Wall St. Journal: 'Playing the FOOL' How Sony helped pay for 360 development.

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Dreams-Visions

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#1 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts

Playing the Fool
How Sony inadvertently helped a competitor and lost position in the videogame market.

Like dynasties rising and falling, videogame systems enjoy periods of ascendancy and popular support, only to be thrust aside by a new and conquering power. First came Magnavox Odyssey (in the 1970s), then Atari consoles, then Nintendo, which dominated the market for the better part of the 1980s. In the early 1990s, Nintendo's Super NES and Sega Genesis battled each other for supremacy. Each found enough competitive room to lay the groundwork for the modern videogame console, which has become something like a dedicated personal computer.

It was in the mid-1990s that Sony dropped Playstation into the console market -- a graphics powerhouse that featured games for adults as well as for kids. Playstation was a huge success, selling more than 100 million units. Its 2000 sequel, the Playstation 2, was an even bigger one.

For the system's ambitious third iteration, though, Sony wanted an entirely new processing architecture. Most computer processing chips are built on the foundations of the chips that are already in use. Designing a new chip from the ground up is a costly and time-intensive process. So in 2001 Sony partnered with Toshiba and IBM to create the so-called Cell processor -- a chip so powerful that it would redefine PC-scale power.

David Shippy, as it happens, was in charge of designing the brains of the Cell, the processing core. In "The Race for a New Game Machine," he and his co-worker Mickie Phipps tell the story of the whole effort to build the Cell. They also describe how the project went off the rails, ending up with IBM engineers creating the processing chips for two rival videogame consoles and, along the way, delivering to Sony Corp. one of its greatest business failures.

When the companies entered into their partnership in 2001, Sony, Toshiba and IBM committed themselves to spending $400 million over five years to design the Cell, not counting the millions of dollars it would take to build two production facilities for making the chip itself. IBM provided the bulk of the manpower, with the design team headquartered at its Austin, Texas, offices. Sony and Toshiba sent teams of engineers to Austin to live and work with their partners in an effort to have the Cell ready for the Playstation 3's target launch, Christmas 2005.

But a funny thing happened along the way: A new "partner" entered the picture. In late 2002, Microsoft approached IBM about making the chip for Microsoft's rival game console, the (as yet unnamed) Xbox 360. In 2003, IBM's Adam Bennett showed Microsoft specs for the still-in-development Cell core. Microsoft was interested and contracted with IBM for their own chip, to be built around the core that IBM was still building with Sony.

All three of the original partners had agreed that IBM would eventually sell the Cell to other clients. But it does not seem to have occurred to Sony that IBM would sell key parts of the Cell before it was complete and to Sony's primary videogame-console competitor. The result was that Sony's R&D money was spent creating a component for Microsoft to use against it.

Mr. Shippy and Ms. Phipps detail the resulting absurdity: IBM employees hiding their work from Sony and Toshiba engineers in the cubicles next to them; the Xbox chip being tested a few floors above the Cell design teams. Mr. Shippy says that he felt "contaminated" as he sat down with the Microsoft engineers, helping them to sketch out their architectural requirements with lessons learned from his earlier work on Playstation.

The deal only got worse for Sony. Both designs were delivered on time to IBM's manufacturing division, but there was a problem with the first chip run. Microsoft had had the foresight to order backup manufacturing capacity from a third party. Sony did not and had to wait another six weeks to get their first chips. So Microsoft actually got the chip that Sony helped design before Sony did. In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year.


Mr. Shippy and Ms. Phipps view the delivery of the Cell processor and the derivative Xbox chip as victories for both companies. "Both Sony and Microsoft were extremely successful at achieving their goals," they write. But this is true only in the narrowest sense. The new chips certainly set the standard for technical virtuosity. Yet the current generation of videogame console has been dominated not by Sony or Microsoft but by the Wii, Nintendo's modest machine that relies on an older, cheaper and less powerful chip. With an input device that allows players physically to interact with games, the Wii has been yet another runaway success, selling almost as many consoles as the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 combined.

In fact, the Playstation 3 now runs a distant third in sales. (And the trend is downward: On Monday, The Wall Street Journal reported that "U.S. sales of the PS3 fell 19% last month from a year earlier, while sales doubled for the Wii console and rose 8% for the Xbox 360.") For Sony, the Cell processor was such a debacle that two weeks after the Playstation 3 finally appeared in stores, the company fired Ken Kutaragi, the head of its gaming unit, who had championed the Cell and built the Playstation line. The lesson, lost on Mr. Shippy and Ms. Phipps, is that technical supremacy divorced from sound strategic vision is no virtue. It can even end up in disaster.

