lol so sony hasn't even started development of a dx12 alternative and somehow Microsoft have been owned?
they haven't even got a team together to start the process! lol
all this article shows is that sony cant innovate, has shit itself on what dx12 can do and now has to copy everything Microsoft does.
What.?
LibGNM is like mantle what MS is basically aiming for,the PS4 have tools which are lower level that your average DX,which is what MS is chasing now with DX12,but wait those tools were also on PS3 for years,while MS DX version on 360 was lower than PC but not quite as low as the PS3..
Sony is copying sh** from MS,and the article is a little misleading.
I could be wrong, but from what I gather, a low level api reduces the overheads on the CPU. But what this could be about is the feature of spreading processing evenly across the CPU cores.
"You can see that DirectX12 balances the workload between threads better and gets home first. What makes this possible is difficult to say at anything more than a top level view:
"... it provides a lower level of hardware abstraction than ever before, allowing games to significantly improve multithread scaling and CPU utilization. ""
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm not sure but that's what I'm getting from this. "Sony working on improving multithreading and parallel processing for PS4 and PS3", was the first thing TC said.
I'm not saying they copied MS, but they could have been inspired by them. Waiting until now to improve the way the CPU is used in the PS3, it's a bit late in the day.
All along THE ONE had hidden hardware to run DX12. Secret sauce confirmed. There is still more to the hardware we don't know about.
Now the bare ass mobo on the PS4 is well known. Any changes Sony tries to dream up will on come from the software side as their broke ass didn't include hardware for the future.
I could be wrong, but from what I gather, a low level api reduces the overheads on the CPU. But what this could be about is the feature of spreading processing evenly across the CPU cores.
"You can see that DirectX12 balances the workload between threads better and gets home first. What makes this possible is difficult to say at anything more than a top level view:
"... it provides a lower level of hardware abstraction than ever before, allowing games to significantly improve multithread scaling and CPU utilization. ""
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm not sure but that's what I'm getting from this. "Sony working on improving multithreading and parallel processing for PS4 and PS3", was the first thing TC said.
I'm not saying they copied MS, but they could have been inspired by them. Waiting until now to improve the way the CPU is used in the PS3, it's a bit late in the day.
That is what CPU over head is dude,MS just use a different angle to everything in an attend to fool people into thinking is xbox or windows exclusive,didn't they call Tile Resources windows 8 and xbox one exclusive.?
Tile resources = Partially Resident textures which in not way are exclusives.
What about Data Move Engines.? All GPU on AMD have this instead of been call DME they are call DMA,MS always does this to try to trick people into believing they have something different.
How about the 15 different processors the xbox one had inside.? which the PS4 didn't have.?
Which are on PS4 as well almost all of them..
MS just love to change names and put spin on things to fool people into thinking is something new.
The demo they showed wasn't for the xbox one,why they didn't show it for the xbox one.? Because the xbox one CPU already spread is workload better than PC,the demo was done on PC for that reason because the biggest gain could be show on PC,what they showed wasn't impressive didn't have AI or complex effects,it was just a simple demo which also tent to increase performance since you are doing pretty much nothing,compare it with the demo AMD and Nvidia always do for their cards,you know incredible looking demos using the hardware full spec but because they lack AI or anything intensive they look better than a real game look by a long shot.
No better than Sony in the PS1 days using FMV to represent games,or MS doing it with the xbox and 360 as well.
@FoxbatAlpha said:
All along THE ONE had hidden hardware to run DX12. Secret sauce confirmed. There is still more to the hardware we don't know about.
Now the bare ass mobo on the PS4 is well known. Any changes Sony tries to dream up will on come from the software side as their broke ass didn't include hardware for the future.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..
I just hope and pray to god that you don't get ban so in a few years when the xbox one fail to catch the PS4 i can make some fun of you,...hahaha
OP has clearly owned himself and has no idea about anything related to software programming. First of all this will takes YEARS!!! So expect something like this in about 2018-2019 not to mention it won't be anywhere near DX and honestly LMFAO at Sony doing anything like this they are a hardware company not a software company this will end up being nothing more then a driver update when finished.
