In just 8 months the Xbone lost MS 400 million dollars

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#51 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

This, I can agree with. But with the games on the way I still think it can be a success. Time will tell. The Xbox 2 however, I think will be a monster.

I don't doubt that if they stick to gaming, their next console will make the mistakes the Bone did. There will be no motion control hype to get in the way of their vision for the next XBox. I do say that they are in a sticky situation over all. Sony is going to want to keep Gen 8 going for a long time (likely, not as long as Gen7, but still).

The biggest unknown ahead for gaming is whether VR will catch on. If it does, expect Sony to go all in with Gen9 and if not, expect Gen 8 to be a somewhat shorter gen because the next leap in tech will be a whole lot clearer (4K gaming). Until ATI and NVidia can get single-chips running cool and capable of 4K 60fps, we're looking at a pretty long gap. This could deteriorate relationships with 3rd party and XBox.

I'd be weary of the long-term trap that Sony sprung if I were management at XBox. Saying that being real as real can be with no fanboyism. If Oculus Rift and Morpheus become commercially successful, it will be harder for MS to justify to consumers the need for upgrading simply for the reason of better hardware. At the same time, the XBone is tangibly under-powered to do VR meaningfully. It takes a lot of horsepower.

VR is going to be very interesting as I'm not sure it will ever truly take off outside of a very niche group. No doubt MS is looking into it, along with utilizing the cloud with their games. I wouldn't be surprised if Oculus Rift ends up on the One at some point. And while I don't think we'll see a Kinect 3, voice commands will be a part of the next Xbox IMHO. It'll be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

#52 Edited by Seabas989 (10170 posts) -

And it's been less then a year since the console launched.

#53 Edited by 04dcarraher (19476 posts) -

@04dcarraher said:

@edwardecl said:

The thing is you can't look at the console as just losing money... they are using the Xbox brand to push their other services such as Skype and their Azure cloud services as well as expanding or potentially expanding the services to areas such as IPTV. If they don't make complimentary services then people like Google are going to crucify them in the online arena more then they already are.

Sony do the same, they use PS brand to push their own Bluray format and their own films, they are also pushing their own online music and TV services, there is probably more to come as well. Think of it this way as well, every time Microsoft sells a console or game on Bluray disc they are paying Sony royalties... so the pushing the PS3 for the Bluray format really paid off big time.

They aren't paying Sony royalties more then one company had/has bluray patents, and no one company owns it, Sony does not "own" Blu-ray in any way shape portion or form, its a bunch of companies that belong to a pool of patents. The only way MS would be paying Sony would be if they were to buy Sony bluray drives which isnt going to happen.

They still get royalties from it even if they don't outright own it.

No they do not directly, It was developed with Philips and other members of the "Blu-ray Disc Association" and contributing to the development of the format like Pioneer,LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp etc The current Board of Directors is comprised of Apple, Dell, HP, Hitachi, LG, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, 20th Century Fox etc

It belongs to a patent pool, just like the audio and video codecs,and hardware patent tech that runs it, just like the HDMI founders who are also a group or collective patent holders. When a product is developed someone is always paying someone else In the end.....but in the end the money just goes around Sure some minute portion of monetary recompense may go to Sony via MS, but it is reciprocal when as Sony has to use MS tech as well...

#54 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (5967 posts) -

I think most of that loss is due to R&D for the console... a lot of that will be made back over the next few years I'd say.

#55 Edited by dakan45 (18614 posts) -

@gamersjustgame said:

@Gue1 said:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2456906/as-hardware-kills-microsoft-profits-ceo-nadella-seeks-comfort-in-software.html

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/08/08/xbox-one-lost-microsoft-400000000-during-last-fiscal-year/

"Computing and Gaming Hardware revenue increased $3.2 billion or 49%, primarily due to higher revenue from the Xbox Platform and Surface. Xbox Platform revenue increased $1.7 billion or 34%, due mainly to sales of Xbox One, which was released in November 2013, offset in part by a decrease in sales of Xbox 360. We sold 11.7 million Xbox consoles during fiscal year 2014 compared with 9.8 million Xbox consoles during fiscal year 2013. Surface revenue increased $1.3 billion or 157%, due mainly to a higher number of devices and accessories sold.

