What's the excuse for 3rd parties skipping Wii U again?

there are perfectly good reasons for 3rd parties to drop wiiu support.

at the end of the day everyone is partly to blame for this.

nintendo: they didnt make the hardware and platform 3rd parties were looking for. 3rd parties want a platform where they can reuse as much tech/assets etc. as possible and they want as little hassle as possible in delivering services and addon content to the user. on both counts nintendo does not deliver. the wiiu has very little in common with the PS4 and X1 and would require a lot more time and resources to port games over. online wise nintendo are around 10 years off the pace. so 3rd parties are at a disadvantage in making games for the wiiu...the wiiu version is going to suffer in one way or another for most games.

third party developers/publishers: as i say above, 3rd parties just cant help some of the problems they are going to have on the wiiu. the online is going to suffer in some way. the graphics, compared to their PS4, X1 and PC counterparts, are also going to suffer. nothing 3rd parties can do. however 3rd parties also seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot. the classic example: wiiu got mass effect 3 at launch. it was a full priced title at launch. very soon afterwads they announced the ME trilogy for every platform for a lot less money....except for the wiiu. i mean they may as well just not have bothered. why would anyone pick up the wiiu version when they could pay less and get 3 games in one?

nintendos customers: given the two above its understandable why nintendos customers are reluctant to pick up 3rd party games (especially multiplats). one way or another they are going to get burned. however even when a 3rd party puts in a genuine effort to deliver a great game AND delivers a great game.....it sells bupkis. i dont think red steel 2 managed to breach even 100,000 and thats a dam fine game. i know the first was rough (though credit where its due...ubisoft were trying) but RS2 is brilliant. it delivers on what they tried to do with the first. sold nothing. bayonetta 2, more that one perfect score and many rave reviews. published by nintendo themselves. nada. okami (and this should have done much better on nintendos consoles...it can give zelda a run for its money and is excellent)....zilch. sure it was a port but a dam fine port of an excellent game. ubisoft are right...nintendos customers seem to be more interested in just dance and the like. nothing else 3rd party sells.

so it just comes down to 3rd parties making a half hearted attempt on a platform not suited to 3rd party requirements, and delivering the content to a segment to the market that is either indifferent or hostile to it. whats the point in anyone getting invovled in that mess?

@pikachudude860: I wish somebody would post a definitive report on this. It doesn't matter what the install base is, third party games simply do not sell on Nintendo hardware. The biggest third party games of the year (COD, Assassin's Creed, etc) can't crack a million copies sold. It's not the install base, it's the dollars. Companies are barely breaking even, if even that. Most stand to lose money. Bam, end of story.

Can we stop talking about this now? There's other cool things to discuss.

Well, considering all the shit that happened between Nintendo and third parties EVER since the SNES era, YES! Trip Hawkins, co-founder of EA, admitted his hatred for Nintendo. The Night Trap devs admitted they wouldn't support Nintendo after how Howard Lincoln refused to see that game on the SNES.

http://www.learn-english-online.org/

Please.

As people probably know, I prefer physical non DRM copies (sell/gift/trade/lend/borrow/collect/rent/etc) of console games. I use my PCs for exclusives.

I learned from the N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U to buy exclusives on my Nintendo home consoles. That's a lesson Nintendo has had decades to teach me and consumers like me (as well as publishers).

I buy Nintendo exclusives for my Wii U and avoid inferior multiplats (physical non-DRM console multiplats are better on pretty much every other console) for the most part unless I come across a tremendous sale:

Many WiiU users own more platforms

@wolverine4262: Weren't there quite a few 3rd party games on Wii U around launch? I'm assuming those games sold like crap...Because the majority of them were already on PS3 and Xbox 360 months before. (Just like Watch_Dogs.) All of the exclusive 3rd party games sold like crap because nobody marketed them. It's Nintendo's fault for not pushing their 3rd party exclusives like Bayo 2 harder, but Ubisoft not pushing Zombi U isn't Nintendo's fault.

@nintendoboy16: I dont think you understand how business works. Like I already said, its about profit. If there is no profit, then they wont go there. And, its up to ninty to repair those relationships. They clearly think they dont need 3rd parties.

If you really think third parties wont go to ninty because they dont like them then I dont know what to tell you. Business isnt petty highschool crap.

