Democrats passing all kinds of great stuff! Meanwhile...

@dabear: Always easy to spot those who live an an alternate reality from the rest of us. They avoid the facts.

Money is continuously taxed at many time frames. If you truly believe that money can and SHOULD only be taxed once, you have a terrible idea on how money or taxation works.

Here we go again - anyone who disagrees with you lefty zealots get ganged up on. All the usual suspects have jointed the thread; all replying to my comments. How typical and weak.

I'll tell you what - here's what we'll do, and this goes for you too, @tjandmia - If the democrats hold on to both houses of Congress this November, I will never post in this forum again - you will be free to spread your zealotry at your own convenience. If not, if the red wave does happen, you must leave this forum.

Deal?

@dabear: ill go in on this bet

Go ahead then, explain to me how we tax a dollar 'once' then.

Deal

I'm on your side tho lol, red wave this November.

I'm willing to leave these forums if the the house and senate stays blue.

I have an answer - but I am not going to give it to you. I am tired of you and your ilk targeting and ganging up on everyone who doesn't toe the DNC line.

Accept my challenge or meet silence from here on out.

Hahahaha sure you do.😂😂😂😂

@dabear said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@dabear said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@dabear: Actually the majority of Americans don't support the GOP.

First off - we'll see what happens in November to see which party the public supports.

Second, I didn't say anything about anyone supporting the GOP, I said "most of the country does not agree with the Biden agenda."

That's false. Most of the policies he proposed are popular with Americans, including Republicans.

When it comes to specific provisions in the law, Americans are most supportive of allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies (71%), incentives to lower the cost of all forms of renewable energy (65%), extending health insurance subsidies for middle-income Americans getting insurance through the Affordable Care Act (64%), and making it more difficult for investors to take advantage of capital gains loopholes in the tax code (62%).

I have an answer - but I am not going to give it to you. I am tired of you and your ilk targeting and ganging up on everyone who doesn't toe the DNC line.

Accept my challenge or meet silence from here on out.

I apologize. My bad.

You want to leave the forum be my guest. Also I will most welcome you not trolling my posts so win win.

Cowardice. How typical. How predictable. At least I can now just reply with this every time you comment on my posts.

You admit to trolling. I don't play childish forum bet games. You do that on your own time. I will say the Democrats are predicted to hold the House and pick up Senate seats. And you did say you'd leave if they do. So there's that to look forward to............

@dabear: You're not a person of your word. You're still stalking me..........

LOL challenge? I asked you a simple question and your response is 'nuh uh, it's secret quit picking on me!!!!'.

Talk about childish.

It seems obvious to me that he doesn't grasp the topic in the first place.

The tax is paid by the company buying back their own shares, not by the shareholder. Therefore, his analog to an estate tax seems an odd choice.

Furthermore, from a corporate perspective stock buybacks have become more popular because they are more cash effective vs dividends in practice, at lower taxation overall .

They also totally deserve to be questioned/criticized as management paying itself more money. I should know, given that I made millions off stock options that definitely benefited, in part, from stock buybacks.

He likely also doesn't know that buyback taxation is supported by many Republicans and was discussed under Trump, but not implemented.

This is a good move, although the taxation level is too low to change corporate behavior. Personally, I think any other use of excess corporate cash is better over the long term than stock buybacks. I expect the rate to be increased over time regardless of which party is in power.

Actually, sciolist, I know exactly what I am talking about. The 1% is a drop in the bucket. However, this is just a "gateway" tax percentage, which will probably go up later. As the government keeps raising taxes on companies, they will just move their money and assets elsewhere.

To quote Jared Dillian:

When Rubio proposed his buyback tax, I said that instead of taxing buybacks, the better thing to do would be to eliminate taxes on dividends, putting buybacks and dividends on an equal tax footing.

@dabear: What? Leave the forum? Go away.

Here's one from the daily mail, citing a non-partisan report.

A Republican wanted to introduce an amendment to restrict the newly weaponized IRS from targeting those making under 400K. Every single Democratic senator voted it down.

@vl4d_l3nin: LOL Daily Mail, seriously.

yes. you knew it would happen one day!

Here. Official records from the congressional finance committee

Now, there are the facts right there. It's in the congressional record that every Democratic senator voted down a provision that would've prevented tens of thousands of IRS agents from going after people earning less than 400K. Are the libs of this board going to accept that as the fact that it is? Probably not.

Everyone that meets the criteria should pay taxes. The whole $400K thing...whatever. A concession to get the bill passed.

Taxes are how we pay to get things done in this country together that we can't do alone. Everyone that is able should chip in. You won't like it all, and bureaucracy and corruption is a real problem, but it's better than the alternative.

I try to maintain a moderate stance on the more tangible, non-social issues ("policy", in other words). Taxes are a necessary evil, if you want to be a cynic about it (I Just prefer to call them necessary).

At least now we will hopefully collect them from the people that have benefit the most from our society and have contributed the least to it.

My long term hope is that we will see a resurgence in small-business owners, less corporate power. Would rather have 1000 companies created 40,000 jobs than two companies making 40,000 jobs.

That's not what you're saying it is. You didn't link to the Congressional Record. Anyway, facts are not on your side.

https://www.vox.com/2022/8/16/23302798/irs-audit-inflation-reduction-act

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmayo/2022/08/12/will-the-inflation-reduction-act-increase-irs-tax-audits/?sh=6a3b7e4b513d

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-irs-bill/fact-check-social-media-posts-miss-key-context-on-inflation-reduction-acts-provision-for-thousands-of-new-irs-agents-idUSL1N2ZT27M

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/14/1117317757/irs-tax-evaders-dodgers-inflation-reduction-act-enforcement

By the way, the Daily Mail is a tabloid.

