I think everyone here understands why the Pro is having issues and it is 100% the CPU not really being upgraded. This thing is super CPU bound like crazy and they needed something better then Jaguar cores. Oh well it will still be fun to mess with and if I don't like it they still have good resale value. HA!
I'm sure the PS4 version runs just fine and that the pro version runs slightly better, as will be the case for pretty much every other game that comes out. The truly important thing the Pro has done in my eyes is drop the price of the PS4 to $250. That is just a really good value to come at a time when the PS4 is finally getting some quality exclusives.
GPU shader power: Scorpio is 1.03X faster than RX-480
Memory bandwidth: Scorpio is 1.25X faster than RX-480
Link to MS confirming 100% it is Vega and not Polaris refresh or custom polaris like Pro.
Link to where MS claim that 320GB/s is ONLY and solely for GPU,because the RX480 bandwidth isn't share with any CPU.
I stated Vega's tile/polygon binning cache rendering will be very important for Nvidia Gameworks titles and I made no mention for Scorpio will be using Vega 11. With that being said, Phil Spencer has stated that Scorpio will be using AMD's year 2017 IP blocks.
If Polaris 10 XT2 still has lesser SKUs that did not reach 6 TFLOPS minimum/worst case working chip yield, then it's not the correct IP block.
Salvage Polaris 10 XT2 RX-570 must have 6 TFLOPS as the minimum/worst case working chip yield!!! Can you guarantee the worst case working yield for Polaris 10 XT2 reaches 6 TFLOPS?
That's "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth" e.g. GDDR5-7000 x 384 bit has 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth. GDDR5-7000 is used in PS4 Pro.
Any memory controller inefficiencies are regained by Polaris delta memory compression.
PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) has similar role to PS4's CPU's I/O.
RX-480 has 256 GB/s physical memory bandwidth with 264 GB/s effective memory bandwidth.
From the benchmarks, RX-480/R9-390X is bottlenecking the CPU since the same CPU can still drive Titan X Pascal to higher frame rates i.e. PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) is not being reached for RX-480/R9-390X class GPUs.
Note that 32 bit x GDDR5-7000 delivers 27 GB/s of bandwidth which is more than PS4's peak 20 GB/s CPU bandwidth to memory but the reality is PS4's CPU consumes about 10 GB/s. 60 hz would limit CPU's usage and that's 2X over PS4's real world CPU memory bandwidth usage.
That's "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth". GDDR5-7000 x 384 bit has 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth. Any memory controller inefficiencies are regained by Polaris delta memory compression.
PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) has similar role to PS4's CPU's I/O.
RX-480 has 256 GB/s physical memory bandwidth with 264 GB/s effective memory bandwidth.
From the benchmarks, RX-480 and R9-390X is bottlenecking the CPU since the same CPU can still Titan X Pascal to higher frame rates i.e. PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) is not being reached for RX-480/R9-390X class GPUs.
More than 320GB is 321GB so stop it.
Second i can see you have no links confirming any of the things i ask..
When you do post them and don't post vague quotes of Phil Spencer saying they wanted something else,please a link confirming 100% is Vega,and another confirming that 320GB/s is only GPU and not shared good luck.
@KBFloYd: Almost half the video is based on just how close the Pro version is to the latest, most advanced PC (even then, 60fps is difficult and some effects have to be turned off) and yet you twist it into a negative?
The differences he did mentioned will have to reuiqre you to pause the game and actually zoom in to make out.
Ultimately, you failed with your thread because its the opposite of the video and the video itself is literally making a mountain out of a mole hill.
That's "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth". GDDR5-7000 x 384 bit has 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth. Any memory controller inefficiencies are regained by Polaris delta memory compression.
PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) has similar role to PS4's CPU's I/O.
RX-480 has 256 GB/s physical memory bandwidth with 264 GB/s effective memory bandwidth.
From the benchmarks, RX-480 and R9-390X is bottlenecking the CPU since the same CPU can still Titan X Pascal to higher frame rates i.e. PC's PCI-Express version 3 16X link(16 GB/s read + 16 GB/s write) is not being reached for RX-480/R9-390X class GPUs.
More than 320GB is 321GB so stop it.
Second i can see you have no links confirming any of the things i ask..
When you do post them and don't post vague quotes of Phil Spencer saying they wanted something else,please a link confirming 100% is Vega,and another confirming that 320GB/s is only GPU and not shared good luck.
That's not using the standard GDDR5-7000 memory timings. Try again.