Computing and Gaming Hardware gross margin decreased slightly, due to a $3.2 billion or 59% increase in cost of revenue, offset in part by higher revenue. Xbox Platform cost of revenue increased $2.1 billion or 72%, due mainly to higher volumes of consoles sold and higher costs associated with Xbox One. Surface cost of revenue increased $970 million or 51%, due mainly to a higher number of devices and accessories sold, offset in part by a charge for Surface RT inventory adjustments of approximately $900 million in fiscal year 2013."

source

This is on a gross margin basis as well so the operating loss is probably much higher.

Between the OG Xbox disaster, RROD and now the Xbone MS has never made a dime out of the Xbox brand. So why do they continue making consoles anyway? What is driving MS to keep hemorrhaging money through Xbox? Because I'm pretty sure they are not doing it out of their love for gaming.

You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

This, nuff said.

Sony is bleeding money, their ceo and key members take paycheck cuts, infact sony will take 488 million loss this year from what i heard.

#56 Posted by ShoTTyMcNaDeS (2045 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Zoinks, Lems can't catch a break.

Why would I care how much money MS loses on XBOX?? You see, I have a life, a job, a wife, kids and I exercise! Anyone who sits around all day trying to dig up negative press about gaming company's is a complete loser and should really take a long look in the mirror and see where their life is headed. I play games for fun. If MS and XBOX go away tomorrow, I will find something else to do!!!

#57 Posted by MonsieurX (29981 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Zoinks, Lems can't catch a break.

Why would I care how much money MS loses on XBOX?? You see, I have a life, a job, a wife, kids and I exercise! Anyone who sits around all day trying to dig up negative press about gaming company's is a complete loser and should really take a long look in the mirror and see where their life is headed. I play games for fun. If MS and XBOX go away tomorrow, I will find something else to do!!!

Because if a product is not financially stable,why would they keep supporting it?

#58 Posted by PlayStationWins (10 posts) -

@dakan45 said:

@gamersjustgame said:

@Gue1 said:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2456906/as-hardware-kills-microsoft-profits-ceo-nadella-seeks-comfort-in-software.html

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/08/08/xbox-one-lost-microsoft-400000000-during-last-fiscal-year/

"Computing and Gaming Hardware revenue increased $3.2 billion or 49%, primarily due to higher revenue from the Xbox Platform and Surface. Xbox Platform revenue increased $1.7 billion or 34%, due mainly to sales of Xbox One, which was released in November 2013, offset in part by a decrease in sales of Xbox 360. We sold 11.7 million Xbox consoles during fiscal year 2014 compared with 9.8 million Xbox consoles during fiscal year 2013. Surface revenue increased $1.3 billion or 157%, due mainly to a higher number of devices and accessories sold.

Computing and Gaming Hardware gross margin decreased slightly, due to a $3.2 billion or 59% increase in cost of revenue, offset in part by higher revenue. Xbox Platform cost of revenue increased $2.1 billion or 72%, due mainly to higher volumes of consoles sold and higher costs associated with Xbox One. Surface cost of revenue increased $970 million or 51%, due mainly to a higher number of devices and accessories sold, offset in part by a charge for Surface RT inventory adjustments of approximately $900 million in fiscal year 2013."

source

This is on a gross margin basis as well so the operating loss is probably much higher.

Between the OG Xbox disaster, RROD and now the Xbone MS has never made a dime out of the Xbox brand. So why do they continue making consoles anyway? What is driving MS to keep hemorrhaging money through Xbox? Because I'm pretty sure they are not doing it out of their love for gaming.

You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

This, nuff said.

Sony is bleeding money, their ceo and key members take paycheck cuts, infact sony will take 488 million loss this year from what i heard.

Each division is like its own company. It doesn't matter if the other divisions are hugely profitable. If the Xbox division continues to bleed money, then it's going to get canned.

#59 Posted by blackace (20550 posts) -

Time to start selling some buildings.

The company makes billions in profits every quarter. Why would they need to sell buildings? lol!! This is Sony who has been doing the complete opposite for the past 6 years. Sony has lost billions every year for 6 years straight. This is why they dumped their PC/Laptop Division, sold 2 HQ (in Tokyo and New York), sold over 350 million in stocks. sold their SquareEnix stock and laid off over 8500 employees over the past year. Get a clue kid.

#60 Posted by blackace (20550 posts) -

Time to sell their employees.

