Creator of FXAA gives thoughts on Orbis and Durango specs

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="RR360DD"]>Like I keep saying, its a RUMOUR :lol: RR360DD

I know you'd love it to be true, but its a RUMOUR. Don't piss your pants just yet

Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

Only once the official specs are revealed for both PS4 & Xbox720 we'll have an idea of which performs better in terms of hardware..

Let's just ignore this sh*t since he said it will be ahead of pc's... What a joke.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]The drawcalls in the article is all about the memory allocation and amount cpu cycles is needed to send the gpu the data on the fly. Which is why with Pc's, most of the game data is stored onto memory then is processed. It has nothing to do with the gpu performance by itself. The guy in the article does not know and states maybe if Sony opened up the gpu assembly they could change the barriers for texture fetch abilities by upto 30%. Which does not Not the total performance of the gpu the efficiency and optimization methods can not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. If its design to do 1.7 TFLOP that is all it can do, it cant perform as fast as a gpu that's 2+ TFLOP. Now compared to a gpu that equal ie 1.7 vs 1.7 TFLOP you can see the coding allowing the console gpu being able to handle the same workload 10-15% better. tormentos

Lol, not with the same workloads no they cant match gpu performance, also the guy is talking aboutbarriers for texture fetch abilities which will not increase the overall gpu performance by a whole alot. . Optimization does not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. Which is why consoles use lower resolutions, 2D objects, funnel players , use god rays to hide flaws, use cell based level loading etc etc. Once the coding is efficient as best they can get it, its all a juggling act of what to keep and what not too because of the limited resources in memory and processing power aka optimization . There's a massive processing difference between 1.7 and 2.5 TFLOP (ie 7850 vs 7870).And the fact of the matter is that as long as the games are well coded like Crysis 2 a gpu with equal processing ability can match a console's "optimization" and this time around that consoles are using even more pc standardized hardware and using existing modern API's from Pc, those advantages will translate into pc too.

LOL, which one of you is this poster from the comments? This is SW material right here:

random12308:01

dude, no offense, but you're a sony biased dumbass

some smart guys about little things are really dumb about big picture things

if you really think microsoft is going to let the next PlayStation be like, 4 times as powerful as your article sort of implies, for any reason, good luck with that. it's obviously what you hope happens, but not reality.

Reply

random12308:08

oh and durango with a pre-cgn gpu? and targeting 720p? and just being a dumb dx11 pc with no low level hardware access? ahahaha you're funny.

if anything theres some rumors the durango gpu is gcn2 and orbis is only gcn (i dont actually believe these rumors, but it's still funny theyre diametrically opposed to you). what now for your precious playstation?

my guess is when all is said and done, in real games orbis might be a little more powerful, or it might not. if it is, the real world difference will be like 10%. meanwhile durango's vastly superior os features, kinect, etc will make it sell much more than orbis.

Reply

LOL, which one of you is this poster from the comments? This is SW material right here:

random12308:01

dude, no offense, but you're a sony biased dumbass

some smart guys about little things are really dumb about big picture things

if you really think microsoft is going to let the next PlayStation be like, 4 times as powerful as your article sort of implies, for any reason, good luck with that. it's obviously what you hope happens, but not reality.

Reply

random12308:08

oh and durango with a pre-cgn gpu? and targeting 720p? and just being a dumb dx11 pc with no low level hardware access? ahahaha you're funny.

if anything theres some rumors the durango gpu is gcn2 and orbis is only gcn (i dont actually believe these rumors, but it's still funny theyre diametrically opposed to you). what now for your precious playstation?

my guess is when all is said and done, in real games orbis might be a little more powerful, or it might not. if it is, the real world difference will be like 10%. meanwhile durango's vastly superior os features, kinect, etc will make it sell much more than orbis.

ReplyMyopicCanadian

[QUOTE="Tessellation"]Yay more rumors being used as facts,so it makes the leaks of Sweetvar26 also true,He got info from a guy working at AMD and said that durango is more powerful than orbis...and he ain't making BS up since he was the first to leak all the ''rumored'' specs of each console.tormentos

[QUOTE="RR360DD"]>Like I keep saying, its a RUMOUR :lol: tormentos

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="RR360DD"]>Like I keep saying, its a RUMOUR :lol: RR360DD

I know you'd love it to be true, but its a RUMOUR. Don't piss your pants just yet

Good Lord.