Lowest P10 SKU RX-470D, RX-470 Mobile and PS4 Pro used GDDR5-7000 standard memory timings.
If Polaris 10 XT2 still has lesser SKUs that did not reach 6 TFLOPS minimum/worst case working chip yield, then it's not the correct IP block.
Salvage Polaris 10 XT2 RX-570 must have 6 TFLOPS as the minimum/worst case working chip yield!!! Can you guarantee the worst case working yield for Polaris 10 XT2 reaches 6 TFLOPS?
AMD is working to get the yields high enough with 6 TFLOPS as the worst case working chip. AMD is getting closer but may miss the target with Polaris XT2 refresh. AMD might hit 5.5 TFLOPS for RX-570 hence PS4 Pro's Option B".
60 hz only doubles PS4 Pro's 30 hz AI/command list gen CPU output and it looks like it wouldn't saturate PCI-E version 3.0 16X(16 GB/s read and 16 GB/s write) slot.
@Pedro: @kingtito: On the contrary, Bizzaro world is where the CancelBone is not a POS water cooler with 6/10 flops for games. A world where you lems constantly live.
I think everyone here understands why the Pro is having issues and it is 100% the CPU not really being upgraded. This thing is super CPU bound like crazy and they needed something better then Jaguar cores. Oh well it will still be fun to mess with and if I don't like it they still have good resale value. HA!
And after the CPU comes the Bandwidth. The base PS4 was already bandwidth starved, which is why so many games had issues with AF even though it hardly consumes any. Now imagine how much worse it must be for the Pro when its GPU is twice as powerful as the original yet the bandwidth only went up by 20%.
@KBFloYd: Almost half the video is based on just how close the Pro version is to the latest, most advanced PC (even then, 60fps is difficult and some effects have to be turned off) and yet you twist it into a negative?
The differences he did mentioned will have to reuiqre you to pause the game and actually zoom in to make out.
Ultimately, you failed with your thread because its the opposite of the video and the video itself is literally making a mountain out of a mole hill.
bro, the resolution difference at the beginning of the video is just the beginning. keep watching. for all the other more noticeable downgrades.
@Xabiss: ? "Review scores don't matter when your games are flopping" - Lems 2017
BTW my shinny new PS4Pro will be here on Monday just in time for me to dig into Horizon on release day! Oh what life is like not to be a fanboy or a hater, but to be a TRUE GAMER!!!!
Awwww yeahhhhh! Welcome to the Pro club my friend. You will not be disappointed.
BOOM! Just got FedEx notice they are going to deliver my PS4 Pro on Saturday! Hell yeah I love the smell of new tech on my days off!
I think everyone here understands why the Pro is having issues and it is 100% the CPU not really being upgraded. This thing is super CPU bound like crazy and they needed something better then Jaguar cores. Oh well it will still be fun to mess with and if I don't like it they still have good resale value. HA!
And after the CPU comes the Bandwidth. The base PS4 was already bandwidth starved, which is why so many games had issues with AF even though it hardly consumes any. Now imagine how much worse it must be for the Pro when its GPU is twice as powerful as the original yet the bandwidth only went up by 20%.
It's ~1.7X effective memory bandwidth higher on PS4 Pro
PS4's effective memory bandwidth is ~135 GB/s
PS4 Pro's effective memory bandwidth is ~228 GB/s. PS4 Pro's GPU has memory delta compression.
----
CPU is 1.3X higher on PS4 Pro. If the PS4 game was budgeted for 30 hz with 1.6 Ghz CPUs, 2.1 Ghz may not be enough for 60 hz e.g double the GPU command list generation.
@KBFloYd: huh? The guy clearly states there's not a big difference in terms of resolution. He also, very clearly, mentions tha trunning the game, at its very best, with all effects, even on the latest cutting edge gaming pc will not give you a smooth 60 fps, so whats your point about the comparison?
I also mentioned the rest of the video, in which he talks about other lsight differences in which he actually has to pause the game and zoom in to show us lol thats full on nonsensical...and it gets worse, because he actually says most of the differences can't be seen while in motion. So again, whats the point?
@KBFloYd: huh? The guy clearly states there's not a big difference in terms of resolution. He also, very clearly, mentions tha trunning the game, at its very best, with all effects, even on the latest cutting edge gaming pc will not give you a smooth 60 fps, so whats your point about the comparison?
