I agree with you Loco, handhelds have an abundance of some great strategy games, just not consoles.
Cool, so you agree PC isn't the place for SRPGs, which was my initial point. Thanks :)
I thought your point was that If you were to combine each and every console and handheld SRPG library ever, since the very, very beginning of gaming, into a collectve pool of SRPGs. Then they would just BARELY beat PC in terms of SRPGs. :^)
You never really specified what your point was.
It's a shame that emulation is a thing. Not that I personally would ever condone or affiliate myself with piracy. :o
@locopatho I dont think he ever said that. Especially now, where even handhelds have been lacking in good SRPGs. No I do not consider FE:A to be a good game. Meanwhile PC had Blackguards and recently Telepath Tactics. And in the past it had games like Jagged Alliance 2 which shat all any console SRPG.
But if you really want to combine every non-PC platform, into one big blob, then consoles do probably hold the advantage. If only somewhat.
@skelly34 said:
@Heil68: @locopatho:
Ah yes, apparently handhelds have become consoles for the duration of this argument. They may be called "handheld consoles" but this comparison is between PC and WiiU/Xbox1/PS4 and their predecessors. Not PSP/vita and gameboy/ds.
My friend, I love almost all of those series. SRPG and RTS being my two favorite game genres. Fire Emblem 7 and FF tactics are among my favorite games ever.
Now, my comrade. Here is your fatal mistake: About 80% of the games in those series are on HANDHELDS not CONSOLES. It is because I love games like this so much that I own these handhelds instead of the sony's/nintendo's silly console.
Among all the series you listed:
- Only Fire emblem 9 and 10 are on nintendo consoles.
- Only Ogre battle 64 and Ogre battle: March are on consoles.
- After PS2 shining force has become completely handheld/mobile. Aside of course from shining resonance for PS3, which was pretty damn terrible and never got a north american release.
- Only the original FFT is on Playstation (one of the few good console strategy games I'll give you that)
- I've never played disgaea, but I've never heard much about or hear it get any praise. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's a good series.
- I'm sure there are other console SRPG titles out there.
The funniest part? Aside from FFT, the console entries are uncannily considered the WORST entries of each series. Even if you were to attribute the games on handhelds to consoles that is still NOTHING in comparison to PC, much less the tiny list that is actually on consoles You two have absolutely no idea how many SRPGs are on PC. PC has gotten three 9/10 SRPGs in the last 5 months xD
Strategy games usually do not sell well on consoles at all, just recently Xcomm has become PC exclusive because it had underwhelming console sales. Valkyria Chronicles had a PC port and SEGA was stunned that it sold so well after it's underwhelming sales in its console lifespan. Today's console gamers largely ignore strategy in all its essence, making PC and handhelds that last bastion for strategy games. Strategy is either dead or dying on consoles and nothing is going to change that. It's one of the reasons I refuse to buy a next gen console.
I agree with you Loco, handhelds have an abundance of some great strategy games, just not consoles.
Err...
Both of those are practically the best games in the entire series according to fans. Also The Best Tactics Ogre existed on both the SNES and PS1.
I agree with you Loco, handhelds have an abundance of some great strategy games, just not consoles.
Cool, so you agree PC isn't the place for SRPGs, which was my initial point. Thanks :)
Heroes of Might and Magic 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
King's Bounty 1,2,3,4,5,6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fire Emblem
Disciples 1, 2, 3
The Banner Saga 1, 2
Grotesque Tactics
X-COM: UFO Defense (1994), X-COM: Terror from the Deep (1995), X-COM: Apocalypse (1997), X-COM: Interceptor (1998), X-COM: Email games (1999), X-COM: Enforcer (2001), XCOM2
Baldur's Gate 1,2, Pillars of Eternity (they also can be classified as SRPG)
While I do agree that the PC does get a lot of good RPGs. I can't say that they get all the great RPGs. They a lot of the good turn based ones but as much as I've hated JRPGs I've grown to take back that statement. One of my favorite RPG was The World Ends With You and that was for the DS. I also enjoyed Devil Survivor 1 for the DS as well. So overall I don't believe that the PC gets the best RPGs it's just what flavor of RPG you like and what system is it released for.
Ah...... likely 6 poorly randomly generated dungeon themes.... standard JRPG's "Buff, debuff ... attack" for 90 hours .... the rest of the time listening to whiny teen problems, and life lessons.