They already dumped a few thousand Nokie employees. So that's been covered. $400 million loss and billions in profits every quarter. lol!! I don't think the $400 million is going to hurt them much.

#61 Posted by freedomfreak (39984 posts) -
@blackace said:

The company makes billions in profits every quarter. Why would they need to sell buildings? lol!! This is Sony who has been doing the complete opposite for the past 6 years. Sony has lost billions every year for 6 years straight. This is why they dumped their PC/Laptop Division, sold 2 HQ (in Tokyo and New York), sold over 350 million in stocks. sold their SquareEnix stock and laid off over 8500 employees over the past year. Get a clue kid.

For someone that says "lol!!" and "LMAO!!" every 3 words, you sure don't get something as simple as a joke.

#62 Posted by mems_1224 (46954 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

They've never made a dime? Really?

Seriously, anyone who's a PlayStation gamer should be happy Microsoft entered gaming or you probably wouldn't have even been able to use the XMB during gameplay.

playstations would still be using dial up lol

#63 Edited by mems_1224 (46954 posts) -

@jsmoke03 said:

yea, selling at a loss and recouping through software hasnt worked out for them has it?

You have to have a decent console base to recoup money on software.

Pretty sure they have that.

#64 Edited by tonitorsi (8327 posts) -

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at the cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* f*cking phone grammar -_-

#65 Edited by Heil68 (43939 posts) -

@ShoTTyMcNaDeS said:

@Heil68 said:

Zoinks, Lems can't catch a break.

Why would I care how much money MS loses on XBOX?? You see, I have a life, a job, a wife, kids and I exercise! Anyone who sits around all day trying to dig up negative press about gaming company's is a complete loser and should really take a long look in the mirror and see where their life is headed. I play games for fun. If MS and XBOX go away tomorrow, I will find something else to do!!!

Yeah, I hate those guys, but ain't it something how much money MS lost in the last 8 months?!?

#66 Posted by farrell2k (5856 posts) -

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

#67 Posted by EasyComeEasyGo (584 posts) -

Well I don't work for MS so this is not my problem.

#68 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (958 posts) -

MS probably made that back during lunch in interest with money they have in the bank.

Anyway....not a good sign for the X1. I honstly think they will ditch the X1 sooner rather than later...Sega proved that completely ditching a system too early can be a death sentence....although they did it a couple of times rather than just once.

But still....I don't think any company would want to ditch a console b/c of that whole fiasco. That said...I still think it will be sooner rather than the "normal" timeline.

#69 Edited by blackace (20550 posts) -

@freedomfreak said:
@blackace said:

The company makes billions in profits every quarter. Why would they need to sell buildings? lol!! This is Sony who has been doing the complete opposite for the past 6 years. Sony has lost billions every year for 6 years straight. This is why they dumped their PC/Laptop Division, sold 2 HQ (in Tokyo and New York), sold over 350 million in stocks. sold their SquareEnix stock and laid off over 8500 employees over the past year. Get a clue kid.

For someone that says "lol!!" and "LMAO!!" every 3 words, you sure don't get something as simple as a joke.

Because you don't joke when it comes to anything Xbox. lol!! Doesn't look like they lost anything.

http://www.twinfinite.net/2014/08/08/microsoft-lost-400-million-xbox-one/

#70 Edited by tonitorsi (8327 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

Live generated them pretty good yearly profits, especially when Microsoft started making the dough on every 360 sold soon after 2007 I think. Plus Kinect bundles and yearly exclusives such as Halo each selling 8 million plus, definitely added to the amount they collected.

I think they were making a cool 1 - 2 billion every year from their gaming division. Mostly because Live was a great success.

#71 Posted by freedomfreak (39984 posts) -
#72 Posted by farrell2k (5856 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

Live generated them pretty good yearly profits, especially when Microsoft started making the dough on every 360 sold soon after 2007 I think. Plus Kinect bundles and yearly exclusives such as Halo each selling 8 million plus, yearly as well, definitely added to the amount they collected.

I think they were making a cool 1 - 2 billion every year from their gaming division. Mostly because Live was a great success.

I don't think so...

#73 Edited by tonitorsi (8327 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

Live generated them pretty good yearly profits, especially when Microsoft started making the dough on every 360 sold soon after 2007 I think. Plus Kinect bundles and yearly exclusives such as Halo each selling 8 million plus, yearly as well, definitely added to the amount they collected.