If Sony implements used game blocking and has a noticeably more powerful console we could be seeing ALOT more PS4 exclusives.

I expect MS to announce better specs for the 720 when they finally do make an official announcement.

I'd bet most titles attempting deferred shading will be stuck at 720p with only poor post process AA (like FXAA).killzowned24

Wait, did he just dis his own creation? How does that make sense?

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]The drawcalls in the article is all about the memory allocation and amount cpu cycles is needed to send the gpu the data on the fly. Which is why with Pc's, most of the game data is stored onto memory then is processed. It has nothing to do with the gpu performance by itself. The guy in the article does not know and states maybe if Sony opened up the gpu assembly they could change the barriers for texture fetch abilities by upto 30%. Which does not Not the total performance of the gpu the efficiency and optimization methods can not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. If its design to do 1.7 TFLOP that is all it can do, it cant perform as fast as a gpu that's 2+ TFLOP. Now compared to a gpu that equal ie 1.7 vs 1.7 TFLOP you can see the coding allowing the console gpu being able to handle the same workload 10-15% better. 04dcarraher

Lol, not with the same workloads no they cant match gpu performance, also the guy is talking aboutbarriers for texture fetch abilities which will not increase the overall gpu performance by a whole alot. . Optimization does not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. Which is why consoles use lower resolutions, 2D objects, funnel players , use god rays to hide flaws, use cell based level loading etc etc. Once the coding is efficient as best they can get it, its all a juggling act of what to keep and what not too because of the limited resources in memory and processing power aka optimization . There's a massive processing difference between 1.7 and 2.5 TFLOP (ie 7850 vs 7870).And the fact of the matter is that as long as the games are well coded like Crysis 2 a gpu with equal processing ability can match a console's "optimization" and this time around that consoles are using even more pc standardized hardware and using existing modern API's from Pc, those advantages will translate into pc too.

So lems got no games and the weakest next gen system? :lol:

That's very interesting, so It's less about raw power and more about what the developers can actually access.

Man Microsoft is horribly inefficient, Hopefully whatever linux is cooking up puts them to shame.

[QUOTE="killzowned24"]

I'd bet most titles attempting deferred shading will be stuck at 720p with only poor post process AA (like FXAA).lockjaw333

Wait, did he just dis his own creation? How does that make sense?

FFXA was never meant to be a highly accurate method of reducing aliasing, it's just a much cheaper alternative to MSAA.

Antialiasing in general leaves alot to be desired, especially when in relation to performance.

>Lol, not with the same workloads no they cant match gpu performance, also the guy is talking aboutbarriers for texture fetch abilities which will not increase the overall gpu performance by a whole alot. . Optimization does not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. Which is why consoles use lower resolutions, 2D objects, funnel players , use god rays to hide flaws, use cell based level loading etc etc. Once the coding is efficient as best they can get it, its all a juggling act of what to keep and what not too because of the limited resources in memory and processing power aka optimization . There's a massive processing difference between 1.7 and 2.5 TFLOP (ie 7850 vs 7870).And the fact of the matter is that as long as the games are well coded like Crysis 2 a gpu with equal processing ability can match a console's "optimization" and this time around that consoles are using even more pc standardized hardware and using existing modern API's from Pc, those advantages will translate into pc too.04dcarraher

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

When he says ahead of the PC he means in terms of what they can do on the back end interfacing with the hardware and getting the most out of the hardware. PCs are horribly inefficent due to their OS and their grpahic APIs.

RyviusARC

Most of the ineffiencey is on the CPU side though.

You will notice this is lousy console to PC ports.

[QUOTE="killzowned24"]

I'd bet most titles attempting deferred shading will be stuck at 720p with only poor post process AA (like FXAA).lockjaw333

Wait, did he just dis his own creation? How does that make sense?

