Discussing the power differences of the PS5 vs Xbox Series X, and which console will you get?

If you go back and watch the 2015 reveal it actually says "play it first on PS4". The announcer says it too. SE really wants people to know it's not a full exclusive, they even put it on the packaging.

@sealionact: ever hear of dimensioning returns? Games will look the same on both systems. What world are you living in where 12.1tf is a huge difference from 10.3? It's a 16 percent difference that could only go to an extra frame and that doesn't even include the advanced instruction capabilities of PS5 nor the SSD speed. You guys are so caught up on numbers and don't even realize what Sony changed for console efficiency today.

So, according to your argument the extra performance (1.7TFLOPS) is only worth one frame despite the fact that its equivalent to the performance of the PS4 and Xbox One Gpus?

Do you also know that the SSD has no relevance to rendering?

What are these advance instructions you speak of on the PS5?

If all you care about is power, buy a PC. 😇

You missed the "backed with 15 studios bringing its games to gamepass day one give a shit about sales?"😇

True... and power has never been the deciding factor in these marathons, especially with a difference of only 20-25% and the "weaker" one having far better exclusives. It'll mean even more if it ends up being cheaper, especially since it still has better audio and a much faster SSD, and doesn't require a proprietary memory card (AKA one of the things that killed Vita).

Neither on launch probably 2021 i getting both probably

Sony fannies having the weaker Console Next Gen. LOL

PS5 will be fine with lots of games that it's fans will love. I only bought a PS4 for Street Fighter V so I'm planning to go back to Xbox to start this gen, its been too long Halo.

I'm sure Sony will have other gimmicks like the next gen rumble, 3D audio, and a controller shaped like a banana.

@MonsieurX: I don't buy a console just for it's power or else I would have purchased a PS4 first last gen. I purchase one because its much better than the other.

@fileman3: You noticed wrong. Only ms themselves are doing that, not 3rd party devs.

We're talking about 4-5 games here.

"great narrative" LMFAO.

never mind did more research last night. just a faster ssd card.

It means that the clocks given by your godtier nerd Mark Cerny are confident numbers, and probably not the numbers the PS5 will achieve when both cpu and gpu are pushed to the limit at the same time (Unlike Xbox Series X). It is obvious that here Sony tried to save face: "TFLOPS don't matter, we got special I/O hardware and audio hardware that are revolutionary". This is the beauty of revealing first with the competitor later responding, there is always some damage control.

But let's talk first about that GPU. Cerny is trying to close the power gap by claiming the max boost clocks of the PS5 as typical while contradicting himself minutes later stating when the cpu also needs to be 3.5ghz the GPU clocks adjust accordingly. Essentially developers will be forced to fine tune their engines in each specific game situation so that the CPU and GPU have a fine equilibrium to reach those peak clocks as efficiently as possible. Which multiplatform developers certainly won't do quickly. AT MOST PS5 can reach 85% of the power of XSX, according to Cerny this is typical which contradicts his own statements as the clock rates he gave are max boost clock rates. Yes 2.23GHz clock is insanely high and opens up some other things on the GPU but it remains to be seen how long the PS5 can output such a high clock without being downclocked. In actuality I think it will mostly run closer to 2ghz. Why? Because everything extra above that range exponentially increases power draw. This works exactly the same as on a computer, the higher you overclock the exponentially more watts you need. 2ghz results in a 9.216Tflops. Then the difference will start to show a bit more, and that is not taking into account that Microsoft can patch clock speeds after release (as they did with Xbox One, they upped it with 9% for CPU and more bandwith on GPU) if they have the headroom to do so. Even if they don't have power headroom left considering the Series X is probably already pushing the 300W cap limit, Microsoft can still enable developers the tools to underclock the CPU and boost up the 1.825ghz clock speed to 2ghz on the GPU, which would result in 13,312TFLOPS. How can Microsoft do that? Because the PS5 and XsX share the same platform even if they are both custom GPU's. The XsX also has a big ass Vapor Chamber on top of it's silicon which looks like it can comfortably run higher clocks on it's GPU with not much extra heat. Then all of sudden the XsX is 144% of the PS5 (13,312 vs 9,216) and we'd be right back at PS4 Pro and X1X differences. This is of course my speculation, but I don't think it's that far fetched at all. Microsoft confidently said their clocks are stable already. They probably knew the PS5 had low CU's with a much higher clock.

As I said before Cerny mentioning TFLOPS as just being one equation of the GPU is clearly a saving face technique. The XsX has the same architecture thus the same increase per CU over the PS4. Cerny instead heavily skipped the gpu and cpu section and instead focused on audio and SSD I/O performance by showing off metadata accumulated for spatial Audio simulations and dedicated chips to increase I/O performance on the SSD side.