@pikachudude860: Yeah, Ubi was there at launch. Ninty is partly responsible for not marketing those games as well. Often third party exclusives get a lot of attention from the console manufacture. Frankly though, if the games were better, they may have been better received.

@SolidTy: Woah. Nice collection. =)

Hypothetically, If Nintendo DID have 3rd party multiplats that match, if not surpass, Sony and Microsoft's multiplats, (Were not inferior versions), would you buy them? Would you at least think about buying them?

Maybe they dislike them because of their business practices that date, like I said, even back to the SNES (and to add since I forgot the first time, the NES) era? Again, see what Trip Hawkins and what the Night Trap devs said.

There are a couple of reasons IMO why 3rd parties are not bringing games to the wii u

1. Poor sales

2. Poor hardware

3. Poor online gaming support

4. Gimmick tablet controller

5. History = From back in the N64 days Nintendo has made it quite clear that they don't really care about 3rd party support.

Just look at the wii u sales vs the ps4/x1 and it's is cheaper (wii u) and had a year head start. The wii u is 2 years old and I think they just passed 8 million units or so I hear. The only reason to buy a wii u is unless you must have a couple of exclusives. If they can drop the price to 199 or below that should increase sales but that won't fix the problems that NOJ has just mask them. IMO the wii u is a dead platform with maybe 2 years left in it before NOJ pulls the plug. In 2017 I fully expect to hear news on a new console from Nintendo. The question is will NOJ address the problems that killed the wii u??

1. Upgrade the online gaming network and make it standard on all games plus include a headset in the box.

2. Include a hard drive and make it big.

3. Include blu-ray playback as standard and have DLNA support.

4. Have 1080p 60fps as standard ie be stronger than the ps4

5. For me I would like NOJ to actually ask 3rd parties what they want and make it happen.

6. I personally want 4k video and wireless AC as standard they have been on the market for years and should be included for any next gen console.

7. Nintendo needs new ip's not based on old shit or made for kids. Contrary to popular belief at NOJ they are not Peter Pan it's time to grow up like most of the sheep did.

8. Let NOA call the shots on games in the states not NOJ who has no clue about what Yanks want.

9. For the love of GOD pick ONE controller and stick with it.

10. Personally I would love too see MOD support and a strong streaming base like roku/xbmc. So even when I am not playing games I have plenty of content to watch and listen to.

IMO if they did this with good marketing and a price of 350 bucks their next console would be very competitive.

@nintendoboy16:
If Ninty has business practices that turn away third parties, then again thats their fault and they need to change. Two random people saying they dont like Ninty is not going to be what decides for the entire industry.

Third parties definitely dont need NInty. Its ninty that needs to reach out if they what those games.

Does it help to know that one of those people contributed to the industry in a big way by founding what is still currently one of the hugest companies? Even if Nintendo changed (and some cases, they have since the SNES), devs still wouldn't bite. The scars are too big to mend.

NOJ acts like they control the industry they march to their own drum. It's like talking to a retard. You say the same things over and over but they don't understand what your taking about even when they get whipped. Even cutting pay seems to have little impact on the idiots running NOJ.

@wolverine4262: Well...I can agree with that. After all, the main games Sony and Microsoft showed off at last years E3 were multiplats. Heck, that's almost all they ever show off. I guess 3rd parties expect console manufactures to market the games for them...Which is sad.

I wish a company didn't have to rely on other conpanies just to make THEIR product successful.

Ok...Why don't they? Why can't they? Why? Why? WHY?!! WHY?!! lol.

As a Nintendo gamer myself, let's look at it this way.

"I have enough money to buy two $60 games. I have a Wii U. I want to buy games for my Wii U. I see Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, and Call of Duty. I can only buy two of the three. Which am I going to buy? Maybe Mario Kart and Call of Duty? Oh, what's that? Call of Duty has already been out for a few months? Well that's fine, I can still- And it's cheaper on other platforms? Well...maybe I'll still- And the Wii U version is missing features and DLC?!! Screw that. I'll buy Smash Bros....What??? Other 3rd party games are kinda like that too? Well screw them. I'll just buy all of Nintendo's massive lineup of quality 1st party exclusives..."

PS4 and Xbox One only gamers don't have that option. Nintendo only gamers do.

In the end, if you can afford it, it's best to own ALL platforms and enjoy everything...Thank you. Let's all just enjoy gaming. =P

@nintendoboy16: Does he make all the decisions for EA now? No? Okay, then it irrelevant.