I also mentioned the rest of the video, in which he talks about other lsight differences in which he actually has to pause the game and zoom in to show us lol thats full on nonsensical...and it gets worse, because he actually says most of the differences can't be seen while in motion. So again, whats the point?
Useless thread tbh.
i thinking you are putting words in his mouth.
he pointed out all the flaws. resolution only 1440p instead of 1800... fps down to 30 instead of 60. shadows worse, ambient occlusion worse, particle effects and other effects look worse. as well as something about geometry being worse. i forget that part.
what more do you want? saying all those things put together are insignificant is just...well...cow talk.
@Pedro: @kingtito: On the contrary, Bizzaro world is where the CancelBone is not a POS water cooler with 6/10 flops for games. A world where you lems constantly live.
It's also where you're not mad and melting down every other day.
@KBFloYd: huh? The guy clearly states there's not a big difference in terms of resolution. He also, very clearly, mentions tha trunning the game, at its very best, with all effects, even on the latest cutting edge gaming pc will not give you a smooth 60 fps, so whats your point about the comparison?
I also mentioned the rest of the video, in which he talks about other lsight differences in which he actually has to pause the game and zoom in to show us lol thats full on nonsensical...and it gets worse, because he actually says most of the differences can't be seen while in motion. So again, whats the point?
Useless thread tbh.
i thinking you are putting words in his mouth.
he pointed out all the flaws. resolution only 1440p instead of 1800... fps down to 30 instead of 60. shadows worse, ambient occlusion worse, particle effects and other effects look worse. as well as something about geometry being worse. i forget that part.
what more do you want? saying all those things put together are insignificant is just...well...cow talk.
Higher primitive geometry before tessellation stage requires higher CPU compute power. If you have more geometry edges, that more shaders applied for additional edges.
PS4 Pro's 5.5 GB memory storage for game use is shared between CPU and GPU sides while RX-470's 4GB is just game's graphics assets and frame buffer (when at full screen mode). Normal PS4 has 5 GB for it's games. There's very little room for PC's higher texture assets, additional frame buffers and effects caches.
If XBO's OS allocation is kept, Scorpio's game memory storage allocation would be 9 GB.
PS4 Pro's extra 1 GB DDR3 for OS usage is just half assed effort.
I am sure you can see the humor kbfloyd post,he is trap with 2001 graphics on the wii u... And dare to make fun of the pro..hahahhaa
Yeah.,, the PC wins again. PS Pro runs at 1440p native at 30fps. Compared to the PC, the framerate looks pretty bad on the PS4 Pro. It'll be interesting to see what the Scorpio version looks like and what resolution it will run in. I'll probably wait to get this game. I don't have a PS4 Pro or Scorpio yet, so it'll be a waiting game. This game isn't for the Switch, so why would there be a comparison? lol!! El Tormo drumming up nonsense once again.
They got a $400 console version running next to literally a $3000 PC version and you still can't tell the difference lmfao! They even tried to zoom in 1000X on some pebble in the distance to show off dat PC powah! Lol! Whew. Hermits must be butthurt as a MF this gen. All that money down the drain just for indiscernible differences on garbage Ubisoft ports. It's like you paid for a high end hooker and got stuck with a TS. HAHAHAHA! Ahhh so good. Lemmings watch out. It'll be even worse for Xbone 2. Lol!
PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/xFTLqk Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/xFTLqk/by_merchant/
CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz base clock with 3.7 Ghz Turbo 8-Core Processor ($329.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($170.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-4000 Memory ($199.97 @ Jet)
Where did you hear the low/med settings? Nowhere was this mentioned in the video. He said that the shadow quality is of a "LOWER" quality (duh!! its like that in every single game), not set on Low.
Most things in that video were painted as a positive for the PS4 Pro. "The Pro version does hold up pretty well with the PC." "In terms of the key points, it's a pretty good match." Yet everyone here at System Wars is dogging the thing like we're looking at 720p and 15 fps. And lets not forget, the PS4 Pro is $399. That PC is running a $1500 GPU... AND they still had to turn things down to get it to run at 60fps. Yet we will have PC gamers here acting like they all can run it at 4K and 60fps. This place is full of a bunch of clowns.
@dakur: Horizon is also 30 fps on ps4 pro so what's your point? Blaming the develpoers is just an excuse for shifting the goalpost. The fact is and will remain that ps4 pro has weak cpu and graphic intensive games just won't run better on it.
