generation is if they outlast sony and Nintendo and run alone.

#16 Edited by SolidTy (42130 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

I would have been great if this was the very first reply.

A shame I didn't log in sooner, haha.

#17 Edited by clyde46 (44089 posts) -

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

#18 Posted by AppleFan1991 (3037 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

E-Mail in fact. But on a serious note. It doesn't take an analyst to see that Sony is struggling mightily while Microsoft is not.

#19 Posted by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

@clyde46: Not really, sorry if you read it that way but this topic is something no one here can predict. GMC was bailed out and they're still selling cars and making sales. As long as PS is around and viable, that's all that counts.

#20 Posted by clyde46 (44089 posts) -

@clyde46: Not really, sorry if you read it that way but this topic is something no one here can predict. GMC was bailed out and they're still selling cars and making sales. As long as PS is around and viable, that's all that counts.

They may well be making sales but its no where near what their rivals are making. Its exactly the same with Sony. The PS arm is not able to keep the whole company afloat, the blood is in the water and unless Sony get out of said water very soon, they won't be around in their current form for much longer.

#21 Posted by navyguy21 (12727 posts) -

In worldwide business markets? Yes

In Gaming? No, not unless they change their policies toward gaming, gamers, and game development withing the next 2 years, this may be their last gen.

#22 Posted by misterpmedia (3363 posts) -

I think a better comparison would be. Will Xbox outlast Sony. Or will Xbox outlast PlayStation.

MS is loaded so company Vs company Microsoft has fingers in more money giving pies to even care.

#23 Edited by SolidTy (42130 posts) -

@WadeFan said:

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

1.) E-Mail in fact.

2.) But on a serious note. It doesn't take an analyst to see that Sony is struggling mightily while Microsoft is not.

1.) I want one still. I own two printers. I'll have to look into that.

2.) Sure doesn't take an analyst for that. While that much is obvious for many years now (this song and dance I've seen since PS2 days then later in through the PS3 gen), my point is there is far too much data (R&D, projects, movies, forecasts, investments, music, et cetera) that is not accessible to the proles. Without the ability to make an informed decision, and reading idle speculation in thousands of SW threads since 2005, it does not allow me to take the conversation seriously.

Then there is the question of will Playstation outlast Xbox which is an entirely different question, and there are a lot of variables to consider there, including Elop's recent statements.

Either way, thread just boils down to yet another thread about company wars.

#24 Edited by tormentos (16798 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

US always bail out those companies and their agriculture to,i live here in Puerto Rico we are part of US,and i dare say 95% or more of what is consume here comes from outside with like 90% coming from US.

They have our economy in ruins,to give you an example,you go to a super market here and you can buy US eggs mostly for $2 dollars docent,those eggs and shipped in refrigerated container by sea,they have to pay to get the containers in the ship,those workers get pay from $30 to $46 dollars an hour,i know i work uploading and downloading containers from ships,they travel here by sea we offload them an we are pay the same,from 30 to 46 dollars an hour,and those eggs cost $2 dollars a docent,you know how much you have to pay for a docent eggs that are lay here in the country by our own chickens,which you only have to pay a truck to ship them to stores.? between $3 and $4.50,the incredible thing is that our island is 100 miles long and 35 miles wide,in a few hours you can get your merchandise from point a to point b across the island.

Is the same with the whole chickens,you pay for US chickens $.79 cents per pound many times $.99 cents,and you want to buy chickens which are grown here which is fresh and doesn't have to travel all those miles in ships it will cost you between $1.30 and $2.00 dollars.

Is the same with pigs,cow meat as well,and some times even vegetables..

#25 Posted by Shewgenja (8351 posts) -

@WadeFan said:

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

E-Mail in fact. But on a serious note. It doesn't take an analyst to see that Sony is struggling mightily while Microsoft is not.

I'm sorry, I must have been in some parallel dimension this past year with all the articles claiming that MSes investors wanted to scrap the XBox division.

#26 Posted by topgunmv (10142 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

IIRC Ford took out a big loan right before the recession hit.

#27 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

Because comments on the 'net are always accurate. Seriously dude....

#28 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

Because comments on the 'net are always accurate. Seriously dude....

@topgunmv said:

@clyde46 said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

IIRC Ford took out a big loan right before the recession hit.

Recall what you want but Ford did not get a government bail out....

#29 Posted by Spitfire-Six (497 posts) -

Microsoft is not going anywhere.

Sony could.

#30 Posted by topgunmv (10142 posts) -

Because comments on the 'net are always accurate. Seriously dude....