So about their audio innovation, I think it's a gimmick at best. I have seen audio presentations regarding spatial simulation many times over and most of them try to simulate a binaural audio space. It is cool and all that Sony can map your ears but the mastering process of each game's sound elements and even the frequency response or complexity of your speaker/headphone drivers will make a much bigger difference than such a simulation by itself. Essentially all the sound elements need to come together just right for such an effect to be more drastic than what has come before it. Dolby has done this simulation for years already for example. Many headphones have 3d simulations built in as well. Granted not by mapping your individual ears. Cerny claims that will change everything drastically. But limited audio gear can never improve sonically if the hardware simply isn't there. The presentation sounds complex but in practice I'd like to see the results before even being sold by it's effect. The fact that Sony has dedicated hardware for audio might have been a big gamble but it's a wait and see.

And concerning the I/O of the PS5. It's a true monster. It's substantially faster than the XsX or anything offered for PC, but at what cost? At what point does SSD speed still matter with current surrounding hardware attached to it? If the streaming of game worlds was always decided by a slow 5200rpm harddrive then surely an ssd can improve that tenfold. According to Sony that is a hundred fold and maybe even more due to the dedicated decompression hardware it has. Sony calls that the Tempest Engine. Which sounds a bit similar to the Velocity Engine of Xbox but faster. According to MS they can have internal I/O communication between SSD and RAM/CPU of 6GB/s. And correct me if I am wrong but for the Tempest engine that was 9GB/s. That is not an incredible difference if 6GB/s already allows a much faster streamrate of data between SSD and RAM/CPU. It was cute that Cerny showed the blueprint of Jak 2 map and how gaming still renders in such confined areas. But a 5200rpm harddrive already streams rich open worlds, and even at Forza Horizon 4 speeds with all it's fidelity. Such a 3GB/S difference might not be noticed in games at all, but I could be wrong on that and again it's a wait and see.

With the dedicated hardware for an even faster I/O and dedicated hardware for audio Sony is focusing elsewhere than Microsoft, whom are more focusing on pure visual fidelity and input lag reduction. The last one is especially interesting to me. Digitalfoundry showed that the input lag of the XsX was reduced to almost the actual input lag of a given tv has itself. For competitive gameplay that is truly significant. A difference of 100ms input lag is revolutionary for a 4k console. It is something that directly affects the way you play the game. Also, XsX has built in AI which analyses heat maps of older games, applying a realistic HDR10 filter at no extra processing expense. Again another free upgrade that doesn't require much of it's hardware. Which is exactly why I feel the XsX is a more confident console, where the PS5 approach to power sounds eerily similar to that of the PS3. The Cell had to change gaming forever, but at the end of the day it was too hard to program for for it to be beneficial. Here Sony again takes a gamble and put most of it's resources on Audio and an incredible SSD, but at what cost??? Just my 2 cents...

This gen the PS4 was the most powerful at launch, but that's not why it sold more. It sold more because it was cheaper and was about the games, while X1 was about TV features. None of the companies this gen went for power, the PS4 could easily have been more powerful at launch, it wasn't exactly groundbreaking hardware. But it was the first PlayStation that didn't sell at a loss. Now it's pretty much the same, Sony is pushing hardware that will give devs new possibilities besides just more pixels, without a too high pricetag. This time MS has chosen the same, but the XsX need to be more powerful to have a chance at selling enough consoles. But the price could be too high.

Good point. But don't forget Microsoft could come around with a much cheaper Lockhart SKU. Also, Series X could sell under it's production value not just because MS could afford such a loss but also because Game Pass subscriptions is what will eventually give it a run for their money.

Went from 360 to PS4 and some how got addicted to Sony 1st party games. So I’ll be definitely getting a ps5

I feel like the PS5 will be less expensive, so there's a bonus right there.

But didn't Spencer say that they are still going to make games for the original Xbox One for a few years?

I don't think power is going to matter if devs have to make games for the lowest performing consoles still

The one difference that it will make, is that every publisher will now send xbox copies of their games to reviewers. So reviewers are more likely to talk about xbox now.

I found it fascinating but I wasn't aware there was a reveal happening. So it was more like a surprise tech details show for me.

@jahnee: The PS5 GPU clockspeed is rather interesting. Its running at ~420 Mhz over the standard 5700XT. Based on at least one overclocking article on the 5700XT that is going to increase the power draw. Cerny was very specific in stating that the frequency adjusts based on power draw. In this article increasing the speed from 1800Mhz to 2100Mhz increased the power from 186 to 258 watts and that was achieved by water cooling. Rumor has it that Sony is spending a good amount on their cooling system. It would be interesting to see how both the Series X and PS5 handles power and temperature.