More like a Japanese Interactive Novel with RPG thrown in.
Don't get me wrong, good games... but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
Lol so true. I tried to get into Persona 4, I just couldn't wade though the introduction. It was 20 hours of pressing x to skip the teenage dialogs. I am not kidding, before I saw my first combat 20 hours of game had past. Obviously I was already too burnt with the game to continue.
Ah...... likely 6 poorly randomly generated dungeon themes.... standard JRPG's "Buff, debuff ... attack" for 90 hours .... the rest of the time listening to whiny teen problems, and life lessons.
More like a Japanese Interactive Novel with RPG thrown in.
Don't get me wrong, good games... but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
Lol so true. I tried to get into Persona 4, I just couldn't wade though the introduction. It was 20 hours of pressing x to skip the teenage dialogs. I am not kidding, before I saw a first combat 20 hours had past .
Then that sounds like your fault. Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 20 hours to get to combat
Ah...... likely 6 poorly randomly generated dungeon themes.... standard JRPG's "Buff, debuff ... attack" for 90 hours .... the rest of the time listening to whiny teen problems, and life lessons.
More like a Japanese Interactive Novel with RPG thrown in.
Don't get me wrong, good games... but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
Lol so true. I tried to get into Persona 4, I just couldn't wade though the introduction. It was 20 hours of pressing x to skip the teenage dialogs. I am not kidding, before I saw a first combat 20 hours had past .
Then that sounds like your fault. Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 20 hours to get to combat
Lol no. Just play Persona 4. It's 20 hours of unskippable dialogs before your first real combat.
Ah...... likely 6 poorly randomly generated dungeon themes.... standard JRPG's "Buff, debuff ... attack" for 90 hours .... the rest of the time listening to whiny teen problems, and life lessons.
More like a Japanese Interactive Novel with RPG thrown in.
Don't get me wrong, good games... but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
Lol so true. I tried to get into Persona 4, I just couldn't wade though the introduction. It was 20 hours of pressing x to skip the teenage dialogs. I am not kidding, before I saw a first combat 20 hours had past .
Then that sounds like your fault. Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 20 hours to get to combat
Lol no. Just play Persona 4. It's 20 hours of unskippable dialogs before your first real combat.
Ah...... likely 6 poorly randomly generated dungeon themes.... standard JRPG's "Buff, debuff ... attack" for 90 hours .... the rest of the time listening to whiny teen problems, and life lessons.
More like a Japanese Interactive Novel with RPG thrown in.
Don't get me wrong, good games... but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
Lol so true. I tried to get into Persona 4, I just couldn't wade though the introduction. It was 20 hours of pressing x to skip the teenage dialogs. I am not kidding, before I saw a first combat 20 hours had past .
Then that sounds like your fault. Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 20 hours to get to combat
Lol no. Just play Persona 4. It's 20 hours of unskippable dialogs before your first real combat.
It's not 20 hours
Ok maybe my memory makes it longer that it was. Still it was the longest intro I have ever played.
PC has always been a different platform for RPG's than console. I love Final Fantasy (yes even the much maligned XIII and the sequel but hated Lightning Returns) but also love Divinity OS on PC the two platforms deliver distinctly different RPG experiences.
Embrace variation instead of bleating 'my platform is teh bestest' you achieve nothing other than looking a complete plum on the internet.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to. Yes, the PC has a LOT of amazing SRPGs, that sadly get overlooked by console gamers.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
It depends on your definition of SRPG, because many strategy games on consoles are not actually strategy but more tactical. The correct term should be Tactical RPG, not Strategy.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
The best one is not japanese, nor was it on consoles.
If you wanted to be more specific, you should have called them Tactical RPGs. And even there, the PC only holds a minor disadvantage as most tend to be larger scale SRPGs rather than TRPGs. Though in the 7th and 8th gen, the PC outdid consoles even in TRPGs.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
It depends on your definition of SRPG, because many strategy games on consoles are not actually strategy but more tactical. The correct term should be Tactical RPG, not Strategy.
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
The best one is not japanese, nor was it on consoles.
If you wanted to be more specific, you should have called them Tactical RPGs. And even there, the PC only holds a minor disadvantage as most tend to be larger scale SRPGs rather than TRPGs.