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]>Lol, not with the same workloads no they cant match gpu performance, also the guy is talking aboutbarriers for texture fetch abilities which will not increase the overall gpu performance by a whole alot. . Optimization does not allow a set gpu perform faster then its max theoretical processing ability. Which is why consoles use lower resolutions, 2D objects, funnel players , use god rays to hide flaws, use cell based level loading etc etc. Once the coding is efficient as best they can get it, its all a juggling act of what to keep and what not too because of the limited resources in memory and processing power aka optimization . There's a massive processing difference between 1.7 and 2.5 TFLOP (ie 7850 vs 7870).And the fact of the matter is that as long as the games are well coded like Crysis 2 a gpu with equal processing ability can match a console's "optimization" and this time around that consoles are using even more pc standardized hardware and using existing modern API's from Pc, those advantages will translate into pc too.tormentos

You have no idea what your talking about. All his additions are on Pc too.

DX11 is a much more optimized API with respect to modern GPU architecture vs what DX9 is. So the difference between a next gen console game and the same game running on a PC with modern, equivalent hardware will be minimal thanks to DX11.

Now, as time goes by, say in a few years, I'm sure developers will be able to squeeze out an extra 10-15% more performance out of the hardware, but your not going to see major differences between equivalent hardware, there is no bandwidth issues nor bottlenecks, only a slight overhead which is fixed by using a slightly faster cpu and alittle more memory big whoop :roll:

So lems got no games and the weakest next gen system? :lol:

Peredith

Sounds pretty good.

PS4

If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU. Note this won't happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case.

killzowned24

It's the hidden powerz again !

Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

HalcyonScarlet

It's the hidden powerz again !Caseytappy

Why can't you ladies just wait until after the true specs are revealed , the Crow might be served raw soon and credibility down the drain forever !

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] the leaks from sweetvar26? the first guy that got the information of both consoles? and he has information since 2010? the same guy that also got information from inside AMD that the team behind durango feels it is much stronger than orbis? the same guy that all his claims and have been purged from B3yond 3d Forums and google cache? i love how you use rumors depending on your basement dwelling needs :cool: i will laugh badly when the rumors backfire on you :cool:tormentos

yet keep falling in my trap,you keep looking pathetic and like a loser fighting on the internet for the supremacy of the PS4 being more powerful...there is a huge difference between you and me,i don't use rumors or speculations as facts ;)...keep showing how butthurt i make you every time i post something :cool: how does it feel to debunk all your rumors with rumors? looks like it hurts in the ass :cool: BTW his claims came from Inside AMD and all the info has been deleted for some reason at beyond 3d n google cache...keep on crying ;)

[QUOTE="RR360DD"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] I rumor echo by all insiders and leaks.... Every single thing points that MS is cheapen out.HalcyonScarlet

I know you'd love it to be true, but its a RUMOUR. Don't piss your pants just yet

Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

Why can't you ladies just wait until after the true specs are revealed , the Crow might be served raw soon and credibility down the drain forever !

Caseytappy

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

tormentos

[QUOTE="killzowned24"]

Sounds pretty good.

PS4

If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU. Note this won't happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case.

Caseytappy

It's the hidden powerz again !

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

tormentos

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]Yeah, people do seem to be getting excited by this article.

But because it's a rumour this whole things a little redundant right now.

The guys is commenting on what he admits is rumoured specs about an obvious flaw that apparently no other expert can see but him. I don't think so.

This guys expertise owns the common forum poster, fine. This guys expertise owns the entire of MS, don't think so.

PS2 Vs Xbox, what was the most efficient development console. PS3 Vs X360, what was the most efficient development console. Yeah, I think MS knows what they're doing.

Innovazero2000

There's no need to "hit the metal" with HSA. For MS camp, refer to HSA enabled MS C++ AMP.

[QUOTE="Caseytappy"]

[QUOTE="killzowned24"]

Sounds pretty good.

PS4

If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU. Note this won't happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case.

ronvalencia

It's the hidden powerz again !