MS started to work on DX12 last year and it will be deliver by 2015,oh and that is on PC where there is different brand of GPU and more than 200 models.
The xbox one already have DX12 features it doesn't take 300 years to implement those on consoles since consoles are closed environments.
That bold part show how biased and butthurt you are,how do you know sony API will not be any where near.? Really how.?
Sony is a hardware company yet on this moment has better tools than MS and more mature ones to,so how did sony pulled that.? Because that is the excuse you have been using for months to justify the crap performance of the xbox one that tools are bad on xbox one,how come sony ones are good if no one can do it like MS.?
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Don't get ban dude i want to keep making fun of you as game after game keep coming in inferior form on xbox one..lol
I appreciate that you're trying to highlight some irony here Shew, even if you have to explicitly have to explain it to willfully deaf ears.
Servers normally cause performance issues, not alleviate them. Just look at Diablo 3.
APIs are always a work in progress and the DX12 threads are hollow hype, even Wasdie the closet lem, agrees.
Ah, you get it! I was hoping "Final Form Sauce" would have tipped people off, but people really take defending their console seriously these days. Wasdie does prefer XBox, for sure, but he's not a bad dude.
OP has clearly owned himself and has no idea about anything related to software programming. First of all this will takes YEARS!!! So expect something like this in about 2018-2019 not to mention it won't be anywhere near DX and honestly LMFAO at Sony doing anything like this they are a hardware company not a software company this will end up being nothing more then a driver update when finished.
I'm just going to throw this out there, but, what if they already have a team of people doing this stuff and need more? You're just assuming this is the beginning of something and not an object already in motion.
All along THE ONE had hidden hardware to run DX12. Secret sauce confirmed. There is still more to the hardware we don't know about.
Now the bare ass mobo on the PS4 is well known. Any changes Sony tries to dream up will on come from the software side as their broke ass didn't include hardware for the future.
We know everything about the hardware, Justin. It's shit.
That is what CPU over head is dude,MS just use a different angle to everything in an attend to fool people into thinking is xbox or windows exclusive,didn't they call Tile Resources windows 8 and xbox one exclusive.?
Tile resources = Partially Resident textures which in not way are exclusives.
What about Data Move Engines.? All GPU on AMD have this instead of been call DME they are call DMA,MS always does this to try to trick people into believing they have something different.
How about the 15 different processors the xbox one had inside.? which the PS4 didn't have.?
Which are on PS4 as well almost all of them..
MS just love to change names and put spin on things to fool people into thinking is something new.
The demo they showed wasn't for the xbox one,why they didn't show it for the xbox one.? Because the xbox one CPU already spread is workload better than PC,the demo was done on PC for that reason because the biggest gain could be show on PC,what they showed wasn't impressive didn't have AI or complex effects,it was just a simple demo which also tent to increase performance since you are doing pretty much nothing,compare it with the demo AMD and Nvidia always do for their cards,you know incredible looking demos using the hardware full spec but because they lack AI or anything intensive they look better than a real game look by a long shot.
No better than Sony in the PS1 days using FMV to represent games,or MS doing it with the xbox and 360 as well.
@FoxbatAlpha said:
All along THE ONE had hidden hardware to run DX12. Secret sauce confirmed. There is still more to the hardware we don't know about.
Now the bare ass mobo on the PS4 is well known. Any changes Sony tries to dream up will on come from the software side as their broke ass didn't include hardware for the future.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..
I just hope and pray to god that you don't get ban so in a few years when the xbox one fail to catch the PS4 i can make some fun of you,...hahaha
It will be as epic as last NPD thread..hahahaa
Bubutbu Titanfall will save the xbox...lol
Tormentos this is why you have no credibility on this site, you blindly argue not knowing a thing or using select points.