Yes, Jagged Alliance 2 is pretty much the best of all times. Fallout Tactics is undeservedly underrated, but comes second in my opinion.
No offence, but Fnal Fantasy Tactics and Let us cling together feature just grid combat plus dialog and decision making, meanwhile aforementioned game introduce much more game elements to the formula: questing, world exploration, loot hunting, treasure seeking, ambushes, stealth, etc.
Japanese RPGs are often very simplistic. Even Fire Emblem and FFT (god bless their souls) is basically a dumb man's chess.
The more complicated and deep RPGs are on pc, my friend.
See, now you're just posting blatant lies.
It's so weird owning all the systems. Have to deal with nutcases on all sides talking shit CONSTANTLY rather than admit their system of choice has any weakness.
But Bloodborne, Demon's Souls, Persona 5, Xenoblade and Xenoblade X are console-exclusive.
The Title states PC is the best platform for playing RPGs. The fact you needed to combine two platforms and use last gen games proves this ;)
BTW: Xenoblade is on PC and DB/DS better cousins are on PC.
Piracy only counts when it's to a Hermit's benefit, huh? And who's saying Dark Souls and Demon's Souls are better than Bloodborne and Demon's Souls? You? LOL. Even if that was the majority consensus that doesn't suddenly mean Bloodborne and Demon's Souls don't exist, or aren't worth playing.
I bought the Xenoblade disc first.
Its technically still piracy because your emulating nintendo's hardware/software stack.
Japanese RPGs are often very simplistic. Even Fire Emblem and FFT (god bless their souls) is basically a dumb man's chess.
The more complicated and deep RPGs are on pc, my friend.
See, now you're just posting blatant lies.
It's so weird owning all the systems. Have to deal with nutcases on all sides talking shit CONSTANTLY rather than admit their system of choice has any weakness.
I should find a different forum.
PC does have weaknesses. Sports, fighting, action and racing games are terrible on PC and I would never buy a game in that genre for PC. Our JRPG and ARPG scene are rather poor in comparison to consoles.
SRPGs are one of PCs best qualities and you're claiming otherwise without actually looking into what PC has. It just blows all consoles/handhelds out of the water in terms of SRPGs.
It's insulting really.
And they're not lies. In comparison to most JRPGs, CRPGs have a lot more depth.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to. Yes, the PC has a LOT of amazing SRPGs, that sadly get overlooked by console gamers.
Not really a fair comment. If a game comes to a platform you don't own, it's kind of hard to praise it to the moon, isn't it?
Good call on Crusader Kings 2 BTW. Still on my short list for best game last gen.
Japanese RPGs are often very simplistic. Even Fire Emblem and FFT (god bless their souls) is basically a dumb man's chess.
The more complicated and deep RPGs are on pc, my friend.
See, now you're just posting blatant lies.
It's so weird owning all the systems. Have to deal with nutcases on all sides talking shit CONSTANTLY rather than admit their system of choice has any weakness.
I should find a different forum.
If you love Fire Emblem so much, my sincere suggestion would be to try King's Bounty franchise. It doesn't require a modern PC, it can basically run on a toaster. And then compare. Kings Bounty is light years better than Fire Emblem: you have questing like in a traditional RPG, map exploration, a lot of side activities and mini games plus tactical turn based combat with magic spells and summonings. You can get one from GOG.com for 2 dollars right now.
@jhonMalcovich: Just remove interceptor from your list and your list will be fine. Since you already removed Enforcer.
Heck, you can replace them with Endless Legend, Crusader Kings 2 and Sengoku Rance if you want to.
Oh I can add dozens more.
Hell, even Warcraft 3 can be classified as a SRPG, as one fully upgraded hero could easily decimate half of the enemy's army.
Neverwinter Nights 1, 2
Icewin Dale 1,2
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Now you're just mashing a million different games into a pile and trying to call it "SRPG". Lol. There are of course good ones on PC, I know as I love the genre, but the best ones are the Japanese ones on consoles.
It depends on your definition of SRPG, because many strategy games on consoles are not actually strategy but more tactical. The correct term should be Tactical RPG, not Strategy.
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
Why not. Baldur's Gate 1, 2 are turn based, the only difference is that turns are taking place in real time. Read the DDs rules guide.
