DirectX 12 works on both X1 and PC, Forza 5 showcased on PC

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#51 Edited by treedoor (7478 posts) -

Microsoft finally turning the Xbox into what it should have always been from the beginning (an entry-level PC)

#52 Posted by SteXmaN (365 posts) -

Now what I am thinking is if DirectX12 is being ported to xbox one which have a last gen DirectX11 GPU, then it surely can be ported to latest DirectX11 GPUs on PC as well. Probably DirectX12 is some sort of an optimized version of the 11.

Yeah,it is strange really.We need more info :/

#53 Posted by jhonMalcovich (4414 posts) -

@treedoor said:

Microsoft finally turning the Xbox into what it should have always been from the beginning (an entry-level PC)

Amen brother XD Also it's good as a blu-ray player.

#54 Edited by Acez626 (690 posts) -

@jhonMalcovich said:

@HadOne2Many said:

@jhonMalcovich: Acez626's reply was just as childish as your original post, but I think what he was getting at is that people like you are making this site worse. Do you truly believe the things you are posting about the XB1, or are you just trolling like 85% of the other posters here?

Ok. And rooting for Xbox One like if it were a cancer cure is not childish ?

What??

Lol how am I "rooting" for Xbox one? I am simply supporting it...the same way I support sony, or any company that brings entertainment to my life

Which is different to what your doing, since your not supporting ps4, but bashing xbox one

Huge difference, wtf are you trying to imply?

@glez13 Im a hermit?? what? LOL currently the only pc I have is a $100 pc I use for downloading music/movies

#55 Posted by jhonMalcovich (4414 posts) -

@Acez626 said:

@jhonMalcovich said:

@HadOne2Many said:

@jhonMalcovich: Acez626's reply was just as childish as your original post, but I think what he was getting at is that people like you are making this site worse. Do you truly believe the things you are posting about the XB1, or are you just trolling like 85% of the other posters here?

Ok. And rooting for Xbox One like if it were a cancer cure is not childish ?

What??

Lol how am I "rooting" for Xbox one? I am simply supporting it...the same way I support sony, or any company that brings entertainment to my life

Which is different to what your doing, since your not supporting ps4, but bashing xbox one

Huge difference, wtf are you trying to imply?

That I don't care about both PS4 and xbox one ? Maybe this.

#56 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4133 posts) -

we don't need forza 5 on pc. there's loads of good driving games on PC. and I'm with @uninspiredcup, the high price and microtransactions is just silly.

if you want to play a car game where you're buying and selling bits and bobs, get a 360 or ps3, and get the older forza or gt games - in my humble opinion.

#57 Edited by jhonMalcovich (4414 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur said:

we don't need forza 5 on pc. there's loads of good driving games on PC. and I'm with @uninspiredcup, the high price and microtransactions is just silly.

if you want to play a car game where you're buying and selling bits and bobs, get a 360 or ps3, and get the older forza or gt games - in my humble opinion.

Yep. Project CARS FTW.

#58 Edited by Acez626 (690 posts) -

@Acez626 said:

@jhonMalcovich said:

@HadOne2Many said:

@jhonMalcovich: Acez626's reply was just as childish as your original post, but I think what he was getting at is that people like you are making this site worse. Do you truly believe the things you are posting about the XB1, or are you just trolling like 85% of the other posters here?

Ok. And rooting for Xbox One like if it were a cancer cure is not childish ?

What??

Lol how am I "rooting" for Xbox one? I am simply supporting it...the same way I support sony, or any company that brings entertainment to my life

Which is different to what your doing, since your not supporting ps4, but bashing xbox one

Huge difference, wtf are you trying to imply?

That I don't care about both PS4 and xbox one ? Maybe this.

Lol ok bro

whatever you say my man

#59 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16254 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

I doubt it will, but would be hilarious if Forza 5 came to PC... with DX12.

There is no way. All MS does for PC nowadays is port over windows phone games.

This is just a showcase, they will never bring a great Xbox exclusive like Forza over to PC. Never.

#60 Edited by magicalclick (22387 posts) -

Awesome, DX12 on Xbox One instead of waiting one more Gen. Can't wait to see those DX12 specific benefits working on Xbox One.

#61 Posted by tormentos (16793 posts) -

New api works better than an old one more news at 10 stay tuned.

#62 Posted by MBirdy88 (7438 posts) -

New api works better than an old one more news at 10 stay tuned.

If this was Sony with some sort of unique offering with OpenGL you would be foaming at the gash.

#63 Posted by Daious (1052 posts) -

I would love to see Forza 5 on PC.