Software can scale to hardware.

I doubt Sony would have such superior cooling or that RDNA 2 allows those clocks constantly. I stand by my original hypothesis that the PS5 is likely just above 9TFLOPS. But yes, it's interesting to see what each console will have.

I don't really give a shit who's more powerful, I want some good games that take advantage of the console's strengths. So whoever's library is the strongest (to my tastes) then that's where I'm at. (And even that does not guarantee a PS5 purchase) Last gen, the PS4 dominated and before that the 360.

@Random_Matt: Maybe it's the best they can do. Not everyone is a video game connoisseur.

Wouldn't the game need to still be designed around slow disk access? It seems like Series X/PS5 only titles will be designed around having that capability.

So they're going to have one giant heatsink with no fans since fans don't cool right? ;)

@jahnee: they could, the rumour was a 4TF version that has better performance than the X1X. But having two hardware types at launch is not a smart option in my opinion. And Sony can also easily release a Pro version later in the gen for people who cares about pixels, even though that has shown to not really push hardware sales that much, because those people usually go for a gaming PC anyways. I'm excited for next gen, I think the move over to SSD, custom processors for compression, and a good desktop CPU will make it feel like a proper next gen with games that just wasn't possible on previous hardware.

Most likely, yes.

For example, there are games on N64 that would have to be structurally redesigned if they were ported to PS1, because the N64 was several orders of magnitude faster at loading stuff. I imagine the same thing would happen between PS4 and PS5.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how you design your game to access data. If you have a Wait Until mechanism as part of your game's loading of data then the speed of storage would be irrelevant.

I hope that neither companies release a weaker system. They can released a stripped down system with identical performance but a weaker system would be unprecedented and dumb.

You guys are too dense to realize Sony just changed the game on efficiency and only looking at Tflops. Pay attention to what Cerny is saying. They didn't revolve this thing around the SSD for nothing.

@Sagemode87: How is it that much different than the Velocity Arcitecture? Both load power away from CPU and both are really fast.

Dude, PS5 could of been 20TF and they would still choose their brand of choice, gamespot forum in a nutshell. Come up with absolutely anything to support their justification.

@Random_Matt: cognitive dissonance

Looks like people by and large people want a PS5. Not surprising.

i want the xbox series x cause i like it's franchises (forza, gears)

no ps5 unless they bring back warhawk and resistance

Does anyone think that Sony and MS will release "Pro" versions 2-3 years in the console cycle?

I don't really think the PS4 Pro and One X exactly flew off shelves.

How clever.

Tech moves fast, probably.

PS5 easily, it's actually going to be able to pull off things in games that XSX won't be able to copy.

Sony's reveal seemed bad to laymen, but it's actually (like I expected) the more intelligently designed system. PS5 was built to completely utilize all of it's components together to the max capacity at the very core of it's desigen

MS XSX is straight forward and burte force which isn't bad. It'll have excellent performance and will crush most PC fanboy setups today who spent $2000+, but The PS5 should be able to achieve the same level of real world performance within 5 to 10fps.

As expected the TF number rating will only serve as a fanboy bragging point but won't amount to any type of tangible benefit in real world gaming. Any one expecting XSX to do anything that PS5 can't also achieve is going to be sadly disappointed.

3rd party games are going to look and run virtually the same 98% of the time with next gen games and as long as 3rd party support cross gen, it's going to be a 1 to 1 exact experience. Who doesn't think either PS5 or XSX couldn't run current gen games 4k 60fps? That next jump is 120fps which would only be for racing games or indie level titles which both would also be able to equally achieve.

@boxrekt: Must burn on the inside knowing that the PS5 is weaker after all that shit about it being faster than the Series X.

Two main reasons.

1. MS still rely on 3rd party devs to deliver the type of AAA experiences that validate the purchase of their console...but 3rd party design all their AAA games based around the console market leader's hardware!!!

So there will be ZERO features in those games that the console market leaders system (not xbox anything) can't do. All you would get is a few extra frames it it's unlocked, but if a game is designed to run at 60fps 4k on PS5 a dev is just going to lock both at 60fps.

AND....

2. XSX is indeed slightly more powerful than PS5. by around 1.8TF. So that means XSX games are going to be way better right? lol (what simple minds here conclude) no!

Why not?

Because for XSX to show any type of significant advantage over PS5's capability, a dev would have to specifically target XSX specs as the base of their development for that game. (I.E. developed like an exclusive for XSX) lol how many devs do you xbox fans think will do that??? Spoiler alert, ZERO!