Clearly, you see Ninty as the victim. You really couldnt be further from the truth. Like I said, business is about profit, and third parties dont need Ninty to make a profit.

Im done with this discussion. No point in continuing.

End the discussion if you will, but I never once said or felt they were the victim (even I've mentioned their bad practices). Business may be about profit, but don't say it never gets personal.

@no-scope-AK47: You arent completely wrong. I wouldnt have said it like that. Reminds me when some developers were asking about online features for the system. basic stuff the PS3 and 360 had. The ninty devs had no idea what they were talking about. Its like they live in a bubble.

@pikachudude860:
If Im not mistaken thats usually part of the deal with third party exclusivity. We put it on your system and take a loss of potential sales if you market it well.

Biz is seldom personal. NOJ were assholes back in the nes/snes days but 3rd parties made money so they sucked it up.

But they're not.

Did you miss my point about having to massively downgrade and maybe even re-write the game for the Wii U? Last gen multiplats, sure, but going forward this gen, it'll take alot of money, time and effort to port to the Wii U than to pc, ps4 or xb1.

And why should publishers have to integrate Mii and make Nintendo related content just to sell on the Wii U? With the other 3, they just make the game and release it. Yeah, some games have ps4/xb1 exclusive life time dlc, but even that's rare. It's mostly timed.

Studios should not have to do all that work just to sell their games on Nintendo's console. Not when 3 other platforms exist right there.

The issue comes dow to, even if they did it, there's no guarantee it would sell that much anyway.

If Nintendo wants third parties, they need to release a console powerfull enough to match the others in the same generation.

Has for me, i like Ninty for their games and unique way to development. Aslong has i can have it, aswell has BC and free online, i'm good.

You can bypass DRM on PC dude.

Mainly the Japanese ones. Considering SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive's reputation in Japan was considered a joke in contrast to North America and Europe, where else would they have gone? Western ones if I recall enjoyed what they got from SEGA and PC WAY more than they did the SNES.

How often must Sony kick Nintendo's ass before they catch on. Even MS is doing a copy and paste of the Sony way on the x1. Hell MS even added a price cut and features missing on the ps4. Nintendo just seems not to get it. Their press release seems to be we have exclusives end of story.

@no-scope-AK47: Dude, the PS4 is basically an Xbox 360.

@no-scope-AK47: I think that Nintendo, at this point, is just trying to sell their games. Not try to catch up to the PS4 and Xbox One. (How could they?) With a near 10 million user install base, they can still make plenty of money off of software.

And in come the "Nintendo should be third party" begging. Ugh...

Nintendo's mostly to blame for many reasons that have been beaten to death before, but third parties dug the hole for themselves as well.

EA ditched the Wii U after like what five months after release? Heck, maybe earlier, I think one reason they were mad though, was due to Nintendo giving them the thumbs down on Origin on Wii U. Only games they released on the Wii U were games that had released on all other platforms months ago like Mass Effect 3, Need for Speed Most Wanted, FIFA 13, and Madden NFL 13. That's barely giving it a chance, and unfortunately EA holds dominion over many desired IPs by lots of gamers.

Activision gave mostly shovelware games like Spongebob, Transformers, Walking Dead; Survival Instinct, etc. The only game they gave that would give broad appeal is Call of Duty which they stopped supporting us with as well and took things the other versions got out of the Wii U version. Only series of games they're giving us now is Skylanders because, that actually sells well on Nintendo consoles.

Warner Bros. cut online mode from Batman: Arkham Origins, though they did cut the price by $10 which I commend, but still killing any reason for people to get the inferior version.

Ubisoft while being the most supportive of all other devs, they delayed the Wii U version or cut features from most of their games. Splinter Cell: Blacklist, lack of local co-op mode, $60 still. Watch Dogs, delayed months after the other platforms got it. Rayman Legends, while good for other platforms, was supposed to be a Wii U exclusive and due to the delay, it was made a multi-plat which hurt the Wii U's launch line-up and the sales of its versions, which if I recall correctly sold the best on the Wii U regardless, which isn't saying much.

Again, mostly Nintendo's fault, but third parties still made the Wii U version of their games suffer in sales due to stupid tactics and in turn made the Wii U version of games which are already inferior to the Xbox One, PS4, and PC due to hardware, even more inferior then they should have been.