#64 Posted by Daious (1052 posts) -

I would love to see Forza 5 on PC.

@shawn30 said:

@PinkieWinkie said:

Before the lemmings invade this thread,, DX 12 will not make up for the XBones inferior hardware.

I will bring great improvements and that's all that matters. Jeez, way to be a fanboy, lol. You can sleep easy your precious PS4 is still more powerful. Mean while I'm greatly looking for to the DX12 Xbox One games and what they will bring to the table. That was a short, to the point conference. Sadly we're gonna be waiting a while before we see them. Still, great MS is thinking ahead lomg-term. :)

Its really hard to say whether it will bring any major improvement. The main benefit is that it will be a lot more easier to port from PC to Xboxone.

Xboxone already has a low-level API

#65 Posted by glez13 (8582 posts) -

@Acez626: I was talking about jhonMalcovich.

#66 Posted by IgGy621985 (4604 posts) -

we don't need forza 5 on pc. there's loads of good driving games on PC. and I'm with @uninspiredcup, the high price and microtransactions is just silly.

if you want to play a car game where you're buying and selling bits and bobs, get a 360 or ps3, and get the older forza or gt games - in my humble opinion.

Yeah, but I'd be more excited for Forza 5 for PC as a concrete sign of Microsoft actually supporting PC as a gaming platform this time.

#67 Posted by glez13 (8582 posts) -

games wont show up with this till holiday 2015

Even more disappointed with this unveil when I noticed this.

#68 Edited by CrownKingArthur (4133 posts) -

@IgGy621985: i think i know would you mean. forza 5 on pc would be 'good will' towards future pc support.

if i'm honest, i'd even be pretty happy with Forza 2/3/4 on PC instead of five. it would still be the first forza game we've had on pc.

but what do you reckon mate? will ms put effort into pc gaming?

i'm dubious, because i suspect ms would consider Window gaming and Xbox gaming to compete, and I'm unsure how they'd approach that strategically. historically, i suspect they've focussed on xbox while neglecting pc gaming, and as long as the xbox brand exists i suspect they'll continue along those lines.

hope i don't sound too pessimistic.

#69 Posted by glez13 (8582 posts) -

Does it mean that we will have to buy new Dx12 GPUs (in order to play, let's say, Forza), as I understand current GPUs don't support it ? If the former is true, then no thanks. I bought GTX780 just 8 month ago.

Apparently not, but who knows:

http://games.on.net/2014/03/directx12-announced-at-gdc-but-no-release-until-end-of-2015/

But, Gosalia hinted at broad availability – Microsoft expects 80% of all gamer PCs selling today to be DX12 capable. When the software eventually ships in late 2015, the company expects 50% of all PC gamers will be supported.

#70 Posted by jhonMalcovich (4414 posts) -

@glez13 said:

@Acez626: I was talking about jhonMalcovich.

Friendly fire. Lol.

#71 Edited by IgGy621985 (4604 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur: No, you actually sound very realistic haha. Xbox will always be a flagship gaming platform to Microsoft. I think they announced DX12 to have something to compete against Sony since One's performance isn't really encouraging given that the console can't offer 1080p games. Windows will always be only their backup option, considering Valve basically started to monopolize PC gaming market.

#72 Posted by True_Gamer_ (5985 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur: No, you actually sound very realistic haha. Xbox will always be a flagship gaming platform to Microsoft. I think they announced DX12 to have something to compete against Sony since One's performance isn't really encouraging given that the console can't offer 1080p games. Windows will always be only their backup option, considering Valve basically started to monopolize PC gaming market.

Valve monopolizes the PC gaming market the same way MS did on the PC OS market....However what was Intel to MS is MS to Valve....Its a parasitic symbiotic system. Valve is only now trying to cut off from MS and if this happens expect Forza/Gears/Halo ALL ported to Windows X and exclusive to pull people back from linux steamboxes.

#73 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16254 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur: No, you actually sound very realistic haha. Xbox will always be a flagship gaming platform to Microsoft. I think they announced DX12 to have something to compete against Sony since One's performance isn't really encouraging given that the console can't offer 1080p games. Windows will always be only their backup option, considering Valve basically started to monopolize PC gaming market.

MS really bet on the wrong horse.

Their Xbox devision hasn't been profitable in total over all these years, while the PC devision, the one they killed, was profitable. How can they ever go back when they have pretty much killed all their PC developers or had them focus on Xbox instead?

#74 Posted by flashn00b (2883 posts) -

Forza 5 on PC sounds like a fallback plan in the event that the Xbox One turns out to be a money sink

#75 Posted by silversix_ (13919 posts) -

SO it doesn't look abysmal like the X1 version?

