Wow, really Bioware?! (Massive SWTOR spoiler)

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

FelipeInside

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

[QUOTE="Steameffekt"]

I don't plan on playing republic, so.... :P

lordreaven

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

Maroxad

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

PC360Wii

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

No, I never said I had a english degree. I did say I enjoy writing however, but I do not have an english degree.

Still, you dont need a english degree to be better than Drew. His level of writing is below amateurish these days.

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

Maroxad

No, I never said I had a english degree. I did say I enjoy writing however, but I do not have an english degree.

Still, you dont need a english degree to be better than Drew. His level of writing is below amateurish these days.

Depends, Im not into books, I mean I read ALOT due to research and well just general internet usage. but Im not into fictional books in the slightest, yet I havnt ever found a Bioware RPG to be interesting. sure none of it is ground breaking.PC360Wii

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Depends, Im not into books, I mean I read ALOT due to research and well just general internet usage. but Im not into fictional books in the slightest, yet I havnt ever found a Bioware RPG to be interesting. sure none of it is ground breaking.skrat_01

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

Maroxad

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Depends, Im not into books, I mean I read ALOT due to research and well just general internet usage. but Im not into fictional books in the slightest, yet I havnt ever found a Bioware RPG to be interesting. sure none of it is ground breaking.PC360Wii

Then pick up a Matthew Reilly book.

Not much character development, just pure action.

It's the equivalent of seeing a Michael Bay film.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

FelipeInside

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

Good and acceptabe stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Amnesia, Bioshock, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

Maroxad

Good stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Braid, Bioshock, Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games, Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Still can't believe people say KOTOR was So-So and Mass Effect was crap, uncreative and characters boring. Maybe you could write a better sci-fi story than Star Wars and Mass Effect, not to mention also execute it in a gaming environment. Let me ask this from another angle, is there ANY game that you find the story ACCEPTABLE? And I mean ACTION games.... FelipeInside

Good stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Braid, Bioshock, Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games, Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

Yeah, I liked the story in Legacy of Kain. And it is true, I like my stories to be more personal and deeper. Others prefer more epic stories. We are all different. However, as long as I enjoy the story, lack of depth be damned.

There is also Amnesia, Cryostatis and Little King's Story if you want more modern games in the list. Though action games tend to be much weaker storywise than RPGs and adventure games, so my list of good game stories would have been much bigger otherwise.

Best sci-fi story in gaming is homeworld followed by Sid Meier's Alpha centauri.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Good stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Braid, Bioshock, Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games, Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

Maroxad

Yeah, I liked the story in Legacy of Kain. And it is true, I like my stories to be more personal and deeper. Others prefer more epic stories. We are all different. However, as long as I enjoy the story, depth be damned.

There is also Amnesia, Cryostatis and Little King's Story if you want more modern games in the list. Though action games tend to be much weaker storywise than RPGs and adventure games, so my list of good game stories would have been much bigger otherwise.

Best sci-fi story in gaming is homeworld followed by Sid Meier's Alpha centauri.

U said it urself, action games rarely have an awesome story as an RPG or Adventure.

MMO is even harder to make a good story, and so far (with 6 hrs of play myself) ToR has got me hooked.

Wether or not they can keep it up is yet to be seen.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What I expected from the plot was something a bit more organized than that. Star Wars in general doesnt exactly have good plots (characters are easily their strongest point). But this is taking it too far. Who knows, maybe the characters will be good but going by Bioware history, they will mostly just be the typical bland 1-2 dimentional characters we see in pretty much every Bioware game.

KOTOR 1 was so-so. The writing was bad, the plot was uncreative, the characters were realy hit and miss and the combat was pretty weak. It had a strong Star Warsy atmosphere, but that alone was not enough to carry all the game's faults.

Throne of Cheese had several problems. The story was completely forgettable, the character development was pretty much non-existant, the ruleset was not balanced for such high levels, nor was it balanced for RTWP.

Mass Effect was just a bad game. Storywise, the plot is lackluster, the setting is uncreative, of the characters, 2 were downright annoying, 1 was as bland as it could get (got fixed in the sequel however), another 1 was a mary sue and 1 is an idiot. Only Wrex was was decent in the cast. Story aside the gameplay wasnt special either, in fact there was not a single good thing about it. The dialogue is completely ruined thanks to the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing, the exploration was ruined by the copy pasta the side quests were and the linear nature of the main quests, the vehicle sections were ruined by bad controls and absolutely no feel, oh and the foot combat was horribe thanks to the uninteresting spells to use, terrible gunplay and hp bloated enemies. With the exception of Wrex and the main theme, I could not find a single redeeming quality about Mass Effect.

Maroxad

Good and acceptabe stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Amnesia, Bioshock, Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Still can't believe people say KOTOR was So-So and Mass Effect was crap, uncreative and characters boring. Maybe you could write a better sci-fi story than Star Wars and Mass Effect, not to mention also execute it in a gaming environment. Let me ask this from another angle, is there ANY game that you find the story ACCEPTABLE? And I mean ACTION games.... ZombiezLovePie

Good and acceptabe stories include Deus Ex, Witcher 2, System Shock 2, Amnesia, Bioshock, Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, Morrowind, and for non-PC games Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker.