No how can you say that. I bought a rrod 360 and the new slim 360 basically ripped all the ps3 features besides the blu-ray player. Even if true Sony listened to the market and made the console that people wanted. It would be great if Nintendo had 3rd party support with all the exclusives. Even if the graphics were not as good I think the wii u would still sell.

I agree with you. Your right. That's why Nintendo NEEDS to get everything together next generation. Everything you say is true. However, even IF Nintendo had that powerful console, if 3rd parties act like the Nintendo console versions don't exist, (Fail to market them and/or make crappy ports), then those games won't sell.

If the games don't sell, then 3rd party support will decline. If 3rd parties don't put enough effort into making great ports for Nintendo consoles like they do on Sony/Microsoft consoles, then it doesn't matter if a Nintendo console is 10X as powerful as a high end PC, the games won't sell. 3rd party support will always be crappy...Nintendo needs to prevent this somehow.

If a 1st party company goes 3rd party, then they've failed as a company. i'd still buy their games, but it wouldn't be the same....

I wouldn't. Even with an XBOX 360 (don't own a One), PS2 (don't own a PS3 or PS4), and PC (I opened a Steam account a few days ago) I'm pulling out from buying newer Nintendo games and stick to their past stuff.

@nintendoboy16: Out of curiosity, why? You don't care for their current line-up?

I'll admit, the older games felt...special. But then again, so did almost every game. Games these days feel too...PC-ish. Games back then didn't feel like they were made on a computer. They felt uniqe. Especially the PS1 and N64.

Some of those just can't run on Wii U. Rocksteady already said that the Wii U can't do the bat mobile the way they want and I'm pretty sure the system would choke to death on The Witcher 3. Everything cross-gen should be on the system, but whatever. I've given up on seeing 3rd parties on the system in a meaningful way. It's always something. Nintendo needs to get it right with their next platform.

No, I like the current line-up, but it's just when they do something like that where I'll be instantly done with supporting them. I don't want to be there for their fate for when they do (and I have nothing, but negative thoughts on that which is a long story as is).

@pikachudude860: I agree that it's a bummer. Nintendo's third party offerings at launch were pretty solid on the Wii U, but the returns on those pretty much sealed the deal. There can be an endless chicken-or-egg debate in regards to whether people don't buy third party games on Wii U because they're lacking features or they're lacking features because people don't buy third party games on the Wii U, but on launch day, the Wii U had 1:1 versions of the year's two biggest games (AC III and Black Ops II), and even with the sales spike of a brand new console releasing and the impulse buying that follows, I believe COD didn't make it to 600,000 copies sold.

Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Nintendo is to blame. Pika, you come out with this question every so often, people give you the same responses, yet you don't seem to get it or just don't wish to acknowledge it. Even Nintendo has come out numerous times and expressed their feelings on third parties. Yamauchi once referred to them as "garbage companies" (his past monopolistic behavior is indicative of his contempt) and said he did not believe in creating a product that offers the same software. Iwata said not too far back, nigh verbatim, "Nintendo does not believe in strong third party support". Developers like Bethesda have come out and expressed dissatisfaction on how Nintendo designs its hardware with other developers in mind. There was an article on Eurogamer about a third party testifying what a hassle it was trying to get even the simplest of technical support developing one title.

There is abundant evidence, both from within the developmental community and Nintendo themselves, that demonstrate perfectly clearly as to why third parties struggle. Do you honestly believe that every third party holds some type of grudge? That they don't wish to make a profit if possible? That it's a grand conspiracy? This is a business, these companies ultimately want to make money above all else, and it's obvious Nintendo is not doing anything right to make selling wares on their systems a viable one, of which I believe has been borne and bred out of longstanding culturally ingrained philosophical dogmatism and extreme arrogance.

Add to all of that the fact that the U is performing worse than any system they've ever released (sans one), the user-base is small and audience strictly Nintendo focused, they suffer an image problem, the online lacks, the hardware is underpowered and architecture unique which is not conducive to cost effective ports, and consumer momentum dead (all of these are on the shoulders of NINTENDO's decisions, no one else's). I don't blame third parties. At all. They don't owe Nintendo a damn thing when it comes to the dollar. In fact, I consider any third party game on the Wii U to be a move of extreme good faith. Apparently working with Nintendo (at least from past history and everything out there still evidencing as much) is a nightmare, and once that's done these publishers still have to look at sales numbers which show little, if any payoff for the effort.