I think they were making a cool 1 - 2 billion every year from their gaming division. Mostly because Live was a great success.

I don't think so...

As far as I know, the 3 billion loss was during the first Xbox.

They recouped that loss with the 360, Kinect and Live. The big decline you see in that chart in 2013-forward was when they launched the Xbox One (mainly due to Kinect 2.0).

But 360 moved the dought though. Which was the point I was trying to make :P

#74 Edited by farrell2k (5856 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

Live generated them pretty good yearly profits, especially when Microsoft started making the dough on every 360 sold soon after 2007 I think. Plus Kinect bundles and yearly exclusives such as Halo each selling 8 million plus, yearly as well, definitely added to the amount they collected.

I think they were making a cool 1 - 2 billion every year from their gaming division. Mostly because Live was a great success.

I don't think so...

As far as I know, the 3 billion loss was during the first Xbox.

They recouped that loss with the 360, Kinect and Live. The big decline you see in that chart in 2013-forward was when they launched the Xbox One (mainly due to Kinect 2.0).

But 360 moved the dought though. Which was the point is trying to make :P

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

He shows, via Microsoft's own financial numbers. that the Xbox division has lost close to $3 billion in the last 10 fiscal years.

Article dated Jan 2013.

#75 Edited by ShoTTyMcNaDeS (2045 posts) -

So the massive ass kicking that Sony took on the debacle known as the PS3 means nothing right?? I love how the Cows suddenly have short and selective memories on how horrible the first two years the life of early PS3 adopters was. $599 price point, no games, crap online, etc.

However, from late 2007 forward, the PS3 gave the X360 everything it wanted and more in my opinion. So why is that Sony fanboy nation seems to think that MS and the X1 are DOA? How can you possibly think that MS can't turn around what has been a rocky start for the X1? Has Halo 5 released? Has Gears of War released? How about Fable Legends, Forza Horizons 2, Crackdown 3, Quantum Break, Below, Ori and the Blind Forest...etc! Please give some some tangible, non fanboy reasons and we will see where this goes. I'm betting there isn't any!

#76 Edited by tonitorsi (8327 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

@farrell2k said:

@tonitorsi said:

Everyone was aware of this, except those that unfortunately lived in a high cloud believing Microsoft favors taking losses when in actuality, its in MS's business manual to close the sections that aren't benefiting them in any form. Its the reason they have outlasted dozens of corporations 'till this day

Seeing how Xbox has build its brand name from the ground up and generated profits in the past, they'll want to hold on to see if they can turn this around.

And they probably will. Well, at cost of (maybe) increasing some prizes, but they will.

Edit* fucking phone grammar -_-

When has the Xbox ever been profitable?

Live generated them pretty good yearly profits, especially when Microsoft started making the dough on every 360 sold soon after 2007 I think. Plus Kinect bundles and yearly exclusives such as Halo each selling 8 million plus, yearly as well, definitely added to the amount they collected.

I think they were making a cool 1 - 2 billion every year from their gaming division. Mostly because Live was a great success.

I don't think so...

As far as I know, the 3 billion loss was during the first Xbox.

They recouped that loss with the 360, Kinect and Live. The big decline you see in that chart in 2013-forward was when they launched the Xbox One (mainly due to Kinect 2.0).

But 360 moved the dought though. Which was the point is trying to make :P

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

He shows, via Microsoft's own financial numbers. that the Xbox division has lost close to $3 billion in the last 10 fiscal years.

Article dated Jan 2013.

Even if the 3 billion loss was during the span of 10 years, what I wanted to clarify was that Microsoft was earning as much as that to even things out, even if it was short lived. Judging from that chart, I can't tell how its going to go down for 2013 and forward or how much the losses will ultimately be. But there was a time when Xbox wasn't loosing money and instead was profiting.

But I see your case. They lost 3 billion and are still having losses with the Xbone One.

But again going back to my first statement, they will turn it around, if they can.

That's why Spencer was moved in.

#77 Edited by ActicEdge (24464 posts) -

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

He shows, via Microsoft's own financial numbers. that the Xbox division has lost close to $3 billion in the last 10 fiscal years.

Article dated Jan 2013.

You can have a net loss and still have periods where you were making money. The Xbox division was profitable at certain periods of time during the 360 era. It wasn't enough to over ride the losses during the original Xbox and RROD issues though (and now apparently the X1).

