Which platform makes the most $ for games, Consoles v PC? Numbers/Charts inside

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]So, as a rough estimate...MMOs alone produce as much money annually as any single console platform? Interesting.Spartan070

Yep, teh ultimate milkage.

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

Holy cow, I just noticed something.

The list of partners for newzoo doesn't include Steam. So valve games, some of the biggest PC selling publisher, and the ton of games NOT published by other partners, but available through Steam aren't even counted in there!

What about Bethesda, are they in there too?

So it mgiht be that, the slice of the pie for PC is at least a bit larger than listed in those numbers.

menes777

It most definitely is larger, only here in this twilight zone known as SW do console gamers honestly believe that consoles lead the way in gaming.

Don't forget the staff at gametrailers.

On console the money is spread across a smaller number of titles (about 500 or so) with $15 billion between them.

PC library is gargantuan, there's literally hundreds of thousands of games.

And out of those hundreds of thousands of games together they made about $14 billion.

Basically Steam and WoW are driving around in Ferraris and everybody else is applying for food stamps.

The way to properly measure is :

Net profits - Development Cost = result

100k games takes alot longer to code than 500 games for approximately the same profit.

PC is for all intents and purposes a dead platform, but there is alot of legacy stuff still making money.

What kills it is basically DRM, Steam and MMO's because you cannot feel like you OWN what you purchase, it's like a long term rental.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"]Misleading numbers are misleading. Where are the numbers from Japan? You just said charts don't tell the whole story. Don't try to change that tune now that you finally found one that favors the PC.DarthBilf

It is the ONLY one available, it is not a retail sales chart, this is a company who produces reports that guide the industry. Not some VGchartz nonsense based only on retail sales. If you can find another company of similar note doing the same thing then feel free to post their reports. They do not produce a report on Japan, presumably because they can't get the numbers for it. If you can find a similarly reliable report then please feel free to post it here.

As has been stated, this companies reports are used by the biggest gaming companies around. This is obviously a reality check for you. That's not really my fault though is it.

edit - I should also add that Gamespot uses Newzoo as they have used graphs/charts in their news articles multiple times.

I've also missed out on South Korea and China, two places where PC gaming is the dominant force. South Korea even have TV stations dedicated to a PC game, Starcraft 2. Japan is a console centric market but that still isn't going to put a significant dent into the HUGE advantage the PC has over any other platform.

As for the NPD, show me some numbers? show me anything other than retail charts? Show me anything at all in fact that disproves the numbers provided by this company who reports to almost ALL the significant games companies, Microsoft, EA etc etc. That's right you can't. These are the numbers the industry goes by, despite your absurd denial, these numbers demonstrate the PC market is vast in comparison to any single console.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"] In sales? They absolutely do. Find ANY recent report that shows PC sales surpassing console sales. Plus, some Valve games like Left 4 Dead sell more copies on the consoles than they do the PC, and I would assume the combined PS3/360 sales of Skyrim beat the PC handily, since the 360 and PC were basically a dead heat for Oblivion. Edit: It seems i was giving the PC too much credit. Todd Howard said 90% of Bethesda's audience is on consoles.DarthBilf

COD also sells a lot more on consoles than it does on the PC. That's irrelevant though. We are talking not about single games, but the games market as a whole. Which platform sells the most games and makes the most money. Quite obviously as a single platform it is the PC by a wide margin. In fact it is almost equal to every single console and handheld combined in 2011. I apprecaite you can't get your head around it, but this was the point of the thread. Alot of people such as yourself are horribly misinformed. I am just correcting that.

Valve and Bethesda games are included, quite obviously, so it is a moot point. As is Steam and everyone else. The whole point of this report is to show the major gaming companies where money is spent. So what on earth is your point? You come across as angry and aggressive, even upset, just because someone has posted a report from a reliable source demonstrating the huge size of the PC gaming market...and you are talking to me about rational debate. Make a rational point backed up with anything other than your own vitriol and we can actually have a debate. Right now all I am doing is babysitting.