................................................................

Fact is even if PS5 (as the market leader) was 13TF and XSX was 10TF 98% of 3rd party devs would code to the limits XSX capability! Fanboys are beyond stupid to think a slight difference in power is going to result in internal differences in "development" of games...because the base development is where all features are implemented...next gen that's going to be PS5 spec.

Unless a game is XSX exclusive you will not *see* any advantage to MS's slight power lead over PS5. Now you guys are back to square one...MS said their "exclusives" lineup will be cross gen (base xbox one spec) games for the next 2 years.

That means PS5 games are still going to curb stomp ANY games in the industry in terms of graphics and NEXT GEN fidelity.

Reality will hit the fanboys on this board when Sony shows what PS5 exclusives look like compared to XSX upresed Xbox one games and and lems are left trying to hype a non-gameplay Hellblade 2 and Project Mara tech demos that even MS said wouldn't see the light of day for at least 2 years.

@boxrekt: Theres a huge flaw in your theory...in fact theres two. The first is that games look better on more powerful hardware. We know that 3rd party games looked and performed better on ps4 than x1. Better on x1x than pro, and vastly better than ps4. I bought bf4 on x1, and was so pissed with playing at 720p, I bought it again for my ps4.

Devs will push the capabilities of ps5, and then improve performance for xsx...better textures, draw rate and possibly better resolution if 60fps is required....just as they did for this gen.

Second problem is potentially a more serious one. Sony have reintroduced unique dedicated hardware with their fast ssd and 3d audio, much like with the ps3. Cerny was rightly telling us how wonderful this will be for games. No more passages or tunnels as the next block of the game is loaded. Problem is, xsx wont have that feature, so devs may not use it to avoid having to rewrite games with and without transitional areas.

Either way, ps5 doesnt fill me with confidence. "We dont know if any ssd will fit, wait before buying..we're trying out which ps4 games are bc and so far most of the top 100 are...we have this great 3d audio, but dont know how to implement it, maybe send us a picture of your ears....people who have heard our 3d audio say it's a little better than stereo...."

Ms have shown the insides and outside of xsx. They've shown it in action. They've stated 4 gens of bc will work, with games getting enhancements on xsx. They've stated that enhanced versions of x1 games will release at no extra cost if you own the game already.

It's just a clearer message.

@sealionact: Why do you think XsX Velocity Engine is that much behind of the PS5?

@Pedro said:

@boxrekt: Must burn on the inside knowing that the PS5 is weaker after all that shit about it being faster than the Series X.

Do you still believe in your "scaling" for next gen nonsense 😂

I told you a long time ago how this would work and now it's time for your reality check and your upcoming damage control and mental gymnastics to kick in...

HERE

https://youtu.be/oNZibJazWTo?t=261

Is what your precious, "scaling" will do for games on your more powerful XSX...

A framerate boost, some textures and a few lighting effects that amounts to a big meh in terms of visual difference between what we already see on Xbox One X.

Bu but the more powers and da "scaling" LMFAO!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DZ1woLigiEU/maxresdefault.jpg

This is the difference between a 1.3TF system and 14TF system with the "scaling" you're so proud of. 🤗Revolutionary!!!

But you expect current gen upscaled games to compete with what Sony will be doing exclusively for PS5? This is an L in waiting.

Without exclusives, XSX "POWAH ADVANTAGE" is going to amount to...hot air and fanboy bragging rights.

No TANGIBLE real world visual differences will be seen in games and it's going to leave customers with the SAME choice they currently have between PS4 and Xbox one systems...What about the exclusive games!!!

And we already know🤭MS is giving you upscalled Xbox one games for the next 2 years!

Who are you trying to convince here? Even YOU lemmings say 3rd party devs are going to support current gen systems for 2 to 3 years from now so what do you think that means for your more powerful XSX arguments?

You going to try to compare State of Decay 3 developed around Xbox One spec upscalled on XSX to a Horizon Zero Dawn 2 exclusive on PS5? *wakaflaka face* Yeah okay!

As seen in Gears 5 a FIRST PARTY title, cross-gen games are only going to have a candy coating over current gen games. They are not real next gen games and PS5 will be able to do the exact same XSX is doing on any cross gen title. Only place this Tflop advantage will have any relevance is in xbox fanboy arguments while the rest the world flocks to PS5 for NEXT GEN games that are unmatched by any other platform on the market.

@boxrekt: One, I am not going to read you compilation of nonsense. Two, you are still ignorant on the topic and there is not much anyone can do to help you. I am sorry the PS5 is slower. ;)

BOTH ! the only question is which one will I get first and it all depends on the games.