lol please you are on system wars no one is buying it.WilliamRLBakerBuying what? I don't really care if anyone's "buying" anything, think what you want to think. I've been coming here since I was about 11, and I'm going to keep coming here for years to come, and it has nothing to do with who's winning the imaginary console war. I play games for my own entertainment, nothing more. Pretty much the only thing I come here for anymore is gaming news, and the occasional debate(like in this thread) And that's pretty much it, nothing more. Grow up dude... what are you? 40? and you're choosing to be part of this farm animal fanboy war garbage? :? Let it die out. Fanboyism is the death of gaming.
Microsoft increases ad support on Xbox Live.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
You're missing the point. The fact is they DO offer dedicated servers. Period. Which is more than Microsoft can say, who -only- offers P2P, and doesn't even allow their paying customers to run dedicated servers of their own. I don't get what you're trying to argue here. Both companies offer a similar service. One of them offers their SUPERIOR service for free and still makes damn good profits, the other charges a relatively large fee despite making profit from ad revenue. It just doesn't make sense. Looking at huge number of free ad-supported services out there, all signs point to that Microsoft could offer free online gameplay on XBL and still make plenty of money, but they simply choose not to. You can support that if you want, but I'll stick to Steam any day.""Common sense tells you that if a company like Valve can offer dedicated servers for free despite not making money on hardware sales like Microsoft does, and making far less advertising revenues then Microsoft, then Microsoft surely can afford to offer P2P gameplay for free and still make a huge profit from their massive ad deals.""
No common sense would tell you that most of those servers aren't run by valve, In all the games offered on steam even the valve made ones Valve themselves provides less then 1% of the servers its other companies and users that provide them, Its actually something like 80% of the servers are provided by the users.
WilliamRLBaker
Providing servers on PC costs no less then it does on consoles Valve doesn't provide all the servers and they make enough of a tidy profit in selling their own games and charing fee's to other game makers to run that small percentage of servers they do run, the rest are run by users or the companies of those games.
I don't care much about the morality behind it, or that you're getting ripped off, I care that I'm going to get ripped off just like you some day because of people like you supporting getting ripped off and showing the gaming industry that it's OK in our books for them to rip us off more and more all they want. It's bound to happen, because there's not enough people like me and too many people like you who just try to ignore it and let companies do whatever they want. I don't want to be sucked into that group, but I'm going to have to be eventually if I want to remain a gamer because Microsoft is leading the rest of the industry down that direction. It's just a matter of time before other companies do the exact same thing. THAT'S my problem with this whole issue. You can disagree if you want, but that's just how I feel. And come on now, being on XBL does ANYTHING but segregate you from a*sholes lmaoyeah yeah the slippery slope is going to consume us all.[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]
i don't care about the morality of it i care about the service. it is a service that i pay for that is a rip off just like a dozen other things i waste my money on and are also a rip off that i don't really need.
i guess what it all comes down to is the community.
when i sit in sw and i watch a bunch of people gripe and complain and bytch constantly about xbl ( for 7 years running) i know that them not being on xbl and me not having to play games with them is the best thing for me.
it is pretty clear you guys are unlikeable and judgemental about things you have no business being judgemental about and you not being on xbl is a good thing for those of us that are on xbl and don't mind getting ripped off a bit as long as we are segregated from a bunch of a$$holes.
Messiahbolical-
look i know you won't listen to me about it so here is a place that explains why the slippery slope argument is useless.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html
Exposition:
There are two types of fallacy referred to as "slippery slopes":
- Causal Version:
Type:
Non Causa Pro Causa
Form:
If A happens, then by a gradual series of small steps through B, C,?, X, Y, eventually Z will happen, too.
Z should not happen.
Therefore, A should not happen, either.Example:
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach it in the public school, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools, and the next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers. Soon you may set Catholic against Protestant and Protestant against Protestant, and try to foist your own religion upon the minds of men. If you can do one you can do the other. Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding. Always it is feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers, tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lectures, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After [a]while, your honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth century when bigots lighted **** to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind.
Source: Clarence Darrow, The Scopes Trial, Day 2
Analysis
This type is based upon the claim that a controversial type of action will lead inevitably to some admittedly bad type of action. It is the slide from A to Z via the intermediate steps B through Y that is the "slope", and the smallness of each step that makes it "slippery".