#78 Edited by Gaming-Planet (14021 posts) -

#79 Posted by farrell2k (5856 posts) -

@farrell2k said:

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

He shows, via Microsoft's own financial numbers. that the Xbox division has lost close to $3 billion in the last 10 fiscal years.

Article dated Jan 2013.

You can have a net loss and still have periods where you were making money. The Xbox division was profitable at certain periods of time during the 360 era. It wasn't enough to over ride the losses during the original Xbox and RROD issues though (and now apparently the X1).

I said the xbox brand. Never has it made a dime for Microsoft.

#80 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -


You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

You sure that wasn't from big screen TVs?

#81 Posted by santoron (7717 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

Between the OG Xbox disaster, RROD and now the Xbone MS has never made a dime out of the Xbox brand. So why do they continue making consoles anyway? What is driving MS to keep hemorrhaging money through Xbox? Because I'm pretty sure they are not doing it out of their love for gaming.

Because the XBox represented their best shot at what MS has long thought of as their Holy Grail: A MS box at the center of and controlling the living room experience. It's why they paid a ridiculous sum for WebTV many years ago. It's why they were pushing HTPCs for a number of years. It's why the 360's evolution went the way it did, and it's why the XB1 was designed the way it was. The plan with the XBox has always been to gain market penetration and then leverage the brand to build a far more encompassing platform that ensured MS would get a piece of your entertainment dollar no matter what you wanted to play, watch, or listen to.

Problem is MS chased that dream for so long the world passed them by. The living room is quickly losing its place as the nerve center of the average household. And mobile has become the dominant platform for more and more entertainment purchases, a market that MS was slow to embrace.

The good news is that MS has new management that finally understands the realities of the modern world, so recent public support for the XBox brand implies they see value in it for what it actually can do - be a great gaming machine - instead of what they thought they could turn it into. I'm sure they aren't happy with the state of the current XBox - either in marketshare or financial performance - but they aren't largely responsible for its situation. They're charged with making the best old management's mess until they can launch a box that reflects new priorities.

#82 Posted by inb4uall (5458 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

They've never made a dime? Really?

Seriously, anyone who's a PlayStation gamer should be happy Microsoft entered gaming or you probably wouldn't have even been able to use the XMB during gameplay.

Rarely do this if ever. I would prefer for consoles to stay as consoles not gimped PC's.

#83 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

This is the end of the xbox.

I say get rid of the xbox and bring back Sega

#84 Edited by GamersJustGame (306 posts) -

@gamersjustgame said:

You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

You sure that wasn't from big screen TVs?

Sony is 11 billion in debt. PS3 is accountable for 6 of it.

#85 Edited by Xtasy26 (4251 posts) -

I think MS went about the Xbox One the wrong away. Instead of pushing it as a TV service as well as a Gaming device. they should have pushed it as a gaming device first and a TV service second. They should have never included Kinect and sold it for $500. That hampered their sales. I mean at the very least if they wanted to include the Kinect AT LEAST include an option where they could sell Xbox One without the Kinect and sell it for $400 like they are doing right now. They were 6 - 8 months late to the game. Granted I do think they could some what get close to PS4 in terms of sales but I think damage was done in public impression.

The most idiotic think that MS did IMO was include a weaker GPU that couldn't push 1080P. Now there are relying on software updates to free up GPU resources so they could play catch up to PS4 in terms of the number of games that could do 1080P. I mean why in the world were they targetting 1080P from the get go..oh I forgot they didn't emphasize gaming first and decided to include a lot of bloatware TV service, Kinect that a lot of gamers don't care for. I mean the fact that Xbox One can't push 1080P on a game like COD Ghosts is embarrassing.

I mean if you are in the store and had a choice to choose over $400 PS4 that can push 1080P over a weaker Xbox One which initially costs $100 more which one would you choose?

#86 Posted by stereointegrity (10706 posts) -

@Shielder7 said:

@gamersjustgame said:

You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

You sure that wasn't from big screen TVs?

Sony is 11 billion in debt. PS3 is accountable for 6 of it.

and xbox division has cost MS billions also

#87 Posted by Xtasy26 (4251 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@Blabadon said:

They've never made a dime? Really?