On console the money is spread across a smaller number of titles (about 500 or so) with $15 billion between them.

PC library is gargantuan, there's literally hundreds of thousands of games.

And out of those hundreds of thousands of games together they made about $14 billion.

Basically Steam and WoW are driving around in Ferraris and everybody else is applying for food stamps.

The way to properly measure is :

Net profits - Development Cost = result

100k games takes alot longer to code than 500 games for approximately the same profit.

PC is for all intents and purposes a dead platform, but there is alot of legacy stuff still making money.

What kills it is basically DRM, Steam and MMO's because you cannot feel like you OWN what you purchase, it's like a long term rental.

ZombieKiller7

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

Clearly the numbers/charts demonstrate that PC gaming has been on the rise since 2009 and console gaming has been declining. To the point whereby the PC games market is almost the size of the market for every single console/handheld there is. Which by the way includes ALL the old consoles aswell. Even if we remove MMO's from the equation the PC market boxed/download dwarfs any single console market.

I've also missed out on South Korea and China, two places where PC gaming is the dominant force. South Korea even have TV stations dedicated to a PC game, Starcraft 2. Japan is a console centric market but that still isn't going to put a significant dent into the HUGE advantage the PC has over any other platform.

iamrob7

In most of the world nobody pays for PC software.

Not even MMO's.

PC devs have cut their own throats with draconian distribution where pirates get a better gaming experience and have more civil rights than the customers.

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"] Selective reading comprehension ftw. I was responding directly to someone who claimed that since Valve and Bethesda games aren't included, the numbers cited actually underrate PC sales. That is BS, since both those companies make the majority of their sales on consoles in many cases. A lot of people like yourself are so mired in bias that you can't conduct a rational debate. Unfortunately, I don't think I can correct that.DarthBilf

Are you butthurt bro? He left out countries that lean heavily towards PC, too. Sorry that you can't play sales anymore.

"THOSE NUMBERS ARENT TRUE DERP, ITS ALL A LIE, NEWZOO WHOSE JOB IT IS TO REPORT TO MAJOR GAMING COMPANIES ARE MAKING UP THEIR STATISTICS, WAAAA" etc

ok bud.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

I've also missed out on South Korea and China, two places where PC gaming is the dominant force. South Korea even have TV stations dedicated to a PC game, Starcraft 2. Japan is a console centric market but that still isn't going to put a significant dent into the HUGE advantage the PC has over any other platform.

ZombieKiller7

In most of the world nobody pays for PC software.

Not even MMO's.

PC devs have cut their own throats with draconian distribution where pirates get a better gaming experience and have more civil rights than the customers.

I agree, most of the 3rd world don't pay for diddly. Fortunately even without them the PC market is huge, as demonstrated by the numbers.

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

iamrob7

500 games = $15 billion

100k games = $14 billion

You tell me who's doing better financially.

Steam is growing and it's killing off what's left of PC gaming.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

I've also missed out on South Korea and China, two places where PC gaming is the dominant force. South Korea even have TV stations dedicated to a PC game, Starcraft 2. Japan is a console centric market but that still isn't going to put a significant dent into the HUGE advantage the PC has over any other platform.

ZombieKiller7

In most of the world nobody pays for PC software.

Not even MMO's.

PC devs have cut their own throats with draconian distribution where pirates get a better gaming experience and have more civil rights than the customers.

Your last statement is very true,and if a true threat exists to PC gaming,its indeed the draconian DRM that makes things hard for honest consumers,while pirates enjoy the DRM free versions without any restrictions.But still,iamrob7 proved how well PC is doing.The platform may have problems with corporate attempts of maximum control over the games you own,but its simply the road where the entire gaming industry is heading now,so the problem is not exclusive to the PC.Consoles are trying to emulate the PC in many things,both positives and negatives...