#76 Edited by Couth_ (9977 posts) -

I would looooooooove Forza on PC.

#77 Posted by mariokart64fan (19348 posts) -

DX12 WONT MAKE XBOXONE ANY MORE BETTER THEN IT ALREADY IS ie it wont add any more ram then it already has nore will it matter at the end of the day if there are no good games to play lol

#78 Posted by kipsta77 (917 posts) -

Does it mean that we will have to buy new Dx12 GPUs (in order to play, let's say, Forza), as I understand current GPUs don't support it ? If the former is true, then no thanks. I bought GTX780 just 8 month ago.

No. It's been confirmed people with a GTX 400 series or over will be able to use it day 1. The only thing I'm concerned about is if MS will force us to use their "Windows 9" to be able to use it.

#79 Edited by uninspiredcup (7661 posts) -

It's interesting Microsoft show off Xbox games. Most likely because they don't have any pc games to show off.

#80 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (2685 posts) -

@kipsta77 said:

@jhonMalcovich said:

Does it mean that we will have to buy new Dx12 GPUs (in order to play, let's say, Forza), as I understand current GPUs don't support it ? If the former is true, then no thanks. I bought GTX780 just 8 month ago.

No. It's been confirmed people with a GTX 400 series or over will be able to use it day 1. The only thing I'm concerned about is if MS will force us to use their "Windows 9" to be able to use it.

Yeah that is almost a lock based on past DX releases. M$ forces gamers to buy windoze latest version using DX as a hook. I say thank GOD for Opengl and Mantle. I also hope andriod or the steam becomes the next standard. So I can be free of the windoze curse.

As for the xflop 1 I really doubt it will have any impact at all. By the time it comes out Mantle should be the standard.

#81 Posted by MrXboxOne (742 posts) -

@PinkieWinkie: doesn't need to. X1 has the only game that is 100%locked at 1080p/60fps. The best next gen graphics with Ryse and the only console capable of having thousands of objects on screen at one with DR3.

#82 Edited by GrenadeLauncher (3740 posts) -

I'm still laughing that lems hyped this up. Wasdie was right.

Holiday 2015, write it in your diaries. In the meantime better hope you get games to keep the waiting less interminable.

#83 Posted by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -
#84 Edited by melonfarmerz (1103 posts) -

As a PC gamer, we're super spoiled and entitiled. If Microsoft attempts to add the microtransaction system they did for Forza on Xbox, the game will die miserably. I guarantee it. Especially since Forza's a pretty lackluster sim compared to other PC titles.

#85 Posted by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -
#86 Posted by xsrr11 (17 posts) -

Here you have direct proof. Here you have a " low level api ", just reduce the load on the CPU. At this zoo can not low level. Game made ​​on raw devkits and drivers for the weak xbone, runs only Nvidia GTX Titan Black.
In addition to true low level, the consoles still have optimization of iron needed for a gaming device engineering solutions , shared memory (no extra copy from memory to memory ) , api for audio processing on a dedicated audio device , ultra-high speed transmission of rendering commands from the CPU to the GPU.
Anch , warrant game from Quantic , Division , driveclab etc. show a true next-gen , although infamos , killzone
and other current so look almost perfect.

#87 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16254 posts) -

SO it doesn't look abysmal like the X1 version?

"Next gen" and still using carboard cutouts for people on the sideline.

I'm not saying they should put all their detail in those, but they look worse than Mortal Kombat 1 characters.

#88 Posted by IgGy621985 (4604 posts) -

PC gamers shouldn't be too excited about DX12 because I'm pretty sure Xbox One will get DX12 titles first, and probably long before PC gets any DX12 games.

Microsoft desperately needs an upper hand against Sony at tech department, ergo, I see PC being shafted once again by MS.

#89 Edited by IgGy621985 (4604 posts) -

Also, video of Forza 5 running on PC...

#90 Posted by FastRobby (1040 posts) -

DX12 WONT MAKE XBOXONE ANY MORE BETTER THEN IT ALREADY IS ie it wont add any more ram then it already has nore will it matter at the end of the day if there are no good games to play lol

Yes it will... You have to look at it like this. Let's say you have two cars, a car with 200hp and one with 180hp. We all know which one is the PS4 :D Well if the engine of the first car has an efficiency of 80%, and the second car 90%, they are still almost equally as good. Microsoft has always been better at getting the best out of their machines, and efficiency, they are foremost still a software company.

#91 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (6064 posts) -

I thought Forza was used to demonstrate the decreased time to get a game from THE ONE to PC and visa versa.