Prt and tiled resources are not exactly the same. Ps4 uses PRT which is done using software which has limitations and takes a toll on the system. Tiled resources is done at the hardware level and removes all of the limitations that come with PRT. Tiled resources are exclusive to Xbox but not PRT. Look it up and prove me right or post a link saying otherwise. Don't worry I'll wait.
The cloud works. Period. Fanboys keep doubting it when its working right in front of them. Internet speeds are not that slow anymore it takes about 10 min to Dl a 500mb zip file on a 3mb connection and xbox has hardware dedicated to uncompressing files and downloading from the cloud without affecting the system. Last year M$ used the cloud demo to run halo on windows phones you know, but we forget all that stuff, the cloud is more complicated than the PS4 cloud but its working now, while Sony has yet to fire up a measly 8,000 servers compared to 300,000 on xbox. Why is Sony trying to hire people to do this now why didn't they build the PS4 like this? Maybe because they are using an outdated architecture that their competition made popular almost 10 years ago. Its gotta suck when you go around to devs and they tell you they want your system to be more like the competitions. Xbox 360 made the unified architecture popular and Sony followed suite. Now with this whole DX12 Sony has no choice but to get better programmers to match AMd, Nvidia, and, MS, these three companies know more about the future of software and hardware than Sony ever will. AMD and Nvidia speak highly about DX even though they have their own API's that are essentially the same. With Amd, Nvidia and M$ changing how they develop PS4 could be the oddball once again this gen as devs will go with whats more popular because it will become the standard for the industry if these three companies want it to be. I bet if Sony knew M$ wasn't going with a unified architecture they would not have either. M$ gets to play both sides of the fence being able to work with Nvidia and Amd, Sony would have to outsmart all three of these companies to make their way of programming the norm. Expect to see tiled resources built into dgpu in the future as devs move away from PRT. MS is not changing the names on anything they are doing what they do best and that's leading the industry in innovation and universal developing, second to Apple of course in the innovation department.
Congrats you owned them Xbox fanboys by sounding like an utter Ps fanboy........
System wars at it's finest here!
Why so serious? You have to admit, after seeing the myriad of threads about discreet gpus and DX12, this is icing on the cake. It's not System Wars if you're not having fun with this stuff man.
True, its all in fun. But an ad to hire a software person? Putting that against a company that is a software giant?
Congrats you owned them Xbox fanboys by sounding like an utter Ps fanboy........
System wars at it's finest here!
Why so serious? You have to admit, after seeing the myriad of threads about discreet gpus and DX12, this is icing on the cake. It's not System Wars if you're not having fun with this stuff man.
True, its all in fun. But an ad to hire a software person? Putting that against a company that is a software giant?
Microsofts size has sweet ****-all to do with it. I mean, they had to ship the XBone without an OS and Crytek needed the tools to be rebuilt because they were shit for Ryse. I get it that you're not a die-hard XBox fan or anything like that, but you give them a whole lotta unearned credit. At least, nothing they've done in the 8th gen has told me they have infinite resources when it comes to their software library.
In fact, they still haven't shipped to a lot of countries they promised to ship to originally because of Kinect integration and localization. So, you'll have to pardon me if "but they're a software company" doesn't hold quite the same level of gravitas as it used to in these debates. Either the hardware is hopelessly complicated and holding them back, or they have so much development power devoted to Windows 9 or some other product that the XBone is getting the short end of the stick in Redmond these days.
Off topic, but I hope someone that knows that much about programming makes a ton of money. Seems like so much knowledge and studying required in order to get the job done. Thanks to everyone that creates our games!
Off topic, but I hope someone that knows that much about programming makes a ton of money. Seems like so much knowledge and studying required in order to get the job done. Thanks to everyone that creates our games!
I could be wrong, but from what I gather, a low level api reduces the overheads on the CPU. But what this could be about is the feature of spreading processing evenly across the CPU cores.