So you tell me: why do you see it as a smart business move to put out games on Nintendo's machines? Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually curious as to any benefit you can think of. Look at it from a business perspective, and not a consumer. If you were a investor that was putting millions of dollars at stake, why would you bother?

@MirkoS77

@deadline-zero0 said:

@SolidTy said:

As people probably know, I prefer physical non DRM copies (sell/gift/trade/lend/borrow/collect/rent/etc) of console games. I use my PCs for exclusives.

I learned from the N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U to buy exclusives on my Nintendo home consoles. That's a lesson Nintendo has had decades to teach me and consumers like me (as well as publishers).

I buy Nintendo exclusives for my Wii U and avoid inferior multiplats (physical non-DRM console multiplats are better on pretty much every other console) for the most part unless I come across a tremendous sale:

You can bypass DRM on PC dude.

No you can not in ALL the ways I laid out above unless I'm to start breaking the law, but you can do bypasses around some of it. I'm not here to compromise when I don't have to. As a gaming historian and collector, not in the ways that I prefer which his covered above "I prefer physical non DRM copies (sell/gift/trade/lend/borrow/collect/rent/etc) of console games." It's covered right there. Bypassing DRM is hassle and still won't alleviate my concerns mentioned and underlined above. ALL OF THOSE CONCERNS, not part of them.

Consumer ownership and what I can do with my games is VERY significant to me.

I have this conversation every few weeks, it's tiresome. There is no collector's value market for my Starcraft II Wings of Liberty or SC2: Heart of the Swarm boxes for instance (I have hundreds of PC games and I've been a PC gamer since shareware Wolfenstein 3D / Doom 1), but there is a collector's market for my Starcraft N64. Not to mention, being able to give my old games away. My steam library is stuck to my account. I can't resell individual games or give games away to friends as easily as I can with physical nonDRM console copies of my games. You should already know this so there was no need to quote me. There are illegal things you can do, which I don't condone, and I'm not going to bother with. I'm a social person and social gamer. Being able to FREELY (no internet required) sell/gift/trade/lend/borrow/collect/rent/etc is crucial to me. The reason I avoid digital games is the same reason I don't collect digital baseball/basketball/football cards, digital movies, or digital comics. When and if there is no other alternative, I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Until then, I'm good.

People that live differently have different priorities. I don't share your lifestyle (I don't know how many cars you own or where you live as you don't know mine), but I do have four gaming PCs. I'm well aware of what I can do with my PCs and I've probably been PC gaming longer than many here in SW.

I had this conversation yesterday and I've been having it in SW for the better part of a decade. It's always the same conversation but with different users. They know the answer about ownership and DRM before they quote me but they seem to want to know if I know the answer. Anyone that games on PC knows the DRM answer. Eh, it's old and very redundant. If you want more insight just read yesterdays thread where I answered in the same way I've been answering for YEARS in HERE (LINKY): http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/has-steam-changed-the-way-you-spend-your-money-31796302/

@SolidTy said:

As people probably know, I prefer physical non DRM copies (sell/gift/trade/lend/borrow/collect/rent/etc) of console games. I use my PCs for exclusives.

I learned from the N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U to buy exclusives on my Nintendo home consoles. That's a lesson Nintendo has had decades to teach me and consumers like me (as well as publishers).

I buy Nintendo exclusives for my Wii U and avoid inferior multiplats (physical non-DRM console multiplats are better on pretty much every other console) for the most part unless I come across a tremendous sale:

Thank you for the compliment to my collection. :)

To answer your hypothetical:

If Nintendo presented 3rd party multiplats that surpassed the PS/Xbox offerings, I would buy the best version (barring any late superior ports that get announced later). I would definitely consider buying the Nintendo version and I always have considered it. I want the best version of whatever game I'm buying. It's the same $60 bucks, I may as well get the best software I can get for the same $60.

It's not about the companies, I buy all the machines at launches and just buy the best versions of games I want...and that's where Nintendo fails. Luckily, Nintendo have a great 1st party that keeps in involved with their machine 2-5 times a year.

I buy the machines and just wait for the games to come. Cherry pick the best multiplat version, move on to the next multiplat. It's that simple for me.