Mr. Last is a contributing editor of the Weekly Standard.

Link

lol. I bet that stings. Reminds me of when nintendo backed out on partnering with Sony...pushing Sony to make the PlayStation. "oops.' Gotta read the contracts and think about who ELSE can benefit. Like...you know...the competition. I presume Nintendo's CPU also benefits in some way from Cell R&D, as it too was made in Fishkill.

(side note: my advisor is one of the senior VP's at IBM. we've actually discussed this and several other issues related to the development of these consoles. you'd be surprised to know which he thought was the best console)

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yoshi_64

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#2 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts
Is that really true? Couldn't sony have done some lawsuits against this kind of action on MS or IBM? Well, I must say, it is a certainl interesting story...
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deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b

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#3 deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b
Member since 2005 • 4624 Posts
Oh ****, not another one Dreams.
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Mongo-Boss

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#4 Mongo-Boss
Member since 2008 • 2108 Posts
If you keep up with these threads someone will once again start posting about MS cutting jobs.
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rcignoni

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#5 rcignoni
Member since 2004 • 8863 Posts
Ooh, that DOES sting.
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MrHoboX

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#6 MrHoboX
Member since 2004 • 1322 Posts
Wow... That's cold. And maybe even illegal (I doubt it but you never know).
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myke2010

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#7 myke2010
Member since 2002 • 2747 Posts

If you keep up with these threads someone will once again start posting about MS cutting jobs.Mongo-Boss

Well as long as Sony pays for the R&D I see no reason for MS to keep those people on. :P

All I have to say is the business world redefines the word "cutthroat".

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no_handlebars

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#8 no_handlebars
Member since 2008 • 1774 Posts
Sony is sitting in it's evil lair cursing IBM.
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A_zombie

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#9 A_zombie
Member since 2005 • 7385 Posts

Oh the irony of it all :P How Sony unknowingly helped the creation of the 360. :|

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shaggygrosser

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#10 shaggygrosser
Member since 2003 • 5871 Posts
oh, This can't turn out well.
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WilliamRLBaker

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#11 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts
IBM made out like gangbusters this gen.

They created the ps3, 360, and wii cpu's...
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deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b

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#13 deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b
Member since 2005 • 4624 Posts
It's like a guy driving down his street on the way home stopping to help another guy fix his flat tire, when the guy who got a flat just came from the other guys house after he ****** his wife.
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Dreams-Visions

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#14 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts
Wow... That's cold. And maybe even illegal (I doubt it but you never know).MrHoboX
no, it's not. Sony should have requested some kind of stipulation in the contract that would keep the tech from going into any other gaming console. chances are, they lobbied for it, but IBM/Toshiba refused.
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Dreams-Visions

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#15 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts
It's like a guy driving down his street on the way home stopping to help another guy fix his flat tire, when the guy who got a flat just came from the other guys house after he ****** his wife. bez2083
nah. It's just business. still...I'm sure they didn't expect it could have turned out like this for them. for all we know, they might not have even cared at the time. who's Microsoft? a threat to the Sony empire? hell no! who could have imagined how relevant MS could make themselves just a few years later?
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The_Game21x

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#16 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

Ah, that explains a lot.

If I'm not mistaken, and I probably am (I'll wait on one of the tech guys to correct me if I am), the Cell's 3.2Ghz PPE engine is essentially the same as the three 3.2Ghz cores in the Xbox 360's Xenon Chip, the difference being the Cell of course,has the 8 SPE's to handle most of the raw calculations.

This goes a long way as far as explaining why the two are so similar.

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EmperorSupreme

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#17 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7686 Posts

"In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year."

A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and deal with the problems later.

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jfcundiff

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#18 jfcundiff
Member since 2007 • 6365 Posts
It's like a guy driving down his street on the way home stopping to help another guy fix his flat tire, when the guy who got a flat just came from the other guys house after he ****** his wife. bez2083
Great analogy. I should have thought of something as clever as that.
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deactivated-63f6895020e66

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#19 deactivated-63f6895020e66
Member since 2004 • 21177 Posts
Poor, poor Sony. They have been making some big, big mistakes.
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Dreams-Visions

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#20 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts

Ah, that explains a lot.

If I'm not mistaken, and I probably am (I'll wait on one of the tech guys to correct me if I am), the Cell's 3.2Ghz PPE engine is essentially the same as the three 3.2Ghz cores in the Xbox 360's Xenon Chip, the difference being the Cell of course,has the 8 SPE's to handle most of the raw calculations.