This type of argument is by no means invariably fallacious, but the strength of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of steps between A and Z, and directly proportional to the causal strength of the connections between adjacent steps. If there are many intervening steps, and the causal connections between them are weak, or even unknown, then the resulting argument will be very weak, if not downright fallacious.
I don't mind MS ad support. I hope it makes live free one day. Diviniuz.....theres a poop load of ad support now and the cost of live has gone UP...what makes you think the ads will ever make Live go free? lol...so naive.
I don't mind MS ad support. I hope it makes live free one day. Diviniuz.....theres a poop load of ad support now and the cost of live has gone UP...what makes you think the ads will ever make Live go free? lol...so naive.
[QUOTE="Diviniuz"]I don't mind MS ad support. I hope it makes live free one day. Bread_or_Decide.....theres a poop load of ad support now and the cost of live has gone UP...what makes you think the ads will ever make Live go free? lol...so naive. the cost of live went up?
http://dealzon.com/deals/xbox-360-live-coupon#xbox-360-live-coupon
price history:
- $44.9021 days ago
- $33.99a month ago
- $29.99a month ago
having a big unintegrated mess is the higher road?[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Everybody bashing Microsoft here for "ripping off" customers but: A) they still sell their products and services despite the fee B) they aren't on the verge of financial ruin.
So many Sony should learn a thing or two from their competition.
Sony taking the higher road means some massive amounts of money lost while Microsoft just rakes in the cash.
Riverwolf007
having games release without chat, friends list support and in at least one case no online at all in a multiplat fighter is the higher road?
saying the higher road means an ethical choice was made, this was not about ethics, this was about sony not having the technical ability to match what ms has done online.
i'm surprised that you of all people would assign a moral value to the perennial xbl vs psn debate.
Why are you hung up on the phrase "higher road"?
A lot of Sony fanboys here really believe that Sony is just being the better company and looking out for their fans by having the online free to play. So I used that phrase kind of sarcastically.
Lighten up.
having a big unintegrated mess is the higher road?[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Everybody bashing Microsoft here for "ripping off" customers but: A) they still sell their products and services despite the fee B) they aren't on the verge of financial ruin.
So many Sony should learn a thing or two from their competition.
Sony taking the higher road means some massive amounts of money lost while Microsoft just rakes in the cash.
Wasdie
having games release without chat, friends list support and in at least one case no online at all in a multiplat fighter is the higher road?
saying the higher road means an ethical choice was made, this was not about ethics, this was about sony not having the technical ability to match what ms has done online.
i'm surprised that you of all people would assign a moral value to the perennial xbl vs psn debate.
Why are you hung up on the phrase "higher road"?
A lot of Sony fanboys here really believe that Sony is just being the better company and looking out for their fans by having the online free to play. So I used that phrase kind of sarcastically.
Lighten up.
hey man i'm just saying that in the context you used the word it makes it look like a moral choice.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_the_idiom_%27to_take_the_high_road%27
Answer:"To take the high road" means to make a decision based on morals.
sarcasm is tough to get across without any hints like quotation marks or something.
lol, i'm not trying to be a grammer nazi or anything but you gotta give me a hint.
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]
i don't care about the morality of it i care about the service. it is a service that i pay for that is a rip off just like a dozen other things i waste my money on and are also a rip off that i don't really need.
i guess what it all comes down to is the community.
when i sit in sw and i watch a bunch of people gripe and complain and bytch constantly about xbl ( for 7 years running) i know that them not being on xbl and me not having to play games with them is the best thing for me.
it is pretty clear you guys are unlikeable and judgemental about things you have no business being judgemental about and you not being on xbl is a good thing for those of us that are on xbl and don't mind getting ripped off a bit as long as we are segregated from a bunch of a$$holes.
I don't care much about the morality behind it, or that you're getting ripped off, I care that I'm going to get ripped off just like you some day because of people like you supporting getting ripped off and showing the gaming industry that it's OK in our books for them to rip us off more and more all they want. It's bound to happen, because there's not enough people like me and too many people like you who just try to ignore it and let companies do whatever they want. I don't want to be sucked into that group, but I'm going to have to be eventually if I want to remain a gamer because Microsoft is leading the rest of the industry down that direction. It's just a matter of time before other companies do the exact same thing. THAT'S my problem with this whole issue. You can disagree if you want, but that's just how I feel. And come on now, being on XBL does ANYTHING but segregate you from a*sholes lmao then find a cheaper hobby and stop b****ing Thát's your retort? I thought we gamers should at least try to stick up for each other whenever we're not teabagging each other. Guess I was wrong. Enjoy being extorted for the rest of your life with 3 minute ingame ad-overlays, P2P networking, the privilege of buying virtual clothing that enhances your gaming experience and Kinect. Thanks a lot for forcing me to act like a PC elitist. There's a reason why M$ fell flat on it's face on the PC...
Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.tagyhagWe already do blame McDonald's for making people fat. The age of entitlement and unaccountability.
Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.tagyhagYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing.
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.Eddie-VedderYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Jesus people its $5 a month, are any of you employed? This is absolutely nothing.. If people are b1tching this much about this, you must never eat out.. Sure it would be better of its free, but people are seriously putting THIS much energy in complaining about a miniscule fee at best?
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.Eddie-VedderYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.sSubZerOoYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Jesus people its $5 a month, are any of you employed? This is absolutely nothing.. If people are b1tching this much about this, you must never eat out.. Sure it would be better of its free, but people are seriously putting THIS much energy in complaining about a miniscule fee at best? They do it for graphics, they do it for DLC, they do it for flops, they do it for everything. I'd say this is one of the subjects that actually deserves the debate/criticism. It really is a rip off and gamers should step up before it becomes standard.
Yes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.tagyhag
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
On PC gamers have ways of telling a company to FO. On consoles, in this situation the only way is to get loud and bltch about it. If you're primarily a xbox 360 player there really is no choice, you have to pay or your missing out on a pretty significant part of gaming.
Yes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.tagyhag
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
The only people I see b*tching about XBOX Live are the cows.
Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither[QUOTE="tagyhag"]
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Yes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. DireOwl
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
The only people I see b*tching about XBOX Live are the cows.
Well why shouldn't they? They are, after all, the most affected party considering they're the one to never even have experienced Live first hand. I don't really see your point...[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Yes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Eddie-Vedder
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
On PC gamers have ways of telling a company to FO. On consoles, in this situation the only way is to get loud and bltch about it. If you're primarily a xbox 360 player there really is no choice, you have to pay or your missing out on a pretty significant part of gaming. It's not like xbox live is a secret. If you don't want to pay there are other platforms.
Ads? Who the F#$% gives a crap about ads? Not sure if this helps, just my 2 cents.http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169153/Microsoft_expands_network_of_TVlike_ads_on_Xbox_Live.php
Microsoft has to make money somehow!
GameShtopper
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Yes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Eddie-Vedder
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
On PC gamers have ways of telling a company to FO. On consoles, in this situation the only way is to get loud and bltch about it. If you're primarily a xbox 360 player there really is no choice, you have to pay or your missing out on a pretty significant part of gaming. I agree, on MS it's either Live or bust.Now if you told Microsoft to f*ck off, they couldn't care less, you'd just be a drop in an ocean.
Now if the whole ocean told Microsoft to f*ck off, then I'm 99.9999% sure they'd drop the fees. But that will never happen. Why? Not because Microsoft is forcing all these people to pay for their service, it's because all these people are OK with paying for the service. Microsoft is just doing what a good business does, generate profit.
[QUOTE="DireOwl"][QUOTE="tagyhag"] Remember when PC gamers refused to pay for GFWL and Microsoft kept using monthly fees for GFWL? Me neither
Ultimately it boils down to the consumer.
What people are doing now is b*tching about a plate of bad food while still eating the bad food.
Frostbite24
The only people I see b*tching about XBOX Live are the cows.
Well why shouldn't they? They are, after all, the most affected party considering they're the one to never even have experienced Live first hand. I don't really see your point...That makes sense. I don't know what I was thinking.