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

ZombieKiller7

500 games = $15 billion

100k games = $14 billion

You tell me who's doing better financially.

Steam is growing and it's killing off what's left of PC gaming.

Consoles-500 games with huge budgets that often include excesive ad campaings...

PC-100k games while most of them are indie that are made with very small budgets and no ad campaings.

Steam may have its flaws like Steamworks DRM that can get restrictive and annoying for retail buyers such as myself,but no,its not killing PC gaming.It has many positive sides too,and for most PC gamers,the good outweights the bad easily(but not for me,I would like Steam if it was optional,but it being mandatory makes it another DRM)...

Neither side has a compelling lead.lowe0

What?

PC vs consoles is 1 vs 3 and the 1 is almost tied with the 3... ok...

Also, devs/publishers make more of that money per sale on the PC and even more if that PC sale is digital.

Then think about marketing. PC pulls off these numbers and yet how many people advertise for their PC products? Aside from multiplatform game commercials that actually have 'PC' as the small image at the end of the trailer, there is barely any PC game marketing. How many The Witcher 2 comercials did we see when it was only on PC? Personally, I had never seen one. Now with the 360 version coming out soon, I see trailers for it before half of my Hulu clips (I use ABP on my PC, but on school, friend, and family member's PCs, I see adds everywhere for it. All that money not spent on marketing is yet another gain for PC devs and publishers.

[QUOTE="lowe0"]Neither side has a compelling lead.arto1223

What?

PC vs consoles is 1 vs 3 and the 1 is almost tied with the 3... ok...

Steam may have its flaws like Steamworks DRM that can get restrictive and annoying for retail buyers such as myself,but no,its not killing PC gaming.It has many positive sides too,and for most PC gamers,the good outweights the bad easily(but not for me,I would like Steam if it was optional,but it being mandatory makes it another DRM)...

Rocker6

So what do you do?

Get cracks for most games?

Or only if you are somehow prevented from using your purchase?

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

I've also missed out on South Korea and China, two places where PC gaming is the dominant force. South Korea even have TV stations dedicated to a PC game, Starcraft 2. Japan is a console centric market but that still isn't going to put a significant dent into the HUGE advantage the PC has over any other platform.

In most of the world nobody pays for PC software.

Not even MMO's.

PC devs have cut their own throats with draconian distribution where pirates get a better gaming experience and have more civil rights than the customers.

Neither side has a compelling lead.lowe0

What?

PC vs consoles is 1 vs 3 and the 1 is almost tied with the 3... ok...

Delusion was a great movie.

On console the money is spread across a smaller number of titles (about 500 or so) with $15 billion between them.

PC library is gargantuan, there's literally hundreds of thousands of games.

And out of those hundreds of thousands of games together they made about $14 billion.

Basically Steam and WoW are driving around in Ferraris and everybody else is applying for food stamps.

The way to properly measure is :

Net profits - Development Cost = result

100k games takes alot longer to code than 500 games for approximately the same profit.

PC is for all intents and purposes a dead platform, but there is alot of legacy stuff still making money.

ZombieKiller7

PC is for all intents and purposes a thriving platform, but there is alot of new stuff still making money.

What kills it is basically DRM, Steam and MMO's because you cannot feel like you OWN what you purchase, it's like a long term rental.

ZombieKiller7

Apply this logic with the console hardware i.e. at least Sony is not involved with the removal of a system feature. The consoles has it's own DRM.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

ZombieKiller7

500 games = $15 billion

100k games = $14 billion

You tell me who's doing better financially.

Steam is growing and it's killing off what's left of PC gaming.

Are you actually serious or is this some sort of joke? Do you seriously think all the old PC games are what is accounting for the huge PC market? Get real, the only PC games people are buying are the games they can buy and that is a very limited selection. Let's make an equally ridiculous assumption, console market accounts for every single console back to NES. Presumably 90% of that $15 billion is accounted for by the SNES and NES old game sales every year. Yeah, completely ridiculous isn't it, that's about as rational as your point is.