This goes a long way as far as explaining why the two are so similar.

The_Game21x
in terms of the PP#'s, I believe you are correct. and yes, they get pretty different in implementation from there. but I do not doubt that whatever techniques IBM decided on, those decisions were directly influenced by what they learned along the way from Cell development. BUT...according to my executive VP friend, all 3 cpu's were developed in separate locations and there was no direct overlap. that's a fact.
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The_Game21x

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#21 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

Big Flaw right "In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year." A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and fix the problems later.EmperorSupreme
Seeing as the RROD has been mostly attributed to the GPU overheating and heatsink problems, and not the CPU, there's no spin here. You could argue that MS rushed the 360 but as it turns out, the CPU has been just fine so, evidently, that was one area that MS didn't rush. :|

EDIT: And, as many people have already pointed out, Sony did want to launch the PS3 in 2005 but was forced to delay the system due to a number of problems, so no, MS didn't rush their system to market early, they just met their deadline. Something Sony obviously wasn't able to do.

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yoshi_64

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#22 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts

Big Flaw right "In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year." A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and fix the problems later.EmperorSupreme
See it as you may. How is it exactly spinning it? MS did release in their projected year, and RROD may be a common cause, but last gen Xbox had no problems as widespread and PS2's had DRE. Would you say Sony rushed PS3 cause of that? Systems are prone to failure, hardware will break, but even with a widespread problem as this, the 360 is still just selling well and certainly giving SOny a run for it's money, no? Sony has made numerous mistakes this gen, and is certainly paying the price.

Now with that said, your "flaw" with the article has not disproven the quote's fact it stated. Xbox 360 released on time, is a success, and PS3 suffered due to it's numerous delays and being pushed back a year. No? It's what you quoted, and is truer than ever.

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Dreams-Visions

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#23 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts

"In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year."

A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and deal with the problems later.

EmperorSupreme

actually, MS always planned to launch in 2005. they kept to their date, though more testing needed to be done.

and actually, Sony DID plan to launch either in late 2005 or in the early spring of 2006. but because of delays in finalizing the standards for blu-ray, as well as a major lack of blu-ray diodes (low yields), the PS3 had to be delayed. 9 months. so no, there is no spin. it's good to have the facts.

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sargentbotk

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#24 sargentbotk
Member since 2007 • 4224 Posts

So Sony helped make what the 360 is today? I love them! :D

They got owned...badly lol.

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bethwo

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#25 bethwo
Member since 2008 • 1718 Posts
Sony just can't ever seem to catch a break, even though they treat Europe terribly I can't help but feel sorry for them sometimes.
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rybe1025

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#26 rybe1025
Member since 2004 • 6362 Posts
That is awsome. I wish I was in the Sony game division board room when they found all the details out. Talk about pie on the face.
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BTBAM127

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#27 BTBAM127
Member since 2006 • 2522 Posts
you really do hate sony dont you DV? lol
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kingtito

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#29 kingtito
Member since 2003 • 11775 Posts

"In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year."

A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and deal with the problems later.

EmperorSupreme

No actually the PS3 WAS supposed to ship out earlier than it did. It got delayed and thus pushed back an entire year.

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dbzfreak

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#30 dbzfreak
Member since 2003 • 6223 Posts

lol. I bet that stings. Reminds me of when nintendo backed out on partnering with Sony...pushing Sony to make the PlayStation. "oops.' Dreams-Visions
Wasn't Nintendo afraid to go the CD-ROM route and so Sony went and made the Playstation?

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edo-tensei

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#31 edo-tensei
Member since 2007 • 4581 Posts
lol it's funny how people really get into these conspiracy theories stories here at sw
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Zhengi

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#32 Zhengi
Member since 2006 • 8479 Posts

Hey, it's all business and it's always about one upping the competition.

The only thing I would add is that MS still somehow managed to mess it all up and create the RROD problem that has plagued its system. That cost them a cool $1 billion in sunk costs to provide a 3 year warranty.

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dc337

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#33 dc337
Member since 2008 • 2603 Posts

This story is somewhat of an exaggeration. It is true that the cell is a new processor but the core of the cell is just a powerpc cpu. The xbox cpu is a triple core powerpc cpu, which in no way required sony to produce. It is true that they have a similar architecture but calling the xbox cpu a derivative of the core is a bit of a stretch.

The real mistake that Sony made was creating a cpu that developers hate. They spent too much time trying to create a 'supercomputer on a chip' instead of just trying to meet the needs of developers.