"You can see that DirectX12 balances the workload between threads better and gets home first. What makes this possible is difficult to say at anything more than a top level view:
"... it provides a lower level of hardware abstraction than ever before, allowing games to significantly improve multithread scaling and CPU utilization. ""
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm not sure but that's what I'm getting from this. "Sony working on improving multithreading and parallel processing for PS4 and PS3", was the first thing TC said.
I'm not saying they copied MS, but they could have been inspired by them. Waiting until now to improve the way the CPU is used in the PS3, it's a bit late in the day.
That is what CPU over head is dude,MS just use a different angle to everything in an attend to fool people into thinking is xbox or windows exclusive,didn't they call Tile Resources windows 8 and xbox one exclusive.?
Tile resources = Partially Resident textures which in not way are exclusives.
What about Data Move Engines.? All GPU on AMD have this instead of been call DME they are call DMA,MS always does this to try to trick people into believing they have something different.
How about the 15 different processors the xbox one had inside.? which the PS4 didn't have.?
Which are on PS4 as well almost all of them..
MS just love to change names and put spin on things to fool people into thinking is something new.
The demo they showed wasn't for the xbox one,why they didn't show it for the xbox one.? Because the xbox one CPU already spread is workload better than PC,the demo was done on PC for that reason because the biggest gain could be show on PC,what they showed wasn't impressive didn't have AI or complex effects,it was just a simple demo which also tent to increase performance since you are doing pretty much nothing,compare it with the demo AMD and Nvidia always do for their cards,you know incredible looking demos using the hardware full spec but because they lack AI or anything intensive they look better than a real game look by a long shot.
No better than Sony in the PS1 days using FMV to represent games,or MS doing it with the xbox and 360 as well.
Is CPU overhead the same as improved multi-threading and whatever?
If this is the case, why would Sony still need/want to do this for the PS3 and PS4. They're already low level, no?
Bad weekend for lemmings. First they lose NPD, then one of the few decent 360 exclusives in the back end of its life is better on the PS4, now they lose their so-called DX12 advantage.
Tormentos this is why you have no credibility on this site, you blindly argue not knowing a thing or using select points.
Prt and tiled resources are not exactly the same. Ps4 uses PRT which is done using software which has limitations and takes a toll on the system. Tiled resources is done at the hardware level and removes all of the limitations that come with PRT. Tiled resources are exclusive to Xbox but not PRT. Look it up and prove me right or post a link saying otherwise. Don't worry I'll wait.
The cloud works. Period. Fanboys keep doubting it when its working right in front of them.
Internet speeds are not that slow anymore it takes about 10 min to Dl a 500mb zip file on a 3mb connection and xbox has hardware dedicated to uncompressing files and downloading from the cloud without affecting the system.
Last year M$ used the cloud demo to run halo on windows phones you know, but we forget all that stuff, the cloud is more complicated than the PS4 cloud but its working now, while Sony has yet to fire up a measly 8,000 servers compared to 300,000 on xbox.
Why is Sony trying to hire people to do this now why didn't they build the PS4 like this? Maybe because they are using an outdated architecture that their competition made popular almost 10 years ago. Its gotta suck when you go around to devs and they tell you they want your system to be more like the competitions.
Xbox 360 made the unified architecture popular and Sony followed suite.
Now with this whole DX12 Sony has no choice but to get better programmers to match AMd, Nvidia, and, MS, these three companies know more about the future of software and hardware than Sony ever will.
AMD and Nvidia speak highly about DX even though they have their own API's that are essentially the same.
With Amd, Nvidia and M$ changing how they develop PS4 could be the oddball once again this gen as devs will go with whats more popular because it will become the standard for the industry if these three companies want it to be.
I bet if Sony knew M$ wasn't going with a unified architecture they would not have either. M$ gets to play both sides of the fence being able to work with Nvidia and Amd, Sony would have to outsmart all three of these companies to make their way of programming the norm.
Expect to see tiled resources built into dgpu in the future as devs move away from PRT. MS is not changing the names on anything they are doing what they do best and that's leading the industry in innovation and universal developing, second to Apple of course in the innovation department.