Then why use an estate tax analogy and cite double taxation, when stock buybacks are the exact opposite? Which is ironic as now say you want to eliminate dividend taxation to put them on par with stock buybacks.

So what you really are complaning about is not double taxation, but taxation at all. Which is fine, but insane.

Also, the logical extreme of your argument on corporate taxation is a race to the bottom. Which is what has already been happening for decades as different tax jurisdictions artificially compete for large multinational businesses. This 'competition' is what erodes the corporate tax base for all the participating countries and is a major reason why so many major companies pay so little tax worldwide. Indeed, the single best thing Biden has done is get the OECD countries to agree to moving to a15% minimum corporate tax.

In short, corporate taxation should not be the equivalent to a natural comparative advantage as the only possible outcome of that is excessive concentration of wealth and transference of tax burden to individuals.

Also, I laughed at your socialist remark. It is the comeback of the weak minded. I assure you my capitalist credentials far exceed yours, but I also understand the role of govt and the basis of society.

Your tax position is analogous to the overall economic fantasy espoused by Nozick in Anarchy, State and Utopia. An untenable society.

The media just came out and said the name of the bill was a marketing ploy and the bill will not lower inflation. One of the major green items was a $7,000 rebate for EV's on the day Biden signed the bill Ford and GM raised the price of their EV's $6,000. Also there is a tax on natural gas in this bill which means the cost of heating your home and cooking your meals will go up in addition to the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity from renewable electricity from wind mills will go up as they use natural gas. This bill does nothing for the American people even the drug price freeze doesn't go in effect until 2026. The bill does help Bill Gates though and hi several new start up companies.

Bingo.

The corporation with a number of corporate lawyers and accountants will not be easy prey for the irs but the little guy who doesn't have such luxury? The IRS says it won't be targeting the middle class so it must be true, right?

Speaking of taxes, regardless of how anyone feels about higher corporate taxes, the people buying the services and goods will pay for it.

if tax avoision [ "it's a crime, look it up!" ] is possible simply because the IRS doesn't have the resources to pursue, that's pretty stupid system.

should tax cheats, regardless of income, be pursued by the IRS?

simple yes or no will suffice.

Indeed, despite the fact that they're lying saying the IRS agents will be targeting middle class people.

Your entire argument is hinging on a fabrication that these IRS employees will be targeting middle and low income people. Put up or shut up. And honestly, if the task is to bring in the MOST revenue possible, why would they target middle class people? High income earners are much more lucrative. Your assertions don't even pass a simple sniff test.

@HoolaHoopMan: because middle class people can't afford to put up a fight legally. Most middle class people, if the IRS says you owe an extra 1-3 grand... Aren't going to take them to court over it. It's easier for them just to pay it rather than fight it, even if it is incorrect, it's easier to just eat it.

Same reason people tend to not challenge the state over parking tickets. Cop says you were parked over an hour, you say it was 40 minutes. Easier just to pay it.

Link to source.

@sargentd: Why would they need to put up a fight legally if they didn't evade taxes? Taxes aren't a 'he said, she said', event. There are literal receipts.

It's also ignoring that LOWERING your income is a part of tax evasion. What is to stop someone from claiming they only make 300k, thus flying under the enforcement range, and engage is more tax evasion?

Congrats, you've just encouraged people to lower their taxable income below an arbitrary threshold for review.

That's an argument in favor of the IRS agents not targeting the poor and middle class. Most of that income is reported to the IRS on W2 and similar forms by third parties. Identifying under-reporting on those requires next to no resources, and they're the targets that remain when resources are squeezed. The high value ones that require lengthy audits and court cases are the ones that have to be dropped as budgets and personnel become constrained.

What do you expect from a person who comes to a gaming forum to exclusively post in the politics section? That's like being the most competitive person at the company softball game. You blow your knee out and everybody laughs at you.

This is abuse. They should be ashamed.

Look at him... Doesn't even know where he is.

@playmynutz: All that means is your costs on all products has just gone up. On top of inflation, higher costs of food, energy, and taxes for everyone, the American people are getting poorer and poorer. But Bezos will be just fine I am sure. And all the elite in DC. Not you though.

@playmynutz: I think you're talking about an excess profits tax. That has flown in the past.

Great couple of weeks for Joe Biden. He's signing impactful legislation, all the while his opposition party is scrambling to defend a two-bit con man and twisting themselves into knots. It also helps that generic ballot polls for 2022 are showing a strong retention of the Senate by Dems too. No doubt they have to jump back onto attacks like this. They don't have anything substantiative to report on.

Would you mind explaining that? I'd google it but I like hearing it from other people lol

Just based on the name of it, sounds like a really great idea. We don't need more billionaires and companies should not get too big to fail. We should be OK if Amazon went out of business tomorrow.

An excess profits tax is a tax levied on profits above what is considered a typical return. As is implied, it's generally a short-lived tax to pull in above-normal returns due to a short lived condition (such as wartime scarcity or pandemic produced supply chain issues).

The tax is typically 0% on any profits at or below a certain threshold, and then quite high above that threshold. For example, if historic returns in an industry are 10%, legislators may set the threshold at 15% and then tax anything above that at 90% for the intended duration of the tax.