LOL at Steam is killing PC gaming, one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this forum and that is saying something. Steam has been the foundation of the PC rising over the last couple of years to the point whereby it is dwarfing any individual console market.

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Steam may have its flaws like Steamworks DRM that can get restrictive and annoying for retail buyers such as myself,but no,its not killing PC gaming.It has many positive sides too,and for most PC gamers,the good outweights the bad easily(but not for me,I would like Steam if it was optional,but it being mandatory makes it another DRM)...

ZombieKiller7

So what do you do?

Get cracks for most games?

Or only if you are somehow prevented from using your purchase?

Delusion was a great movie.

ForzaGearsFace

I've never heard of it, but clearly you are a fan. Reach MK2.

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Steam may have its flaws like Steamworks DRM that can get restrictive and annoying for retail buyers such as myself,but no,its not killing PC gaming.It has many positive sides too,and for most PC gamers,the good outweights the bad easily(but not for me,I would like Steam if it was optional,but it being mandatory makes it another DRM)...

ZombieKiller7

So what do you do?

Get cracks for most games?

Or only if you are somehow prevented from using your purchase?

Don't buy what you don't want. UBIsoft are the only people I have a genuine issue with. Their DRM is incredibly stupid and their huge losses last year were well deserved. Fortunately the openness of the PC market will keep things competitive. In the meantime consoles enjoy online passes and the apparent dissolution of used games in future. Nice. Essentially consoles will eventually evolve into streaming boxes that you pay a subscription too. It seems inevitable.

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"][QUOTE="Link3301"]

Are you butthurt bro? He left out countries that lean heavily towards PC, too. Sorry that you can't play sales anymore.

iamrob7

"THOSE NUMBERS ARENT TRUE DERP, ITS ALL A LIE, NEWZOO WHOSE JOB IT IS TO REPORT TO MAJOR GAMING COMPANIES ARE MAKING UP THEIR STATISTICS, WAAAA" etc

ok bud.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

ZombieKiller7

500 games = $15 billion

100k games = $14 billion

You tell me who's doing better financially.

Steam is growing and it's killing off what's left of PC gaming.

500 games for all consoles and handhelds? Seems very very low. And where are you getting 100K games for PC?

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Absolte gibberish. This vast PC library you talk about contains a lot of indie games with small development budgets, alongside older games that are simply turning pure profit now. So what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any numbers to demonstrate that console games generate a greater profit?? No, I thought not.

nunovlopes

500 games = $15 billion

100k games = $14 billion

You tell me who's doing better financially.

Steam is growing and it's killing off what's left of PC gaming.

500 games for all consoles and handhelds? Seems very very low. And where are you getting 100K games for PC?

this sites hermits needs a swift kick in the balls for taking bait from every fukcing troll ever born. and i am a hermit myself. disgusting lack of intelligenceshreshto

lol I know right? It's like they love getting baited. They are by far the easiest faction to anger on these forums, all I took was looking at the reactions loosingends and dontshackzmii (or whatever his name is) was getting to show that.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"] So we agree this is a meaningless and ridiculous discussion, since there is not enough data to determine anything. Sorry if logic goes over your little head.DarthBilf

"THOSE NUMBERS ARENT TRUE DERP, ITS ALL A LIE, NEWZOO WHOSE JOB IT IS TO REPORT TO MAJOR GAMING COMPANIES ARE MAKING UP THEIR STATISTICS, WAAAA" etc

ok bud.

Obviously you either can't read properly or are skipping over the sections of my post that don't suit your sensibilities. As I said before, all other retail sales charts do not take into consideration DD sales. This is an indisputible fact. This report is the only one of its kind that does this. It's validity is backed up by the clients who pay for this report themselves. This I already explained in my post quite clearly. I even provided a list of the major clients who use this report. That's my case for it's relevance.