Anyway there is tons of good news for Xbox owners.

Improved graphics and performance are at the tip.

A DX12 update for Forza 5 on THE ONE?????? Just might be coming.

#92 Posted by Salt_The_Fries (8288 posts) -

Eurogamer:

Forza demo "was simply a rendering tech demo

to showcase the power and ease of development

for DX12. We have no plans to release Forza

Motorsport 5, or any other Microsoft Studios

Xbox One title on PC." When asked about

specific enhancements for Xbox One, Microsoft

confirmed that DX12 was on the roadmap for the

console, but "beyond that, we have nothing more

to share."

#93 Edited by kipsta77 (917 posts) -

@kipsta77 said:

@jhonMalcovich said:

Does it mean that we will have to buy new Dx12 GPUs (in order to play, let's say, Forza), as I understand current GPUs don't support it ? If the former is true, then no thanks. I bought GTX780 just 8 month ago.

No. It's been confirmed people with a GTX 400 series or over will be able to use it day 1. The only thing I'm concerned about is if MS will force us to use their "Windows 9" to be able to use it.

Yeah that is almost a lock based on past DX releases. M$ forces gamers to buy windoze latest version using DX as a hook. I say thank GOD for Opengl and Mantle. I also hope andriod or the steam becomes the next standard. So I can be free of the windoze curse.

As for the xflop 1 I really doubt it will have any impact at all. By the time it comes out Mantle should be the standard.

Mantle will only become the standard in your dreams. Won't happen.

#94 Posted by IgGy621985 (4604 posts) -

or any other Microsoft Studios Xbox One title on PC

Ha...ha. Classic Microsoft.

#95 Posted by HadOne2Many (1195 posts) -

Well that settles that. It was fun to think about Forza on a PC but I'm not surprised at all that it isn't coming. Hopefully the next Horizon game is one that uses DirectX 12 though.

#96 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (3740 posts) -

Funny amid all the hype all the Xbone will likely get out of it is faster porting in 2016.

Forza 5 on PC would be sharp though. Another MS blunder.

#97 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@xsrr11 said:

Here you have direct proof. Here you have a " low level api ", just reduce the load on the CPU. At this zoo can not low level. Game made ​​on raw devkits and drivers for the weak xbone, runs only Nvidia GTX Titan Black.

In addition to true low level, the consoles still have optimization of iron needed for a gaming device engineering solutions , shared memory (no extra copy from memory to memory ) , api for audio processing on a dedicated audio device , ultra-high speed transmission of rendering commands from the CPU to the GPU.

Anch , warrant game from Quantic , Division , driveclab etc. show a true next-gen , although infamos , killzone and other current so look almost perfect.

AMD R9-290X also has a True Audio device i.e. dedicated audio device.

---------------------

X1 has memory copies between 32MB ESRAM and main memory i.e. it's not PS4's unified memory setup. X1 has extra hardware for memory copies.

NVIDIA Kelper's memory pages and cache line size are not aligned to X86-64 version hence DirectX 12 will have to provide some abstraction for this difference. This is what CUDA 6 does for NVIDIA Kelper hardware. On AMD GCN, the pointers are X86-64 based and are aligned to X86-64's memory pages and cache line size.

NVIDIA Kelper's virtual memory page is 64 KB, while X86's virtual memory page size is 4KB. http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/gpudirect-rdma/index.html

AMD GCN's virtual memory page is 4 KB, which is the same size as x86-64 processors. http://www.slideshare.net/DevCentralAMD/gs4106-the-amd-gcn-architecture-a-crash-course-by-layla-mah Slide 50

Current DirectX 11.2 already manages it's memory related operations and DirectX 12 exposes these functions to the programmer.

---------------------

Example of ISA level optimisation from http://timothylottes.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/notes-on-amd-gcn-isa.html

"DX and GL are years behind in API design compared to what is possible on GCN. For instance there is no need for the CPU to do any binding for a traditional material system with unique shaders/textures/samplers/buffers associated with geometry. Going to the metal on GCN, it would be trivial to pass a 32-bit index from the vertex shader to the pixel shader, then use the 32-bit index and S_BUFFER_LOAD_DWORDX16 to get constants, samplers, textures, buffers, and shaders associated with the material. Do a S_SETPC to branch to the proper shader."

It's unlikely PC's DirectX 12 will match the above optimisation path i.e. it's specific for AMD GCN. S_SETPC instructions = scalar processor in the CU.

PS; the above example shows that the embedded ARM CPU is not required.

#98 Posted by Xplode_games (516 posts) -

I'd buy it for PC