Hold up, wait. Which system do you own again?
Yeah you really know me you have 2 months here and you really know me...lol
Tile Resources is what MS claim will expose PRT,is the same sh** dressed with a different name.
One of the new features of DirectX 11.2 and now OpenGL 4.4 isTiled Resources. Tiled Resources allow to manage one large texture in "hardware" tiles and implement a megatexture approach. The advantage of using the hardware for this compared to the software solution that was used before are: - no dependent texture read necessary - hardware filtering works including anisotropic filtering AMD offers an OpenGL extension for this as well and it is available on all newer AMD GPUs. NVIDIA has shown it running on the build conference on DirectX 11.2. So there is a high chance that it is available on a large part of the console and PC market soon. Let's step one step back and see what challenge a Megatexture is supposed to solve. In Open World games, we solve the challenge of having a high detail in textures with two techniques:
Megatextures is what Carmack use to call them when they were just software supported by opengl,and not hardware supported,see how OpenGl 4.4 already has this as well.?
The PS4 API support DX11.2 and OpenGL4.4 features + some of sony as well,this isn't new is old only fanboys like you ignore it because well you know sh** about what your talking..
What's that Tile resources on PS4.? I have been telling you people this for months,any feature MS can support on the xbox one GPU or CPU can be done on the PS4 as well,they are the same damn hardware,and it is the same crap basically.
1-The cloud is a joke and will not make the xbox one jump from 10 times the power of the 360 to 40 times like MS claim,internet speed just doesn't cut it for it.
2-Internet speed are utter sh** compare with the bandwidth require to do anything meaningful for graphics,actually a 4Mb connection will take like 30+ minutes to download 1Gb.
Multiply 30 minutes 176 times and the end result is what will take you to download 176Gb of data over the internet when the damn PS4 does it in 1 freaking second,is not even close..
3-Yeah because streaming a videos game like Onlive did is the same as rendering over a damn internet connection,using online you can stream video games to the original xbox which was a 2001 console,is not the same streaming a video with some latency like Online did to what MS claimed in the first place.
4-That bold part is silly the xbox one and PS4 use the same hardware,minus ESRAM and few other things,why don't yu ask Bethesda who want skyrim to work without xbox live gold,yet MS refuse while on PS4 it will not require double did,how about developers who make games work between PC and PS4.? You can play with PC players again that can't be done on xbox one,and is funny because developers pass last gen asking MS why live could be as open as PSN..lol
5-That second bold part really make me chuckle,you are under the impression that unified ram on xbox 360,is the same as what sony did with the PS4.? The PS4 is HSA and hUMA even with its unified memory the xbox 360 wasn't HSA complaint or hUMA,unified ram is not the same as hUMA.
But if you want to talk about copy paste,the PS2 had Embedded ram on its GPU,the original xbox didn't the xbox 360 had is EDRAM and the xbox one as well ESRAM so who copy who.?
6-Hahahahaaaaaaaa.... What a joke you are,how come MS has worse tools than sony now.?Isn't that the excuse use by lemming that MS was behind tools wise,but how can they be behind when sony can't have better tools than MS.?
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.............
7-AMD doesn't care about DX,it just care to let PC gamers knows their GPU support them,in fact it was AMD who claim 4 generation hardware leap,when even MS say double performance..lol Was AMD giving the appearance that AMD will benefit more than Nvidia.? haha...
8-The standard has always been DX,it just doesn't matter when teh PS4 can do the same by API and still has stronger hardware..lol
9-Sony isn't competing with AMD or Nvidia you fool,is competing with MS which is behind hardware wise,tools wise and sales wise,good luck convincing developers to make games on your platform as lead platform,when you don't have the sales to back you up this time,and have hardware that is weaker and with a troublesome memory architecture.
10-Expect to se Tile resources on PS4 since it is confirmed that the PS4 support DX11.2 features as well as Opengl4.4..lol Butbutbut the secret sauce...lol
OWNAGE CONFIRMED!!! Looking forward to watching the COWS spin this and all start saying DX12 will be great now and look Sony wants to do it also.