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
Why not. Baldur's Gate 1, 2 are turn based, the only difference is that turns are taking place in real time. Read the DDs rules guide.
That kinda invalidates it from being turn based. Time in BG1 and 2 flow in real time.
Baldur's Gate are something known as RTwP which is short for 'Real Time with Pause'.
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
Why not. Baldur's Gate 1, 2 are turn based, the only difference is that turns are taking place in real time. Read the DDs rules guide.
That kinda invalidates it from being turn based. Time in BG1 and 2 flow in real time.
Baldur's Gate are something known as RTwP which is short for 'Real Time with Pause'.
Not really. It's like in some jrpg, like Chrono Trigger, where you have a time limit per turn to perform an action. If you don't do anything meaningful then the turn automatically passes to your opponent. Is Chrono Trigger real time if turns are automatic ?
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
Why not. Baldur's Gate 1, 2 are turn based, the only difference is that turns are taking place in real time. Read the DDs rules guide.
That kinda invalidates it from being turn based. Time in BG1 and 2 flow in real time.
Baldur's Gate are something known as RTwP which is short for 'Real Time with Pause'.
Not really. It's like in some jrpg, like Chrono Trigger, where you have a time limit per turn to perform an action. If you don't do anything meaningful then the turn automatically passes to your opponent. Is Chrono Trigger real time if turns are automatic ?
Chrno Trigger isnt turn based either. Battles flow in Real Time, ATB is Real Time. Menu Based, but still real time.
It's just a terminology thing. "Arcade Racers" aren't in arcades anymore either :P No way are Baldur's Gate and Warcraft being smushed in with Fire Emblem though, that don't make sense.
Why not. Baldur's Gate 1, 2 are turn based, the only difference is that turns are taking place in real time. Read the DDs rules guide.
That kinda invalidates it from being turn based. Time in BG1 and 2 flow in real time.
Baldur's Gate are something known as RTwP which is short for 'Real Time with Pause'.
Not really. It's like in some jrpg, like Chrono Trigger, where you have a time limit per turn to perform an action. If you don't do anything meaningful then the turn automatically passes to your opponent. Is Chrono Trigger real time if turns are automatic ?
Chrno Trigger isnt turn based either. Battles flow in Real Time, ATB is Real Time. Menu Based, but still real time.
Maybe, I don't know. My point was Baldur's Gate is SRPG becuase it's party based, you must manage 6 heros, equip them, position them on the battlefield, the battle formation matters, you need to plan ahead when leveling up, especially with multi class heroes, etc, etc. Baldur's Gate is a mix of RTS and RPG, this is why it makes it a perfect SRPG. And on Steam IS classified as an SRPG. So no debate here.
if we are being honest with ourselves PC is the best platform for all genres except sports and fighting games and which steam boxes that will change as well.
Maybe, I don't know. My point was Baldur's Gate is SRPG becuase it's party based, you must manage 6 heros, equip them, position them on the battlefield, the battle formation matters, you need to plan ahead when leveling up, especially with multi class heroes, etc, etc. Baldur's Gate is a mix of RTS and RPG, this is why it makes it a perfect SRPG. And on Steam IS classified as an SRPG. So no debate here.
Honestly, you didnt need to manage their level ups at all. unless it was a thief, sorcerer or it was high levels, the level ups were always automatic.
Most of those things you listed were extremely common with RPGs prior too the big dumbing down, which happened during the 7th gen, and some time before. Even then, the tactics in BG2 were extremely simplistic with too much cheese. my kensai thief could solo the entire game. especially considering that item that made him immune to spells. BG2 is not an SRPG, period, just a good old party based RPG.
@mjorh: You should include Underworld Ascendant its the spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld and its PC only
Yeah , there are tons of games
@NFJSupreme said:
if we are being honest with ourselves PC is the best platform for all genres except sports and fighting games and which steam boxes that will change as well.
@locopatho: have you played Valkyria Chronicles on PC ? .... I gotta say It was amazing
still doesn't change the fact that dragon's dogma is console only, that demon souls and bloodborne is ps3 only. Not to mention the timed exclusivity with dark souls and mass effect.
Multiplats are mostly done better on a pc though, but what else is new
@commander: Dragon Dogma is a good game but it ain't great either. it lacks important elements of a true RPG game and like DS the whole thing revolves around the boss fights. plus it will come to PC soon or later
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