Seriously, anyone who's a PlayStation gamer should be happy Microsoft entered gaming or you probably wouldn't have even been able to use the XMB during gameplay.

there is truth in this.... xbox brand was very important in bringing consoles out of the stone age... I hate to think what they would be like now without them.

This is true. I think they brought a lot to the table. I think Xbox Live brought a lot to the table in terms of multiplayer and I bet it was profitable too. Even though as a PC Gamer I don't believe in a subscription based service like Xbox Live since we have steam and origin which is free.

#88 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

@Xtasy26 said:

This is true. I think they brought a lot to the table. I think Xbox Live brought a lot to the table in terms of multiplayer and I bet it was profitable too. Even though as a PC Gamer I don't believe in a subscription based service like Xbox Live since we have steam and origin which is free.

Xbox Live is an abomination, if it wasn't for MS consoles would charge you anything to be online. You think Sony would would charge to play online if MS hadn't of shown them how stupid people are and will pay for something they should get free?

The only thing MS brought to the table was greed.

#89 Posted by RoboCopISJesus (1408 posts) -

Fighting over second place in sales,,,are we?

#90 Posted by MBirdy88 (8024 posts) -

@Xtasy26 said:

This is true. I think they brought a lot to the table. I think Xbox Live brought a lot to the table in terms of multiplayer and I bet it was profitable too. Even though as a PC Gamer I don't believe in a subscription based service like Xbox Live since we have steam and origin which is free.

Xbox Live is an abomination, if it wasn't for MS consoles would charge you anything to be online. You think Sony would would charge to play online if MS hadn't of shown them how stupid people are and will pay for something they should get free?

The only thing MS brought to the table was greed.

MS brought competent online and features... weather the cost was there or not. Sony's early PSN was utter dogshite.... and no. money talks... the R&D for these services is ridiculously expensive. can't have it both ways chump.

#91 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@Shielder7 said:

@Xtasy26 said:

This is true. I think they brought a lot to the table. I think Xbox Live brought a lot to the table in terms of multiplayer and I bet it was profitable too. Even though as a PC Gamer I don't believe in a subscription based service like Xbox Live since we have steam and origin which is free.

Xbox Live is an abomination, if it wasn't for MS consoles would charge you anything to be online. You think Sony would would charge to play online if MS hadn't of shown them how stupid people are and will pay for something they should get free?

The only thing MS brought to the table was greed.

MS brought competent online and features... weather the cost was there or not. Sony's early PSN was utter dogshite.... and no. money talks... the R&D for these services is ridiculously expensive. can't have it both ways chump.

PSN was simple and free, hardly dogshit. The only thing Xbox Live had over PSN was cross game chat which was hardly needed IMO.

#92 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (28380 posts) -

lol I don't think any sheen should talk about money lost.

#93 Posted by mgools (898 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

They've never made a dime? Really?

Seriously, anyone who's a PlayStation gamer should be happy Microsoft entered gaming or you probably wouldn't have even been able to use the XMB during gameplay.

Competition is good for everyone. I for one am glad that there is the PC, PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U, and I hope they all make it.

#94 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6222 posts) -

Lol, this is PS3 2007 all over again. The One will be fine, stop being so pessimistic. Master Chief collection is gonna sell Xboxs like hot cakes this holiday.

#95 Posted by delta3074 (18093 posts) -

@gamersjustgame said:

You do realize the PS3 caused sony to go 6 billion in debt.

Yes and the PS3 had blu-ray and more expensive hardware than the xbox 360,not cheap ass hardware lie MS has this gen,it was probably the loss of directly,i mean they spend $100 millions just re shaping the controller which many believe the xbox 360 one is better.

Any way i call it for months MS was losing money on the xbox and hiding it,this get out now because they have to report to US if it wasn't for that they it would have pass unkown and cover by Android money patent or some other MS cash cow.

Your last sentence makes no sense whatsoever dude, lay off the caffiene man.

#96 Posted by delta3074 (18093 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

This, I can agree with. But with the games on the way I still think it can be a success. Time will tell. The Xbox 2 however, I think will be a monster.

I don't doubt that if they stick to gaming, their next console will make the mistakes the Bone did. There will be no motion control hype to get in the way of their vision for the next XBox. I do say that they are in a sticky situation over all. Sony is going to want to keep Gen 8 going for a long time (likely, not as long as Gen7, but still).