@topgunmv said:

@clyde46 said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

IIRC Ford took out a big loan right before the recession hit.

Recall what yo want but Ford did not get a government bail out....

Feel free to point out where I said that.

#31 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

@topgunmv said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

Recall what you want but Ford did not get a government bail out....

Feel free to point out where I said that.

Sure as soon as you feel free to point out where I said you said that mate.

#32 Posted by Blabadon (25687 posts) -

American software company vs Japanese hardware company... hmm...

#33 Posted by lhughey (4222 posts) -

@topgunmv said:

@clyde46 said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@clyde46: The point is Sony and PS isn't going anywhere. What you're implying would require a crystal ball. Also, the last time I checked, the car companies that were bailed out by US are still thriving. Like it or not, Sony isn't going anywhere.

Defensive much. Last time I checked being propped up by the government does not indicate a company is thriving. Pretty sure IIRC Ford is the only US based company that did not need a bail out and even then they had to slash jobs in both the US and the UK.

IIRC Ford took out a big loan right before the recession hit.

Yep. The only reason Ford didn't take a govt bail out is because their terrible financials were enough to give them leverage to cut employee benefits. Simply put, Ford simply failed before the economy caused it for everyone else.

#34 Edited by shawn30 (4364 posts) -

The real question is which of the companies gaming divisions will last the longest. There is no question, zero whatsoever in this world or any other that MS will outlast Sony. Sony could be out of business in 5 years if they don't turn things around. MS could buy Sony if Sony made a price, which they won't for a world of reasons. Japan itself would step in before Sony was sold or went completely under.

MS is worth over 69 billion

Sony 18.6 billion, is selling buildings, canceling games, closing studios, and losing key people left and right, as well as closing Sony stores nationwide to stem off disaster.

#35 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4140 posts) -

in terms of my lifespan, I suspect they'll both last 'forever'

#36 Posted by kingtito (4802 posts) -

Two gens in a row of third place. Those bottomless pockets don't seem to be helping too much.

Wrong super cow, MS finished in 2nd this past gen. Sony finished in 3rd.

You don't have to lie to kick it kid.

#37 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

The real question is which of the companies gaming divisions will last the longest. There is no question, zero whatsoever in this world or any other that MS will outlast Sony. Sony could be out of business in 5 years if they don't turn things around. MS could buy Sony if Sony made a price, which they won't for a world of reasons. Japan itself would step in before Sony was sold or went completely under.

MS is worth over 69 billion

Sony 18.6 billion, is selling buildings, canceling games, closing studios, and losing key people left and right, as well as closing Sony stores nationwide to stem off disaster.

I don't see either company going anywhere though there is some dissatisfaction within MS to divest themselves of the game division. Probably why MS priced the console so high so as to say they will turn a profit quicker. Nonetheless in the last few years MS has had economic woes....laid off employees and closed divisions. That is the nature of business.....

#38 Posted by kingtito (4802 posts) -

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

Not according to Sony's official numbers cow but you go on pretending you know better than they do. You can also pretend Sony didn't combine the PS2 & PS3 sales. Happy pretending cow

#39 Edited by incuensuocha (1509 posts) -

As an overall company MS is in a better position to outlast Sony, but I'm pretty certain that, despite Sony's current financial problems, neither company is going anywhere anytime soon. As far as their roles in gaming, I believe Sony will likely outlast Microsoft. I have no doubt that Sony will continue to be a gaming company after this generation, whether that means a new console or a major expansion of the PS Now concept, they'll be around. I believe that if this generation isn't a MAJOR success for Microsoft though, they'll quickly get outta Dodge.

#40 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

@kingtito said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

Not according to Sony's official numbers cow but you go on pretending you know better than they do. You can also pretend Sony didn't combine the PS2 & PS3 sales. Happy pretending cow

You know PS3 sales alone are either equal to or higher than the 360. Don't cry too much dude....

#41 Posted by mariokart64fan (19348 posts) -

if xbox dont create profit they wont want to continue it over windows, windows is and will always be their priority

#42 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

The real question is which of the companies gaming divisions will last the longest. There is no question, zero whatsoever in this world or any other that MS will outlast Sony. Sony could be out of business in 5 years if they don't turn things around. MS could buy Sony if Sony made a price, which they won't for a world of reasons. Japan itself would step in before Sony was sold or went completely under.

MS is worth over 69 billion

Sony 18.6 billion, is selling buildings, canceling games, closing studios, and losing key people left and right, as well as closing Sony stores nationwide to stem off disaster.