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CreepyBacon

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#34 CreepyBacon
Member since 2005 • 3183 Posts
Thanks Sony for helping to create such an awesome Console. :)
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The_Game21x

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#35 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts
you really do hate sony dont you DV? lolBTBAM127
Since when does reporting the news automatically mean you must hate the company associated with it? :?
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II_Seraphim_II

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#36 II_Seraphim_II
Member since 2007 • 20534 Posts
Dreams, do you scour the net looking for negative Sony news? :P
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DireOwl

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#37 DireOwl
Member since 2007 • 3352 Posts
Well, isn't IBM the evil little genius?
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no_handlebars

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#38 no_handlebars
Member since 2008 • 1774 Posts
[QUOTE="BTBAM127"]you really do hate sony dont you DV? lolThe_Game21x
Since when does reporting the news automatically mean you must hate the company associated with it? :?

Since this is System Wars. Home of hypocrisy, slap-fighting, and lulz.
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BTBAM127

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#39 BTBAM127
Member since 2006 • 2522 Posts

[QUOTE="BTBAM127"]you really do hate sony dont you DV? lolThe_Game21x
Since when does reporting the news automatically mean you must hate the company associated with it? :?

negitive news towards a certain company usualy, in a forum full of fanboys waiting to bash. just my opinion though.

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thegoldenpoo

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#40 thegoldenpoo
Member since 2005 • 5136 Posts
Thanks Sony for helping to create such an awesome Console. :) CreepyBacon
Here Here! :P
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Tekkenloving

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#41 Tekkenloving
Member since 2008 • 1546 Posts
this is extremely funy if true.
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WilliamRLBaker

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#42 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

"In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year."

A lot of spin in this article. Actually it was MS that rushed their defective console a year early. In typical MS fashion; launch early and deal with the problems later.

EmperorSupreme

yes thats absolutely what it is :roll: coudlnt' be that the point being made is that because of ibms help and at the cost of the cell they were able to release early, do you think when you post? you do know that if microsoft had went with a reliable fabication company we'd not have a single problem with the system right now? so no the system wasn't rushed the system was released on schedule but at as cheap a price as possible based upon using a unreliable fabrication company.

Then you have the fact the GPU has been sourced as the problem for this stuff on the cpu.

@zhengi
and the only reason you would add that information is to start a fight since this is about the cpu make and how ibm at the cost of sony's deadline helped microsoft release a system earlier not about the gpu and its problems.

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bethwo

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#43 bethwo
Member since 2008 • 1718 Posts

Maybe Sony figured out Microsoft's sinister plans, and decided to counter them by having the chips for the 360 be of a very poor quality and therefore resulting in RROD. Of course!

Microsoft figured it out eventually when Ken Kutaragi was laughing to himself amongst a crowd when Microsoft were adressing the RROD issue to a public audience. Inside, Bill Gates secrelty screamed "SOOOO-NEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!"

And Kutaragi was like "AHAHA! That's what you get for stealing our ideas, Microsoft!"

Microsoft won't admit this to the public though, admitting that they got served by the founder of their rival brand would hurt their reputation too much. People will think Microsoft have gone soft and no longer fear them.

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Blackbond

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#44 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts
Its been a bad holiday for Sony
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Generalmojo

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#45 Generalmojo
Member since 2008 • 3670 Posts
No wonder Ken Kutaragi left!! :D
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#46 Floppy_Jim
Member since 2007 • 25931 Posts
My God, I've never heard so much negative news for a comapny in such a short amount of time :lol: It'll be interesting to see the huge media turnaround when the PS3 gets a price cut or something good happens for the machine.
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Lance_Kalzas

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#47 Lance_Kalzas
Member since 2007 • 2135 Posts
Dreams, do you scour the net looking for negative Sony news? :PII_Seraphim_II
Not necessarily. Very likely he was simply reading news articles on the internet, saw this one, and decided to post it here to educate us all. Generally the simplest explanation is the correct one, right?
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Generalmojo

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#48 Generalmojo
Member since 2008 • 3670 Posts

My God, I've never heard so much negative news for a comapny in such a short amount of time :lol: It'll be interesting to see the huge media turnaround when the PS3 gets a price cut or something good happens for the machine.Floppy_Jim

With a firm positioned 09 lineup, a price cut is all a ps3 needs, yet they still lose money :(

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-Patriots

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#49 -Patriots
Member since 2007 • 279 Posts
All this and we still have NPD coming up. The future isn't looking to good for poor Sony
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Afro_Samurai1

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#50 Afro_Samurai1
Member since 2008 • 522 Posts
you really obsessed with sony anything bad that happens to them you post it.:(