LMFAO!!!
Once again and for the 100 time anything the xbox one can do by API the PS4 can do it as well,if the xbox one increase 500% so will the PS4 one,is the same hardware period from the same family and the CPU is the same..lol
Did sony made a parade about Tile resources.? No and yet the PS4 support it..lol
Whatever they do it won't be as good as dx12 and whatever dx12 does for the xbone it won't make it as strong as the ps4. That is the reality of the situation.
OWNAGE CONFIRMED!!! Looking forward to watching the COWS spin this and all start saying DX12 will be great now and look Sony wants to do it also.
LMFAO!!!
Once again and for the 100 time anything the xbox one can do by API the PS4 can do it as well,if the xbox one increase 500% so will the PS4 one,is the same hardware period from the same family and the CPU is the same..lol
Did sony made a parade about Tile resources.? No and yet the PS4 support it..lol
Open GL has a form of it but as of now Mantle and the Tiled resources equivalent is stalled and not moving forward for PS4. Tiled Recourses for X1 is in full production and development and also look LMFAO!!! Sony wants to try and copy DX12 now because they know DX12 is going to end up being a massive performance boost for X1.
Again watch the Cows come out in droves now spinning this into no bu bu bu we always thought DX12 would be great LMFAO!!!
Just one little caveat to your victory dance.. PS4 doesn't really need it. There's no tiny pocket of 30MBs of RAM to turn into something somehow and by any means necessary.
Eh, this just reiterates the point that had to be hammered home a month ago to fanboys thinking DX12 would alter the power dynamic between the two consoles. Any efficiencies derived from new methods will rapidly spread. That's good news for developers and gamers.
Eh, this just reiterates the point that had to be hammered home a month ago to fanboys thinking DX12 would alter the power dynamic between the two consoles. Any efficiencies derived from new methods will rapidly spread. That's good news for developers and gamers.
+1 internets.
It seems there is intelligent life in System Wars after all.
Dx12 won't close the difference in power between X1 and PS4. There's still a 600 gigaflops gulf between X1 and PS4 and no low level API can really change that.
My man this is a bad thread....really bad. If anything it makes Sony look scared as well as some of their fanbase as you have just proved by making this thread.
So just so that I understand you MS is owned because Sony put out a job ad to find someone to work on an alternative to DX12?
My man this is a bad thread....really bad. If anything it makes Sony look scared as well as some of their fanbase as you have just proved by making this thread.
So just so that I understand you MS is owned because Sony put out a job ad to find someone to work on an alternative to DX12?
It's hard to be scared of a stillborn console that can't push 400k sales in its biggest territory with its biggest game release of the year. The only thing scary about XBone is how bad it smells rotting on store shelves.
Open GL has a form of it but as of now Mantle and the Tiled resources equivalent is stalled and not moving forward for PS4. Tiled Recourses for X1 is in full production and development and also look LMFAO!!! Sony wants to try and copy DX12 now because they know DX12 is going to end up being a massive performance boost for X1.
Again watch the Cows come out in droves now spinning this into no bu bu bu we always thought DX12 would be great LMFAO!!!
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
The PS4 from what i read has a 30 CU GPU,and will get an update to support tile resources tire 3 next year,and its CPU is getting over close to 2.5 ghz..
Just wait until next year..
@NFJSupreme said:
Whatever they do it won't be as good as dx12 and whatever dx12 does for the xbone it won't make it as strong as the ps4. That is the reality of the situation.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
Another one falling for MS sh** PR,didn't you get enough with the secret sauce failure and all that crap?
The PS4 tool wise is ahead of xbox one,DX12 is a direct response to Mantle,and once again will work on several brands of GPU and models,so again is not the same as targeting 1 single hardware.
@tormentos: when it comes to software I'll side with MS until Sony proves they are actually good at it. Your blind faith in everything Sony is cute though.
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