I don't see either company going anywhere though there is some dissatisfaction within MS to divest themselves of the game division. Probably why MS priced the console so high so as to say they will turn a profit quicker. Nonetheless in the last few years MS has had economic woes....laid off employees and closed divisions. That is the nature of business.....

For Microsoft their Enterprise software products are an assets for them. Games have historically been a liability for them.

If they decide to 'focus' (as the new Microsoft phrase is now) its not unlikely that they will drop all consumer divisions and go strong where they are strong.

Sony is another complex business that involves considerably more than just PlayStation however its a business that I am not very knowledgeable in so I am not going to speak much to it.

#43 Posted by kingtito (4802 posts) -

@kingtito said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

Not according to Sony's official numbers cow but you go on pretending you know better than they do. You can also pretend Sony didn't combine the PS2 & PS3 sales. Happy pretending cow

You know PS3 sales alone are either equal to or higher than the 360. Don't cry too much dude....

Well according to Sony's last numbers. Prove me wrong. Sony would have had conferences to announce they passed MS if that truly happened and all you cows know it.

Cows finished in 3rd last gen just accept it and move on.

#44 Posted by Boddicker (2429 posts) -

PS4 will win this gen by a narrow margin, but they are going to lose a lot of money on their VR glasses. Nobody wants to spend $200-300 on a peripheral with limited support.

MS might win just by outlasting Sony.

Sad but true.

#45 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

@kingtito said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@kingtito said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

Not according to Sony's official numbers cow but you go on pretending you know better than they do. You can also pretend Sony didn't combine the PS2 & PS3 sales. Happy pretending cow

You know PS3 sales alone are either equal to or higher than the 360. Don't cry too much dude....

Well according to Sony's last numbers. Prove me wrong. Sony would have had conferences to announce they passed MS if that truly happened and all you cows know it.

Cows finished in 3rd last gen just accept it and move on.

Prove you wrong? So you have no idea what you're talking about since you didn't keep up with sales. Okay then. FYI...not everyone is a "cow". That's a stupid way to assess a comment.

#46 Posted by tonywelch15 (10 posts) -

xb1 got no chance even if they got so much money but right now sony is at the top (sony just released the ps4 and now releaseing a new phone i can't wait for getting as soon as it comes out) sony got better games than xbox alltogether wow xbox got titanfall yeah well were got gran 6 and infamous ss so who's better in the long run sony for sure because everyone use's apple and sony not many people microsoft unless it's a new console

#47 Edited by slim70 (318 posts) -

@Sagemode87 said:

@lamprey263: You do realize PS4 gets cheaper and cheaper for Sony to make right? The Japanese government would bail Sony out before letting them go under. Much like the US bailed out GMC as well as other car companies. Sony is a landmark brand in Japan. Sony will be fine.

The Japanese government can't even bail themselves out of the mess they have with fukushima! Why the fuck would they bail Sony out?

#48 Edited by kingtito (4802 posts) -

@kingtito said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@kingtito said:

@Sagemode87 said:

@TigerSuperman: They were last this past gen, 2nd during 6th gen. PS3 sold more than 360, but continue to pretend it didnt.

Not according to Sony's official numbers cow but you go on pretending you know better than they do. You can also pretend Sony didn't combine the PS2 & PS3 sales. Happy pretending cow

You know PS3 sales alone are either equal to or higher than the 360. Don't cry too much dude....

Well according to Sony's last numbers. Prove me wrong. Sony would have had conferences to announce they passed MS if that truly happened and all you cows know it.

Cows finished in 3rd last gen just accept it and move on.

Prove you wrong? So you have no idea what you're talking about since you didn't keep up with sales. Okay then. FYI...not everyone is a "cow". That's a stupid way to assess a comment.

No kid, YOU didn't keep up. You're going by VGChartz and NOT Sony's OFFICIAL numbers. So again, prove me wrong without using vgchartz.

No, not everyone is a cow but I didn't say everyone was, just those like you that worship Sony.

#49 Posted by AppleFan1991 (3037 posts) -

@WadeFan said:

@SolidTy said:

Where can I sign up to get my armchair analyst degree?

I ask here because I suspect many of you already got your certification in the mail.

E-Mail in fact. But on a serious note. It doesn't take an analyst to see that Sony is struggling mightily while Microsoft is not.

I'm sorry, I must have been in some parallel dimension this past year with all the articles claiming that MSes investors wanted to scrap the XBox division.

Notice I wasn't talking about the Xbox or Playstation. I was talking about Sony and Microsoft as a whole.