The numbers aren't skewed, do you even understand the words you are using? I said quite specifically this is a report based on 6 regions, not the whole world, not the milky way galaxy and not Africa. That's exactly what it is, that is exactly what the numbers demonstrate. You can clearly offer no argument whatsoever against that. The numbers are broken down into regions because that is how companies like to deal with those numbers.

As far as I can see you have no counter-argument at all. You just seem to swear at the beginning of each post, ramble on largely incoherently and offer nothing but "I don't agree with these numbers, I don't agree with these numbers being added up the way you have done" with absoutely NO rational argument to back yourself up. When you actually come up with one, please let me know.

this sites hermits needs a swift kick in the balls for taking bait from every fukcing troll ever born. and i am a hermit myself. disgusting lack of intelligenceshreshto

Nice ALT account consolite and nice non-argument. I provide a link to the site, a client list including Microsoft, EA, gamestop etc, the charts themselves, the numbers themselves...overwhelming evidence and clarity. The response, "IT'S NOT TRUE" - With no counter argument whatsoever. Denial is just denial, it isn't an argument, you understand that right? Impressive.

NEWZOO charts, you understand these aren't ever right, don't you?

(of course you do, but they say what you want others to believe)

..and 99% of GS's formites own a PC.. surprise.. surprise.. :|

NEWZOO charts, you understand these aren't ever right, don't you?

(of course you do, but they say what you want others to believe)

fadersdream

Do you have anything to back up that argument? Anything at all? Any kind of hard evidence that they "aren't ever right"?

If not I think I'll trust the reports of a company trusted by Microsoft, EA, Zynga, Gamestop etc etc, rather than some random character on the GS forums. That makes sense to you right?

Yep,this thread is taking the same direction as most threads including numbers:

Fanboys like the numbers presented:"Yah,its teh most credible site on teh Internetz"

Fanboys don't like the numbers presented:"That source sukz,no credibility,buh buh"

Yep,this thread is taking the same direction as most threads including numbers:

Fanboys like the numbers presented:"Yah,its teh most credible site on teh Internetz"

Fanboys don't like the numbers presented:"That source sukz,no credibility,buh buh"

Rocker6

Indeed, it reminds me of this line from Blackadder;

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."

Yep,this thread is taking the same direction as most threads including numbers:

Fanboys like the numbers presented:"Yah,its teh most credible site on teh Internetz"

Fanboys don't like the numbers presented:"That source sukz,no credibility,buh buh"

Rocker6

Concolites are masters of logical falcies. They can come up with one on the spot, every time.

Here you show us an example of the classic false equivalency falacy. When a d-bag conslite tries to pass off some nonsense as being the same as well thought out, reasoned stance.

These statistics are used by some of the heavy hitters of the industry to drive business decisions.... And some people argue is that we only like them because they portray the PC market favorably vs KNOW DEFICIENT markers such as VG chartz which have NO STANDING whatever in terms of market leaders paying it any attention.

[QUOTE="fadersdream"]

NEWZOO charts, you understand these aren't ever right, don't you?

(of course you do, but they say what you want others to believe)

iamrob7

Do you have anything to back up that argument? Anything at all? Any kind of hard evidence that they "aren't ever right"?

If not I think I'll trust the reports of a company trusted by Microsoft, EA, Zynga, Gamestop etc etc, rather than some random character on the GS forums. That makes sense to you right?

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="fadersdream"]

NEWZOO charts, you understand these aren't ever right, don't you?

(of course you do, but they say what you want others to believe)

fadersdream

Do you have anything to back up that argument? Anything at all? Any kind of hard evidence that they "aren't ever right"?

If not I think I'll trust the reports of a company trusted by Microsoft, EA, Zynga, Gamestop etc etc, rather than some random character on the GS forums. That makes sense to you right?