[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] I don't care much about the morality behind it, or that you're getting ripped off, I care that I'm going to get ripped off just like you some day because of people like you supporting getting ripped off and showing the gaming industry that it's OK in our books for them to rip us off more and more all they want. It's bound to happen, because there's not enough people like me and too many people like you who just try to ignore it and let companies do whatever they want. I don't want to be sucked into that group, but I'm going to have to be eventually if I want to remain a gamer because Microsoft is leading the rest of the industry down that direction. It's just a matter of time before other companies do the exact same thing. THAT'S my problem with this whole issue. You can disagree if you want, but that's just how I feel. And come on now, being on XBL does ANYTHING but segregate you from a*sholes lmaoDrTrafalgarLawthen find a cheaper hobby and stop b****ing Thát's your retort? I thought we gamers should at least try to stick up for each other whenever we're not teabagging each other. Guess I was wrong. Enjoy being extorted for the rest of your life with 3 minute ingame ad-overlays, P2P networking, the privilege of buying virtual clothing that enhances your gaming experience and Kinect. Thanks a lot for forcing me to act like a PC elitist. There's a reason why M$ fell flat on it's face on the PC...i have a few thousand dollars worth of games in my room. Its not even half of all the games ive ever owned. Wtf is another $60 a year to enjoy playing online with my friends? Gaming is an expensive hobby. Always will be
i have a few thousand dollars worth of games in my room. Its not even half of all the games ive ever owned. Wtf is another $60 a year to enjoy playing online with my friends? Gaming is an expensive hobby. Always will be mems_1224That's fine and dandy. But not everyone is a huge gamer like you. Some people like me only buy a few games here and there, and gaming just isn't a priority of mine when it comes to my budget(which is extremely tight at the moment). Maybe I don't ever want to be required spend yearly fees just to be able to play the online parts of games I already payed for. I'm all for having an optional service that makes your experience better, but I don't want to feel like I HAVE to pay for the service just to play games, because there's times where I go 2-3 months without playing any console games online(or very little gaming altogether. So why should I have to pay a $60 fee to be able to pop my COD disc in every once in a while for a couple hours and use MY OWN BANDWIDTH to host the crappy P2P servers? And if I don't pay, I'm simply not allowed to play it anymore. Screw that. Yes, gaming is an expensive hobby, but it doesn't have to get even MORE expensive. I like things the way they were/are without Microsofts tactics in the picture. The last thing I need to do is start throwing money out the window, which is what I might as well be doing paying for XBL, because with all of this advertising Microsoft is pushing it should eliminate the need for a subscription fee. Now whether XBL is good enough or not for you to keep paying for it, I'm not arguing it. It's a damn good service, but it should either have the fee, or have ads. Not both.
[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"][QUOTE="mems_1224"]i have a few thousand dollars worth of games in my room. Its not even half of all the games ive ever owned. Wtf is another $60 a year to enjoy playing online with my friends? Gaming is an expensive hobby. Always will be sts106matbut it should either have the fee, or have ads. Not both. Why? the ads are optional, you dont have to look at them, if you dont want to see them, set your 360 to boot your game from start up instead of going to the dashboard I don't think you know what the word "optional" means. Neither the fee(assuming you have a desire to play the online portions games you buy), nor the ads, are optional.
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.Eddie-VedderYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Yeah, they've given you a choice. So stop complaining about it over 10 years later.
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Yes let's blame Microsoft, because they're the ones putting a gun to your head and telling you to pay for Live. Hey we should blame McDonalds for making people fat! Obviously they have some sort of mind control device that forces people to use their service.RavensmashYes, let's take it up the ass and act like it's our fault and that M$ is such a nice company for giving us the choice of "not paying". What a lovely thing they do for us, give that amazing choice of not paying. So amazing. Yeah, they've given you a choice. So stop complaining about it over 10 years later.They've given us the choice? LOOOOOL How whipped can you get, lemmings are so pathetic. They GAVE you the choice? How big of a moron can you be, so your saying, if M$ wanted, they could take that choice away? Are you really that thick? M$ didn't give you any choice, M$ said pay or GTFO, GTFO isn't M$ giving you a choice, it's you the consumer telling them to FO. WOW lems, so sad :lol:
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Yeah, they've given you a choice. So stop complaining about it over 10 years later.RavensmashThey've given us the choice? LOOOOOL How whipped can you get, lemmings are so pathetic. They GAVE you the choice? How big of a moron can you be, so your saying, if M$ wanted, they could take that choice away? Are you really that thick? M$ didn't give you any choice, M$ said pay or GTFO, GTFO isn't M$ giving you a choice, it's you the consumer telling them to FO. WOW lems, so sad :lol: I chose to pay. I was fully aware of MS charging for Xbox Live, I had the choice to pay or not. And I'm a lem? First off yes, you are a lem, and second, then it was YOUR CHOICE, not M$ giving you the choice, SOOOO PATHETIC. Claiming M$ gave you the choice to not pay is the biggest fanboy statement you lems could ever say. This is what happens when you nooblets decide to defend M$ every chance you get and not look logically and objectively at what they're doing here, most of you are convinced they are actually doing something nice by giving us the choice. Oh wow just lol.
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