That said, I've noticed a pattern since 1996's N64 till now (2015) about 3rd party games and Nintendo consoles that is hard to ignore.

lol I encourage Nintendo to use my ideas on a daily basis. I also told them that the Nintendo ID was the way to start unifying 3DS and Wii U systems and they did that. I told them that we needed Captain Toad and that happened with surprising sales. Now they need to use my idea to make a Sim City style game where you use Toads to build your own mushroom kingdom and I'll be content. Either that or a game where you play a rogue vigilante Toad who is fighting corruption in the Mushroom Kingdom. It will be written by the team behind Adventure Time. And it will be called Watchtoads.

PC-ish consolites should be so lucky. Pc sets the bar. All console has is exclusives and even there PC has more much more.

Same as it's been for the last 3 gens.

Owners only buy first party titles.

Can the wii u run a 720p30fps variation of 1080p60fps game from ps4/x1? In a technical manner

There is really no excuse for third-parties to to skip the Wii U with the exception of sales.

Hardware Power

Not selling as well

Nintendo themselves

sales, also Nintendo doesn't care whether 3rd party games sell well on their system (they say they do but their action says otherwise)...MS & Sony adverts also advertise 3rd parties games...Nintendo adverts - majority of the time is 1st party titles & on the very, very rare occasion 2nd party exclusives/exclusive..usually its Mario, Mario kart, Zelda,.. :P

@SolidTy: Dude, i have no idea why you went off on me like that. I was trying to tell you that DRM isn't really an issue on PC since you can bypass it.

I can't speak for the collectors market, so i won't, but i can imagine that has consoles move to digital aswell, it won't be requre to seek out older ohysical copies to play games.

What iw as trying to tell you was about ownership and th ability to trade and sell pc games, which you can (well, the selling part gets abit tricky since it's cracked copy).

*posted to early, eh*

On PC, you can either download pirated copies or simply a crack to remove the mandatory connection for activation. Most PC games still get physical releases, so you buy a normal copy, crack it during install and poof, it's yours.

Has a reverse option, you can buy digital, download and install the game, and then crack it. r just torrent a a drm free version like me.

I value ownership of games has well my friend. However, the PC platform is the best one for it.

On consoles, if you buy a physical copy and lose, break it, etc, it's gone and there's no way to recover it.

On PC, i can have a digital, easy to access library, and a DRM free physical copy. However, i can make infinite copies of the game and sotre it in multiple ways. Burn it into a CD and amke a normal case out of it, store it in pen drives, external hard drives, etc.

I can sell, trade and lend it to other people just fine. Like i said, the collectors market is one i probably have to give you point. Oh and multiplayer, since cracked games can't pay on the official servers. So 2 points, but, if multiplayer gets shut down on consoles, that's gone too.

An there's also the matter of digital only titles on consoles. You can't own them. I believe Grim Fandango is dd only on Playstation. Could be wrong. Regardless, on PC, you can do all that and gain ownership of the title.

I mean, yeah, it's illegal, but only because more than a decade ago, has the digital age started rising and piracy became more common, activation codes started being used on pc and the practice never went away. In reality, it doesn't stop anything and only punishes the consumer, so it's not moraly wrong in any way, assuming you bought the game and aren't playing it while lending it.

So, that's 2 cents. Hope there's no issue with that.

I'm not trying to convert you to PC gaming btw. I just see you comment on DRM every single time so i just wanted to point out that's not really this massive issue and that in fact it can be worse on consoles nowadays.

If it still doesn't meet your parameters, no problem.

If I remember correctly, they had that whole big thing with EA saying that they did work with third parties designing some things. I'm just saying, we don't actually know what happens behind the curtain, so saying that they don't design things with third parties in mind is just speculation.

To answer the question of the thread: third party games don't sell very well on Nintendo platforms, and given the low install base of the Wii U, they'd sell even worse.

@deadline-zero0: I want to clear something with you that wasn't evident in my post and that is I wasn't going off on you. Sorry my post came off in such a manner to give you that impression. I do believe having a similar discussion a day earlier contributed to my more direct approach.

Regarding cracking a game? It's not something I do, and I've known about it for years, but I certainly see the advantage. It's not going to help my collector's market value (which was one of my points), but I see what you mean now that you were more specific.

Yes, it's a morally gray area...and it really shouldn't be. Especially when you already bought the game you should be able to crack away. Anyways, have a good one. :)