This thread is far more negative about the Pro than the actual video. All I got from the video was that the PC version is better (obviously), but the Pro version is just fine. Plus the Pro is $400 compared to a high end computer's cost. You can build a good PC for a good price, but obviously it's absurd to compared a high end computer to a half way upgrade console. The appeal of the Pro is its value. It's good to buy one if you're looking for a better version of the PS4 (if you didn't have one).
@goldenelementxl: gtx 1060 runs this game at 80-90fps at ultra(personal experience) and that card is like 250-300$ card. Build your PC around this card or even rx 480 and you don't have to shell out 1500$ on PC.Not every PC has to have gtx 1080.
And the point was not that PC is better than ps4 pro(every sane one will know this) but that ps4 pro doesn't improve on ps4. You are still getting 30 fps.
@goldenelementxl: gtx 1060 runs this game at 80-90fps at ultra(personal experience) and that card is like 250-300$ card. Build your PC around this card or even rx 480 and you don't have to shell out 1500$ on PC.Not every PC has to have gtx 1080.
And the point was not that PC is better than ps4 pro(every sane one will know this) but that ps4 pro doesn't improve on ps4. You are still getting 30 fps.
But the Pro version does improve on the PS4 version... There is a pretty big jump (1440p vs 1080p) in resolution.
A 1060 isn't going to run the game at 80-90fps "ultra" at 4K, which is what the video was analyzing. Also, according to the video neither GPU is capable of an absolute 60fps (1060 or RX 480) at 1080p. (professional experience) Meaning neither GPU could hit an "absolute" 60 fps at 1440p, aka the resolution the PS4 Pro is upscaling from. At $399... 60fps is a big deal, yes. But 30fps, for console gamers at a budget price is more than acceptable.
Here are some 1440p benchmarks with a $350 CPU at 4.9 freakin GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM and a huge SSD. Sub 60fps with anything below a R9 Fury nonetheless!!!
@goldenelementxl: Ah! okay then. I was considering 1080p. My bad.
I guess it all depends on the person then, see I don't care for higher resolution if my fps is going to suffer but if ps4 pro users care for higher resolution than higher fps then I don't see any problem.
@goldenelementxl: Ah! okay then. I was considering 1080p. My bad.
I guess it all depends on the person then, see I don't care for higher resolution if my fps is going to suffer but if ps4 pro users care for higher resolution than higher fps then I don't see any problem.
It's all good. I'm actually on your side when it comes to fps vs resolution. I just don't really understand the PS4 Pro bashing here when we've been counting pixels so closely when it's PS4 vs Xbox One, but now none of that matters? Lems laugh at the PS4 Pro when they now have the 3rd best console on the market. Yes the Scorpio is on the horizon, but I have a feeling the goal posts will move again when it under-performs vs the PC, the same way they boast the Ps4 Pro does.
Also lol @ Ubisoft. They should learn from real devs like GG how to make a game.
GG has created 30 fps game and Horizon Dawn is not available for PCs hence comparisons can not be made.
60 fps patch that swings the rendering bias towards frame rate over graphic quality is after the game's release i.e. it's additional work to extract 60 fps.
@goldenelementxl: gtx 1060 runs this game at 80-90fps at ultra(personal experience) and that card is like 250-300$ card. Build your PC around this card or even rx 480 and you don't have to shell out 1500$ on PC.Not every PC has to have gtx 1080.
And the point was not that PC is better than ps4 pro(every sane one will know this) but that ps4 pro doesn't improve on ps4. You are still getting 30 fps.
But the Pro version does improve on the PS4 version... There is a pretty big jump (1440p vs 1080p) in resolution.
A 1060 isn't going to run the game at 80-90fps "ultra" at 4K, which is what the video was analyzing. Also, according to the video neither GPU is capable of an absolute 60fps (1060 or RX 480) at 1080p. (professional experience) Meaning neither GPU could hit an "absolute" 60 fps at 1440p, aka the resolution the PS4 Pro is upscaling from. At $399... 60fps is a big deal, yes. But 30fps, for console gamers at a budget price is more than acceptable.
Here are some 1440p benchmarks with a $350 CPU at 4.9 freakin GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM and a huge SSD. Sub 60fps with anything below a R9 Fury nonetheless!!!
RX-480 8 GB has 62 fps minimum with 79 average.
For Honor is NVIDIA Gameworks title with DX11
https://developer.nvidia.com/dx12-dos-and-donts
On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible
Nvidia DX11 driver already used key DX12 speed up methods i.e. Async tasks and multi-threading.
AMD catches up with Async tasks and multi-threading features with DX12.
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