Let's just ignore this sh*t since he said it will be ahead of pc's... What a joke.

speedfog

There's reason why AMD is developing HSA for Windows e.g. HSA enabled MS C++ AMP.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Caseytappy"]

It's the hidden powerz again !

tormentos

You haven't negated the artwork subjectivity and libGCM doesn't automatically solve RSX's design issues.

"Hiting the metal" doesn't change RSX's crappy branch performance. Playing with libGCM is not much different to writing a NVIDIA G70 driver.

With AMD's "Close-To-Metal" layer, it exposes additional hardware features that DX9c doesn't use.

good read but i don't think MS will be stupid enough to release a weak ass system when they have money to release a powerful system. If they do release some outdated sh!t like Nintendo is doing then lol. Keep hearing good things about ps4, now make a controller that doesn't suck for shooters and im getting it day one.

silversix_

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"] NO and the PS3 >> the 360 graphically... I wonder why..04dcarraher

If AMD was doing CELL, AMD would be providing the low level ecosystem with a thin-layer software that handles the pumping work and design easy to use hardware e.g. games are not the only apps that needs compute performance with efficiency. Xbox 360 has ALU mode programming model i.e. treat the GPU as a very-wide vector processor mode e.g. Battlefield 3. AMD(from ATI) has more experience with developer relationships compared to IBM.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"] NO and the PS3 >> the 360 graphically... I wonder why..04dcarraher

IBM didn't do enough leg work in getting the large tool chain providers to be involved with the new processor and the integration with the GPU.

AMD's HSA is completely different from IBM's efforts with heterogeneous computing initiatives. With PS3, Sony was almost alone, with PS4 you have an armada (i.e. HSA).

For example

Qualcomm is now a HSA member. http://hsafoundation.com/hsa-foundation-announces-qualcomm-as-newest-founder-member/

AMD is using the similar method as with the creation of GDDR standards. Jumping onboard AMD is more than just a hardware selection.

Sony's PS4 is basically an AMD HSA box without Windows.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]The creator of what¿ neverheard of him which Im sure the majority of system wars wont....and I dont know if he said it or you but how can someone call they're creation poor post processing and then be taken seriously.tormentos

Not just FXAA and TXAA. Tim is from NVIDIA http://blogs.nvidia.com/tag/timothy-lottes/

That's very interesting, so It's less about raw power and more about what the developers can actually access.

Man Microsoft is horribly inefficient, Hopefully whatever linux is cooking up puts them to shame.

ReadingRainbow4

Microsoft knows about this issue hence why MS working with HSA for thier MS C++ AMP.

http://hsafoundation.com/f-a-q/

Q: Will HSA support Microsoft C++ AMP?

A: HSA will support Microsoft C++ AMP

On Windows, we may see changes beyond DirectX11.1 Level 11.1.

He posted some more in the comments.

He posted some more in the comments.killzowned24

so cows are now going to start deluding themselves again? the PS3 was not more powerful then PCs at the time and neither will the PS4rilpas

[QUOTE="rilpas"]so cows are now going to start deluding themselves again? the PS3 was not more powerful then PCs at the time and neither will the PS4avshaman

[QUOTE="avshaman"][QUOTE="rilpas"]so cows are now going to start deluding themselves again? the PS3 was not more powerful then PCs at the time and neither will the PS404dcarraher

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="avshaman"] It's not more powerful in terms of specs, but in terms of what has actually been accomplished on the PS3 it surpasses almost everything on the PC. The best PS3 games--heck, Halo 4 on the 360 too--look better than the vast majority of games on the PC. I'm not talking about things like framerate or anti-aliasing, which do make the image quality more pleasing and the response from the controls more precise. I'm talking about the core elements that comprise the visuals: things like textures, post-processing effects, shader techniques, lighting and shadows, etc. I'm not speaking out of ignorance. I own a fairly high-level gaming PC with a GTX 670, but it's simply the truth that developers leverage the performance of consoles to a much greater degree than they do with the PC.avshaman

Look better? This is subjective.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]so cows are now going to start deluding themselves again? the PS3 was not more powerful then PCs at the time and neither will the PS4avshaman

One thing for sure, he really pissed off the xbots.

Talk about uneducated, hate-filled comments.