Lol! Look at the butt-hurt consolite talk about bias. The irony also apparently goes right over his little consolite-fanboy head.

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

An this kids is why so many developers are on the pc.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="fadersdream"]

NEWZOO charts, you understand these aren't ever right, don't you?

(of course you do, but they say what you want others to believe)

fadersdream

Do you have anything to back up that argument? Anything at all? Any kind of hard evidence that they "aren't ever right"?

If not I think I'll trust the reports of a company trusted by Microsoft, EA, Zynga, Gamestop etc etc, rather than some random character on the GS forums. That makes sense to you right?

LOL, so the answer is no then...you can't provide anything whatsoever to back up your "ITS NOT TRUE".

You make a lot of wild claims, none of which you back up with anything whatsoever. Did you know that your brain is mostly made of potato? Want evidence? Na...why would I provide any?...

...well because that is how you debate as an adult, otherwise you come across as an stroppy infant who denies the situation simply because he can't face it. That's your choice though, dignity isn't for everyone.

[QUOTE="DarthBilf"][QUOTE="iamrob7"]

"THOSE NUMBERS ARENT TRUE DERP, ITS ALL A LIE, NEWZOO WHOSE JOB IT IS TO REPORT TO MAJOR GAMING COMPANIES ARE MAKING UP THEIR STATISTICS, WAAAA" etc

ok bud.

iamrob7

Obviously you either can't read properly or are skipping over the sections of my post that don't suit your sensibilities. As I said before, all other retail sales charts do not take into consideration DD sales. This is an indisputible fact. This report is the only one of its kind that does this. It's validity is backed up by the clients who pay for this report themselves. This I already explained in my post quite clearly. I even provided a list of the major clients who use this report. That's my case for it's relevance.

The numbers aren't skewed, do you even understand the words you are using? I said quite specifically this is a report based on 6 regions, not the whole world, not the milky way galaxy and not Africa. That's exactly what it is, that is exactly what the numbers demonstrate. You can clearly offer no argument whatsoever against that. The numbers are broken down into regions because that is how companies like to deal with those numbers.

As far as I can see you have no counter-argument at all. You just seem to swear at the beginning of each post, ramble on largely incoherently and offer nothing but "I don't agree with these numbers, I don't agree with these numbers being added up the way you have done" with absoutely NO rational argument to back yourself up. When you actually come up with one, please let me know.

I'm reduced to swearing because you are just so unbelievably dense that it actually kind of upsets me. I'm 90% sure you are trolling at this point, but until I am 100% sure I'm going to keep on fighting this.

If you had actually done what you said you had done in this post in the OP, I would have no problem. None. Present the data as a regional analysis of gaming revenue, and leave it at that. However, that doesn't fit your agenda. Instead, you arbitrarily select six countries from the report (by the way, NOT the six biggest gaming markets) and present solely their data. Okay, a little shady, but the numbers are still legitimate. Then, either out of ignorance or maliciousness, you combined the six arbitrarily selected countries to create a dramatic GRAND TOTAL.

skew (v): To give a bias to; distort.

Do I need go further? You arbitrarily picked six countries, combined their regional numbers, and declared a worldwide total of console and PC revenue. If you can't see how that is an example of "giving a bias to, distorting", then I will finally know that you really are just a troll.

[QUOTE="Spartan070"]

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

An this kids is why so many developers are on the pc.

blue_hazy_basic

ok ill pretend, PC GAMING is # 1 in sales, software sales cause DD arent counted right, and most popular.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Spartan070"] Yes but the biggest profits are also made on consoles. MS and Bungie spent hundreds of millions on Halo and it's marketing, most of the time they make it all back in, you know, 16 hours or so after launch.

Spartan070

You can also just change your avy picture,for example,have a Kool-Aid bottle as your avy for a month,would go very well with your Halo sig :P

Consolers get over it.....

PC can't lose.

Get over it consolites the future belongs to us :twisted: