Forbes thinks the Switch is a Scorpio killer

@tormentos:

If you want to down play Scorpio's advantages that is fine but it's more than a 42% increase in Computational ability (1.8 TF's). It's a next Gen GPU with increased efficiency, 50% more Bandwidth, 50% more RAM and Much better CPU. The Potential is there to see huge differences if Devs decide to use the HW to it's full potential. If Devs decide to just use the increase for resolution purposes then you'll be correct that most might not notice the difference.

It's also the largest increase going from 1 console to the next at 4.7 TF's.

Even though Lemmings will defend the Scorpio until their face turns blue, bottom line is that the Switch has more hype surrounding it that neither PS4 Pro or Scorpio can match it. Switch brings something new for all ages and its portable. Sadly the only console maker who's going to suffer in longer term sales is the XB1, because sony is already 50+ Mill sold , unlike MS who's only 25+ mill sold which Switch is going to eat up in no time. But that's just my opinion.

I think that the Scorpio is aimed at a niche small market. It's going to be extremely expensive, most people don't have a 4K TV yet.

I don't imagine a large amount of Xbone owners will double dip, I'm not because

A) I don't have a 4K TV.

B) All Scorpio games will be on the original Xbox One, which I already own.

C) If I cared about power, framerate, graphics so much, I would buy a gaming PC.

I like the Xbone and all but they are really just an imitation of Sony. The PS4 and Xbone are basically the same thing. Just except the PS4 has better exclusive games.

1. Switch is coming out in a couple of days, so of course there's more hype now
2. Switch isn't a console, it's a handheld
3. You don't know at how many consoles sold MS is, but indeed Switch will probably go higher since it's a handheld

Or how the xbone having more CPU/GPU power unlocked from kinect could help the console run games at 1080p/60. lol.

Scorpio was built because people demanded it and it will be designed to last a gen or more. I dont think MS gives a crap about this article or about the underpowered Switch that will get abandoned by Nintendo in 3 years and abandoned by 3rd parties in 2 years.

Scorpio is its own killer. A mid-gen console launch with no exclusives and significantly more expensive than the best selling console (PS4 Slim). It's gonna flop harder than pancakes.

Don't you mean star wars battlefront 4? 3 is already out..

GTA is not a great looking game vs other games,it look good but not even close to the best looking games.

GTA3 on PS2 wasn't a power house either in fact the gateway looked better and was way less popular.

No there will not be..

This is the Pro vs a OC i7 6700k and a Titan Pascal a 12Teraflop card and while you can see textures are better on PC as well and some other details is not even close to how you want to picture the gap between Scorpio and Pro,and this PC beat the shit out of Scorpio by the way unless you want to argue that a 6TF scorpio GPU with a god knows what water down CPU from AMD is faster than this PC.

Power on consoles come from GPU and CPU,Scorpio is 42% more powerful than Pro GPU wise that is what the GPU gap say,the CPU wise we don't but remember the higher the GPU the more CPU you need to drive it so while Scorpio may end with a better CPU,it would also devote more resources to drive a stronger GPU.

Ram will not increase power,and the Fury X has 4GB and i don't see it performing badly the PS4 Pro has 5.5 GB now for games.

Yes it will also try to drive 4k native which consumes more bandwidth than the pro which goes more for 1800p which requires less bandwidth,again this is a case of Scorpio has more but scorpio also need more than Pro version of games because it shooting for higher quality and more pixels which does require more bandwidth.

We don't know what CPU it is,and the Pro runs games like BF1 without problems at 60FPS so yeah i don't see the CPU problem you see,but then again BF1 is a well optimized game many others are not.

Link to where MS confirms the GPU inside scorpio is Vega.

By the way the GPU on PS4 Pro is polaris based but has VEGA features if you didn't know it.

In actual fact, two new AMD roadmap features debut in the Pro, ahead of their release in upcoming Radeon PC products - presumably the Vega GPUs due either late this year or early next year.

"One of the features appearing for the first time is the handling of 16-bit variables - it's possible to perform two 16-bit operations at a time instead of one 32-bit operation," he says, confirming what we learned during our visit to VooFoo Studios to check out Mantis Burn Racing. "In other words, at full floats, we have 4.2 teraflops. With half-floats, it's now double that, which is to say, 8.4 teraflops in 16-bit computation. This has the potential to radically increase performance."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-inside-playstation-4-pro-how-sony-made-a-4k-games-machine

Scorpio will have a Next Gen GPU (next gen efficiencies so TF #'s are not equal as Vega >>> Polaris) with a 1.8 - 2 TF advantage (Greater than a full blown PS4 Console especially when taking into account the efficiencies of Vega over Polaris).

This ^^ say by you i find it very odd the only person here i have see using this ^^ argument is Dynamitecop,i know it because of the full PS4 bullshit he use to pull.

Let me tell you how this work,the GPU on scorpio is 42% stronger than the Pro,the gap in pixels between 1800p and 4k is like 44%,so scorpio need to push 44% more pixels to hit 4k than Pro, but only has 42% more GPU power to do so.

1800p = 5,760,000 Pixels + 44% = 8,294,400 which is actually 4k,you can fight and complain about this ^^ this is how it work with the PS4 and xbox one as well,the PSD4 has like 40% more GPU power so it does 1080p while the xbox one drops to 900p.

The PS3 is not 500Gflops is way less.

No as time has prove many times ESRAM is not as efficient as using 1 pool of fast ram,and ESRAM is to small.

Which is why some gaps on PS4 vs xbox exhibit a gap of 100% which is way bigger than the GPU gap is,as 720p vs 1080p is a higher than 100% gap in pixels.

If funny i can quote post from Dynamite cop using this ^^ same argument is that you man.? Hahahahaha

Can you provide a link to the price of the Scorpio. I wasn't aware they released the price and its a shame that its EXTREMELY expensive. I am looking forward to that link.

1. Can you honestly tell me that the Switch will not be the holiday sales winner dominating the Scorpio?

2. I'm sorry to break the news to you, but the Switch is more of a hybrid then anything else.

3. You're just embarrassed of the numbers flying around how many XB1 sold worldwide that it's easy for you to hide under a rock to remove yourself from reality.

Come on Dynamitecop you know i already refuted this silly argument,

4.2 + 42% = 5.964

1.3 + 40% = 1.82 TF

The PS4 is 1.84TF.

So again the whole PS4 argument is a joke the PS4 has like 2+ xbox 360 over the xbox one if you want to go that way.

More bandwidth but also more load on that bandwidth.

12GB on a 6TF GPU is over kill,the Fury X is 8.6TF and has 4GB,The titan Pascal is the only with 12GB but also has 12TF of performance that is double of scorpio,Ram wasn't an issue on this consoles vs last gen,not only their GPU have memory saving features they also have lots of memory.

The xbox one is 1.3 Scorpio has like 4 and half times the power of the xbox one.

The xbox 360 was like 230Gflops.

230Gflops X 5 = 1.150 TF which is lower than the xbox one,so the xbox one is like 5+ times stronger than the xbox 360,while scorpio is 4+ stronger than the xbox one,so no is not the biggest gap when you actually measure power from the previous unit.

@Pedro: serious question......

Do you know anything about how powerful the Scorpio is and how much that Hardware costs?

1. I expect Switch to win holiday sales compared to Scorpio. It's a handheld.
2. Nothing to break here. It's by far a handheld. Look at the specs, and what it's being targeted most for: on the road gaming. It's just too weak for a console. The multi-platform games won't even be exactly the same, and already there are titles that aren't being made for it. Handheld.
3. Embarrassed? I just don't know the numbers, and neither do you. Should we listen to analysts, who also don't know anything?

They both might do bad. The Switch is underpowered and overpriced and ect for what it is. The Scorpio will be very expensive.

You keep using the same excuse saying its a hand held, but it cost the same amount as a XB1s and PS4 Slim.

Only thing I see Switch killing is televisions with all of those jaggies.

Not that I have confidence in Scorpio, but the Switch looks like a steamer.

So in other words you don't have any data to back your claim on it being EXTREMELY expensive. Thanks.

The PS4 isn't even winning because of its power, it just does so many things better than the Xbone, that's why it's winning.

@Pedro: the Pro is $400.

It's far more powerful than that. So you do the math.

Firstly you have no evidence to back your claim. The Scorpio is less than 50% more powerful than the Pro. Its releasing a little over a year later. You should do the math or at least have some substance to back your claim.

I think the Switch is the biggest threat to Sony. One area Sony has the biggest and most significant edge over Xbox is the Japanese angle, since by default they get many Japanese console games being it's really the only marketable console on the Japanese market, but the Japanese being heavily into handheld gaming might move to one of the last handhelds on the market, and this will give Nintendo a significant edge over Sony on that end, without that advantage or the presumption of it then Sony loses a major asset, they'll be just like Xbox minus the few games that differentiate the line-up but are only a smaller portion of the bigger multiplatform realm, whereas Nintendo's line-up might potentially be much more unique by comparison. At that point the race between MS and Sony is a power competition, to a degree. Honestly though I think Microsoft's Scorpio wouldn't be hard to leapfrog power-wise in a year or two. Just like MS, Sony too can likely create a new console that's fully BC with PS4 to smooth over transitions to a new generation without that big generation jump, just gradual upgrades on both ends.

One thing that Sony does much better than MS too abroad is marketing. I've heard from Europeans, some who still are even MS/Xbox fans, is that Microsoft's Xbox marketing in the region is abysmal and nonexistent. Not sure, but I figure this failure stems from Kinect support and challenge of localizing voice commands and what limit that put on regional marketing; this still needs to be addressed. They did right by basically putting Kinect support behind them, but they need to remedy this bit.

Switch is a Sony/Microsoft killer

No switch isn't going to take anything from the Scorpio. It's not marketed to that crowd. The Nintendo fanboys need to face reality. Yeah Nintendo is advertiszing little millennial running around and using the switch, but come one the Switch is for parents/families. The hey you can buy your kids this and it's not using up your TV crowd. Or in my case hey you can buy this for your kids and hook it up and kick them off your gaming TV and play a real system!

The very same awakening they had after they tried to follow Wii formula , that of weaker hardware with motions controls as consoles primary experience.

I dont get what MS are thinking but to be fair we need to wait and see so we know for what we talking about.

Lems, "Scorpio will be $199."

Lol. Switch killing scorpio? They are going after two different markets.

How successful Scorpio becomes depends on MS really. It needs its own features and reasons to buy it. IMO, there is little reason to get a Pro if you already have a PS4 and don't have a 4K TV, unless you really must have the better hardware/performance which for most games hasn't been significant other than higher resolution.

They only are to Sony fanboys I think. Even most PC gamers these days don't care. Terraria, Minecraft and Overwatch are the games everyone wants to play.

Not sure a blogger from Japan = Forbes :P

@quadknight said:

@Sonicplys said:

Switch is a Sony/Microsoft killer

@lamprey263 said:

I think the Switch is the biggest threat to Sony.

Silly Nintendo fanboys.

Interesting way of spelling 'exclusives'.

I halfway agree. Sony is in too strong a position to get killed, but Nintendo is without a doubt on a come-up. I wouldn't be surprised a single bit if PS5 follows the design philosophy of the Switch and Nintendo counters with an upgraded "Pro" docking station the following year.

Unless MS commits to exclusives, the hardware cycle coming from Sony and Nintendo will be absolutely savage on them.

I want to read the article, but them fuckfaces at Forbes want me to turn off my adblock if I want to read their stupid website and I refuse to do such a thing.

It's four paragraphs long, if that, tbh. Not missing much.

Scorpio will be fine. Its the Switch that could be in more trouble.

At 4K, R9-390X class GPU will bottleneck i7 6700k OC. If the game continues to scale higher frame rates with higher grade video card while keeping the same CPU, then it's mostly GPU bound issue. Just look in Windows task manager. Vega 10 XT will scale fine on my existing i7-4790K OC.

Both of my gaming PCs has similar i7 Haswell CPUs with different GPUs. R9-390X is bottlenecking i7-4790K worst than 980 Ti with 25 percent factory overclock.

If the game continues to scale higher frame rates with higher grade CPU while keeping the same video card, then it's CPU bound issue.

PS4 Pro's GPU with two features from Vega doesn't include the work for faster clock speeds and it shows with it's Polaris level 2.5X perf/watt results.

Scorpio has a requirement for Oculus Rift VR hence Intel Core i5 4590 level CPU would do the job i.e. 8 core version is overkill.

For Rise of Tomb Raider.

HIS R9-390X OC (1070Mhz yields 6 TFLOPS) delivers typical game console like 31.7 fps frame rates with 4K and very high graphics settings. Reducing shadows settings will boost frame rates is my standard frame rate booster approach.

The top GTX 1070 OC at 1947 Mhz in the graph has about 7.48 TFLOPS with 48.8 fps.

The lowest GTX 1070 at 1683 Mhz in the graph has about 6.46 TFLOPS with 41.5 fps

The highest RX-480 OC at 1410 Mhz in the graph has about 6.49 TFLOPS with 33.6 fps.

Both RX-480 and GTX 1070 has the same GDDR5-8000 256bit setup. Pascal has higher tessellation, better delta memory compression and tile cache render boosters.

Vega's clock speed improvements will make 36 CU and 1300 Mhz chip yields better i.e. more chips meeting the performance target.

Will RTG have separate high clock speed improvement designs for Vega 10 and Scorpio's IGP?

The answer is No. Both the "whole new SOC" and 4096 shader processor GPU has Graphics IP v9.0 improvements.

Post the alternative secondary source that shows Scorpio will not have Vega IP.

Graphics IP v9.0 includes Vega's tile cache render improvements and higher clock speed per watts improvements.

Vega's higher clock speed designs affect everything inside the chip i.e. GCP, ROPS, CU, ACE, HWS, Geometry, L2 Cache, internal bus and 'etc'.

AMD didn't build PS4 Pro's GPU with dual clock speed domain like in NVIDIA's G80 with shader processors running at higher clock speed when compared to the rest of the chip.

Fury X's 4GB VRAM can be crippled e.g. Resident Evil 7.

That's with shadow cache disabled.

4GB VRAM was my issue with Fury X, hence 980 Ti 6 GB with 25 percent factory overclock (~7 TFLOPS) selection.

Higher memory bandwidth and higher FLOPS = more resources for different workload types.

Notice AMD is claiming "4K Gaming" and VR for Scorpio. This is not being a lemming.

According to AMD's guidelines, RX GPUs with greater than 256bit memory bus has 4K.

MS is just repeating AMD's desktop GPU structure guidelines.

he said his name was Forbes... have I been hoodwinked? My wallet went missing after I met him too... starting to wonder

One thing you'll notice about Lemmings is that unlike the Cows they want Nintendo and other competitors to do well because it's good for the industry. I'm glad that Nintendo is going to do well. Nintendo by far has the Best 1st party and I would hate for them to do poorly.

@xantufrog: lol

So click bait is a thing now at least pretend your vetting your sources.

@EG101: Really? Because, when I joined SW, the Lems were an absolute death cult for the PS3.

Scorpio's APU size is identical to XBO's APU size.

PS4 Pro's APU chip

PS4 Slim with 209 mm^2 size chip

http://news.mydrivers.com/1/507/507389.htm

仔细观察，PS4 Pro的APU晶体面积更大，通过卡尺测量其长宽分别为22.8×14.6毫米，面积约为321.9平方毫米，而CXD90043GB的面积则为212.5平方毫米。因此，PS4 Pro的APU晶体面积就是PS4-2000大约1.57倍。

Carefully observed, PS4 Pro APU crystal area larger, measured by the caliper length and width of 22.8 × 14.6 mm, an area of about 321.9 square millimeters, while the CXD90043GB area was 212.5 square millimeters.

Scorpio's cgi APU chip with 362 mm^2.

Scorpio's APU is larger than PS4 Pro's APU which indicates different GPU and CPU parts i.e. Scorpio's APU is not just an overclocked PS4 Pro APU!!!!

In a way...i'm agree...the Scorpio sounds so boring, just like the PS4 Pro.

With that being said, the Switch doesn't sounds that great either, but if it grabs the mainstream attention, it will definitely sell far more than the Scorpio.

I feel bad for Nintendo. I wanted Nintendo to well but the Switch makes it tough for me to want the Switch to do well. They have to learn. The hype has been really strong for it. How it will do is a mystery to me.

I get linked to their site so often that I disabled it just for their site. Not a big deal, they don't really go ad spam crazy on you anyways.

What does cost have to do with it? The PS Vita was $250-$300 when it released, so that's also a console then? Really a bad argument.

When you look at the specs, and how they are marketing the switch, it's clearly a handheld.