Shadow of the Colossus uses a certain technique for storytelling which is relatively uncommon. Basicly, these games use level design and subtle hints either through game mechanics, dialogue or item descriptions to tell the story in a very indirect way. As a result from this, the plot tends to suffer, and no one is ever 100% about the story, but the games themselves can have strong setting and provoke an atmosphere rarely seen in gaming, storytelling in this matter is also much harder to do. But ultimately, I wish that this is the kind of storytelling mmos would use, the more indirect and subtle form of storytelling. Why do I wish mmos would use this form of storytelling as opposed to the traditional? Because this kind of storytelling fits the whole open ended gameplay of an mmo like a glove, this kind of storytelling would in no way detract from the gameplay and the game play woud in no way detract from the storytelling.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/924364-shadow-of-the-colossus-2005/faqs/41817

I like how SWToR ends up being the first MMO to try telling a story most players will somewhat follow outside text boxes, not to mention 1600hrs worth, and everyone ****s on it like it's supposed to be up to the standards of the witcher and stuff. If you can find me a dev team that has enough time, resources, and money to make a 1600hr online game with a story as good as you want, I'll give you a gold medal, a cookie, and a pat on the back :)

I like how SWToR ends up being the first MMO to try telling a story most players will somewhat follow outside text boxes, not to mention 1600hrs worth, and everyone ****s on it like it's supposed to be up to the standards of the witcher and stuff. If you can find me a dev team that has enough time, resources, and money to make a 1600hr online game with a story as good as you want, I'll give you a gold medal, a cookie, and a pat on the back :)

wis3boi

To be honest, I highly doubt the game will be 1600 hours long even if you play through all classes' stories. Based on the following factors

• The levels some reached during the beta (some managed to get up to or close to 30 in just a weekend).
• Chances are, once people have gotten their main to 50, levelling alts will go much faster, because they know what to do, where to go and know how to play better. They will also spend less time enjoying the sights and just rush to the cap or to continue the story.
• The high level character may very well end up buying their low level alts better equipment making levelling go faster.

I would say 500-600 hours is a much more realistic time.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I like how SWToR ends up being the first MMO to try telling a story most players will somewhat follow outside text boxes, not to mention 1600hrs worth, and everyone ****s on it like it's supposed to be up to the standards of the witcher and stuff. If you can find me a dev team that has enough time, resources, and money to make a 1600hr online game with a story as good as you want, I'll give you a gold medal, a cookie, and a pat on the back :)

Maroxad

To be honest, I highly doubt the game will be 1600 hours long even if you play through all classes' stories. Based on the following factors

• The levels some reached during the beta (some managed to get up to or close to 30 in just a weekend).
• Chances are, once people have gotten their main to 50, levelling alts will go much faster, because they know what to do, where to go and know how to play better. They will also spend less time enjoying the sights and just rush to the cap or to continue the story.
• The high level character may very well end up buying their low level alts better equipment making levelling go faster.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I like how SWToR ends up being the first MMO to try telling a story most players will somewhat follow outside text boxes, not to mention 1600hrs worth, and everyone ****s on it like it's supposed to be up to the standards of the witcher and stuff. If you can find me a dev team that has enough time, resources, and money to make a 1600hr online game with a story as good as you want, I'll give you a gold medal, a cookie, and a pat on the back :)

Maroxad

To be honest, I highly doubt the game will be 1600 hours long even if you play through all classes' stories. Based on the following factors

• The levels some reached during the beta (some managed to get up to or close to 30 in just a weekend).
• Chances are, once people have gotten their main to 50, levelling alts will go much faster, because they know what to do, where to go and know how to play better. They will also spend less time enjoying the sights and just rush to the cap or to continue the story.
• The high level character may very well end up buying their low level alts better equipment making levelling go faster.

I would say 500-600 hours is a much more realistic time.

For some reason I think leveling was faster in beta than it will be in final product, so players (in a weekend) could test higher dungeons, other planets etc.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Depends, Im not into books, I mean I read ALOT due to research and well just general internet usage. but Im not into fictional books in the slightest, yet I havnt ever found a Bioware RPG to be interesting. sure none of it is ground breaking.PC360Wii

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]

[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Should really pickup a few good books, is damn refreshing compared to the tired and true tropes of video games and film. From Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Roadside Picnic or the Forever War and so, so much more in terms of sci fi - there's so much great stuff to indulge in.FelipeInside

Then pick up a Matthew Reilly book.

Not much character development, just pure action.

It's the equivalent of seeing a Michael Bay film.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I like how SWToR ends up being the first MMO to try telling a story most players will somewhat follow outside text boxes, not to mention 1600hrs worth, and everyone ****s on it like it's supposed to be up to the standards of the witcher and stuff. If you can find me a dev team that has enough time, resources, and money to make a 1600hr online game with a story as good as you want, I'll give you a gold medal, a cookie, and a pat on the back :)

wis3boi

To be honest, I highly doubt the game will be 1600 hours long even if you play through all classes' stories. Based on the following factors

• The levels some reached during the beta (some managed to get up to or close to 30 in just a weekend).
• Chances are, once people have gotten their main to 50, levelling alts will go much faster, because they know what to do, where to go and know how to play better. They will also spend less time enjoying the sights and just rush to the cap or to continue the story.
• The high level character may very well end up buying their low level alts better equipment making levelling go faster.

Indeed it is. SWTOR will have a lot of content, that is for certain. I just feel the 1600 hours is just a wee bit exaggerated,

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

FelipeInside

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

Felipe, you should know better by now to even acknowledge, let alone quote or respond to, Wildflower by now :P

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] Really? Now because of DA2 bioware is trash? Sure buddy......... and I dont care what bs you come up with ME2 was a great game, so the only thing you have on them is da2, in no way does that make them trash.

mrbojangles25

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

Felipe, you should know better by now to even acknowledge, let alone quote or respond to, Wildflower by now :P

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"] Felipe, you should know better by now to even acknowledge, let alone quote or respond to, Wildflower by now :P

FelipeInside

Well it certainly can't be good taste as both of you seem to have abandoned that particular "thing" long ago. :o

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"] Felipe, you should know better by now to even acknowledge, let alone quote or respond to, Wildflower by now :P

-wildflower-

Well it certainly can't be good taste as both of you seem to have abandoned that particular "thing" long ago. :o