That's just a stereotype IMO. For example, The Wii easily has the most complex and hardcore shooter of any platform. Lol what is this magical shooter? Corruption. [spoiler] Before the whole genre argument comes into play, it doesn't matter my point still remains [/spoiler]
[QUOTE="Fried_Shrimp"]It was definitly dumbed down.IronBass
It was a different type of game design. Two different things. The developers even stated that it was a spiritual successor to SS2. In the most basic way.
i'm going to predict that all the stupid hermits are going to say every single console game made of the last 10 years, and you know what its probably a good thing.
[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Fried_Shrimp"]It was definitly dumbed down.-Feath-
It was a different type of game design. Two different things. The developers even stated that it was a spiritual successor to SS2. In the most basic way.
i'm going to predict that all the stupid hermits are going to say every single console game made of the last 10 years, and you know what its probably a good thing.
F4t4lity
Here to agree that its a good thing. I enjoy experiencing challenging and difficult games, but I would not have started gaming again if it werent for accessability. I recently replayed Mario 64 and the reason Galaxy is comparitively easier is because the camera, controlls and polish is so much better. You remember 64 being difficult because it was a pain in the ass to play.
[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Fried_Shrimp"] That's just a stereotype IMO. For example, The Wii easily has the most complex and hardcore shooter of any platform.Fried_Shrimp
Lol what is this magical shooter? Corruption.
What! you joking right?
easily most Complex and Hardcore shooter?
WoW i Guess i could see someone thinking that after playing wii sports and mario kart for a year of two.
That's just a stereotype IMO. For example, The Wii easily has the most complex and hardcore shooter of any platform. Lol what is this magical shooter? Corruption.
Corruption? What? Its a great game but its not in any way the most complex shooter of any platform
this thread just underlines my utter contempt for the self appointed 'hardcore' gamer who have total forgot what gaming is about and instead have just taken to back slapping and sneering.
RainbowSix: Vegas and Ghost Recon 2 and GRAW (altough it's relative, the PC originals were very successful selling over 1mln copies with each new game, but they were selling like crap on consoles, so they gained success on consoles, but lost it on PC)
Bioshock
funny thing is...I can actually think of more cases when the rewerse happened, the game got dumbed down, often consolized and because of that failed to achieve the success it's predecessors enjoyed
World of Warcraft is definitely the biggest culprit.
I don't blame Blizzard though, MMO developers of late have been making the most rudimentary exercises into unecessarily difficult and time consuming tasks.
World of Warcraft is definitely the biggest culprit.
I don't blame Blizzard though, MMO developers of late have been making the most rudimentary exercises into unecessarily difficult and time consuming tasks.
What did WoW "dumb down"? WoW made MMOs accesible for most gamers, something that is a huge requirement for a "Massive Multiplayer" game. Its success is based on how easy it's to start on it and how complex it gets later. It's a very smart design for its genre.
funny thing is...I can actually think of more cases when the rewerse happened, the game got dumbed down, often consolized and because of that failed to achieve the success it's predecessors enjoyedAdrianWerner
Funny thing is, most of the games you listed have been extremely successful.
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]funny thing is...I can actually think of more cases when the rewerse happened, the game got dumbed down, often consolized and because of that failed to achieve the success it's predecessors enjoyedIronBass
Funny thing is, most of the games you listed have been extremely successful.how is it funny? That's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?
"Biggest culprits of games that achieved success by dumbing down the genre."
Also I can't believe all the people saying Bioshock. It's not SS3 and it never tried to be.
Filthybastrd
Nah, It did try to be SS3 when it was announced. it was supposed to be spiritual successor to SS3. Levine was carrying a huge book of SS3 design ideas and Bioshock was supposed to be where he would realize them.
it stopped being SS3 in diffrent name the moment they dropped the Nazi base theme and switched to console-centric game. From that moment it truly didn't try to be SS3 and nobody from Irrational was mentioning SS anymore
World of Warcraft is definitely the biggest culprit.
I don't blame Blizzard though, MMO developers of late have been making the most rudimentary exercises into unecessarily difficult and time consuming tasks.
What did WoW "dumb down"? WoW made MMOs accesible for most gamers, something that is a huge requirement for a "Massive Multiplayer" game. Its success is based on how easy it's to start on it and how complex it gets later. It's a very smart design for its genre. Please, WoWs end game is neither complex or even the best of its genre. most of the classes are now carbon copies of eachother, theres no need for setups, Final Fantasy 11's combat is more complex and rewarded beneath the surface (im ofc talking end game).
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]]how is it funny? That's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?
"Biggest culprits of games that achieved success by dumbing down the genre."
IronBass
It's funny because everybody loved the game you listed :lol: It's just another case of "buh buh dumbed down" to games everybody loves :lol: Seriously, get over it.
I'm not going to lie and deny reality. Those games did get dumbed down.
This doesn't make them bad games on their own (at most it makes them bad successors to originals), but just because a game was good or successful doesn't mean it didn't get dumbed down. ALl those I've listed were dumbed down. Get over it, accept and move on. And next time don't come to a thread which whole purpose seems to hurt your feelings if it bothers you this much
And next time don't come to a thread which whole purpose seems to hurt your feelings if it bothers you this muchAdrianWerner
It does not bother me nor hurt my feelings. But it's always very funny to see the typical cliches of SW :lol: The hurted PC gamers because of what Halo "did" to FPS, the SS2 fans hurted by Bioshock, the Fallout fans angry at Beth.. It's just too much fun :lol:
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]]how is it funny? That's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?
"Biggest culprits of games that achieved success by dumbing down the genre."
IronBass
It's funny because everybody loved the game you listed :lol: It's just another case of "buh buh dumbed down" to games everybody loves :lol: Seriously, get over it.
Yes because making fun of other people's opinions is funny right:?:
Maybe you should stick to discussing the thread and I can say that those games WERE dumbed down from their predecessor especially Fallout.
World of Warcraft is definitely the biggest culprit.
I don't blame Blizzard though, MMO developers of late have been making the most rudimentary exercises into unecessarily difficult and time consuming tasks.
What did WoW "dumb down"? WoW made MMOs accesible for most gamers, something that is a huge requirement for a "Massive Multiplayer" game. Its success is based on how easy it's to start on it and how complex it gets later. It's a very smart design for its genre. Please, WoWs end game is neither complex or even the best of its genre. most of the classes are now carbon copies of eachother, theres no need for setups, Final Fantasy 11's combat is more complex and rewarded beneath the surface (im ofc talking end game). FFXI hardest part ist he time sink, this isn't defending WoW but seriously FFXI? The vast majority of MMOs main difficulty is time needed.. This includes FFXI, or even old juggernauts like EQ.. I can only think of one game I have read about that actualy seems to be more skill based and thats Eve Online though I have never played it... Though obviously it has to go to Beth and their Oblivion, one of the largest over-rated PoS games of all time imo.
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]And next time don't come to a thread which whole purpose seems to hurt your feelings if it bothers you this muchIronBass
It does not bother me nor hurt my feelings. But it's always very funny to see the typical cliches of SW :lol: The hurted PC gamers because of what Halo "did" to FPS, the SS2 fans hurted by Bioshock, the Fallout fans angry at Beth.. It's just too much fun :lol:
you seem very insecure when it comes to your gaming preferences. But I guess ignoring reality is one way to cope with that.
I wish the simple reality would make be laugh, I could laugh at sun setting at each dawn, laugh at gravity;s existence etc.
[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]And next time don't come to a thread which whole purpose seems to hurt your feelings if it bothers you this muchAdrianWerner
It does not bother me nor hurt my feelings. But it's always very funny to see the typical cliches of SW :lol: The hurted PC gamers because of what Halo "did" to FPS, the SS2 fans hurted by Bioshock, the Fallout fans angry at Beth.. It's just too much fun :lol:
you seem very insecure when it comes to your gaming preferences. But I guess ignoring reality is one way to cope with that.
I wish the simple reality would make be laugh, I could laugh at sun setting at each dawn, laugh at gravity;s existence etc.
There's several things that are annoying about what's going on in this thread. The first is that no one has bothered to come up with an operational definition of "dumbed down". I suppose the op should have done that. The second is that no one feels that it's necessary to explain why they feel as though a game has been dumbed down. There's obviously going to be some contention - you need to defend your position.
This thread will become a "let's hate popular games" thread.IronBass
I think it already has. So let me continue with that: Final Fantasy. All of them. Heck, JRPGs in general. They're just "dumbed down" versions of WRPGs. They took the role-playing out of RPGs. There is no real character interaction; you have no influence over the outcome of the story. Even the stats are simplified versions of WRPGs' stats. I think the Final Fantasy series is probably the most egregious example of the dumbing down of a genre. Play KOTOR or Fallout 2 or Neverwinter Nights and then play any JRPG and tell me which is the deeper, more true RPG experience. That being said, I still love a good JRPG (dumbing down isn't always a bad thing).
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