The biggest unknown ahead for gaming is whether VR will catch on. If it does, expect Sony to go all in with Gen9 and if not, expect Gen 8 to be a somewhat shorter gen because the next leap in tech will be a whole lot clearer (4K gaming). Until ATI and NVidia can get single-chips running cool and capable of 4K 60fps, we're looking at a pretty long gap. This could deteriorate relationships with 3rd party and XBox.

I'd be weary of the long-term trap that Sony sprung if I were management at XBox. Saying that being real as real can be with no fanboyism. If Oculus Rift and Morpheus become commercially successful, it will be harder for MS to justify to consumers the need for upgrading simply for the reason of better hardware. At the same time, the XBone is tangibly under-powered to do VR meaningfully. It takes a lot of horsepower.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/microsoft-interested-in-using-eye-tracking-vr-headset-for-xbox-one-1259657

'Last week we reported that FOVE, creator of the world's first head-mounted eye-tracking display, had been accepted into Microsoft's Ventures London programme - igniting speculation that Microsoft was sniffing around some new gaming VR tech.

Now a source from the company has confirmed to TechRadar that Microsoft has explicitly expressed interest in using the FOVE technology with Xbox, and will be offering development kits for the startup to use.'

'Microsoft has several different accelerator programmes around the world, with London's most strongly linked to the gaming scene.

With Oculus Rift and Sony's Project Morpheus making their way to market, Microsoft certainly won't want to be left out, so it. This new information chimes with that from another source, who informed TechRadar that Microsoft's VR plans are still well behind Oculus Rift.

But with the possibility of making the technology work with Kinect - and now potentially with eye-tracking tech too - Microsoft could build a truly compelling device.'

#97 Edited by Shewgenja (8774 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@shawn30 said:

This, I can agree with. But with the games on the way I still think it can be a success. Time will tell. The Xbox 2 however, I think will be a monster.

I don't doubt that if they stick to gaming, their next console will make the mistakes the Bone did. There will be no motion control hype to get in the way of their vision for the next XBox. I do say that they are in a sticky situation over all. Sony is going to want to keep Gen 8 going for a long time (likely, not as long as Gen7, but still).

The biggest unknown ahead for gaming is whether VR will catch on. If it does, expect Sony to go all in with Gen9 and if not, expect Gen 8 to be a somewhat shorter gen because the next leap in tech will be a whole lot clearer (4K gaming). Until ATI and NVidia can get single-chips running cool and capable of 4K 60fps, we're looking at a pretty long gap. This could deteriorate relationships with 3rd party and XBox.

I'd be weary of the long-term trap that Sony sprung if I were management at XBox. Saying that being real as real can be with no fanboyism. If Oculus Rift and Morpheus become commercially successful, it will be harder for MS to justify to consumers the need for upgrading simply for the reason of better hardware. At the same time, the XBone is tangibly under-powered to do VR meaningfully. It takes a lot of horsepower.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/microsoft-interested-in-using-eye-tracking-vr-headset-for-xbox-one-1259657

'Last week we reported that FOVE, creator of the world's first head-mounted eye-tracking display, had been accepted into Microsoft's Ventures London programme - igniting speculation that Microsoft was sniffing around some new gaming VR tech.

Now a source from the company has confirmed to TechRadar that Microsoft has explicitly expressed interest in using the FOVE technology with Xbox, and will be offering development kits for the startup to use.'

'Microsoft has several different accelerator programmes around the world, with London's most strongly linked to the gaming scene.

With Oculus Rift and Sony's Project Morpheus making their way to market, Microsoft certainly won't want to be left out, so it. This new information chimes with that from another source, who informed TechRadar that Microsoft's VR plans are still well behind Oculus Rift.

But with the possibility of making the technology work with Kinect - and now potentially with eye-tracking tech too - Microsoft could build a truly compelling device.'

That's a good find.

#98 Posted by edwardecl (2239 posts) -

"But with the possibility of making the technology work with Kinect - and now potentially with eye-tracking tech too - Microsoft could build a truly compelling device.'"

How will it track your eyes if you have a VR headset on?

#99 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (6726 posts) -

R&D costs, production costs all take time to get back. You think the PS4 is pure profit?

#100 Posted by edwardecl (2239 posts) -

R&D costs, production costs all take time to get back. You think the PS4 is pure profit?

Not to mention all those Kinects they need to landfill.